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Can the oppressed be racist to the oppressors?

Pokemon Fan

Knuckle Trainer
To my knowledge the definition of racism is not at all dependent on how powerful/privileged the racist is compared to the race they are racist against, all that's really required to count as racism is to believe negative things about a person based purely on the race that they are. It doesn't even require any actions or harm be administered, it's purely about the beliefs the racist has toward someone. To believe that only oppressors can be racist would require a different definition of racism. The difference is that whoever is of a race that is more powerful in a given society is going to be able to more effectively turn racist beliefs into racist actions/harm as it will be harder/less acceptable to stop them. Even that scenario is simplifying things too much though.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
To my knowledge the definition of racism is not at all dependent on how powerful/privileged the racist is compared to the race they are racist against, all that's really required to count as racism is to believe negative things about a person based purely on the race that they are. It doesn't even require any actions or harm be administered, it's purely about the beliefs the racist has toward someone. To believe that only oppressors can be racist would require a different definition of racism. The difference is that whoever is of a race that is more powerful in a given society is going to be able to more effectively turn racist beliefs into racist actions/harm as it will be harder/less acceptable to stop them. Even that scenario is simplifying things too much though.
Dismissing the systemic model is being way too literal. Power+prejudice=racism.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious

MackBlasta

Member
Racism is alive and well in minority communities. Just because we're conditioned to think of racism from minority people (particularly blacks) as less serious than racism from white people doesn't make it any less wrong.
 

Lykouros

Sandslash fan
There is nothing to understand. You can examine the facts of the situations and possible key factors leading to the incidents but painting it as "he went through X so that's why this happens". Examining a persons actions and past can be a good way to examine their overall psych but to "understand where a person comes from" is basically having empathy for them. Call it what is. It's almost how people try to excuse school shooters as "oh well they were bullied and that's why they went on a rampage". You can acknowledge the individual was bullied without trying to use that as a scapegoat as to why the events occurred. I'm a very understanding person but let's not pretend "understanding is key" when in reality it's just acknowledging these people made terrible choices by their own will. Understanding Hitler and Jackson isn't going to stop future events; understanding why we shouldn't allow these terrible people in power is important. What good is understanding Jackson if he still caused a genocide?
But examining these things is important. I am a teacher and your example of the school shooter is exactly what we take into account. It isn't meant to excuse the person's actions, it's meant to analyze them so we can prevent people from making those awful, destructive choices in the future.

If we just kicked out any student who was racist or a bully or purposefully sabotaging other students, without at all considering what is causing that behavior and using that information to address and hopefully correct that behavior, we would be failing those students completely. Furthermore, your line of thinking leads down dangerous paths. Should we also disregard the experiences of criminals and cancel our current support systems that aim to prevent crime in the first place? I can't imagine that is what you mean. Now, if you're simply trying to say we shouldn't excuse the behavior, eg. pretend nothing is wrong because it's not their fault, I agree. But if you're saying we shouldn't even consider that these terrible people were once children whose life experiences shaped them (extremely predictably, sadly) and use that to help future generations to the best of our ability with the information we have, then I must disagree.
 

SubtleVVeirdoh

Unova Enthusiast
Auraninja basically said how I felt. However:

by literal definition, yes they can. I believe your “everyday individuals” regardless of race, creed, color can be racist to one another.

However, how can the entirety of the oppressed be racist to the oppressor? Can slaves really be racist towards slavers who are constantly throwing injustices at said slaves?

“A man cannot hate the whip with which he is being flogged but then be expected to love the person doing the flogging. When such a black man, lying helpless bleeding on the ground expresses hate for the white person wielding the whip, it is only reasonable.”

I don’t think the oppressed as a whole can be racist to the oppressor tbh. I’ve seen firsthand how Native Americans and Native Australians react to the whites in their respective country. STILL facing wild injustices on their NATIVE land. I don’t believe these groups to be racist when they proclaim their hate or distain, in this case, for the white man, I believe it’s the oppressed tired of their oppressor‘s boot on their throat.
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
Stop trivializing racism. Anyone can be racist.

I'd like to point out the glaring irony that the only time anyone champions the phrase "Anyone can be racist" is to combat the vocalized plight of those who are historically victims of racism. In fact, it can only be used to combat those who are historically victims of racism, for it is not intended to be said in their favor nor for their benefit. Thus, the statement itself is, by design, racist.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
I'd like to point out the glaring irony that the only time anyone champions the phrase "Anyone can be racist" is to combat the vocalized plight of those who are historically victims of racism. In fact, it can only be used to combat those who are historically victims of racism, for it is not intended to be said in their favor nor for their benefit. Thus, the statement itself is, by design, racist.
I just spent the last week arguing on Twitter with right wing Japanese nationalists who called the Nanjing Massacre a hoax created by the Communist Chinese Party. I'm sure you'd say that Nanjing Massacre deniers can only be racist if they're white.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
I just spent the last week arguing on Twitter with right wing Japanese nationalists who called the Nanjing Massacre a hoax created by the Communist Chinese Party. I'm sure you'd say that Nanjing Massacre deniers can only be racist if they're white.
Racism is not limited to white people, but always is in the form of the oppressed suffering at the hands of the oppressor.

During WWII, the Imperial Japanese Army were the systemic oppressors to the people of China.

Conspiracy theorists & the jingoistic warhawks who exploit them pushing Nanjing as a hoax is more a problem with society in general than an active system of oppressing modern Chinese people nowadays, so the model still stands.

A more active and relevant model of non-white systemic racism is what the CCP does to Uygurs and any info about them.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
Racism is not limited to white people, but always is in the form of the oppressed suffering at the hands of the oppressor.

During WWII, the Imperial Japanese Army were the systemic oppressors to the people of China.

Conspiracy theorists & the jingoistic warhawks who exploit them pushing Nanjing as a hoax is more a problem with society in general than an active system of oppressing modern Chinese people nowadays, so the model still stands.

A more active and relevant model of non-white systemic racism is what the CCP does to Uygurs and any info about them.
Isn't the whole point of denying the Nanjing Massacre to make China out to be liars?
 

PrinceOfFacade

Ghost-Type Master
I just spent the last week arguing on Twitter with right wing Japanese nationalists who called the Nanjing Massacre a hoax created by the Communist Chinese Party. I'm sure you'd say that Nanjing Massacre deniers can only be racist if they're white.

It is quite clear you have no actual interest in learning. You are willfully stuck in your convictions. I see no more reason to waste time on you with this.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
Isn't the whole point of denying the Nanjing Massacre to make China out to be liars?
Yes.

But it isn't systemically oppressive.

Info suppression isn't always systemic racism
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
It is quite clear you have no actual interest in learning. You are willfully stuck in your convictions. I see no more reason to waste time on you with this.
Great response. You truly added value to this conversation.
Yes.

But it isn't systemically oppressive.

Info suppression isn't always systemic racism
My parents are survivors of a genocide. If someone denied that genocide, I'd feel pretty bad.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
Great response. You truly added value to this conversation.

My parents are survivors of a genocide. If someone denied that genocide, I'd feel pretty bad.
Let me clarify:Are Chinese people of today PRIMARILY suffering as a result of Japanese denial of the massacre?

If the MODERN JAPANESE deniers are not the oppressor of MODERN China, then it's info suppression outside of ACTIVE oppression system.

China is CURRENTLY one of the major SYSTEMIC oppressors, along with The US, UK, Saudi Arabia and Russia.

But they are NOT systemically oppressing the Chinese RIGHT NOW.

Japan is NOT the victim, but isn't part of the system.

Thus, systemic racism as a model holds.
 

Sadib

Time Lord Victorious
Let me clarify:Are Chinese people of today PRIMARILY suffering as a result of Japanese denial of the massacre?

If the MODERN JAPANESE deniers are not the oppressor of MODERN China, then it's info suppression outside of ACTIVE oppression system.

China is CURRENTLY one of the major SYSTEMIC oppressors, along with The US, UK, Saudi Arabia and Russia.

But they are NOT systemically oppressing the Chinese RIGHT NOW.

Japan is NOT the victim, but isn't part of the system.

Thus, systemic racism as a model holds.
I'm just saying it's racism, and you're asking a bunch of silly questions to say it's not systemic racism.
 

Gamzee Makara

Flirtin' With Disaster
I'm just saying it's racism, and you're asking a bunch of silly questions to say it's not systemic racism.
No ****:Racism isn't always systemic.

But systemic racism is the bigger issue that the thread is challenging.
 
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