[CHECK FIRST POST] BW044 - DON Battle! (Part 4 Discussion ONLY)

[Joltik-Kid]

It's just like if Ash were to battle Luke's Ghost/Ground Pokemon, Iron tail would be the only effective move, and it would be resistant, that's even a worse match up, but unless Pikachu stops learning NEW electric moves, and actually gives Pikachu something that can hurt ghost/ground Pokemon, and replace iron tail with a fighting move (since fighting covers what steel is super effective and more) then Pikachu really is screwed against certain Pokemon types.

I hope you know just having a fighting move replace Iron Tail would screw Pikachu against Golett...
Now, I always though that if Pikachu wanted to take care of Ground, Rock and Steel Pokemon at the same time, he should learn Grass Knot and Brick Break, replacing Iron Tail and Quick Attack, giving him more options in battle and a well versatile move set. Will this happen, nope. Why, because the writers love making Pikachu the underdog and even with a severe type disadvantaged, make it win and come out on top like a champion

 

[dman_dustin]

I hope you know just having a fighting move replace Iron Tail would screw Pikachu against Golett...

What I said was instead of giving Pikachu new electric moves (I.E. Electro Ball) give Pikachu something effective against a ghost/ground (I guess a grass type could work).

And then replace Iron tail with a fighting move. Since Fighting types cover steel's strengths and some more. I don't know why they didn't give Pikachu a specialized Brick Break (that uses its tail even though the description of the move mentions hands) in 3rd gen instead of what they did give Pikachu (a 2nd gen move).

But a fighting type would be helpful against Excadrill however, maybe not the robot golem thing but Excadrill definitely.

Why, because the writers love making Pikachu the underdog and even with a severe type disadvantaged, make it win and come out on top like a champion

They still should give it moves that make it neutral or maybe resistant to all types, rather than having three moves that some Pokemon have immunities too.

 

[Ash6K]

I don't see why people need to question a potential Pikachu vs. Excadrill when we're currently watching Snivy vs. Pawniard. All of Snivy's attacks are at a disadvantage against Pawniard. Sure Snivy isn't weak to steel moves like Pikachu is to ground moves but at the same time, there have been plenty of times a pokemon can overcome being hit by an attack they're supposed to be weak against. Ash is the guy that used Oshawott against Pansage, Swadloon and Pikachu (and not Tranquill) in the bug gym, Snivy vs. Pignite, and Oshawott vs. Blitzle. This isn't something the writers haven't done before.

 

[dman_dustin]

I don't see why people need to question a potential Pikachu vs. Excadrill when we're currently watching Snivy vs. Pawniard. All of Snivy's attacks are at a disadvantage against Pawniard. Sure Snivy isn't weak to steel moves like Pikachu is to ground moves but at the same time, there have been plenty of times a pokemon can overcome being hit by an attack they're supposed to be weak against. Ash is the guy that used Oshawott against Pansage, Swadloon and Pikachu (and not Tranquill) in the bug gym, Snivy vs. Pignite, and Oshawott vs. Blitzle. This isn't something the writers haven't done before.

There's a difference, Pawniard isn't immune to any of Snivy's attacks (unless you include attract).

Pikachu only has TWO moves that can hurt Excadrill, Iron Tail and Quick attack. And those two moves don't open a lot of possibilities for Ash at all. Excadrill could easily swat Pikachu away if it tried using Iron tail and quick attack probably would (anime realistically speaking) should hurt Pikachu more than Excadrill.

Let's face it Snivy does have a better shot at beating a Pawniard than Pikachu does beating Excadrill. I mean look at what Snivy can do. Snivy's Vine whip can immobilize its opponent (if Snivy is strong enough), Leaf Blade acts a lot like iron tail. And Snivy has Leaf Storm.

No matter how you try to argue, Snivy just has more options than Pikachu does. Sure Pikachu could still use Thunderbolt and Electroball in doing indirect damage or as a defense but otherwise Snivy just has a better shot.

 

[WaterShuriken]

I always wanted Pikachu to learn Grass Knot in DP but he never did.

 

[Sushi]

To put an end to the Scalchop discussion (where the hell did it come from, anyways?): Hotachi is a portmanteau of hotate (scallop) and tachi (sword). Back when the English name of Oshawott's weapon hadn't been revealed yet, creating a portmanteau with the two English words was the obvious solution. I hope that clears it up.

Moving on... Doesn't look like they'll ever update the little "Other upcoming episodes" section on the website again, does it? Shame :/

I think I'd be fine with anything, outcome-wise and Pokémon-wise, though it'd be great if Ash and Iris let their electric rodents sit this one out. Snivy VS Excadrill would be interesting.

 

[Joltik-Kid]

What I said was instead of giving Pikachu new electric moves (I.E. Electro Ball) give Pikachu something effective against a ghost/ground (I guess a grass type could work).

And then replace Iron tail with a fighting move. Since Fighting types cover steel's strengths and some more. I don't know why they didn't give Pikachu a specialized Brick Break (that uses its tail even though the description of the move mentions hands) in 3rd gen instead of what they did give Pikachu (a 2nd gen move).

But a fighting type would be helpful against Excadrill however, maybe not the robot golem thing but Excadrill definitely.

They still should give it moves that make it neutral or maybe resistant to all types, rather than having three moves that some Pokemon have immunities too.

This is why I stated in my post that Pikachu should actually have Thunderbolt, Electro Ball, Brick Break and Grass Knot(plus if you look at it, Pikachu would have had a new move introduced each region)

 

[WaterShuriken]

Quick Attack, Iron Tail, Thunderbolt and Grass Knot would have been fine but oh well.

I hope Ash faces Antonio instead of Dino. I guess its only cause I prefer Antonio's name more.

 

[dman_dustin]

To put an end to the Scalchop discussion (where the hell did it come from, anyways?)

It was brought up when someone thought that "Dino" was just a fan translation (I guess that's what was being discussed) and used "Scallsword" as an example.

Hotachi is a portmanteau of hotate (scallop) and tachi (sword). Back when the English name of Oshawott's weapon hadn't been revealed yet, creating a portmanteau with the two English words was the obvious solution. I hope that clears it up.

So I guess I was technically right. Hotachi does "translate" into "Scallsword" or at the very least I wasn't entirely wrong.

Moving on... Doesn't look like they'll ever update the little "Other upcoming episodes" section on the website again, does it? Shame :/

No, I don't remember seeing have anything except prior to the Earthquake. I don't think TV Tokyo wants to take the chance something will happen, that'll "postpone" even more episodes. It's a shame, I agree, but it's not like they kept it updated often anyway.

 

[ijea4444]

There's a difference, Pawniard isn't immune to any of Snivy's attacks (unless you include attract).

Pikachu only has TWO moves that can hurt Excadrill, Iron Tail and Quick attack. And those two moves don't open a lot of possibilities for Ash at all. Excadrill could easily swat Pikachu away if it tried using Iron tail and quick attack probably would (anime realistically speaking) should hurt Pikachu more than Excadrill.

Let's face it Snivy does have a better shot at beating a Pawniard than Pikachu does beating Excadrill. I mean look at what Snivy can do. Snivy's Vine whip can immobilize its opponent (if Snivy is strong enough), Leaf Blade acts a lot like iron tail. And Snivy has Leaf Storm.

No matter how you try to argue, Snivy just has more options than Pikachu does. Sure Pikachu could still use Thunderbolt and Electroball in doing indirect damage or as a defense but otherwise Snivy just has a better shot.

Hasn't tackle been used plenty to beat rock types? Even if pikachu is using iron tail non-stop with some kinda of "electrify the field and indirectly use electric attacks to beat'em" on the side, i don't care. Promotion-wise there aren't very much moves for pikachu to use. This is the anime not the games coverage isn't necessarily a necessity, don't worry about it.

 

[Ash6K]

No matter how you try to argue, Snivy just has more options than Pikachu does. Sure Pikachu could still use Thunderbolt and Electroball in doing indirect damage or as a defense but otherwise Snivy just has a better shot.

But to be fair to Pikachu, his opponent (assuming it's Excadrill) doesn't seem to be as fast as Snivy's opponent so that's something Pikachu has got going for him too. It's a different situation but the point is, even if Pikachu is at a disadvantage (against anyone), it has a chance to win. No matter what, cheap or not cheap, it's what the writers have done and will always do. I'm just saying seeing a potential Pikachu vs. Excadrill battle in the tournament is not something to get riled up on because we've seen it before and we'll continue seeing type mismatches in the future.

 

[XXD17]

There's a difference, Pawniard isn't immune to any of Snivy's attacks (unless you include attract).

Pikachu only has TWO moves that can hurt Excadrill, Iron Tail and Quick attack. And those two moves don't open a lot of possibilities for Ash at all. Excadrill could easily swat Pikachu away if it tried using Iron tail and quick attack probably would (anime realistically speaking) should hurt Pikachu more than Excadrill.

Let's face it Snivy does have a better shot at beating a Pawniard than Pikachu does beating Excadrill. I mean look at what Snivy can do. Snivy's Vine whip can immobilize its opponent (if Snivy is strong enough), Leaf Blade acts a lot like iron tail. And Snivy has Leaf Storm.

No matter how you try to argue, Snivy just has more options than Pikachu does. Sure Pikachu could still use Thunderbolt and Electroball in doing indirect damage or as a defense but otherwise Snivy just has a better shot.

I think a lot of people already suggested this but remeber in the ducklett episode where pikachu was battling krokorok? krokorok fired stone-edges at pikachu who repelled it back with electroball (a move that would have no effect on krokorok) causing it to take damage and blast off...maybe pikacu can use electroball to send back excadrill's focus blast or to throw him off direction when he's using drill run...of course this is all assuming that pikachu will even face excadrill...

 

[dman_dustin]

Hasn't tackle been used plenty to beat rock types?

Maybe as a finisher but only when other moves have been used. Besides Excadrill isn't a rock type, otherwise Pikachu would have an advantage with Iron tail. But Excadrill is ground/steel Pokemon, even if Pikachu spams Iron tail and quick attack, it still should do so little damage to make a difference in the long run. Since Pikachu shouldn't be able to handle drill run and dig, and focus blast does full damage.

I guess we can compare Excadrill with a Pokemon with the same type: Steelix. Pikachu has never been able to beat a Steelix, Onix yes, Steelix no. Morrison's Steelix "killed" Pikachu because it was stronger, and resisted Pikachu's moves, Iron tail vs Iron tail (Steelix won), now Excadrill as far as I can recall can't learn Iron tail, but it does know metal claw, Excadrill should be stronger than Pikachu thus Metal Claw should be able to counter Pikachu's Iron tail if he used it. And Quick attack, might give Pikachu speed, but I don't know useful it will be to Excadrill since Excadrill probably wouldn't take much damage to it.

But to be fair to Pikachu, his opponent (assuming it's Excadrill) doesn't seem to be as fast as Snivy's opponent so that's something Pikachu has got going for him too.

I don't know about that because it doesn't take a lot of running speed to have good reflexes, and Excadrill has been shown to be pretty fast, it probably wouldn't take much effort for Excadrill to counter Pikachu's moves.

It's a different situation but the point is, even if Pikachu is at a disadvantage (against anyone), it has a chance to win,

Of course Pikachu would win, that's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is Pikachu shouldn't beat Excadrill just because the writers are trolls and want to make impossible match ups. If Pikachu had at least one move that did full damage to Excadrill, then maybe Pikachu would have a better chance.

But if the writers want the battle to look realistic, Excadrill should win since it completely outclasses Pikachu. And like I said, Snivy and Palpitoad would make a lot more sense if they really wanted Ash to win.

The only reason why the writers would have Pikachu win, is to make some B.S. excuse to keep using it when it isn't needed (Pikachu beat Excadrill, it should totally be used against Swoobat over Roggenrola/Boldore), giving Ash's other Pokemon the short end of the stick.

I think a lot of people already suggested this but remeber in the ducklett episode where pikachu was battling krokorok? krokorok fired stone-edges at pikachu who repelled it back with electroball (a move that would have no effect on krokorok) causing it to take damage and blast off...maybe pikacu can use electroball to send back excadrill's focus blast or to throw him off direction when he's using drill run...of course this is all assuming that pikachu will even face excadrill...

I've said that previously. But Iris wouldn't be stupid to fall for it twice, and I'd find it hard to believe, that one focus blast would finish Excadrill off even if it was in the last leg of the battle. But it makes it a bit more believable.

 

[SlimKennedy]

Or Ash could just not battle Excadrill with Pikachu. Unless the pokemon being used for the final round have been confirmed, I think Palpitoad would be a much better choice. It has a type advantage against 2/3 of Iris' pokemon. It would seem like a no brainer. Then again, the writers do love that little rat. (Sorry to hate. I really do like Pikachu, I just don't want to see it hog the spotlight here.)

 

[Brandon00151]

If Ash Wins 1 vs 1

Palpitoad vs Excadrill Palpitoad

1 vs 1 alt Snivy vs Emolga Snivy

3 vs 3

Pikachu vs Excadrill Excadrill
Snivy vs Excadrill Snivy
Snivy vs Emolga Draw
Palpitoad vs Axew Palpitoad

If Iris won 1 vs 1

Excadrill vs Pikachu Excadrill

alt

Axew vs Pikachu Axew with the surprise upset


3 vs 3

Axew vs Pikachu Pikachu
Emolga vs Pikachu Emoga with attract and hidden power
Snivy vs Emolga Draw
Excadrill vs Palpitoad Excarill overcomes his weakness and beats the Water/Ground type frog

 

[Ash6K]

I don't know about that because it doesn't take a lot of running speed to have good reflexes, and Excadrill has been shown to be pretty fast, it probably wouldn't take much effort for Excadrill to counter Pikachu's moves.

But at the same time, Excadrill's moves won't connect if Pikachu uses Quick Attack to dodge. So if Pikachu can't be hit and uses Quick Attack/Iron Tail and uses electric defenses, then really, it's not that bad.

Of course Pikachu would win, that's not what I'm saying, what I'm saying is Pikachu shouldn't beat Excadrill just because the writers are trolls and want to make impossible match ups. If Pikachu had at least one move that did full damage to Excadrill, then maybe Pikachu would have a better chance.

But if the writers want the battle to look realistic, Excadrill should win since it completely outclasses Pikachu. And like I said, Snivy and Palpitoad would make a lot more sense if they really wanted Ash to win.

But that's the thing in the anime, it's not just the type advantages. Excadrill should win because it's stronger due to type but think about the battle itself. Pikachu can dodge attacks using Quick Attack, it can use its electric moves as distractions, then it can strike. Pikachu's Iron Tail can also deflect Focus Blast back at Excadrill and that would be super effective (as mentioned before), and there's other factors that could happen as well that could lean towards Ash's favor. Drill Run could miss and Excadrill could crash into the wall and that could hurt it in battle. Dig could miss which gives Pikachu a free hit. It's not impossible. Besides look at Electivire vs. Gliscor. Gliscor lost even though ALL of Electivire's moves he used in the Paul battle were weak towards Gliscor (two electric moves, a fighting move, and Protect). Yes, Gliscor was already weak from past battles but Paul still thought up of a strategy that can work. So if Ash does the same, it should be okay and it shouldn't be a huge deal because stuff like this has happened before. While it may be potential to be cheap, there's also a chance it could look realistic and work out well so I don't think it's a big concern if this should happen.

The only reason why the writers would have Pikachu win, is to make some B.S. excuse to keep using it when it isn't needed (Pikachu beat Excadrill, it should totally be used against Swoobat over Roggenrola/Boldore), giving Ash's other Pokemon the short end of the stick.

What? I don't think the writers see it like that. They also might see it as, Pikachu won against Excadrill, it's time for another pokemon to get the spotlight. Let's be honest here, there are also those times when Pikachu loses to a pokemon it has an advantage so that other pokemon can look better (the first gym for instance). A potential battle between Pikachu and Excadrill isn't going to define future battles like what you're suggesting. It all depends on the moment.

We'll just have to wait and see which pokemon Ash and Iris are using. We might not even have to worry about this situation. But I'm just saying, if it's the case, it shouldn't be a huge deal.

 

[I-am-the-peel]

This is why I stated in my post that Pikachu should actually have Thunderbolt, Electro Ball, Brick Break and Grass Knot(plus if you look at it, Pikachu would have had a new move introduced each region)

That set would be fantastic but I just can't see it. Thunderbolt and Quick Attack have been on the moveslot since the indigo league. Grass knot would have been nice as well as brick break but it is not likely. Perhaps when the third game comes with some cool move tutors, Pikachu can learn one of those moves similar to Buizel?

 

[BlueDragonfangirl]

Theres still another round which Ash battles, he could use Pikachu than and allow some one else to fight in the finals.

 

[Blackjack the Titan]

If Ash Wins 1 vs 1

Palpitoad vs Excadrill Palpitoad

1 vs 1 alt Snivy vs Emolga Snivy

3 vs 3

Pikachu vs Excadrill Excadrill
Snivy vs Excadrill Snivy
Snivy vs Emolga Draw
Palpitoad vs Axew Palpitoad

If Iris won 1 vs 1

Excadrill vs Pikachu Excadrill

alt

Axew vs Pikachu Axew with the surprise upset


3 vs 3

Axew vs Pikachu Pikachu
Emolga vs Pikachu Emoga with attract and hidden power
Snivy vs Emolga Draw
Excadrill vs Palpitoad Excarill overcomes his weakness and beats the Water/Ground type frog

Actually I see Snivy winning against Emolga rather than the battle being a draw. Just because their Attracts would cancel out, it doesn't mean that all their attacks would cancel out (Attract shouldn't even work).

 

[I-am-the-peel]

Actually I see Snivy winning against Emolga rather than the battle being a draw. Just because their Attracts would cancel out, it doesn't mean that all their attacks would cancel out (Attract shouldn't even work).

Let's see what moves they have:
Snivy Emolga
Attract - Attract
Vine Whip - Hidden Power
Leaf Blade - Discharge
Leaf Storm - Volt Switch
Snivy counters most of emolga's moves unless hidden power is fire or ice.
Snivy's moves generally have more power. Unless the writers have an idea for the plot, snivy will most likely beat emolga.