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Capital Punishment

M

Maedar

Banned
Lutz, I want to show you a few links if I may:

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/legalclinic/wrongfulconvictions/exonerations/wi/audrey-edmunds.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kirk-noble-bloodsworth/overturned_b_59325.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/michael-blair-texas-rape-compensation_n_2123212.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/28/damon-thibodeaux-death-row_n_1924776.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/john-edward-smith-exonerated_n_1910026.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/lynn-dejac-peters_n_2122595.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...national-anthem-tampa-bay-rays_n_1683772.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/03/texas-man-imprisoned-for-_0_n_992681.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/26/doug-prade-ohio-prisioner-dna-margo-prade_n_1831151.html


These are only cases where horrible miscarriages of justice were avoided (something you previously said was rare). Quite a few exonerations happen posthumously. Now you read these stories, and think of what MIGHT have happened to these wrongfully convicted people.
 
B

BigLutz

Banned
Maedar said:
Lutz, I want to show you a few links if I may:

http://www.law.northwestern.edu/legalclinic/wrongfulconvictions/exonerations/wi/audrey-edmunds.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kirk-noble-bloodsworth/overturned_b_59325.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/michael-blair-texas-rape-compensation_n_2123212.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/28/damon-thibodeaux-death-row_n_1924776.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/24/john-edward-smith-exonerated_n_1910026.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/13/lynn-dejac-peters_n_2122595.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...national-anthem-tampa-bay-rays_n_1683772.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/10/03/texas-man-imprisoned-for-_0_n_992681.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/26/doug-prade-ohio-prisioner-dna-margo-prade_n_1831151.html


These are only cases where horrible miscarriages of justice were avoided (something you previously said was rare). Quite a few exonerations happen posthumously. Now you read these stories, and think of what MIGHT have happened to these wrongfully convicted people.
Click to expand...

Notice most of those were overturned on DNA testing, something not available before, but available now, thus making a person's guilt even more certain.
 
N

Nightmareisalive

Well-Known Member
BigLutz said:
Notice most of those were overturned on DNA testing, something not available before, but available now, thus making a person's guilt even more certain.
Click to expand...

Thing is though there have been cases where the evidence scene has been tampered with or some other sort of events were DNA evidence has either been very hard to gather (which can actually come to light years after the case was finished) or actually don't give the full picture. It is very easy in cases like these where they are looking for a criminal they use whatever DNA evidence they find whatever or not it actually does give clear evidence against them or not.
 
M

Maedar

Banned
BigLutz said:
Notice most of those were overturned on DNA testing, something not available before, but available now, thus making a person's guilt even more certain.
Click to expand...

Funny. Remember the JonBenét Ramsey case? DNA evidence cleared her parents, but there are still idiots siding with the sleazy tabloids and accusing them of the crime. Which is odd, because, as you say, these same people usually consider DNA evidence sacred documents when they prove someone DID do it.

By the way, want an example of using executions to rule by fear? Here's a news story I found about how the world's current "expert" on it shows you how it's done:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...fficial-executed-with-a-mortar_n_2015515.html

So, if you want the folks in OUR country to start following THIS lunatic's example, then by all means...
 
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B

BigLutz

Banned
Nightmareisalive said:
Thing is though there have been cases where the evidence scene has been tampered with or some other sort of events were DNA evidence has either been very hard to gather (which can actually come to light years after the case was finished) or actually don't give the full picture. It is very easy in cases like these where they are looking for a criminal they use whatever DNA evidence they find whatever or not it actually does give clear evidence against them or not.
Click to expand...

Usually in rape cases, evidence is pretty easy to find, its under the fingernails, and in the...well sexual areas.

Maedar said:
By the way, want an example of using executions to rule by fear? Here's a news story I found about how the world's current "expert" on it shows you how it's done:

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...fficial-executed-with-a-mortar_n_2015515.html

So, if you want the folks in OUR country to start following THIS lunatic's example, then by all means...
Click to expand...

And?
 
N

Nightmareisalive

Well-Known Member
BigLutz said:
Usually in rape cases, evidence is pretty easy to find, its under the fingernails, and in the...well sexual areas.
Click to expand...

That is true but what about the cases that aren't rape things can become very messed up easily if a mistake is made and could send a whole case back. Really though I wouldn't what to be the one who goes "oopp we made a mistake they were actually innocent, its too late now they were executed so lets just send their family some flowers and saw we won't make the same mistakes again" which would happen if it turned out someone was actually innocent after being executed.
 
B

BigLutz

Banned
Nightmareisalive said:
That is true but what about the cases that aren't rape things can become very messed up easily if a mistake is made and could send a whole case back. Really though I wouldn't what to be the one who goes "oopp we made a mistake they were actually innocent, its too late now they were executed so lets just send their family some flowers and saw we won't make the same mistakes again" which would happen if it turned out someone was actually innocent after being executed.
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Well we were speaking of rape cases involving children, as for other cases we can go down to where the death penalty should be involved or not, but I was specifically talking of rape cases.
 
N

Nightmareisalive

Well-Known Member
BigLutz said:
Well we were speaking of rape cases involving children, as for other cases we can go down to where the death penalty should be involved or not, but I was specifically talking of rape cases.
Click to expand...

That is a tough thing so it is. When you think about it everyone's first reaction is either have them killed or tortured in some way which I know is very natural and you would think that no one would do something like that knowing that if someone in the public got their hands on them one of those two outcomes is very likely. Again though the death Penalty won't solve the problem since other people would do it anyway. I would much rather see effort put into stopping the act before it happens than actually thinking up suitable punishment for when it does, so you know you won't actually need to think up a punishment.

A more fitting punishment would be being locked up with other inmates and let them deal with them. It's well known (well over here anyway) that when the prisoners know of a sex offender who does the acts to children they deal with themselves. So the inmates who have done horrible things do the act of justice while innocent people don't have to soil their hands.
 
B

BigLutz

Banned
Nightmareisalive said:
That is a tough thing so it is. When you think about it everyone's first reaction is either have them killed or tortured in some way which I know is very natural and you would think that no one would do something like that knowing that if someone in the public got their hands on them one of those two outcomes is very likely. Again though the death Penalty won't solve the problem since other people would do it anyway. I would much rather see effort put into stopping the act before it happens than actually thinking up suitable punishment for when it does, so you know you won't actually need to think up a punishment.
Click to expand...

Problem is that you are dealing with the chemical nature of the brain when it comes to pedophilia, and in many ways rapes, so dealing with them without a overwhelming amount of fear to take away the sexual urges won't change anything.

Nightmareisalive said:
A more fitting punishment would be being locked up with other inmates and let them deal with them. It's well known (well over here anyway) that when the prisoners know of a sex offender who does the acts to children they deal with themselves. So the inmates who have done horrible things do the act of justice while innocent people don't have to soil their hands.
Click to expand...

Yet is that not still a death penalty except this time the victim or victim's parents cannot actual watch the sentence carried out?
 
B

BJPalmer85

Well-Known Member
BigLutz said:
Well we were speaking of rape cases involving children, as for other cases we can go down to where the death penalty should be involved or not, but I was specifically talking of rape cases.
Click to expand...

My stance: you rape a kid you die. I would have no problem being the executioner.

B
 
N

Nightmareisalive

Well-Known Member
BigLutz said:
Problem is that you are dealing with the chemical nature of the brain when it comes to pedophilia, and in many ways rapes, so dealing with them without a overwhelming amount of fear to take away the sexual urges won't change anything.



Yet is that not still a death penalty except this time the victim or victim's parents cannot actual watch the sentence carried out?
Click to expand...

That is true and is tough to deal with though who knows maybe in time to come people will develop drugs that can stop the chemical nature from happening.

I never really understood this the victim has to see the case being carried out viewpoint. I know people would like to see their tormentor punished but at the same time how many people actually have it in them to sit there and watch it happen. I think for some people it may be too much.

Another problem with that is that if a person was to be executed wouldn't a person who got satisfaction out of it not just as bad as the person who murdered anyone. I mean serial killers and pretty much all murders fill a animistic need to kill so for victim to relish in those feelings no matter what the case would actually be keeping the cycle going. Like you can't say it wrong to kill and then let someone enjoy it just because the law may say so.
 
L

LDSman

Well-Known Member
Nightmareisalive said:
Thing is though people still commit the crime. It may stop the executed but it doesn't stop others from copying them. Really an easier and much better solution for society would be actually examining why people commit these crimes.Finding out these answers and solutions would be so much better. It would stop people doing the crimes so the talk of the death penalty will be avoided.

The death penalty is not the answer as I said before some criminals actually want it. Really even if there was torture added in they would enjoy that more knowing that they were one of a few people who ever went through such a thing and go down in history for that rather than being left to rot in prison and slowly be forgotten. Remember making examples of someone means they go down in history for what happens to someone who commits a certain crime in a honestly you would be playing into their hands so would a victims family be happy knowing that the person who gave them so much pain who executed but in the end of the day they went out of this world the way they wanted to.

Also Anal Electrocution I thought the whole "don't drop the soap" covered that punishment. Sex offenders are in danger of being in the main prison because prisoners punish them for that so they are usually separated. Really if you want to set examples wouldn't letting them be in with the other criminals be a great solution.
Click to expand...

We already know why some people commit crimes. Some are crazy, some enjoy, some just don't care about anubody but themselves. It hasn't stopped anybody form committing a crime. If a person in jail decides they want to die, then let them. As for so-called infamy? Just strike their names from the records. John Doe A) was executed today.
 
M

Maedar

Banned
LDSman said:
We already know why some people commit crimes. Some are crazy, some enjoy, some just don't care about anubody but themselves. It hasn't stopped anybody form committing a crime. If a person in jail decides they want to die, then let them. As for so-called infamy? Just strike their names from the records. John Doe A) was executed today.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what Stalin did, fyi! He not only executed people, he erased all records of them, purging them from existence, so no-one would remember them. You want our President to be like Stalin?? Do you??

And that's not a Godwin, btw, that is one of many evil things that Stalin was specifically known for.
 
L

LDSman

Well-Known Member
Maedar said:
That's exactly what Stalin did, fyi! He not only executed people, he erased all records of them, purging them from existence, so no-one would remember them. You want our President to be like Stalin?? Do you??

And that's not a Godwin, btw, that is one of many evil things that Stalin was specifically known for.
Click to expand...

You are amusing. I am not saying purge them from existence. I am saying don't give them the notariety they desire.
 
L

LDSman

Well-Known Member
Maedar said:
Sure sounds like you said so.
Click to expand...

Fine. To clarify, strike their names from the court and prison records. Don't allow the media to use their names. John Smith exists until X point and then he disappears after that. The records would say "He committed a horrible crime and was sentenced." End of record.
 
M

Maedar

Banned
They can't do that. Freedom of the Press.

You Republicans claim to love the Constitution so much, but never seem to read anything other than the Second Amendment.
 
B

BigLutz

Banned
Maedar said:
They can't do that. Freedom of the Press.

You Republicans claim to love the Constitution so much, but never seem to read anything other than the Second Amendment.
Click to expand...

All the Government needs to do is say that the prisoner's name has been retracted for national security reasons, which is why they are able to redact things and still maintain the Freedom of the Press.
 
L

LDSman

Well-Known Member
Maedar said:
They can't do that. Freedom of the Press.

You Republicans claim to love the Constitution so much, but never seem to read anything other than the Second Amendment.
Click to expand...

How does not using the person's name prevent them from running the story? The Press has gone from reporting stories to manipulating stories.
 
N

Nightmareisalive

Well-Known Member
Doesn't work when a person commits a crime it goes worldwide with the internet and even after they are executed people will know it when the media stops reporting it or when their name is removed from records. The crime and person is forever recorded on the internet which would give the person the satisfaction of knowing their crime was made public knowledge for the world to see and if anything creates a breeding ground for copycats. Also it is very hard to control the internet as seen before the more one government tries to put some control over it the bigger the problem becomes.
 
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