Changes to 4th Gen Competitive Battling NO GARCHOMP DISCUSSION!

[Machiki]

Yay for abuse.

http://www.serebiiforums.com/showpost.php?p=9299395&postcount=5778

NO OU/UBER GARCHOMP DISCUSSION. WHO BRINGS BACK THIS IN THIS TOPIC IS GONNA RECEIVE A DISOBEYING RULES FROM A SPECIFIC SUBFORUM INFRACTION AND IS GOING TO HAVE HIS/HER POST DELETED/PARTIALLY DELETED.

DO NOT BRING GARCHOMP IN DISCUSSION ANYMORE! I said 4th, but it's actually the 5th thread we bring him on topic and again, everything was the same people started offending others and getting ridiculous in some parts and also same arguments all over again. If you like it Uber, you like it Uber dot. If you don't like it Uber, read the arguments for the 100th time here. If you still don't like it Uber, bad for you, sorry, it is Uber. Nothing else is going to be banned for him to return OU. Do not talk here D=

so say yay for Pizza and let's discuss everything happening currently at this amazing 4th generation =D

 

[Aviano]

It was deemed uber because it overcentralised the game. It has been tested for months.

 

[hobby]

Let's put it this way, with the advent of the Platinum move tutor moves, namely Outrage on Salamence and Kingdra, and the presence of Skymin in OU, there is serious doubt that Garchomp will be forced to remain Uber, not that it isn't doing well there, from what I have heard it fits in there quite well

 

[Yonowaru in Chaos]

^^Really? It's only Uber stat seems to be Attack, at 134, and there are higher defensive stats than that, also seeing as its strongest move is Outrage, which is only ever seen on Choice sets (which probably ties in, since Garchomp is unlikely to not be having a Choice item).

 

[palingensia]

Move tutors in Platinum won't change a hell of a lot. It's uber because you need a specified plan to beat it. Without one, it's near impossible. I mean, if you go into a battle and all of a sudden find yourself up against a Garchomp, you won't be prepared at all and will most likely get swept by it, or near enough.

 

[embargo]

All that really has to be said is that it's not like they just bumped it into ubers for no reason: Garchomp was tested and watched for months and then went on the suspect ladder.
After all of that, the community was given a fair vote, and the results were what, 75% for and 25% against? That is hardly a "close call" in terms of the overall community's thoughts.

Garchomp may seem to powerful to some people in the standard metagame (which it is not!) but it is too weak for ubers! Lugia can wall it, and a whole bunch of Pokemon in Ubers can outspeed it and kill it. Garchomp is like a weakened Arceus

It doesn't matter: Ubers is just the ban tier for OU - basically where "everything goes". If something is deemed to powerful for OU, it will be put into Uber, no matter how well it may fair in that environment.

If Garchomp has the potential to be uber, they should have moved it a long time ago, so that when it moves to ubers, people don't have to modify their teams to satisfy the rules

This is quite a petty arguement and it seems like you were just thinking of any old excuse to try and oppose Garchomp being uber in all honesty. I think that those 75% were evidently not bothered about "modifying their teams".

 

[mewtwos]

People say it should be uber but a simple starmie can kill it with ice beam. In my battles i still let people use it against me. Garchomp is not a uber in my opinion.

 

[Yonowaru in Chaos]

Move tutors in Platinum won't change a hell of a lot.

It has Aqua Tail and Earth Power now. =O

It's uber because you need a specified plan to beat it. Without one, it's near impossible. I mean, if you go into a battle and all of a sudden find yourself up against a Garchomp, you won't be prepared at all and will most likely get swept by it, or near enough.

Every competitive battler (unless it's their first time) will have a plan, and chances are, every team will have a Dragon-type counter (or at least one pokemon with Ice-type moves) since Dragons have become inevitable in the OU environment.

People say it should be uber but a simple starmie can kill it with ice beam. In my battles i still let people use it against me. Garchomp is not a uber in my opinion.

But Starmie isn't a counter. It can't switch in well, especially with entry hazards, and relies on revenge kill (and Choice Scarf, perhaps as well) to be able to handle it. And then there's Yache berrys.

 

[embargo]

People say it should be uber but a simple starmie can kill it with ice beam. In my battles i still let people use it against me. Garchomp is not a uber in my opinion.

Do you really not understand the copious flaws in your logic?

 

[palingensia]

It has Aqua Tail and Earth Power now. =O

Aqua Tail isn't too bad is it? And isn't Earth Power special based anyway?

Every competitive battler (unless it's their first time) will have a plan, and chances are, every team will have a Dragon-type counter (or at least one pokemon with Ice-type moves) since Dragons have become inevitable in the OU environment.

That's kinda my point... You really need a counter for them, and that just wastes a slot in your party in a way just because of one inevitable Pokemon.

 

[mewtwos]

But Starmie isn't a counter. It can't switch in well, especially with entry hazards, and relies on revenge kill (and Choice Scarf, perhaps as well) to be able to handle it. And then there's Yache berrys.

Ok so you have to sacrafice a pokemon for it, or if starmie does survive garchomp switches or it is dead.

But if starmie doesn't work then what can switch in on garchomp?

 

[Yonowaru in Chaos]

Aqua Tail isn't too bad is it? And isn't Earth Power special based anyway?

There's the odd Garchomp that goes Specs, but otherwise no. And yeah, that was sarcasm.

That's kinda my point... You really need a counter for them, and that just wastes a slot in your party in a way just because of one inevitable Pokemon.

Not really, Salamence, Garchomp, some Dragonite, some Flygon, Kingdra (who has been more popular recently, but is essentially exempt because of neutrality to Ice) are expected threats, but they're not the only ones that are weak to Ice. Hippowdon, Gliscor, Roserade, the odd Torterra and the odd Staraptor are all weak to Ice, among many others.

Ice is also a damn given if a Pokemon carries Hidden Power (followed by Grass and Electric, to counter Swampert and Gyarados respectively) so preparing for Garchomp was as elementary as preparing against any other Dragon-type.

It has been stated though, in the Competitive Strategy group that Garchomp is special in that it can't be Paralysed by Thunder Wave, unless Delcatty somehow wandered in to OU, so the only Pokemon that can compete viably in OU that can Paralyse it is Roserade with Stun Spore (and with only 75 accuracy).

However, Garchomp can easily be shut down with other statuses (or not, if the team includes an Aromatherapy Blissey), such as Dusknoir Will-o-Wisp or Yanmega Hypnosis. It really isn't hard to beat Garchomp, but it's almost guaranteed that Garchomp will take down at least one pokemon on your team should you attempt to do so.

 

[Yo Shee]

Garchomp may seem to powerful to some people in the standard metagame (which it is not!) but it is too weak for ubers! Lugia can wall it, and a whole bunch of Pokemon in Ubers can outspeed it and kill it. Garchomp is like a weakened Arceus

If it's too strong for one tier but too weak for the higher one, it still has to be moved into the higher one. That's why we have tiers, to make the game more fair, not to make it so that everyone can use their favorite pokemon on their team. Take Deoxys Normal Form for example. It obviously is useless in ubers because the Attack Form is better in every way, but it can't be used in standard because it's too strong for them.

But if starmie doesn't work then what can switch in on garchomp?

Weren't you one of the people who said that Garchomp shouldn't be uber? Now you're essentially saying it should since there isn't anything that can safely switch in on it, which would make it uber.

 

[Black Murder Heavangelon]

But if starmie doesn't work then what can switch in on garchomp?

Skill Link Icicle Spear Cloyster anyone?

Only the SD set though.

 

[Yonowaru in Chaos]

Ok so you have to sacrafice a pokemon for it, or if starmie does survive garchomp switches or it is dead.

But if starmie doesn't work then what can switch in on garchomp?

Prediction.

If you predict an Earthquake, send in something Flying/levitation.

If you predict a Fire Fang, send in a Flash Fire/resistor.

If you predict an Outrage/Dragon Claw, not much you can do with a Bronzong or a Skarmory, so you might as well let it die then revenge kill.

The whole game is basically prediciton.

Skill Link Icicle Spear Cloyster anyone?

Only the SD set though

.

lol, I really have to try that out someday.

But Cloyster might fall to Stone Edge.

 

[golduck#1]

yeah u basically predic

 

[palingensia]

There's the odd Garchomp that goes Specs, but otherwise no. And yeah, that was sarcasm.

I thought so...

Not really, Salamence, Garchomp, some Dragonite, some Flygon, Kingdra (who has been more popular recently, but is essentially exempt because of neutrality to Ice) are expected threats, but they're not the only ones that are weak to Ice. Hippowdon, Gliscor, Roserade, the odd Torterra and the odd Staraptor are all weak to Ice, among many others.

Ice is also a damn given if a Pokemon carries Hidden Power (followed by Grass and Electric, to counter Swampert and Gyarados respectively) so preparing for Garchomp was as elementary as preparing against any other Dragon-type.

It has been stated though, in the Competitive Strategy group that Garchomp is special in that it can't be Paralysed by Thunder Wave, unless Delcatty somehow wandered in to OU, so the only Pokemon that can compete viably in OU that can Paralyse it is Roserade with Stun Spore (and with only 75 accuracy).

However, Garchomp can easily be shut down with other statuses (or not, if the team includes an Aromatherapy Blissey), such as Dusknoir Will-o-Wisp or Yanmega Hypnosis. It really isn't hard to beat Garchomp, but it's almost guaranteed that Garchomp will take down at least one pokemon on your team should you attempt to do so.

But for some reason, Garchomp has carried more of an uproar upon its usage. Why is that? Sand Veil? 104 Speed? Like you said, near immunity to paralysis? Why is it superior to, say, Salamence and Dragonite?

 

[Black Murder Heavangelon]

.

lol, I really have to try that out someday.

But Cloyster might fall to Stone Edge.

Base 180 Defense says otherwise. Fire Blast is what you'll have to look out for. >.>

 

[Yonowaru in Chaos]

It's mainly a combination of all those. I wouldn't say it was overcentralising, since its basically another Dragon (and only Yache berry, which Salamence has no problem carrying, prevents the Ice weakness), but Sand Veil is a factor. It is not the only factor, though, since Gliscor will get a ban as well if that was the case.

Dragonite is out of the question with its speed, so I think the only competition is between Salamence and Garchomp. And of course, Garchomp gets Thunder Wave immunity! Oh yeah, and Salamence has less Speed than Garchomp by 4 points. yet has 1 more Attack than Garchomp. Salamence also has a very viable Sp. Attack and now, Heat Wave as opposed to Flamethrower (it's only 5 points, but hey, we're already being pedantic about 1 measly Attack point) as a tutorable move.

If anything, paralysis is the only factor between Garchomp and Salamence, but IMO, if Garchomp's going to Uber, Salamence should be put in to consideration as well. I'd doubt the entire OU environment would change when Garchomp's been banned.

EDIT: How much damage done to Cloyster assuming it was a critical hit?

 

[Black Murder Heavangelon]

How much damage done to Cloyster assuming it was a critical hit?

I don't really know. 12.5 Critical hit Ratio + 80%Accuracy = Not gonna happen. Alot. =D