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Changes to 4th Gen Competitive Battling NO GARCHOMP DISCUSSION!

Discussion in 'Older Gens' started by Machiki, Oct 2, 2008.

  1. Yeah, Crobat was voted UU with 100% of the vote last time, I think!

    Also, the 10 most used NUs so far are:

    1. Medicham
    2. Gardevoir
    3. Sandslash
    4. Gligar
    5. Skuntank
    6. Pinsir
    7. Jumpluff
    8. Manectric
    9. Dusclops
    10. Slowking
     
  2. goldfan

    goldfan playing an ish game

    It's awesome to see Gligar and Dusclops up there. I can understand Medicham and Jumpluff. I can imagine Gardevoir is pretty awesome with no Blissey or Chansey, Happiny can't be up to much! Looks like a very special orientated metagame with Gligar there to counter Medicham. Funny what the lack of Blissey / Chansey does, eh?
     
  3. Noheart

    Noheart The Abysswalker

    ^

    Yep. Go go Nasty Plot Slowking!

    :D
     
  4. silversymbol

    silversymbol <----Hunting

    Are NUs really that bad?

    I get really fed up at the pokemon that people list as NU (NeverUsed) and as OU (Overused). Do Pokes like Muk, Glaceon and Gardevoir really deserve to be so underrated? Muk has the most awesome defenses(apart from defense, which can be boosted by curse) and from what I've seen, Gardevoir and Glaceon rip through the OU metagame (they've got base 115 and 130 SATK respectively). Also the three NU legends (Articuno, Entei and Regice) are all clearly too strong for their tier.
    In OU it gets worse. What the hell are Smeargle Rhyperior and Empoleon doing there? Smeargle will get killed if you prod it, Rhyperior will also die to any special super effective attack and Empoleon's movepool is realy shallow.

    Any comments will be appreciated.
     
  5. Amonitas

    Amonitas Well-Known Member

    Smeargle has the biggest movepool of all pokemon, it can dark void, explode, baton pass, anything. Rhyperior just is strong and sandstorm boosts it's special defense. Empoleon has 12 resistances so it can switch easily. And about regice, it has high special defense, but it's typing and weakness to stealh rock really mess it up and Blissey is better in every way. Muk's defense dies in front of earthquakes and curse isn't that good as that guarantees those EQ's hit. I am not sure about gardevoir, I guess there are so many better options than her.
     
  6. BanetteFan

    BanetteFan Active Member

    Articuno has a 4xs weakness to Stealth Rock. Entei has a shallow move pool. Regice is a "flawed" special wall. And yet I still see nothing really wrong with all of those Pkmn. I've never even used those before, but I think Glaceon and Gardevoir shouldn't be disused entirely.

    I take it you got his info from Smogon? I like their move set ideas but their tier rankings drive me nuts. They list just about everything as NU! Last I looked there Donphan was in UU, and I though it was OU? Another exmaple, Ursaring = NU? It's got a massive attack stat and Quick Feet to boost its speed. Even without Quick Feet, you could just Baton pass some speed to it. Slap on a Flame/Toxic Orb and...woah! Of course, that's just ONE example.
     
  7. Final

    Final I Submit to No One

    Empoleon is packed with resistances and has an immunity to Toxic which is very handy. Glaceon only has decent Defenses and great Special Attack and poor Speed ruins his Sweeping capabilities and only 1 resistance and common weaknesses ruins its Defensive capabilities. Articuno and Regice have great Special Defense and passable Defense but Stealth Rock just rips through Articuno and hurts Regice. The lack of reliable recovery hurts Regice more than that. Like Glaceon, Regice's great Special Defense is undermined by its single resistance and common weaknesses and Articuno is just hurt by its weaknesses.

    Smeargle's movepool is the highest out of any Pokemon and is the fastest Spore user in the game as a result of that.

    Rhypherior has huge Attack and Defense as well as above average HP and being a Rock Type it gets a Special Defense boost from Sandstorm and Solid Rock also helps it avoid OHKOs from weaker Special Attacks.

    Muk has a crappy movepool and a common weakness in Ground. Gardevoir is outclassed by Alakazam and Azelf as a Special Sweeper because of its poor Speed and its Physical Defense just sucks. Gardevoir should be used Defensively or it is just an inferior Alakazam.

    Entei lacks the movepool to take advantage of its great Attack and defensively, it lacks. Sure it has great HP, but its Typing and Defenses undermine that.

    Not all NU's are bad but there's a reason why most are Never used.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  8. Shadow Gamer

    Shadow Gamer The Shadow Trainer

    I don't think NU's are that bad. I use them all the time because a lot of my favorite pokemon are NU. But then again I'm not really into EV's, IV's, natures, or competitive battling so I don't really care what category Smogon or anybody else put's them in
     
  9. Lucariofan-atic

    Lucariofan-atic avant ǝpɹɐƃ painter☆

    I don't think so, because some of my favorites are NU pokemons

    like Smeargle, they can learn EVERY move, with the help of Sketch move.
    And i don't think Gardevoir and Glaceon should be never used
     
  10. ZanderR110

    ZanderR110 Northern Darkness

    They are in their tier based on USAGE, hence Never Used. Most of them are just outclasses by one or more other Pokemon. Gardevoir is outclasses by Alakazam and Azelf offensively and by Cresselia and Uxie on the Defence. Glaceon was cursed with the Ice typing without a secondary type to help it our defencively. It does get itself a niche on Hail teams though thanks to Snow Cloak and a 100% accurate Blizzard, but Hail is a rarely seen weather effect. Smeargle, Empoleon and Rhyperior were all covered above.

    As for Donfan, he's UU now because his usage dropped. That's all there is to it. Of course he's still viable in OU, but people are finding better alternatives. Dugtrio fell also.

    To turn the table, Umbreon recently was moved up to OU.
     
  11. Noheart

    Noheart The Abysswalker

    The only NU I think would be a force to be reckoned with in Cradily.


    Anyone try to face one in Sandstorm? O_O That thing is beastly.


    But I've swept OU teams with Farfetch'd... with Baton Passing of course.
     
  12. Dragoon952

    Dragoon952 The Winter Moth

    Right. There is nothing stopping anyone from using NU pokemon in OU jsut because of their classification. They are just ranked NU because there are other pokemon that do the same job better and get used much more frequently.

    Unfortunately, when battling competitively, just using your favorite pokemon usually won't hold up to people who are taking out OU pokemon. Doesn't mean you can't use them, just that they will struggle.
     
  13. wichu

    wichu Well-Known Member

    Just because a Pokemon is NU doesn't mean that it's bad. Tiers are decided by usage; if everyone suddenly stopped using Salamence, it would become NU (or more likely, BL), but it wouldn't become a worse Pokemon.

    Since Smogon's tier formula is designed to allow around 50 Pokemon into OU and UU, a lot of Pokemon will obviously end up NU. That doesn't mean that they're bad Pokemon, just that they're not used that often. Though I admit the main reason for that is that they're not as good as others :p

    I've used NUs and UUs in standard play before; although they're usually not as powerful as OUs, I'd say they're more fun to play. One of their main advantages is surprise factor, since unlike with OUs, people won't always know the movepools and sets of NUs and UUs. I've had someone switch their Forretress into my Manectric before, not realising that it can learn Fire attacks like Flamethrower :p
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  14. Zero Nexus

    Zero Nexus Stand up, go for it

    Tiers are for queers.

    Seriously, tiers solve NOTHING. You shouldn't be afraid to use your favorite Pokemon just because it's in some imaginary "Tier". I don't care, i have never gone by this "Tier" crap, and i never will.

    Seriously, silversymbol, if you want to use a certain Pokemon, just DO IT. Tiers are stupid and just hold us back.
     
  15. Mega Typhlosion

    Mega Typhlosion Well-Known Member

    Well said. My main team has a great overall battle record and it has, let me see, one or two OU. Everyone else is NU/UU.

    I love Salamence. I don't use it because it's too common. It's annoying.
    Like Garchomp being the only Dragon-type I don't like because of that same reason (thank god it's uber now, so nobody uses it anymore :p).

    Use your favorites, tiers are just guidelines. Don't mean nothing.
     
  16. wichu

    wichu Well-Known Member

    I hope when you say 'screw tiers', you mean NU and UU, not Ubers. Playing without Ubers is sensible; playing with Ubers is what holds you back (since it makes a whole lot of Pokemon unusable, and eventually turns into Kyogre/Darkrai spam; just look at PBR).
     
  17. The King of Ho-oh's

    The King of Ho-oh's <---- Newest Shiny

    I've seen many people who over prepare for the OU tier only to be surprised (and creamed) by a UU team. For example I've destroyed a few OU teams with just my Scarfed Venusaur. When comes down to it use pokemon you like, but don't expect to beat a whole competitively trained team with a Beautifly.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2009
  18. foxyman1167

    foxyman1167 From Zero To Hero

    Any pokemon is good when trained properly, but some deserve to be in NU for shallow movepools, bad stats etc
     
  19. pokemaster001

    pokemaster001 ....................

    aww, I wanted to say that...
    I WAS RIGHT!?!?!?!?!
    *does happy dance*
    YAY ORIGINALITY!!!!
     
  20. TheMagician

    TheMagician Illusion & Deception

    NU's bad? I honestly don't think so. Even knowing the fact that NU's such as Glaceon and Leafeon have shallow move pools, they can't be taken lightly.

    Most of them are just outclassed by other Pokemon, as others have said.

    Most of my favorites land in the UU tier, but does that stop me from using them? Heck no. And I have just as many NU's as I do UU's. The only tier I lack in is OU, but that is purposeful. Vaporeon and Jolteon both make it onto my teams at times, but that's because of my history with them, dating back to the old days and have always been trusted partners.

    So, yeah, use whatever you want. I go into battles with what I want to use, and that, makes battling more fun.

    @ Gardevoir being considered NU I feel is a crime...
     

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