Changes to the TYpe Weakness?

[Dr. Sun]

I admit I'm no Pokemon expert, but I think this is still an interesting idea to consider. I think some types (namely Poison) get royally screwed when it comes to weaknesses, and some other types (namely Fighting) have an overwhelming advantage. So, I was just wondering about possible changes to the way elemental types work in the game, and how they'd affect the in-game pokemon battles. Some of the changes I had in mind were:

Poison

Effective against: Grass, Fighting

Ineffective against: Ghost, Ground, Bug, Poison

Cannot affect: Steel

Water

Effective against: Rock, Ground, Steel, Fire

Ineffective against: Water, Grass, Dragon

Electric

Effective against: Flying, Water, Steel

Ineffective against: Electric, Grass, Dragon

Cannot affect: Ground

Fire

Effective against: Bug, Grass, Ice

Ineffective against: Water, Rock, Fire, Dragon

Fighting

Effective against: Rock, Dark, Normal

Ineffective against: Bug, Psychic, Flying, Poison

Cannof affect: Ghost

Dragon

Effective against: Water, Electric, Dragon

Ineffective against: Steel

------------------------------------------------------

What are my rationales for these changes? I personally think that Electric and Water should be doing more damage against Steel, since metal conducts electricity and rusts when exposed to water, as opposed to melting when exposed to fire-and I can't see the rationale for making Fighting effective against it. Fire and Fighting are the only other elements besides Water and Electric that would do more than half damage to Steel-types, so it evens out.

Poison gets a boost for being strong against a common type, and gets an elemental advantage that isn't totally redundant, when you consider how many other types have a bonus against Grass. As for Dragon, I think it's kind of a waste to have powerful Dragons and Dragon attacks, without any other type they're effective against.

Any thoughts?

 

[O Fortuna]

No.

Firstly, changing the type balance would just confuse things much more than they already are. The games are fine the way they are. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

Secondly, changing the type dynamics in such a way would make it too difficult for backwards compatibility.

Anyway, now to pick apart.

Poison - It makes little sense for Poison to be effective against Fighting. I've heard arguments stating a toxin in a fighter's body would make it weaker and less able to fight but that should be universal against all Pokemon bar Steel and Poison types. The only other type I thought Poison should be strong against is Water because poisons can spread flow through water so quickly, toxifying everything.

Water - Why would Water be strong against Steel? Rust isn't really an issue with Pokemon of the type because they are frequently mobile and they probably aren't subject to a great deal of water abuse really.

Electric - I'll admit it has always seemed a bit strange, Electric not being super effective against Steel. However, it's been this way in GSC and RSEFRLG so I highly doubt it's going to change in the fourth generation.

Fire - I'm quite happy for Fire to remain neutral effective against Rock thank you. As for Steel, why on Earth would Fire not be strong against it? It is a well-known fact that Fire, when hot enough, melts metals so why on Earth would Fire not do that to Steel?

Fighting - Fighting should still be strong against Steel. In fact, out of the four types Fighting is super effective against, Steel makes more sense than Normal or Dark. To be honest, I can find no good reason why it's super effective against those types other than to create a weakness of some sort for Normal and to create a trinity for Dark and Psychic. Y'know, Dark>Psychic>Fighting>Dark>Psychic>Fighting and so on... It makes sense to be strong against Steel for the same reason it is strong against Rock. It is to do with the martial artists who use stones, bricks and sheets of metal in their displays of strength.

Dragon - Well, this one is easy. Dragon was always intended to be some kind of uber typing. Most Dragons are legendary or pseudo-legendary in status and are seen as some sort of ultimate type which explains why the only weaknesses they have are Dragon and Ice. The reason Dragon types are only strong against fellow Dragons is because as the dragons were always intended to be stronger than the other types, it makes sense to limit the damage a STAB attack from them would cause because if it did damage to many types, they balance would be far too skewed.

Like I said before, things are fine the way they are. Plus, real world knowledge doesn't always carry over into these games. For example, pure Water does not conduct electricity. It is the metal impurities in the water (which trust me, there are plenty) such as Iron which conduct the electricity. As I believe Water type Pokemon would likely generate their own water (as would those who aren't water type yet can use Water type attacks) it would most likely be pure, no? In which case the electricity shouldn't conduct. Also, why is Fighting weak against Bug? I'm sure if you were to go Karate Chop a caterpillar, it would die. Games =/= real life.

 

[Volteon]

I agreeded with kinopio, but the only type that I´d like to add resistances is ice, ice just have one, that´s itself. I think that ice should at least resist at water and.... dragon?

 

[Poke Freak]

IMO only one change should be made to the whole type weakness thing, poison should be super effective against water. It makes sence in a way plus the fact that poison is underpowered and I think water types should be slightly downgraded.

Ice should actually stay the way it is, sure it only had 1 resistance and 4 weaknesses, three which metal types have, but then again it sure gets nice stab doesn't it?

 

[magnemiteZ]

okay i agree with you on most things people, but i thing that poison should be more effective against normal types. think of it this way, we as people are the closest things to normal types. ok. we are severely effected by poison and in most cases it kills us so this would be a sensible request.
also i think that fighting should be not very good against fighting, and normal against ice and normal types. this is because even being a fighting trainer myself i cant see any reason that fighting is more effective against these 2 types at all, even though i am not complaining when i come against them.

anyway these are my opinions!!

 

[RaZoR LeAf]

IMO only one change should be made to the whole type weakness thing, poison should be super effective against water. It makes sence in a way plus the fact that poison is underpowered and I think water types should be slightly downgraded.

If you add poison to water it becomes diluted, thereby weakening the strength of it. Poison and Bug should go back to being Super Effective against each other as they were in RBY. It makes sense that Bugs are killed by pesticides, while many bugs also have their own natural poisons, or immunities to poisons.

 

[Dr. Sun]

No.

Firstly, changing the type balance would just confuse things much more than they already are. The games are fine the way they are. If it ain't broke, why fix it?

Secondly, changing the type dynamics in such a way would make it too difficult for backwards compatibility.

Anyway, now to pick apart.

Poison - It makes little sense for Poison to be effective against Fighting. I've heard arguments stating a toxin in a fighter's body would make it weaker and less able to fight but that should be universal against all Pokemon bar Steel and Poison types. The only other type I thought Poison should be strong against is Water because poisons can spread flow through water so quickly, toxifying everything.

Water - Why would Water be strong against Steel? Rust isn't really an issue with Pokemon of the type because they are frequently mobile and they probably aren't subject to a great deal of water abuse really.

Electric - I'll admit it has always seemed a bit strange, Electric not being super effective against Steel. However, it's been this way in GSC and RSEFRLG so I highly doubt it's going to change in the fourth generation.

Fire - I'm quite happy for Fire to remain neutral effective against Rock thank you. As for Steel, why on Earth would Fire not be strong against it? It is a well-known fact that Fire, when hot enough, melts metals so why on Earth would Fire not do that to Steel?

Fighting - Fighting should still be strong against Steel. In fact, out of the four types Fighting is super effective against, Steel makes more sense than Normal or Dark. To be honest, I can find no good reason why it's super effective against those types other than to create a weakness of some sort for Normal and to create a trinity for Dark and Psychic. Y'know, Dark>Psychic>Fighting>Dark>Psychic>Fighting and so on... It makes sense to be strong against Steel for the same reason it is strong against Rock. It is to do with the martial artists who use stones, bricks and sheets of metal in their displays of strength.

Dragon - Well, this one is easy. Dragon was always intended to be some kind of uber typing. Most Dragons are legendary or pseudo-legendary in status and are seen as some sort of ultimate type which explains why the only weaknesses they have are Dragon and Ice. The reason Dragon types are only strong against fellow Dragons is because as the dragons were always intended to be stronger than the other types, it makes sense to limit the damage a STAB attack from them would cause because if it did damage to many types, they balance would be far too skewed.

Like I said before, things are fine the way they are. Plus, real world knowledge doesn't always carry over into these games. For example, pure Water does not conduct electricity. It is the metal impurities in the water (which trust me, there are plenty) such as Iron which conduct the electricity. As I believe Water type Pokemon would likely generate their own water (as would those who aren't water type yet can use Water type attacks) it would most likely be pure, no? In which case the electricity shouldn't conduct. Also, why is Fighting weak against Bug? I'm sure if you were to go Karate Chop a caterpillar, it would die. Games =/= real life.

All fair points. I'll admit my real beef is the idea of Poison attacks getting royally screwed in the game, because they're only effective against Grass, a type that's also nailed by Bug, Fire, Ice, and Flying. Fighting and Fire would still be more effective against Steel than other types, given that they'd have normal effect while just about every other type except Water and Electric would be doing only half damage.

My rationale for Poison builds on yours, about the toxins in a fighter's body. But I think it goes further for Fighters than other pokemon, when you consider that in real-life martial artists and athletes try and maintain healthy diets and stay in tip-top shape. Toxins or poisons in their bodies that weaken them and make them sick weaken their performance, having an extra effect on them the same way it might arguably have the same effect on plants, bugs or water-the effects are somewhat more noticeable.

I just thought the ideas of electricity conduction and rust would do more damage than fire or fighting, given how strong/skilled you'd have to be to smash steel with martial arts, and it'd have to be very hot indeed to melt steel or iron, which is what the Steel-type seems to be based off of. I would assume that the effects on metal of water and electricity would be better-known and easier to pull off than having something hot enough to melt steel.

But if the types never change, why did the designers screw Poison by making Bug-types strong against it, when in RBY they were weak to it? And it should be noted that Fire has always done half damage to Rock-types, as I understand it. It does normal damage against Ground, but Rock resists it.