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Changing of the Guards [UU]

Discussion in 'Older Gen RMT' started by SkyDriver, Feb 22, 2013.

  1. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    Changing of the Guards by The Gaslight Anthem

    Hello people :D

    This time I decdided to play UU for a time. It is centered about two strong fighters: Medicham and Mienshao. It peaked 1224 on PO, which is prettty good for me, considering I'm one of P4L's hax magnets :3 Please help improving :D

    Togekiss (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Serene Grace
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Nasty Plot
    - Roost
    - Air Slash
    - Flamethrower

    Togekiss is the replacement for Snorlax, who didn't do its job too well. Offensive, non paraflinching Togekiss is the new member of the team, with Nasty Plot as an excellent set up move. Air Slash is the STAB move of choice, which still does have a nice flinching chance. Flamethrower is for accurate coverage, while Roost keeps me healthy. Thanks for suggesting this SilverAngel ;)

    Suicune @ Leftovers
    Trait: Pressure
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SDef
    Relaxed Nature (+Def, -Spd)
    - Scald
    - Roar
    - Rest
    - Sleep Talk

    Next up, the physical wall of the team. The event shiny Suicune. Again a ResTalker for the same reason as Snorlax, with pretty much the same moves as well. Scald for STAB and a burn chance, Roar to phaze.

    Azelf @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Levitate
    EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
    Timid Nature (+Spd, -Atk)
    - Trick
    - Stealth Rock
    - PsyShock
    - U-Turn

    Azelf, the SR setter, is not the lead. It mostly comes in to take a poison, Trick the wall to render it useless, TWave it, so the scarf loses effect, set up Stealth Rocks as the opponent switches, Paralyze the new opponent, and , if there is no spinner on the opponents team, explode in its face. If there is a spinner, I prefer to blow up against it, so Rapid Spin wont have its effect, and it'll be taken out next turn. TWave being replaced with PsyShock, to give it more use, besides exploding, as well as taking out Heracross, which are a major threat. U-Turn is added to set up SR more often, when needed, as well as keeping firing of strong PsyShocks.

    Mienshao (M) @ Life Orb
    Trait: Regenerator
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spd
    Naive Nature (+Spd, -SDef)
    - Aura Sphere
    - Swords Dance
    - Hidden Power [Ice]
    - U-Turn

    Here is guard n° 1. Mienshao. Because the Fake Out + U-Turn or scarfed set is so mainstream and expected, I take advantage of the free turn I get, while the opponent switches, to set up a Sub, then Dance as mauch as possible, and choose the right move to take out the enemy. HJK is the most powerful STAB with SE for coverage. This Mienshao now is specially offensive, so it can handle its main counters a lot better. Aura Sphere is the STAB move, with Grass Knot and HP Ice as coverage. U-Turn for scouting and keeping the momentum going. Once again thank you SilverAngel :)

    Weavile (M) @ Focus Sash
    Trait: Pickpocket
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    - Ice Shard
    - Beat Up
    - Ice Punch
    - Low Kick

    Finally, here is the lead of the team. Beat Up Weavile gets rid of most other leads and often gets to take out half a team. SD is to double the attack stat, Beat Up is the primary move to damage the opponent and KO even through Sturdy/Focus Sash/Sub. Ice Punch is good for taking out Tornadus and Dragons, as well as the omnipresent Gligar. Low Kick finally adds coverage and kills Snorlax. Pickpocket is nice for stealing the item of the opponent, who should've KO'ed me, if I didn't have my sash. Ice Shard > SD for revene killing, as well as killing Flygon.

    Medicham (M) @ Choice Scarf
    Trait: Pure Power
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
    - Hi Jump Kick
    - Ice Punch
    - Psycho Cut
    - ThunderPunch

    The second guard Medicham is the revenge killer and late-game sweeper of the team. Because of the Choice Scarf, it outspeeds nearly everything unscarfed. HJK again is the main STAB move, dealing an insane amount of damage. Ice Punch and ThunderPunch give the cool BoltBeam coverage, but physically. Psycho Cut is for a reliable and high-crit ratio secondary STAB move.

    Please rate and comment. I'm open to suggestions, but the guards have to stay. Thank you for reading!
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2013
  2. Dragonicwari

    Dragonicwari Artistically angry

    I'd really like to suggest giving Azelf Psychic/Psyshock over T-wave since most walls aren't fast/ don't care about being fast anyways. The main reason why I am saying this is because Heracross, one of the most used pokemon in the tier (last that I checked) threatens your team. Depending on which set it is changes how threatening it is.

    Scarf Heracross
    Is only really afraid of Azelf exploding on it since just about everything else will be worn down by a couple Close combats/ Mega horns and all you can do is threaten it with a burn from Suicune/ Azelf explosion. I don't know if Medicham can do much to t or if it does much to medicham but most of the things that might threaten Heracross get worn down really fast

    Guts Swords Dance

    Medicham checks him here I think as does Mienshao (unreliably thanks to stone miss) but other than that (once again azelf exploding could be called a check but then you lose out on what he is meant to do) you really have nothing for him
  3. Manectrifier

    Manectrifier AKA Treecko

    Hey cool team you have here. UU is a cool tier, I should play it more :)
    Anyway, I would really watch out for Chandelure and other ghost types. The main problem here is that they can switch in on anticipated HJK's and explosions for free, and then letting you OHKO yourself with your +2 Mienshao HJK fail :/ Also watch out for protect users when you've set up your Mienshao.
    Scarf Chandelure OHKO's Azelf and doesn't mind being tricked (t-wave cripples it though), can clean up a weakened Weavile easily, and beats both your guards with shadow ball. Snorlax's a good counter, but he has no coverage moves, so can't actually hit Chandelure & co, but can only phase them out. Just make sure Snorlax stays alive as long as possible, which is also a hard task with the many fighting types in UU.

    So, I think you could maybe change HJK on Mienshao to Drain Punch or even Low kick. This does trade in a lot of power, but makes it easier to actually sweep after a SD or two.
    a scouting scarf Flygon is dangerous too, u-turning away from everything and even being able to sweep with Suicune gone.

    Having two resttalk sets seems a bit weird to me too. I would consider making the snorlax set either a choice band set with Return, Pursuit (has the benefit of easily disposing of any ghosts bar maybe Cofagrigus), Earthquake and Fire Punch/Crunch, or a chestorest set with the same moves, but rest in the last slot, for when you still want some recovery (Snorlax should really get slack off :()

    Hope this helps and good luck with the team!
  4. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    Thanks for your reply :3 but I haven't seen that many Heracross. The few ones were handled fairly well by Suicune, but without it, it does sweep me. Some fortunately make the mistake of sending them in on full Hp Weavile xD anyway Psyshock seems to work rather welk on Azelf, but TWave also has proven really useful, being able to shut down top-threats like mienshao. I think I'll put it over Explosion instead. Thank you :)

    Thanks for your input guys! I'll start testing this evening :D
  5. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    this is just a minirate, but having two resttallkers is not a good idea. because of sleep clause, only one can be asleep at a time, and that could cost you the match, especially wasting essentially 3 turns minimum just to switch to snorlax/suicune to rest again.
  6. silverangel

    silverangel Metal Fairy

    Ummmmm, no. Sleep Clause only prevents the opponent from making two of your pokemon sleep. However, I do agree that two RestTalkers isn't a good idea, as certain key threats can get rid of them. Also, Choice Scarf Heracross can tear through this team as long as you have no Mienshao.
  7. Klaus™

    Klaus™ Banned

    my mistake. however, its still a bad idea.

    and having both your walls have phazing moves to, "rack up EH damage" is a bad idea, if your only hazard is stealth rock.

    i dont particularly like azelfs set at all. scarf with only one move? not good at all, especially with scarfhera being such a threat. replace thunder wave with psyshock.

    its been a while since ive played uu, lol

    unfortunately i cant really help too much, because i dont know enough anymore, and because the team seems solid enough to changing the pokes would mess synergy.
  8. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    Thanks you for the comments :3 I'll replace TWave with Psyshock.

    Currently testing CurseLax > ResTalk
  9. silverangel

    silverangel Metal Fairy

    Ummmmm, I did say it wasn't a good idea. Either way, now a direct team rate.

    Snorlax- Keep testing the Curselax set

    Suicune- Crocune? This thing screwed me up before (about two years ago) so I think it's good.

    Azelf- complete ****. I know you want to Trick Choice Scarf and follow up with T-Wave, but still, a bad idea. A better Choice Scarf set should have at least one other move. I would've chosen U-Turn over another move, but I don't know which to use. I just saw Psyshock, so that's good.......never mind. You run a Jolly Nature, so I recommend using Zen Headbutt instead of Psyshock to hit off your better physical attack.

    Mienshao- enjoy Golurk walling you. Good thing you have Weavile. Also, Swords Dance Mienshao is nice, but you can't take advantage of the ability you're using as a result. Use Reckless if you intend to stay in and set up. If you want regenerator, then you should be using a scouting set with U-Turn.

    Weavile- I only found Beat Up useful in Smogon Doubles (+6 Terrakion's Rock Slide says hi). As a lead however, it works. Swords Dance? I don't think so, especially when scarfed Flygon can revenge kill you. I would use Ice Shard over Swords Dance, then you become the ultimate Dragon Slayer and you would also have priority on the team.

    Medicham- Cofagrigus walls you no matter what. Here's some calculations.

    Medicham's Hi Jump Kick on 0/0 Cofagrigus: 0 damage
    Thunder Punch on said Cofagrigus: 55-65 damage. 21-25%. Guaranteed 5HKO
    Ice Punch on said Cofagrigus: 55-65 damage. 21-25%. Guaranteed 5HKO
    Psycho Cut on said Cofagrigus: 71-99 damage. 27-38%. Guaranteed 4HKO. 50% chance to 3HKO.

    Now let's see how you fare defensively.
    252+ sp. Atk Cofagrigus's Shadow Ball on Medicham: 186-219 damage. 71-83%. Guaranteed 2HKO.

    In fact, it looks like Cofagrigus can wall the team aside from Snorlax (they wall each other, actually) and Weavile, who's a lead and will likely die or have a weaker Beat Up.

    In the end, I think you should switch Meinshao into a Choice Scarf set (because your Swords Dance set is easily walled or phazed by Nidoqueen, Golurk, Cofagrigus, etc.) and switch Medicham for Swords Dance Bisharp (to kill Cofagrigus). Here is Bisharp's set:

    Bisharp @ Leftovers
    Ability- Defiant
    Adamant Nature. 48 HP, 252 Atk, 208 spd
    Swords Dance
    Sucker Punch
    Night Slash/Pursuit
    Brick Break

    Hope this helps.
  10. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    Hey SilverAngel again. one of the biggest helps to my team :D

    I really wanna keep Mienshao though, but this set looks rather good. 1 thing though: Coffin will survive +2 Night Slash, burn it and Haze boosts away. Maybe Toxic on Shao to take the coffin down?

    Thank you very much, SilverAngel! This certainly did help. I'll update OP tomorrow. Danke schön!
  11. silverangel

    silverangel Metal Fairy

    Togekiss and Calm Mind Meloetta actually wall Cofagrigus, as they're immune to it's STAB and Meloetta can set up Calm Mind in front of it, and Togekiss can set up Nasty Plots. Hidden Power Fighting does next to nothing to them, as they're neutral and have great special defense. They're both normal types, so I wouldn't know who to switch for them, as you have Snorlax as the normal type.

    Calm Mind Mienshao isn't a good idea, as it doesn't have the bulk to tank hits (unlike a certain female dragon...). If you do go special, Aura Sphere, Grass Knot, Hidden Power Ice, and U-Turn would do well, as it can rack up damage and attack on the special side. I'll post recommended set later.

    Yeah, Curselax lost a lot of power over the years. I think Calm Mind Meloetta or Nasty Plot Togekiss should be used over it. I'll post all recommended sets later... If you do use Curselax, EVs should be 188 HP, 104 def, 216 sp. def.

    About Medicham, does it work a lot for you? I'm not sure. It has a lot of power, but it easily taken care of. Prankster Sableye's Will-o-wisp, Froslass (when locked), Cofagrigus, Cresselia, Golurk (when locked), Dusclops. Ghost types are pretty much Medicham's bane, as they are immune to it's stronger STAB and can cripple it with Will-o-wisp. If it doesn't work for you, I can recommend another set for you.

    Meloetta @ Life Orb/Leftovers
    Ability- Serene Grace
    Timid Nature. 252 sp. atk, 252 spd, 4 HP
    Calm Mind
    Shadow Ball
    Focus Blast/Thunderbolt/Grass Knot

    Togekiss @ Life Orb/Leftovers
    Ability- Serene Grace
    Timid Nature. 176 HP, 252 spd, 80 sp. Atk
    Nasty Plot
    Air Slash
    Fire Blast
    Aura Sphere/Roost

    Togekiss and Meloetta have Offensive Calm Mind sets, set up and bash down as many walls as you can. As a result, they are interchangeable, I think.

    Now a special Mienshao should run...

    Mienshao @Life Orb
    Ability- Regenerator
    Naive Nature. 252 sp. Atk, 252 spd, 4 Atk
    Hi Jump Kick/U-Turn/Knock Off
    Hidden Power Ice
    Grass Knot
    Aura Sphere

    Calm Mind isn't as effective, as Mienshao is too frail to take any hits. As a result, Hi Jump Kick or U-Turn replace this move, allowing to to kick down special walls if needed. U-Turn is to scout, of course. The special moves are there because.....you obviously need a special attack of you run a special Mienshao :p. Knock Off can be used as another Physical attack (though weak) to troll Dusclops.
  12. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    Updated OP

    Snorlax -> Togekiss
    Mienshao -> special moveset
    Azelf -> U-Turn + PsyShock added
    Weavile -> Ice Shard > SD

    Thanks to everyone who's helped me so far, I'm on a winning streak again :D
  13. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass


    Some help please. Here are 2 major threats to the team:
    Please tell me how to counter them
  14. Atrocious

    Atrocious Well-Known Member

    What's the point of Swords Dance on a special Mienshao, to power up U-Turn? You basically waste a turn to setup only to U-Turn it away? You can either swap SD for a coverage option or swap Aura Sphere back to HJK which basically 2HKOs the whole tier after a boost. I'd recommend something like Zapdos over Suicune as you lose basically all your momentum with Suicune and can handle Shaymin well as HP Ice doesn't do much with Zapdos' great SpD. If I'm right, you can take a V-Create from Victini as well if it isn't Banded where you can return the KO with Thunderbolt. Basically Physically Defensive Zapdos is probably what you want or something.

    Zapdos @ Leftovers
    Ability: Pressure
    Nature: Bold (+Def, -Atk)
    EVs: 252 HP / 16 Def / 240 Spe
    - Roost
    - Thunderbolt
    - Heat Wave
    - Toxic / Hidden Power Grass

    EVs basically allows you to maximize physical bulk while allowing you to outspeed max speed Heracross that isn't scarfed. You can take out speed EVs for more bulk or boost up Thunderbolt or whatever as you please. Thunderbolt is the basic STAB move, Heat Wave lets you take Heracross and Shaymin and Toxic allows you to break various walls while HP Grass expands your coverage for like Swampert. Roost lets you take more hits.

    EDIT: Banded Victini OHKOs this current set. Zapdos needs 252/252+ defenses in order to survive taking 83-99% dmg from banded V-Create. Max SpD Shaymin avoids 2HKO unless 252/252 Zapdos.
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2013
  15. silverangel

    silverangel Metal Fairy

    Atrocious is right. What's the point of Swords Dance Mienshao? Use Grass Knot over it.

    However, sorry Atrocious, but I don't like that Zapdos countering Victini. For one, it can barely tank a V-Create. I would actually go for Houndoom, whom I think can counter both Victini and Shaymin. Once Houndoom switches in on a predicted Choice-Locked V-Create, he can Pursuit KO Victini. He can also use Fire Blast for Shaymin. However, beware of Earth Power. Mind you, Mienshao should be able to U-Turn and switch into Azelf.

    Houndoom @Life Orb
    Ability- Flash Fire
    Hasty Nature. 252 atk, 4 sp. Atk, 252 spd
    Sucker Punch
    Fire Blast
    Hidden Power Grass

    Sucker Punch and Pursuit play nasty mind games with pokemon weak to dark type attacks. If they choose to attack, they'll get mauled first by Sucker Punch. If they choose to run, they can get nailed by Pursuit. It's a nasty mind game. Fire Blast is for STAB, and Hidden Power Grass hits water types.
  16. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    SD is supposed to be Grass Knott... forgot to change xD
    And thanks for the suggestion, but as SA said, Zapdos can't even switch into a Victini...

    Thanks SilverAngel :3 Houndoom sounds terrific! Imma use Naive > Hasty though, cuz of priority. Now only that Bolt Strike... Victini should be banned from UU...

    Thanks for replying! I'll test Houndoom tomorrow.

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