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Cilan and the Case of the Purrloin Witness! (786)

naughtynun

Well-Known Member
I know gym battles etc. are more important than random battles and I know all too well that the writers are heavily biased towards Pikachu, but that doesn't make it any better. I just feel this was a total waste of an episode.

-The majority of Ash's team can still evolve, and yet none did.
-The majority of Ash's team have terrible movesets, and yet none learned a new move.
-Most of Ash's team has shockingly bad screentime, and yet none appeared other than the one with the most screentime of any Pokemon, ever.
-There are 4646646446 old Pokemon rotting at Oak's lab a few of which usually appear during filler saga's, many need appearances, like Kingler who hasn't battled since mid-Johto, and yet none appeared and none look likely to.
-There are several poorly-developed human characters, Trip, Burgundy, Georgia and older ones that could return for an episode, but none did.
-There are a good number of un-debuted Pokemon and yet none appeared.

What did happen?
-Pikachu got yet another battle.
-Cilan's same old Brock-stale comic relief routine.
- Axew 'battled' and showed it had learned squat and developed nil. That thing would have a hard job beating a magikarp.

Is this show perfect? Clearly not. So until it is, there is no excuse to do nothing whatsoever with episode after episode for no reason other than pure laziness. There are lots of improvements to be made and development to be had but they do nothing. Lets not pretend they don't have time, the writers just can't be bothered to write.

People slag off the kanto saga but at least they didn't have thoroughly pointless tat so often.
 
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WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
The problem I have with Axew is not the fact he's battling, it's the fact that he lost and doesn't seem like it's going to do much in Iris training it. It's the same thing as Oshawott, but that's another topic. I want to know what Cilan said at the end that surprised Ash and Iris. Watch it be that he forgot why he dislikes Puurloin so much. People complain that it's been too long that they haven't said that reason but if I remember correctly, it took even longer to find out why Dawn was called Pikari/Dee Dee. That reason was very dumb.
 

Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
The problem I have with Axew is not the fact he's battling, it's the fact that he lost and doesn't seem like it's going to do much in Iris training it.
I think it became obvious that the writers weren't going to do much with Axew as of the Donamite, when Iris opted to use Excadrill instead of taking the Ash route, using her weakest Pokemon. Dragonite just sealed the deal. It's kinda just a hair accessory at this point.

If they were going to have another tournament, I don't see why they couldn't just have one last Don Battle. Georgia could have easily been in that thief's place for example. Instead we got one, with the same number of contestants...smashed into the first 12 minutes of an episode.
 
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Joltik-Kid

Meh ಠ_ಠ
I think it became obvious that the writers weren't going to do much with Axew as of the Donamite, when Iris opted to use Excadrill instead of taking the Ash route, using her weakest Pokemon. Dragonite just sealed the deal. It's kinda just a hair accessory at this point.

If they were going to have another tournament, I don't see why they couldn't just have one last Don Battle. Georgia could have easily been in that thief's place for example. Instead we got one, with the same number of contestants...smashed into the first 12 minutes of an episode.
It wasn't really in Ash's favor, it was a Fighting tournament and Scraggy was a Fighting type, thus he opted to follow the standards.
 

Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
It wasn't really in Ash's favor, it was a Fighting tournament and Scraggy was a Fighting type, thus he opted to follow the standards.
What I'm saying is, even though it was a fighting tournament...there were still other types of Pokemon there. There was a Druddigon for instance. The writers could have easily had Iris use Axew there if they were actually serious about her training it.
 

Lorde

Banned
If you re-read the post you'll see I said this SAGA, given the number of episode Oshawott is likely to be in.
Unless you have proof that Oshawott will be in every DA episode, which already seems unlikely given that he wasn't used in this one, I don't really know how he's being "spammed."

Axew battling is a win in my book. The little guy is trying his best so cut him some slack :'(
I want Axew to develop, but if he couldn't even beat a tiny little Vanillite, then I'm worried about his future. He has potential, but I don't think he's tapping into it. :(
 

jrizza88

Meteorite
I think that Vanillite was supposed to be considered very strong, but I guess it kind of makes me wonder if Axew will even stand a chance against Beartic if Iris EVER fights Georgia again.
 

WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
I think that Vanillite was supposed to be considered very strong, but I guess it kind of makes me wonder if Axew will even stand a chance against Beartic if Iris EVER fights Georgia again.
Don't worry, she'll just use Dragonite (a fully-evolved caught Pokemon) to prove how much training she's done in her journey with Axew.
 

naughtynun

Well-Known Member
Unless you have proof that Oshawott will be in every DA episode, which already seems unlikely given that he wasn't used in this one, I don't really know how he's being "spammed."
Why do you keep misquoting me? I never said he would be in every single episode, but it seems he will be in every other one at the every least, which, given the appearances of the other Pokemon on his team, is absolutely disgraceful.

Yes, Axew battling is fine, my point was that he has learnt next to nothing about battling for the entirety of BW. He is shown all the time, but isn't actually developed, in the same was as Oshawott is. The writers constantly spam the cutesy's but don't actually do anything with them. That's what has made this saga the most atrocious one in the history of Pokemon, the decent, interesting Pokemon never appeared and the cute ones stole all the screentime and yet achieved absolutely nothing other than cheap comic relief. Oshawott, Axew, Pikachu and early on, Tepig were the things the writers used to ruin this saga. If a certain Pokemon is going to lose every battle its in then it can bog off and let something decent win in its place.

Next saga, my desperate hope is that there are NO cutesy mascots on Ash's team and the Axew's/Piplup's of this world not to steal Ash's Pokemon's screentime by pratting around with balloons or lose all the time (Axew) or being trained all the time at the expense of Ash's team and using way too much screentime for cheap comic relief (Piplup). The writers are ruining this programme.

Don't worry, she'll just use Dragonite (a fully-evolved caught Pokemon) to prove how much training she's done in her journey with Axew.
Yep, you got it there. Dragonite was the lazy writers way of not evolving or developing Axew at all. They seem to decide part of the way into BW that Oshawott and Axew were going to be their cutesy-pimping tools and so haven't bothered making them competent battlers.
 
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Yep, you got it there. Dragonite was the lazy writers way of not evolving or developing Axew at all. They seem to decide part of the way into BW that Oshawott and Axew were going to be their cutesy-pimping tools and so haven't bothered making them competent battlers.
Kibago has gotten some development, he's not the same Pokemon who couldn't even Scratch Yanappu in the Pendra episode in early BW. He's clearly gotten stronger and as a character, he's become more confident. Take the battle against Luke where he was running around screaming his head off and lost his cool and compare that to the battle against Shirona and how he was confident and strong himself stood up to Gablias the best way he could. Kibago's grown as a Pokemon, that's obvious. A loss to Banipuuchi couldn't be helped, it's an Ice-type after all and Kibago does have the staying power to buffer super-effective hits like Kairyu. BW doesn't do on-screen training, most of it is clearly happening after screen. With good reason too because on-screen training is extremely boring, for the most part the writers are keeping Kibago and Zuruggu's power-levels around the same areas. Kibago just doesn't get many battles, which is a shame. Even the village matriarch acknowledged Kibago had gotten stronger, so yeah, the writers are spitting it right in the viewers faces that Kibago has become stronger. If anything, if Langley and Iris battle again, Kibago will be facing off against Langley's Baivanilla after the dynamic they had in the Ice phobia episode - what with Baivanilla having a thing for "Dragon boys" as Langley said and being a freshly caught. Doryuzu would get Tsunbear since it played a significant role in the episode he started obeying Iris(Plus their last bout ended in a tie.) and Kairyu would get Kirikizan, as he has never battled it before and he has an iron will and ability to stand up to Ice-type attacks and has already beaten Tsunbear.

What I'm saying is, even though it was a fighting tournament...there were still other types of Pokemon there. There was a Druddigon for instance. The writers could have easily had Iris use Axew there if they were actually serious about her training it.
Kibago only knew Dragon Rage and Scratch and maybe Outrage at the time. The Donamite was a Fighting-type tournament and those who didn't have them used their most "physical" Pokemon. Doryuzu has Metal Claw, Drill Liner, and Dig.(Even Focus Blast was used at close-range.) So she used her Doryuzu, simple.
 
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Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
Kibago only knew Dragon Rage and Scratch and maybe Outrage at the time. The Donamite was a Fighting-type tournament and those who didn't have them used their most "physical" Pokemon. Doryuzu has Metal Claw, Drill Liner, and Dig.(Even Focus Blast was used at close-range.) So she used her Doryuzu, simple.
Ash could have used Infernape(he has no problem contacting Oak throughout Unova) if he wanted, it's his most physical fighting type after all. But he opted to use a weaker less, experienced Pokemon. In a similar fashion, Iris could have done the same. Even if she has a more physical/stronger Pokemon like Excadrill, she could have used Axew...who is supposedly equal to Scraggy as you put it, because of all it's alleged off-screen training.
 
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Eievui-Nymphia

XY, gen of dreams.
Its like the writers make their executive decisions just to irritate me Normal if you hate Pikachu.. The only of Ash's Pokemon we see battle, or indeed, at all was Pikachu. That is my definition of stupid pointless filler. If no moves are learnt, no captures are made, nothing evolves and only Pikachu appears, then a episode is a filler and I don't want to see it.

This saga is shaping up to be entirely atrocious fillers and Oshawott-spam. Good luck, taking ride of Oshawott. Let's see if XY can take out Oshawott And the league was cut short for this tat....
I have to remember that the pokemon series is "de facto" mandated by Tomy and fiends. Tomy want as much Oshawott as possible to get Tomy happy about pokemon. And if the writers care about Tomy, they will care about the kiddy fandom to get expensive commercials (of example, XY)

Why do you disagree with my definition of filler? A filler is an episode in which nothing of consequence happens. If nothing evolves or is caught, no moves are learnt and no Pokemon on Ash's team other than Pikachu appears even, let alone is trained, nothing of consequence has occurred.
Tthe term of filler ismoreamplified than that. If you consider a Pikachu only episode (for Ash), Ash vs Trip in the league is filler. This episode techincaly isn't filler because character interaction of Cilan.
[/QUOTE]

That's not the point. The point is that it is utterly disgraceful that Pikachu should take even one of the battles, let alone both, given the terrible battle record of the majority of his team. Why would resurrecting Palpitoad or Boldore and getting them to battle instead of the rat yet again take away from the plot?[/QUOTE
Ja,ja,ja,with Palpitoad. Paliptoad is the most forgettable pokemon and since Elesa he only has two appearances. The fact that is boring pokemon and specially the fact that is a Water-.type (dingdongdingdong) makes it outclassed.

I know gym battles etc. are more important than random battles and I know all too well that the writers are heavily biased towards Pikachu, but that doesn't make it any better. I just feel this was a total waste of an episode.

-The majority of Ash's team can still evolve, and yet none did. With Palpitoad and Boldore, there isn't excuse. With the starters and Scraggy,it is marketing reasons.
-The majority of Ash's team have terrible movesets, and yet none learned a new move. The movesets are like in AG, average.
-Most of Ash's team has shockingly bad screentime, and yet none appeared other than the one with the most screentime of any Pokemon, ever. This is true, however. The handling of the team is bad, I admitit.
-There are around 40 old Pokemon rotting at Oak's lab a few of which usually appear during filler saga's, many need appearances, like Kingler who hasn't battled since mid-Johto, and yet none appeared and none look likely to. Keep dreaming.
-There are several poorly-developed human characters, Trip, Burgundy, Georgia and older ones that could return for an episode, but none did.
-There are a good number of un-debuted Pokemon and yet none appeared. This episode has one.

What did happen?
-Pikachu got yet another battle.
-Cilan's same old Brock-stale comic relief routine.
- Axew 'battled' and showed it had learned squat and developed nil. That thing would have a hard job beating a magikarp.

Is this show perfect? Clearly not. So until it is, there is no excuse to do nothing whatsoever with episode after episode for no reason other than pure laziness. There are lots of improvements to be made and development to be had but they do nothing. Lets not pretend they don't have time, the writers just can't be bothered to write.

People slag off the kanto saga but at least they didn't have thoroughly pointless tat so often.
The saga shouldn't be perfect for tyou. The preferable way is that the writing will be on par to the best saga, who BW sadly isn't.

Why do you keep misquoting me? I never said he would be in every single episode, but it seems he will be in every other one at the every least, which, given the appearances of the other Pokemon on his team, is absolutely disgraceful.

Yes, Axew battling is fine, my point was that he has learnt next to nothing about battling for the entirety of BW. He is shown all the time, but isn't actually developed, in the same was as Oshawott is. The writers constantly spam the cutesy's but don't actually do anything with them. That's what has made this saga the most atrocious one in the history of Pokemon, the decent, interesting Pokemon never appeared and the cute ones stole all the screentime and yet achieved absolutely nothing other than cheap comic relief. Oshawott, Axew, Pikachu and early on, Tepig were the things the writers used to ruin this saga. If a certain Pokemon is going to lose every battle its in then it can bog off and let something decent win in its place.
Axew and Oshawott are weak for different reasons. Axew because it's a baby and Oshawott because... bad writing. Pikachu is a powerhouse in the BW only behind Krookodile (although in BW Ash is "weaker" than in DP.

Next saga, my desperate hope is that there are NO cutesy mascots on Ash's team and the Axew's/Piplup's of this world not to steal Ash's Pokemon's screentime by pratting around with balloons or lose all the time (Axew) or being trained all the time at the expense of Ash's team and using way too much screentime for cheap comic relief (Piplup). The writers are ruining this programme.
If the writers put evolved pokemon, Tomy and co. won't be happy. And the comedy part isn't for you.



Yep, you got it there. Dragonite was the lazy writers way of not evolving or developing Axew at all. They seem to decide part of the way into BW that Oshawott and Axew were going to be their cutesy-pimping tools and so haven't bothered making them competent battlers.
I have to agree that the case of those pokemon is bad writing of BW, thing that BW has in abundance.

Kibago has gotten some development, he's not the same Pokemon who couldn't even Scratch Yanappu in the Pendra episode in early BW. He's clearly gotten stronger and as a character, he's become more confident. Take the battle against Luke where he was running around screaming his head off and lost his cool and compare that to the battle against Shirona and how he was confident and strong himself stood up to Gablias the best way he could. Kibago's grown as a Pokemon, that's obvious. A loss to Banipuuchi couldn't be helped, it's an Ice-type after all and Kibago does have the staying power to buffer super-effective hits like Kairyu. BW doesn't do on-screen training, most of it is clearly happening after screen. With good reason too because on-screen training is extremely boring, for the most part the writers are keeping Kibago and Zuruggu's power-levels around the same areas. Kibago just doesn't get many battles, which is a shame. Even the village matriarch acknowledged Kibago had gotten stronger, so yeah, the writers are spitting it right in the viewers faces that Kibago has become stronger. If anything, if Langley and Iris battle again, Kibago will be facing off against Langley's Baivanilla after the dynamic they had in the Ice phobia episode - what with Baivanilla having a thing for "Dragon boys" as Langley said and being a freshly caught. Doryuzu would get Tsunbear since it played a significant role in the episode he started obeying Iris(Plus their last bout ended in a tie.) and Kairyu would get Kirikizan, as he has never battled it before and he has an iron will and ability to stand up to Ice-type attacks and has already beaten Tsunbear.
It's true that Axew is getting stronger (unlike Oshawott who sometimes regress mid-saga?) but it has bad writing for him and it doesn't feel that way many times. And hope with Georgia, at least is better than what naughtyun wanted for the series.
I don't think that is a bad episode, getting note that I expected 0 minutes of battling in it given the VA List. At least they get battles, wins and they develop Cilan.
 
Ash could have used Infernape(he has no problem contacting Oak throughout Unova) if he wanted, it's his most physical fighting type after all. But he opted to use a weaker less, experienced Pokemon. In a similar fashion, Iris could have done the same. Even if she has a more physical/stronger Pokemon like Excadrill, she could have used Axew...who is supposedly equal to Scraggy as you put it because of all it's alleged off-screen training.
We both know very well he in no way possible would use an older Pokemon. He used Zuruggu because it was a Fighting-type. Simple as that. Look at the Iris/Hikari BW2 episode, she's shown quick scenes of training with Satoshi before the plot started. That's all we need to see, we can easily surmise it's happening off-screen. Training is not a plot, like taking a pee or eating lunch it's not relevant and pretty boring. We don't need whole episodes of it, BW does its training correctly. In vain that if it isn't fun training like with Hachiku or Miju or Aloe. We don't need to see it, especially if there's no payoff in the end.
 

Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
We both know very well he in no way possible would use an older Pokemon.
Clearly. Reason being that he wants to train his newer, less experienced Pokemon. That doesn't change the fact that he could have used Infernape. Just as easily as he called for Charizard. Georgia complaining about Iris not using a Dragon type throughout the Donamite was clearly comically lampshading the issue of her relying on another Pokemon in that tournament that wasn't Axew, a Dragon type.
 
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HatersGonnaHate

Throwing Shade
Clearly. Reason being that he wants to train his newer, less experienced Pokemon. That doesn't change the fact that he could have used Infernape. Just as easily as he called for Charizard. Georgia complaining about Iris not using a Dragon type throughout the Donamite was clearly comically lampshading the issue of her relying on another Pokemon in that tournament that wasn't Axew, a Dragon type.
Nice try. Georgia wanted Iris to use a dragon type in general. She never once singled out Axew.
 

Graham Aker

Well-Known Member
She never once singled out Axew.
Because she totally didn't wonder why Iris wasn't using Axew in the finals against Ash in the Don Battle tournament. Would she have been complaining had Iris at least tried to use Axew in the Donamite? Probably not.
 
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Clearly. Reason being that he wants to train his newer, less experienced Pokemon. That doesn't change the fact that he could have used Infernape. Just as easily as he called for Charizard. Georgia complaining about Iris not using a Dragon type throughout the Donamite was clearly comically lampshading the issue of her relying on another Pokemon in that tournament that wasn't Axew, a Dragon type.
Not really, it has more to do with the fact BW doesn't allow older Pokemon and Satoshi had a team of 9 Pokemon at the time. There isn't any reason to call his strongest Shinou Pokemon back for a tournament it would get beaten in since the writers weren't gonna pass up Dageki VS. Nageki. He just used Zuruggu because it was a fighter, he said so himself. You can't really compare Iris using her Doryuzu, a current member of her team, in a tournament to Satoshi recalling an elder Pokemon to use. Honestly, Satoshi hasn't called back any older Pokemon for current saga tournaments since Johto. That's most likely because their was a ton of piggybacking off of Kanto for Johto in the anime and in-game. Langley said she wants to see Iris use more Dragon-types, she battled Kibago in her debut episode and busted him quickly. She was impressed with him in the Don Battle due to his Outrage and wanted to see more of that, as I said before, it's unfortunate the writers don't use Kibago enough. At the moment him and Zuruggu have a nearly equal amount of battles.

Zuruggu has Yanakkie, Nageki, Vulgina, Kibago, Hachiku, Darumaka, Pikachu, Yogiras, and Hiyakkie.

Kibago has Tsunbear, Zuruggu, Gobito, Banipuuchi, Gablias, Yanappu, Monmen, and some Plasma/Rocket(Desmas, etc.) battles and some general group stuff.(Kami Trio, Shobu's Sanzandora.)

People expect Kibago to battle more and get more battles because he's an out-of-the-ball Pokemon. But they are pretty much around the same level and the show has pretty much acknowledged that completely up until this point. Kibago was better with Dragon Rage but in the Gothimu episode the writers went back to the tie system. Cementing the fact they were both equals.
 
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