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Changes to 4th Gen Competitive Battling NO GARCHOMP DISCUSSION!

Void

Well-Known Member
My stance on this subject is this: NU Pokemon are not bad. I've created what is similar to a theory. Basically it's this:

OU Pokemon can stand on their own with little or no support from the rest of the team. The Pokemon in this tier are the best at their specific jobs, but like any Pokemon, they have their flaws. However, these flaws are also very minor, such as Gengar really only being weak to Pursuit and the rare Sucker Punch. These Pokemon are the ones to go to for low-risk, high-reward Pokemon.

UU Pokemon can be just as tough as OU, but they are either too unpopular or require some support from the team. I use many UU Pokemon, as Miltank is one of the most annoying Pokemon on my team, and Azumarill can sweep through entire teams with the right support. However, like I stated, Miltank isn't very popular among others, and Azumarill needs a bit of set-up to release its full potential.

NU Pokemon may seem like the bottom of the barrel, but with the right team set-up, they can be just as dangerous. With a bit of creativity, you may find your opponent quite flustered with your surprise Pokemon. The only thing about NU Pokemon is that they usually carry flaws, such as a bad weakness to common threats, but they can be avoided with the correct set-up.

And that is my opinion. I normally don't pay attention to tier rankings, but you must make sure that your lower-ranking Pokemon have good synergy with the rest of your team.

QFT. Belly Drum Linoone works wonders with sleep support. Just a one turn set-up, and it can sweep entire teams.

I can't really justify Regice being NU, though. Yes, it might have a 2x weakness to Stealth Rock, but so do many popular OUs. The RestTalk set, in particular, is amazing in OU, and doesn't require any support whatsoever. People say Blissey does the job better, but Regice still has some advantages over Blissey (not always getting owned by physical attacks, higher Special Attack).
 

Black Murder Heavangelon

Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!
Tiers shouldn't hold you back from using your favorites. Just know what pokemon does what when it comes to standard play, for example, you can expect a Blissey to be a cleric so your Honchkrow can just Taunt it and threaten a OHKO with Superpower.

Speaking of which, I destroyed an Uber team on PBR WiFi some time ago. And it wasn't some random noober, the guy knew what he was doing, like Taunt Deoxys-S. And I beat him with UUs (Well, Crobat s BL but whatever). It doesn't take you superstrong pokemon and a tier to win the matches. In the end, it all comes down to who is the smarter player.
 

Aerodrome

Princess Zelda Fan!
Gardevoir and Glaceon rip through the OU metagame (they've got base 115 and 130 SATK respectively).

Gardevoir is pretty slow though.

Also, Glaceon = lols because of its typing. Ice is bad. Like... Really bad. xD

there r alot of good nu, but for some reason they r there ex:
rampardos 165 base atk how?and its nu?its because of it lack of:
defecses, speed and hp, few teams can make good use of him.
Except a Trick Room/Memento team. That's where Rampardos really shines.
Mmm... Mightyena... Poisin Fang, Swagger, Howl, Sucker Punch.
Nuff said.

I could think of a hundred better movesets for Mightyena than that.

Hint: Remove Howl. xD
 

PokeN3rd

Not Gem King Kilik
I can't really justify Regice being NU, though. Yes, it might have a 2x weakness to Stealth Rock, but so do many popular OUs. The RestTalk set, in particular, is amazing in OU, and doesn't require any support whatsoever. People say Blissey does the job better, but Regice still has some advantages over Blissey (not always getting owned by physical attacks, higher Special Attack).

Top physical threats in OU: Salamence, Gyarados, Infernape, Lucario, Tyranitar, Scizor, Metagross, Jirachi

Out of those 8 alone, which are in the Top 10, 6 of them have STAB on Super Effective moves against Regice, and all of them are faster. It does still get owned by Physical attacks, as even non-STAB super effective hits can rip through 80/100 defenses, such as Salamence using Brick Break (uncommon, but an example nonetheless) or Scizor using SuperPower.

As for having high Special Attack, what does that have to do with it being compared to Blissey? If you're comparing a Special Wall/Sponge, then attack should have nothing to do with it. 236 Sp.A isn't anything to boast about either, to be quite honest.
 

Tales Fanatic777

Cold as Ice
Gardevoir is outclassed by Alakazam and Azelf as a Special Sweeper because of its poor Speed and its Physical Defense just sucks. Gardevoir should be used Defensively or it is just an inferior Alakazam.
QUOTE]

Well... if you are going to say that Gardevoir has a bad defense... then lets take a look at Alakazam and Azelf... they have a defense of 45 and 70 respectively... while Gardevoir has a 65.. while it may be lower than Azelfs... its Special Defense however is TREMENDOUSLY higher than both of them with its 115... where as Azelf and Alakazam only hit 70 and 85 respectively. This brings me to another point... Gardevoir has a GREAT movepool... both supportively and offensively with moves such as Will-O-Wisp... let alone that is has one of the greatest abilities in the game.... and as for its SpA... it is still the same as Azelfs, which still allows for some good sweeping...
 

Final

I Submit to No One
Gardevoir is outclassed by Alakazam and Azelf as a Special Sweeper because of its poor Speed and its Physical Defense just sucks. Gardevoir should be used Defensively or it is just an inferior Alakazam.

Well... if you are going to say that Gardevoir has a bad defense... then lets take a look at Alakazam and Azelf... they have a defense of 45 and 70 respectively... while Gardevoir has a 65.. while it may be lower than Azelfs... its Special Defense however is TREMENDOUSLY higher than both of them with its 115... where as Azelf and Alakazam only hit 70 and 85 respectively. This brings me to another point... Gardevoir has a GREAT movepool... both supportively and offensively with moves such as Will-O-Wisp... let alone that is has one of the greatest abilities in the game.... and as for its SpA... it is still the same as Azelfs, which still allows for some good sweeping...

Will-O-Wisp does help make up for its poor Defense but its Speed lets it down as a Sweeper. Base 80 as opposed to base 115 for Azelf and base 120 for Alakazam. Paralysis support is what can really help Gardevoir sweep. Or you could Baton Pass it some Speed boosts but personally, I would rather cripple things with Paralysis as many things despise it because it not only slows them down but they may also not be able to attack as a result.
 

Tales Fanatic777

Cold as Ice
Spoken like a true vet, yes, I agree like that for the most part... all i'm saying is that Gardevoir should not be just cast aside... it may not have the most desirable sweeping stats, but it has a LOT of support capabilities
 

torchic_lover

Well-Known Member
No, I just swept 3 teams with a flareon...one example

Rules: Ladder Match, Sleep Clause, Freeze Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Clause, Species Clause, Strict Damage Clause, Soul Dew Clause
thundybear sent out Ninjask (lvl 100 Ninjask ♂).
pokemon hgss sent out wall (lvl 100 Forretress ♂).
Ninjask used Substitute.
Ninjask lost 25% of its health.
Ninjask made a substitute!
wall used Zap Cannon.
wall's attack missed!
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!

Ninjask used Swords Dance.
Ninjask's attack was sharply raised.
wall used Zap Cannon.
It's super effective!
The substitute took damage for Ninjask!
Ninjask's substitute faded!
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!

Ninjask used Protect.
Ninjask protected itself!
wall used Zap Cannon.
Ninjask protected itself!
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!

Ninjask used Substitute.
Ninjask lost 25% of its health.
Ninjask made a substitute!
wall used Zap Cannon.
wall's attack missed!
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!

Ninjask used Swords Dance.
Ninjask's attack was sharply raised.
wall used Zap Cannon.
wall's attack missed!
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!

Ninjask used Swords Dance.
Ninjask's attack was sharply raised.
wall used Gyro Ball.
The substitute took damage for Ninjask!
Ninjask's substitute faded!
Ninjask's Speed Boost raised its speed!

Ninjask used Protect.
Ninjask protected itself!
wall used Gyro Ball.
Ninjask protected itself!
Ninjask's speed won't go higher!

Ninjask used Baton Pass.
thundybear switched in Flareon (lvl 100 Flareon ♂).
wall used Gyro Ball.
It's not very effective...
A critical hit!
Flareon lost 87% of its health.

Flareon used Fire Fang.
It's super effective!
wall lost 100% of its health.
pokemon hgss's wall fainted.

pokemon hgss switched in speed of light (lvl 100 Jolteon ♂).
thundybear: crit hax :)
Flareon used Fire Fang.
speed of light lost 100% of its health.
pokemon hgss's speed of light fainted.

pokemon hgss: ya right
thundybear: wow
pokemon hgss: :(
pokemon hgss switched in sea horse (lvl 100 Kingdra ♂).
thundybear: 2 OHKO by a flreon
Flareon used Superpower.
sea horse lost 100% of its health.
pokemon hgss's sea horse fainted.
Flareon's attack was lowered.
Flareon's defence was lowered.

thundybear: 3
pokemon hgss: HAXS
thundybear: how?
thundybear: at all?
pokemon hgss: ummmmmmmm
thundybear: yeah
thundybear: i'm still up +5 even after the -1
pokemon hgss: ahhhhhhhhhh my head hurts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thundybear: switch
pokemon hgss switched in sandstorm (lvl 100 Tyranitar ♂).
sandstorm's Sand Stream whipped up a sandstorm!
A sandstorm brewed!
Flareon used Superpower.
It's super effective!
sandstorm lost 100% of its health.
pokemon hgss's sandstorm fainted.
Flareon's attack was lowered.
Flareon's defence was lowered.
The sandstorm rages.
Flareon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Flareon lost 6% of its health.

pokemon hgss switched in willpower (lvl 100 Azelf).
Flareon used Fire Fang.
willpower lost 100% of its health.
pokemon hgss's willpower fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
Flareon is buffetted by the sandstorm!
Flareon lost 6% of its health.

pokemon hgss switched in flamer (lvl 100 Typhlosion ♂).
thundybear: :)
Flareon used Superpower.
flamer lost 100% of its health.
flamer hung on using its Focus Sash!
Flareon's attack was lowered.
Flareon's defence was lowered.
flamer used Thunderpunch.
Flareon lost 1% of its health.
thundybear's Flareon fainted.
The sandstorm rages.
flamer is buffetted by the sandstorm!
flamer lost 0% of its health.
pokemon hgss's flamer fainted.
thundybear wins!
pokemon hgss has left the room.
thundybear: gos bless
 

PokeN3rd

Not Gem King Kilik
Do you realize you played a guy who not only led off with Forretress, but he used Zap Cannon and couldn't beat a Ninjask? Had he merely Gyro Ball'd, you wouldn't have obtained anything but speed, but unfortunately you're posting a match against a horrible player. Post a log with a good, or even decent match and I'll believe Flareon can sweep well, or at least as well as Infernape.
 
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J.T.

ಠ_ಠ
Glancing at the most-used statistics, Crobat is at the 50th spot. Umbreon, Rhyperior, and Alakazam have all fallen to UU - Umbreon and Rhyperior are obvious, but Alakazam seems special to me, and I'll talk about him in a sec. Interestingly enough, Porygon-Z is still OU, even though I'd suspect Alakazam is much better and more commonly used.

Roserade has, interestingly, been bumped up to OU in the 40th most used spot. Not going to bother saying Scizor is the most common Pokemon on the Standard tier usage, because, really, that should go without saying after Platinum. I don't think there are any other changes to OU, so.

I think Alakazam dropping to UU is a mixed blessing. On the one hand, I think he's just a bit too powerful for UU. His movepool is bad and his defenses worse, but he's a sweeper. If you're doing it right, he shouldn't be getting hit, period. Pursuit users destroy him, but they destroy many other things too, yet I don't see Cresselia, Gengar, and Azelf dropping down to UU any time soon. Zam's stats are downright incredible. The only things in the game with higher SpA than him are Ubers, and his speed tops Gengar's without a second thought. I think he'd best be placed in BL, if that.
And on the other hand, I'm planning on building a UU team, and good god can I make this guy work. XD

Thoughts?
 

hobby

Well-Known Member
Interestingly enough, Porygon-Z is still OU, even though I'd suspect Alakazam is much better and more commonly used.

This is fairly easy to explain. Alakazam is completely outclassed by Azelf, while Porygon-Z is fairly unique for all intents and purposes. It gives it a niche to fill to get that little bit of extra use over Zam.

Alakazam may indeed be bumped up to BL, but it has been UU before, so I guess only time will really be able to see where it settles. I do agree that BL is probably going to be it's final resting place.
 

girazard

IT'S A TRAP!!!
More annoying news for this thread: on Smogon, Charizard, Porygon2 and Magmortar have become NU, and Alakazam UU. Umbreon also got moved back down to UU after its brief spell in OU. WTF?

On a positive note though, Roserade got its underrated UU arse bumped up to OU, and Gardevoir to UU!

What does everyone think about Meganium, Cradily and Shuckle being NU? Personally, I think they should all be UU.
 

girazard

IT'S A TRAP!!!
More annoying news for this thread: on Smogon, Charizard, Porygon2 and Magmortar have become NU, and Alakazam UU. Umbreon also got moved back down to UU after its brief spell in OU. WTF?

On a positive note though, Roserade got its underrated UU arse bumped up to OU, and Gardevoir to UU!

What does everyone think about Meganium, Cradily and Shuckle being NU? Personally, I think they should all be UU.
 

clone1

Aesthetics brahz
More annoying news for this thread: on Smogon, Charizard, Porygon2 and Magmortar have become NU, and Alakazam UU. Umbreon also got moved back down to UU after its brief spell in OU. WTF?

On a positive note though, Roserade got its underrated UU arse bumped up to OU, and Gardevoir to UU!

What does everyone think about Meganium, Cradily and Shuckle being NU? Personally, I think they should all be UU.

Meganium, Shuckle, and Cradily are both really good. I can kinda imagine Shuckle being in NU because I've only fought against them, but I have a Meganium and Cradily. They're both awesome.
 

Final

I Submit to No One
More annoying news for this thread: on Smogon, Charizard, Porygon2 and Magmortar have become NU, and Alakazam UU. Umbreon also got moved back down to UU after its brief spell in OU. WTF?

On a positive note though, Roserade got its underrated UU arse bumped up to OU, and Gardevoir to UU!

What does everyone think about Meganium, Cradily and Shuckle being NU? Personally, I think they should all be UU.

Shuckle deserves to be NU because of its terrible HP offsetting its Defenses and for the fact it has some of the worst Attack stats in the game with nothing in its movepool to make up for it. Meganium is really just outclassed by other Grass Types like Venusaur. It is by no means bad. Cradily well, I don't know what to say about that. It should be UU. It is a great wall and has a reliable recovery move. It's typing also isn't too bad.

Charizard's Typing hurts it a lot but it being in NU makes me wonder why Moltres isn't. I guess its superior Special Attack and Defenses help it. Charizard does however have a better movepool. Magmortar, I don't know why it is NU. I guess its Speed lets it down but it has a great movepool and Special Attack. Porygon2, I really don't know why it is down to NU. Last I checked, it was used more than Porygon-Z. Umbreon just can't perform in the standard environment because everything hits harder than ever. It also doesn't have much to hurt the opponent with except the usual Toxic and then there's Heracross who completely counters it. Toxic activates Guts and either of its STAB moves kill it.

Roserade was used a lot so I guess it deserves to be OU. It is a great supporter and Special Attacker. Gardevoir I guess earnt its way back to UU for a good reason.

Also, Alakazam's frailty has finally hurt it. Even Azelf, Gengar and Jolteon are bulkier than it and that's saying something considering their frailty. It may be fast but priority moves put a stop to that. It may have great Special Attack but it is still not able to OHKO or 2HKO everything in the game like Deoxys-A.
 
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Noheart

The Abysswalker
Smeargle has a bigger movepool than Mew, Empoleon's SubPetaya set kicks arse left and right, and Rhyperior is beastly in the sandstorm, also check out his ability.


The only one I feel shouldn't be NU is Cradily, that thing is demon spawn in a well made SS team.


Also, all the priority and pursuiters smacked zam to UU, but I'm sure zam will be really broken in UU, I don't think even Chansey will like a choice spec'd focus blast to the face.
 
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I like Pikachu

Well-Known Member
Guys, i have some news:

1. Charizard and Porygon2 are NU.
2. Aggron, Gardevoir, Drifblim, Magneton are now UU. They used to be NU.
3. Roserade is standard.
4. Umbreon, Rhyperior, and Alakazam were dropped to UU. P.S. Rhyperior sucks:D
5. UU is growing.
 

fschulze47

Mighty Marvo
Unless Alakazam is bumped up to BL, I think Espeon's usage will fall dramatically. The only thing it beats Zam at is baton passing.
 
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