Changes to 4th Gen Competitive Battling NO GARCHOMP DISCUSSION!

[James Bondage]

Okay...Last one for me...Crobat @ OU via Super Fang / Golbat @ UU via Super Fang.

 

[Umbreon-dana]

Lapras seems the more logical choice to get Water Spout than Blastoise methinks.

Blastoise does have those cannons and Wailord has it's blow hole. It makes more sense for them.

Okay...Last one for me...Crobat @ OU via Super Fang / Golbat @ UU for Super Fang.

Not happening, simply not happening. Super Fang is not that great, and Crobat has a huge disadvantage to common OU leads today, having a weakness to Psychic and both of it's STABs are easily walled by Steels. Super Fang is totally useless on it, actually.

 

[James Bondage]

Not happening, simply not happening. Super Fang is not that great, and Crobat has a huge disadvantage to common OU leads today, having a weakness to Psychic and both of it's STABs are easily walled by Steels. Super Fang is totally useless on it, actually.

This one I'd have to get further discussion on...Aside from Dusknoir, it breaks ANY wall that isn't packing Priorty with it's amazing speed. It's only threats to stop it's wall breaking ability are Donphan and Weavile via Ice Shard. Crobat has the Def to survive other Ice Sharders at least one, and Weavile sees little to no play now due to Scizor.

 

[palingensia]

Quite a few walls also pack recovery moves, so unless you can get them down to low enough HP it's a pointless strategy. Unless you can stall them of recovery PP, which would be hard since I'm pretty sure Super Fang has low PP and Crobat does't have Pressure. Mamoswine would absolutely rape it unless Crobat is sashed, in which case you only dent it by 50%.

 

[James Bondage]

Quite a few walls also pack recovery moves, so unless you can get them down to low enough HP it's a pointless strategy. Unless you can stall them of recovery PP, which would be hard since I'm pretty sure Super Fang has low PP and Crobat does't have Pressure. Mamoswine would absolutely rape it unless Crobat is sashed, in which case you only dent it by 50%.

That's what Yache Berry is for.

 

[Umbreon-dana]

Quite a few walls also pack recovery moves, so unless you can get them down to low enough HP it's a pointless strategy. Unless you can stall them of recovery PP, which would be hard since I'm pretty sure Super Fang has low PP and Crobat does't have Pressure. Mamoswine would absolutely rape it unless Crobat is sashed, in which case you only dent it by 50%.

This one I'd have to get further discussion on...Aside from Dusknoir, it breaks ANY wall that isn't packing Priorty with it's amazing speed. It's only threats to stop it's wall breaking ability are Donphan and Weavile via Ice Shard. Crobat has the Def to survive other Ice Sharders at least one, and Weavile sees little to no play now due to Scizor.

Crobat is best and most used as a lead, however, and that's what I'm basing it against. It's not going anywhere.

Some things to consider with Crobat:
-Stealth Rock Weakness
-All common walls today have recovery (Blissey @ Softboiled, Skarmory @ Roost)
- It cannot KO the walls after Super Fang, U-Turn/Roost/Super Fang/Cross Poison or Brave Bird assumed. After that attack, Skarmory can survive both attacks and recover off damage, Blissey will have trouble surviving with SR damage, but it can still wall it if it's on the field before Crobat.

 

[James Bondage]

Crobat is best and most used as a lead, however, and that's what I'm basing it against. It's not going anywhere.

Some things to consider with Crobat:
-Stealth Rock Weakness
-All common walls today have recovery (Blissey @ Softboiled, Skarmory @ Roost)
- It cannot KO the walls after Super Fang, U-Turn/Roost/Super Fang/Cross Poison or Brave Bird assumed. After that attack, Skarmory can survive both attacks and recover off damage, Blissey will have trouble surviving with SR damage, but it can still wall it if it's on the field before Crobat.

Less conventional, and not as a lead, and with or without STAB...T-Wave(or Hypnosis if you're feeling lucky), Mean Look, Super Fang, Brave Bird (or Heat Wave)

 

[Umbreon-dana]

Mean Look serves no purpose whatsoever. You're better off with Super Fang/Status or U-Turn/Brave Bird/Roost.

My points still stand.

 

[BaldWombat]

The moveset that Bat is seeing the most if Super Fang/U-Turn/Taunt/Roost with enough speed to outrun base 125 and the rest in HP and defenses. Walls can longer recover off the SF damage while it gets to U-Turn out to a counter. Partner it with a good strong Pursuit user like CB T-Tar and CB Scizor and you can deal with ghosts quite well. This set will work well with Semi-Stall teams or Bulky Offense teams and will be able to annoy the opponent quite well.

 

[palingensia]

That's what Yache Berry is for.

Even so, it'd be 2HKO'd and do the same 50% to the Mamo.

I'm really interested to see where Gravity will go from here, since it's a tutor now. Also, Head Smash Aggron would be pretty win if you can somehow get around the weakness to everything. :| STAB no recoil Head Smash possibly with Choice Band would kill a lot of things.

...I'm tempted to try it in a Trick Room, actually.

 

[rickyriffle]

I have to say I just received a Crobat with Super Fang.. wow It is awesome..that poor blissey I faced... its HO dropped and Im sure my opp. was like oh hell no....

and I also have a super fang walrein
in hail teams.. instead of being a wall & using toxic.. much faster with super fang...

I cant wait to get HG!

 

[James Bondage]

Even so, it'd be 2HKO'd and do the same 50% to the Mamo.

I'm really interested to see where Gravity will go from here, since it's a tutor now. Also, Head Smash Aggron would be pretty win if you can somehow get around the weakness to everything. :| STAB no recoil Head Smash possibly with Choice Band would kill a lot of things.

...I'm tempted to try it in a Trick Room, actually.

For some insane reason I want to try something out with a String Shot Ninjask. Not competitively, but it could be a fun novelty move.

 

[hobby]

Also, Head Smash Aggron would be pretty win if you can somehow get around the weakness to everything. :| STAB no recoil Head Smash possibly with Choice Band would kill a lot of things.

...I'm tempted to try it in a Trick Room, actually.

You can pretty much only use it in a Trick Room, it is too slow anywhere else, and that coupled with it's huge amount of weaknesses make for a bad combination. It will still be scary if it can land a hit, but nothing outside that.
Blastoise will not be OU, I have been trying to make a set that adequately uses Water Spout and there is really nothing there. It is staying where it is, firmly in UU.
Feraligatr will not get to OU, suer SD Aqua Jet is cool, but it is not enough to really distinguish Gatr in any way. It can hope for top tier UU at best, BL maybe if people are really that scared of it (which I doubt they will be).
Super Fang is a good move on Crobat, for the very reasons listed by BaldWombat on the previous page.

 

[goldfan]

When are you going to use Super Fang? On Blissey as it T-Waves you, surely you're beetter off simply U-turning out straight away to something that can actually put it under pressure. You gain nothing for Super Fang and U-turning out as a wall recovers than you do U-turning out straight away. In fact in some situations U-turning out straight away is preferable, in other it is neutral.

Lol @ Blissey switching into a Crobat BraveBird once, "roflpwnt"

 

[hobby]

Did you actually look at the set, Taunt would restrict the use of Twave anyway, so it would have to run or face the Super Fang. Sure it is not perfect, and nothing more than a novelty, but it is at least a usable novelty.

 

[palingensia]

The problem with BaldWombat's set is it can't do much other than scout with un-STAB'd U-Turn, Taunt, heal itself or Super Fang. It seems like a mash of annoyer, wall-breaker, sweeper and scout all in one, but not a very good one. Being Stealth Rock weak doesn't help the cause.

Just like old times, huh hobby? =P

 

[goldfan]

I'd rather Taunt and U-turn straight off like that than try to hit ~something random~ with Super Fang. In short you don't gain anything, it's Taunt that makes the set, not Super Fang, Super Fang is still effectively a waste of a moveslot.

 

[hobby]

That does not take away from the fact that it can work, which was all I was saying in the first place.

And yes, just like old times Dion.

 

[palingensia]

I completely agree with goldfan, but it can work. I'd label it as a gimmick at best.

 

[goldfan]

Does it count as working if it works worse than the same set without Super Fang, with a better move?