[CHECK FIRST POST] BW044 - DON Battle! (Part 4 Discussion ONLY)

[Remmie]

Sometimes you need to be pushed a bit to step forward. Iris didn't do a lot for the first 30 episodes, maybe that's why her Pokemons overcomes their issues quickly.

 

[The Great Butler]

I recall someone saying that Axew was going to evolve "soon" because Fraxure was featured on a lunchbox. The person posted that about two months ago, but Axew is still an Axew. I'm just wondering what that person meant when they said "soon". But yeah, this tournament was a great opportunity for several Pokemon to evolve, but it looks like the writers want to keep all the Pokemon in their basic stages. I wonder why.

The lunchbox reflected a number of imminent appearances spread over recent episodes and the movie. I think the only ones that haven't come true yet are Cinccino and Fraxure, and that lunchbox also seems to imply there will either be a Zoroark episode or Luke's Zorua will evolve.

What does that have to do with anything? May and Dawn were shown on-screen battling, losing, and gradually getting stronger.

Misty also started off pretty lackluster as a trainer, and got better at battling as we got into Johto.

Why is Iris getting so good? Excadrill obeys her after one episode, Emonga suddenly does what she wants...

And there you have it. Female characters are only allowed to win if they have a critical chain of losses and failures first.

 

[Almighty Zard]

And there you have it. Female characters are only allowed to win if they have a critical chain of losses and failures first.

My main beef with Iris winning is that if she does, we'll never hear the end of it, her bragging and calling Ash a kid has always gotten on my nerves, I'd rather Ash knock her off the high horse she sits on and make her character develop so she'll get more mature instead of acting like a brat, because at this point it seems that her pokemon can't exactly get more development if they tried what with Emolga and Excadrill suddenly being obediant, and everyone agreeing it's time for Axew to evolve.

 

[playerking]

I am sick of this.

Do you want to know this tournament counts for? Jack Ship!

What's the prize? Is the winnner named the number one Pokemon trainer in the whole Pokemon world? Are they named the king/queen of Unova? Do they get a Golden Globe? No! They get 7 feathers, with one useless one that only serves a purpose to sellers and I doubt we're going to see an episode where Ash goes down a alley in Nimbassa and exchanges the Pretty Wing for rare candies.

BW046: "Black Market in Raimon City! The risky Exchange!" wont be an episode.

This tournament means nothing, if Iris's ends up winning this good for her. If she ties with Ash, that would be good as well. If Iris's decided to collect badges and this was the Unova League, then you should have a reason to complain, but this is just a random tournament hosted by Don George that is just here for trainers to show their skills. It's probably just to test how they battle so far, nothing more. It isn't completely useless, Pokemon have gained moves and Pokemon could continue to do so and some could even evolve. Stop thinking Iris winning this is freaking 2012.

 

[dman_dustin]

And there you have it. Female characters are only allowed to win if they have a critical chain of losses and failures first.

Or you know, don't give a supposedly strong trainer a bunch of problem Pokemon, that conveniently overcome their issues almost immediately, and make said trainer the equivalent to a high level Gym Leader, conveniently making him/her superior to the other members of his/her group.

I like how you're trying to defend Iris, even though she really doesn't deserve it. Honestly I would've rather seen her spam Excadrill, then use a Pokemon who doesn't like battling, and a weak Pokemon that somehow conveniently overcomes it's "immaturity" to become equal amongst her other Pokemon, enough to grant her a pass to the next round.

Meanwhile the actual main character of the entire anime isn't so lucky and actually has to struggle to get on on top (and yet people still ***** that he didn't deserve to get on top when he does) and his Pokemon have to develop at a snail's pace (Unless its name is Oshawott and Pikachu).

 

[The Great Butler]

My main beef with Iris winning is that if she does, we'll never hear the end of it, her bragging and calling Ash a kid has always gotten on my nerves, I'd rather Ash knock her off the high horse she sits on and make her character develop so she'll get more mature instead of acting like a brat, because at this point it seems that her pokemon can't exactly get more development if they tried what with Emolga and Excadrill suddenly being obediant, and everyone agreeing it's time for Axew to evolve.

So the only development she could possibly get is failing and being shown to be inferior to Ash?

Or you know, don't give a supposedly strong trainer a bunch of problem Pokemon, that conveniently overcome their issues almost immediately, and make said trainer the equivalent to a high level Gym Leader, conveniently making him/her superior to the other members of his/her group.

Someone didn't play White. You don't want a character based on a game character to actually be similar to the source?

I like how you're trying to defend Iris, even though she really doesn't deserve it.

And who made you the judge of that?

You just don't like it because you don't like Iris and can't comprehend that a character you dislike could succeed. You feel compelled to force everybody else to hate her because you do.

Meanwhile the actual main character of the entire anime isn't so lucky and actually has to struggle to get on on top (and yet people still ***** that he didn't deserve to get on top when he does) and his Pokemon have to develop at a snail's pace (Unless its name is Oshawott and Pikachu).

Good job shooting your own argument in the foot. He doesn't deserve to win right now because he hasn't actually done much work at all. Even Iris at least trained Excadrill, while Ash only trained Oshawott and even then barely at all. He's relying almost completely on unevolved Pokemon with little training. That's why he loses.

 

[Almighty Zard]

So the only development she could possibly get is failing and being shown to be inferior to Ash?

You don't think her calling him a child constantly isn't immature? her pokemon are developed fine though I can see where people are coming from on these "suddenly obeying" issues with Emolga and Excadrill.

You say Ash needs to improve his pokemon, well Iris needs to improve her character, and acting like an uppty know it all brat doesn't help that.

 

[The Great Butler]

You don't think her calling him a child constantly isn't immature? her pokemon are developed fine though I can see where people are coming from on these "suddenly obeying" issues with Emolga and Excadrill.

You say Ash needs to improve his pokemon, well Iris needs to improve her character, and acting like an uppty know it all brat doesn't help that.

Oh how dare she have a personality that is something other than submissive and spineless.

After May, who actually was close to being a Mary Sue with how few shortcomings she had, and Dawn, who did nothing but whine all the time, it's refreshing to have a sidekick who actually is arrogantly assertive more often than needed.

 

[dman_dustin]

Someone didn't play White. You don't want a character based on a game character to actually be similar to the source?

Or you know they could've made her Pokemon competent to begin with instead of giving them problems that they were never going to develop over a period of episodes, making her growth realistic.

You just don't like it because you don't like Iris and can't comprehend that a character you dislike could succeed. You feel compelled to force everybody else to hate her because you do.

Or you know I just don't like people accepting the fact that a character has no flaws, and if said person has problems they overcome them easily and said people act as if its the most unique thing in the world and acceptable.

Oh yes, let's go ahead and argue that Iris is her own character, that gives the writers the green light to glorify her every chance they get by quickly solving the problems they gave her in the first place.

Good job shooting your own argument in the foot. He doesn't deserve to win right now because he hasn't actually done much work at all. Even Iris at least trained Excadrill, while Ash only trained Oshawott and even then barely at all. He's relying almost completely on unevolved Pokemon with little training. That's why he loses.

I like how you implied Iris deserves to win more so than Ash......you know despite Iris doing less than Ash in the way of developing their Pokemon.

Ash trained Oshawott and Tepig, and trained Scraggy at the same level as Iris training Axew.

While Iris apologized to Excadrill it obeyed her. Emolga not liking battles and yet she wins two rounds in the Don Battle tournament for whatever reason, which would make things worse if Emolga's Volt Switch disqualified Kenyan instead of actually defeating Sawk (which would be B.S. in the first place since a Pokemon shouldn't be allowed to disqualify an opponent even if they have no concept of what happened with volt switch), and apparently Iris wins using her weakest Pokemon, which is apparently is as strong as any Pokemon now.

Oooh, yes, let's just accept Iris, for being such a godly, unbeatable, powerful trainer with no flaws or faults. Most Unique Character award, I nominate Iris.

Oh but Ash, no, no, no, he must be treated like crap, and inferior to Iris because he isn't godly, unbeatable, with no flaws or faults. He can afford to be treated like crap, because his skill has to be developed slowly and realistically.

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

Yeah, to be quite honest, they are seemingly solving Iris's Pokemon's problems entirely too quickly. Iris Excadrill obeys her after in one episode of major development, Emonga is now magically obeying her, and Axew is now able to take out tournament used Pokemon. I understand they wan her to fight Ash, and at this point probably win...but it feels kinda, I dunno forced? I think they need to slow it down a bit, even if she's suppose to be the 8th gym leader later on.

Oh geese, I am still hopping Ash wins this thing. I agree with some of the others here in saying at least if Ash wins it'd have kick Iris ego down a bit. I agree with you, why are they suddenly just doing this with her Pokemon? This is another reason why I hope Iris looses, this way it doesn't make her too powerful and show that she still needs to work on her Pokemon. Ash winning this tournament, she'd stop calling him a kid and people would respect him, he'd get new rivals and show us that hes getting better as the series moves on. With Iris, again what would she gain out of this? Besides showing us that she randomly had her Pokemon get better and start to litsen off screen. None of this will prove that shes a better trainer, I have no idea what it would prove for her character if she won.

 

[Blue Saturday]

Iris doesn't use Doryuuzu to advance far into the tournament and people *****. What the Johto. I don't understand the obsession ppl have with Satoshi winning everything. He'll win badges and Iris hasn't gotten chance to actually battle. Iris can't do anything without someone *****ing can she?

I'm just glad she hasn't used Doryuuzu yet, so people have shut the **** up about her using it to advance far in the tourney.

 

[Almighty Zard]

Iris doesn't use Doryuuzu to advance far into the tournament and people *****.

The fandom is never satisfied that's for sure.

I don't understand the obsession ppl have with Satoshi winning everything. He'll win badges and Iris hasn't gotten chance to actually battle. Iris can't do anything without someone *****ing can she?

For me it's not about her pokemon that is the problem, it's her attitude.

Overall this discussion needs to end, it's just going to spam this thread even worse than it has become if it continues on.

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

HAHA Ok Yah it should end, I can't wait to see the reaction of the fans if she does win though. You think its bad now, just wait when its all over oh man it will be worse than when Aipom got traded to Dawn and than got left behind for no reason. Pokemon people really wrote themselves into a corner with this one.

 

[Almighty Zard]

the final thing i'll say for now is Sawk better kick some arse, and if Palpitoad and Excadrill fight, the sunglasses croc better pop up and get blasted by them out of there, so we have Clay's team show up at once^_^

 

[The Great Butler]

For me it's not about her pokemon that is the problem, it's her attitude.

If she begged Ash to help her train Emolga, and then began kissing his feet every chance she got in gratitude for it (effectively erasing what her character actually is) then would you be satisfied?

 

[Janovy]

I will just say that whoever thinks Iris has no flaws is clearly a stupid person or has never watched BW before.

 

[dman_dustin]

If she begged Ash to help her train Emolga, and then began kissing his feet every chance she got in gratitude for it (effectively erasing what her character actually is) then would you be satisfied?

Or maybe Iris can actually acknowledge that Emolga has a problem and try to fix it herself over at least a period of 2-3 episodes instead of having the writers sweep it under the rug like it never happened.

 

[Janovy]

Or maybe Iris can actually acknowledge that Emolga has a problem and try to fix it herself over at least a period of 2-3 episodes instead of having the writers sweep it under the rug like it never happened.

Emolga =/= Doryuuzu/Charizard/Mamoswine

There are no real issues. She battles when she wants, she wanted to battle in round one against some hilarious guy in a suit. Her Attract worked and she won easily. The only real problem Iris has with Emogla is the Volt Switch attack which is getting solved in the next episode. Emolga may still remain a diva, but that doesn't mean she won't listen to Iris all the time.

Basically, you guys are running out of arguments so you're pulling that stupid Iris is a Mary Sue crap in order to justify your opinion.

Or maybe Iris can actually acknowledge that Emolga has a problem and try to fix it herself over at least a period of 2-3 episodes instead of having the writers sweep it under the rug like it never happened.

Rewatch the episode 9 when Cilan suggested Iris to take her time to solve the problems with her Pokémon. Emolga problem wasn't "swept", check my post above.

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

Emolga =/= Doryuuzu/Charizard/Mamoswine

There are no real issues. She battles when she wants, she wanted to battle in round one against some hilarious guy in a suit. Her Attract worked and she won easily. The only real problem Iris has with Emogla is the Volt Switch attack which is getting solved in the next episode. Emolga may still remain a diva, but that doesn't mean she won't listen to Iris all the time.

Basically, you guys are running out of arguments so you're pulling that stupid Iris is a Mary Sue crap in order to justify your opinion.

Please, don't compare the thing to Charizard at all, didn't you see Orange Islands? We had an entire episode for a reason why it started to litsen to Ash. We saw what he thought of Ash from Kanto to than. What happened to Iris here is that it was off screen, they could have at least shown why it decided to change and litsen to her. Right now, its like what?? I'll stop with the Mary Sue stuff, I see now she clearly has flaws but how shes being delt with in the tournament is horrible least in my opinion. Plus again, its first tournament and shes had little experience with this I don't know its just odd. I would have had her loose in the semi finals if any thing, since we can't have that than her loosing in the finals would be fine by me. Well, any ways I'll stop with this, no point in arguing. Will see what happens in the finals, again hopefully Ash wins.

 

[Janovy]

What's so so horrible about he fact she has competent Pokémon?

- Axew can battle.
- Emonga can battle when she wants to.
- Excadrill can battle.

Emonga randomly wanted to battle in round one which is why she won.

Please, don't compare the thing to Charizard at all, didn't you see Orange Islands? We had an entire episode for a reason why it started to litsen to Ash. We saw what he thought of Ash from Kanto to than. What happened to Iris here is that it was off screen, they could have at least shown why it decided to change and litsen to her. Right now, its like what?? I'll stop with the Mary Sue stuff, I see now she clearly has flaws but how shes being delt with in the tournament is horrible least in my opinion. Plus again, its first tournament and shes had little experience with this I don't know its just odd. I would have had her loose in the semi finals if any thing, since we can't have that than her loosing in the finals would be fine by me. Well, any ways I'll stop with this, no point in arguing. Will see what happens in the finals, again hopefully Ash wins.

That is exactly my point. Emonga doesn't need entire episodes to solve her problems. She listens to Iris sometimes, she's not always disobedient.