Changes to 4th Gen Competitive Battling NO GARCHOMP DISCUSSION!

[WynautQueen]

I rarely bother with sticky too closely to tiers. I use them as a guideline-- something to consider, but not a rule. After all, I rarely go into a competitive battle without my Level 99 Mawile (waiting to give it that last level, just in case it ever gets an evolution that requires leveling).

If you've got a Pokemon that you love, raise it! There's nothing better in the game than the feeling you get from winning with a Pokemon you really like.

 

[Riano Ostergarro]

I use a Relicanth in my OU team and he's freakin' beastly.

 

[WynautQueen]

NU is just Never Used as many people said. Some NUs should be UU imo. I play UU on Shoddy and use a few NUs (I also reach the Top 50 several times, right now I'm ~12, so I can attest to my success). They also have an NU Server. Its pretty fun.

However I'm not telling you that they're bad in OU or Ubers. =]

Here are a few Pokemon that are very good but people don't realize it.

Articuno Who cares about Stealth Rock, a good player can utilize it with entry hazards and wreck teams.
Cloyster Definately good. Offensive versions can OHKO Roserade and 2HKO Yanmega as well as set up Spikes and Rapid Spin entry hazards away.
Entei Calm Mind + Substitute is really great. Its Speed and power can destroy nsuspecting teams.
Kangaskhan My favorite NU. Choice Band Return destroys entire teams alone that do not carry Tangrowth, Donphan, steel types, etc.
Lapras Curse/Toxic/Waterfall/Rest is a really great set. However a really cool one is the Mix Dragon Dancer. LO Waterfall/Thunderbolt/Ice Beam/Dragon Dance OHKOs Tangrowth, Altaria, Donphan. 2HKOs Milotic(with SR) and Slowbro. Waterfall just hits hard after a Dragon Dance.
Ninetales Seriously. Fire Blast/Energy Ball/Hidden Power Rock/Nasty Plot can sweep on its own. Many people use Regibro/Milotic and lose to it.
Regigigas Very very uncommon but very cool. Milotic and Registeel cannot break its Substitute and it can Toxic/Thunder Wave stuff.
Walrein Great in UU Hail. Destroys entire teams if played right.

There are a lot more NUs that can be used to great success.

You've very right. I love using Kangaskhan (especially my XD Kanga with Sing) and Lapras, in particular. Wary players would do well to remember Articuno's Mind Reader/Sheer Cold capability too.

Also, even though I beat her, one girl I battled in a tournament had a team that included a Giratina and a Rayquaza, along with a Walrein. I actually had more trouble with the Walrein, the way she used it.

 

[granbull guy]

Glaceon should not be a NU because my Glaceon beat Cynthias Garchomp.

 

[AstralEon]

NU aren't all that bad. Sure some aren't good in competitive battles but they are really fun to use in campaign story lines. It changes your perceptive view about them at the end.

 

[fschulze47]

Glaceon should not be a NU because my Glaceon beat Cynthias Garchomp.

Any pokemon can beat Cynthia's Garchomp, because when facing Cynthia you have access to revives and hyper potions. That's not such a great arguement seeing as we're talking competitive, not ingame. Heck, my GOLDUCK beat Cynthia's Garchomp. But, that's beside the point. When played with proper team support, plenty of NUs can pull off a role in upper tiers.

 

[Volteon]

Moving this to Battle forum =}

 

[Soiherdyouliekme]

Glaceon should not be a NU because my Glaceon beat Cynthias Garchomp.

First, Cynthia's Garchomp is ingame. To put it this way, the AI isn't very smart. Doesn't take much to down it as long as you are approximately the same level or higher (You can still down it with a lower level, just takes more time).

Secondly, in the metagame, speed is critical. If you don't have that, you better have good defenses to get in a hit. And defensively, Ice-types are weak to fighting and rock (two critical offensive types) and not to mention double damage on Stealth Rock. In UU, Glaceon could do decently but it would, without a doubt, be ripped to shreds in OU.

 

[goldfan]

Yes, NUs are less used for a reason.

That doesn't mean they can't be effective though. Some are lower tier simply because they are overshadowed by Pokemon in higher tiers, others are so because they have lower base stats or a shallow move pool. That doesn't mean they don't have their niches in certain teams, though.

 

[PokeN3rd]

That's how I feel about Spinning, which is why I asked if it was viable. Also, I misunderstood the post when I first read it. I apologize.

 

[Soiherdyouliekme]

Yes, NUs are less used for a reason.

That doesn't mean they can't be effective though. Some are lower tier simply because they are overshadowed by Pokemon in higher tiers, others are so because they have lower base stats or a shallow move pool. That doesn't mean they don't have their niches in certain teams, though.

For example, Golem is not half-bad as a physical tank, but Rhyperior is better than it in pretty much every way so Golem is naturally always going to be overlooked in an OU team.

 

[Sakata-kun]

no not really it takes a creative trainer to use certain moves and abillities to their full potential

take floatzel swift swim for instance

i got swept by that due to a damp lancturn rain dance and a really good counter switch into floatzel i forgot how he did it. ... taht floatzel even outspeeded my salamence that Dragon Danced once too and my salamanece is 252 EV adamant nature with like a 286 speed which is like a 28 or somethin gIV not bad if u think about it and it got out speeded by swift swim floatzel jolly or adamant nature i dont know.

so all you need is some creativity to use an never used to its full

 

[Drybones446]

Well, Glacen and Gardevoir make good sweepers in the OU metagame if they had more Speed. Entei is mainly NU because even if its Attack is high, it lacks a powerful physical STAB and its shallow physical movepool. Articuno has good defenses, but its SR weak and lacks anything to prove that its better than Moltres, which has the same 4x Rock weakness.

Smeargle is important to Baton Pass teams due to the moveset of Spore, Substitute, Ingrain and Baton Pass. Ingrain prevents PHazers from ruining their chain, and provides healing.
Rhyperior is too broken in UU because of its sheer power and Solid Rock. Solid Rock means it won't be OHKOed with un-boosted SE attacks.
Empoleon is just too strong in UU. Its movepool isn't that bad, plus it is a very versaitle pokemon.

NUs aren't that bad, I use a Qwilfish in OU.

 

[I like Pikachu]

We would see a rise of Heatran, Infernape, Weaville, Any Pokemon that's resist its STAB attacks, Crobat would become standard, Froslass would become standard and Swampert will be used less.

 

[Drybones446]

We would see a rise of Heatran, Infernape, Weaville, Any Pokemon that's resist its STAB attacks, Crobat would become standard, Froslass would become standard and Swampert will be used less.

Not exactly. Shaymin-S outspeeds them all, and KOes them with Air Slash / Seed Flare. HP Ground can be used against Heatran.

 

[Soiherdyouliekme]

Well, Glacen and Gardevoir make good sweepers in the OU metagame if they had more Speed. Entei is mainly NU because even if its Attack is high, it lacks a powerful physical STAB and its shallow physical movepool. Articuno has good defenses, but its SR weak and lacks anything to prove that its better than Moltres, which has the same 4x Rock weakness.

Smeargle is important to Baton Pass teams due to the moveset of Spore, Substitute, Ingrain and Baton Pass. Ingrain prevents PHazers from ruining their chain, and provides healing.
Rhyperior is too broken in UU because of its sheer power and Solid Rock. Solid Rock means it won't be OHKOed with un-boosted SE attacks.
Empoleon is just too strong in UU. Its movepool isn't that bad, plus it is a very versaitle pokemon.

NUs aren't that bad, I use a Qwilfish in OU.

Still, Gardevoir can never hope to sweep as well as Alakazam, so its usage is limited to support. Even in UU, Espeon despite its shallow movepool does a better job at sweeping than Gardevoir. Gardevoir still has Will-o-wisp, but that's all.

 

[Soiherdyouliekme]

Not exactly. Shaymin-S outspeeds them all, and KOes them with Air Slash / Seed Flare. HP Ground can be used against Heatran.

Shaymin-S may be faster than Weavile, but Ice Shard, lol.

 

[Sakata-kun]

Still, Gardevoir can never hope to sweep as well as Alakazam, so its usage is limited to support. Even in UU, Espeon despite its shallow movepool does a better job at sweeping than Gardevoir. Gardevoir still has Will-o-wisp, but that's all.

i prefer gengar over alakazam tho as a special sweep since alakazam has a horrible movepool compared to gengar.

 

[Casty]

Smeargle is important to Baton Pass teams due to the moveset of Spore, Substitute, Ingrain and Baton Pass. Ingrain prevents PHazers from ruining their chain, and provides healing.

This and it makes a great support lead with Spore and all kinds of Entry Hazards to choose from.

In Doubles metagame, I am pretty sure anyone who plays competitevely felt the warth of FEARgle. VGC 2007 Champion won the whole tournament because of him.

 

[Darkrai00]

IMO most NUs belong where they arebwith some exceptions. like with my newest CRMT thread my main sweeper is ursaring(NU) but he OWNS. i baton pass it speed, and a guts boosted facade 1HKOs SOOO many things bar scarmory. i really believe ursaring is WAYY underated and with everyone today being crazed OU spammers they dont even think about things like ursaring.