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Cilan Takes Flight (728)

DeLaw

Active Member
Crustle should have defeated Swanna with Rock Wrecker! Your a rock type with ability sturdy I think you can take water moves pretty good. Your sturdy was activated while a Dewott used Water Pulse on you! I blame you Cilan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your a Connoisucker!
 

AgentPierce

Mad science FTW!
I guess we'll agree to disagree on this one, because I couldn't get past "they're both trying to prove the exact same point, why is this going on?"
If you're saying the Cilan vs Skyla conflict needn't have happened, then I'm not disagreeing with that. I'm only saying that "avenging Cilan's loss" was never a point in Ash's gym battle. It was about a view that just happened to be shared by Cilan, rather than Cilan himself.

It was hard to tell. Looking at the list there were some good and some bad, and (perhaps ominously?) the two skipped episodes.
Is that supposed to imply that the two skipped episodes were bad???

Primarily it's how just about every single character seems to get along with him without fail. His negative aspects are played down, and the only character to actively dislike him - Burgundy - is turned into a complete joke for it. The impression given is that if you dislike Cilan, the rules of the universe will bend to make you look like an idiot.
Okay, this is just wrong for multiple reasons. Most characters getting along with him and his negative aspects being played down is common for alot of main characters on this show, Ash himself included: in fact, it applies to him waaaaaaaaaaay more than it does Cilan. And the Burgundy thing? First off, she was "turned into a complete joke" in her first appearance long before Cilan even entered the room and we found out that she dislikes him, so the "rules of the universe" thing is BS. And secondly, you know how you harp on about the fandoms' double standard when it comes to Iris and Cilan? You're sort of doing it here in the other direction. What about Georgia? Alot of fans found her initial jerky attitude towards Iris refreshing because she was able to call Iris out of her flaws (the "what a kid" being hypocritical, her being a poor dragon trainer) and yet she was eventually made to like and respect Iris. She may not suffer the same comical treatment as Burgundy and stay much more of a threat, but this still allows Iris to get away with her faults. But I cannot and shall not hate on Iris because of it the way you hate on Cilan.

I've made it pretty clear that his rude attitude toward people who disagree with him, his utterly ridiculous number of random hobbies that often happen to come up just coincidentally when they're necessary (itself another Stu trait) and spamming of Crustle bother me. And those are only three things
The only instance of "rude attitude toward people who disagree with him" I can remember is Skyla. His ridiculous number of random hobbies is supposed to be just that: ridiculous, played for comedy, not meant to be taken seriously, NOT a Stu trait. And...yeah, I won't argue about spamming Crustle. But hey, at least it's making use of a strong pokemon he has.

That said, however, I'm actually going to defend him here. The only times I've ever fully liked him have been the Club Battle and Clubsplosion tournaments. Granted, that's largely because Burgundy was around to ***** at him, but he was actually funny in those episodes to me, not completely unwatchable
Funny, because I seem to remember you being one of the people *****ing about how he would not shut up in his battle with Luke, even though that was intentionally played as what led to his downfall. I personally had no problem with him in the Don Battle, but thought he was pathetic in the Donamite: I mean, he only advanced because he was able to beat a little girl and then got shut down completely by Stephan!

And I'm also in the camp that finds him "actually funny" a number of times. But that seems to be the majority.
 
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WaterShuriken

"I..I..Iron Tail, Pikachu."
Crustle should have defeated Swanna with Rock Wrecker! Your a rock type with ability sturdy I think you can take water moves pretty good. Your sturdy was activated while a Dewott used Water Pulse on you! I blame you Cilan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your a Connoisucker!
So you wanted Crustle to sweep the gym?
 

The Great Butler

Hush, keep it down
Is that supposed to imply that the two skipped episodes were bad???
Absolutely not. It's supposed to imply that I wasn't on the same wavelength as you regarding Tomioka's writing.

Okay, this is just wrong for multiple reasons. Most characters getting along with him and his negative aspects being played down is common for alot of main characters on this show, Ash himself included: in fact, it applies to him waaaaaaaaaaay more than it does Cilan. And the Burgundy thing? First off, she was "turned into a complete joke" in her first appearance long before Cilan even entered the room and we found out that she dislikes him, so the "rules of the universe" thing is BS. And secondly, you know how you harp on about the fandoms' double standard when it comes to Iris and Cilan? You're sort of doing it here in the other direction. What about Georgia? Alot of fans found her initial jerky attitude towards Iris refreshing because she was able to call Iris out of her flaws (the "what a kid" being hypocritical, her being a poor dragon trainer) and yet she was eventually made to like and respect Iris. She may not suffer the same comical treatment as Burgundy and stay much more of a threat, but this still allows Iris to get away with her faults. But I cannot and shall not hate on Iris because of it the way you hate on Cilan.
The way I see it, Iris has gotten a lot better about at least some of her flaws lately; you certainly don't hear "what a kid" as much anymore. I only wish I could track the same amount of growth in Cilan, who hasn't really changed much at all since the beginning.

What bothers me about Burgundy is that she's never even been allowed to even have a point; all you have to do is look at the Pinot Noir episode to see how poorly she gets treated. At least Georgia actually comes off as a little less of a piece of paper and is given some substance. Burgundy, meanwhile, can't even get lucky when Cilan isn't involved.

The only instance of "rude attitude toward people who disagree with him" I can remember is Skyla. His ridiculous number of random hobbies is supposed to be just that: ridiculous, played for comedy, not meant to be taken seriously, NOT a Stu trait. And...yeah, I won't argue about spamming Crustle. But hey, at least it's making use of a strong pokemon he has.
I would take the hobbies as a joke if they weren't several times exactly what the episode needs to resolve the plot. He just happened to be a fisherman just in time for Bianca to learn how to fish, was a detective when there was a mystery with the missing Audino, just happened to be an actor when they met Luke , and knew completely everything about the Battle Subway just when there happened to be a heist using it (the most ridiculous one of all; seriously, subway conventions?)

I wouldn't mind Crustle so much if he actually remembered that he has two other Pokemon who aren't weak either.

Funny, because I seem to remember you being one of the people *****ing about how he would not shut up in his battle with Luke, even though that was intentionally played as what led to his downfall. I personally had no problem with him in the Don Battle, but thought he was pathetic in the Donamite: I mean, he only advanced because he was able to beat a little girl and then got shut down completely by Stephan!
Aside from his obnoxious behavior while fighting Luke, I should say. The weird thing about it all is, it's mostly because the Club Battle and Clubsplosion got all the rivals together, leading Cilan and Burgundy to constantly try to one-up each other while Georgia complains about them both.

It goes back to what I keep saying: Cilan's personality is mismatched to Ash and Iris. If he was around someone as crazy as he is (Burgundy) it would work a lot better.
 

AgentPierce

Mad science FTW!
Absolutely not. It's supposed to imply that I wasn't on the same wavelength as you regarding Tomioka's writing.
Nah, sometimes Tomioka can write decent and even good episodes. And I'm pretty sure "Team Rocket vs Team Plasma" is great.

It's just that the worst episodes of the show almost always have the habit of being written by Tomioka.

The way I see it, Iris has gotten a lot better about at least some of her flaws lately; you certainly don't hear "what a kid" as much anymore. I only wish I could track the same amount of growth in Cilan, who hasn't really changed much at all since the beginning.
Not arguing with you there: Iris does get more character development than Cilan. The same was true between Misty and Brock. too.

What bothers me about Burgundy is that she's never even been allowed to even have a point; all you have to do is look at the Pinot Noir episode to see how poorly she gets treated. At least Georgia actually comes off as a little less of a piece of paper and is given some substance. Burgundy, meanwhile, can't even get lucky when Cilan isn't involved.
Like it or not, that's her character so far. She's a Butt Monkey extraordinaire. But I DO hope she'll get treated better in the future.

I would take the hobbies as a joke if they weren't several times exactly what the episode needs to resolve the plot. He just happened to be a fisherman just in time for Bianca to learn how to fish, was a detective when there was a mystery with the missing Audino, just happened to be an actor when they met Luke , and knew completely everything about the Battle Subway just when there happened to be a heist using it (the most ridiculous one of all; seriously, subway conventions?)
That he can pull out plot-relevent hobbies that he has a passion for is, again, meant to be ridiculous. That last one, as you said, was the most ridiculous of all and was portrayed as such: I thought him going on about how "Metero Conoisseurs" are different from "Train Connoisseurs" "Track Connoisseurs" "Subway Connoisseurs", etc. would have clued you in that it was all a big joke. I mean, it's a kids show: sometimes things like these are meant to be taken lightly.

I wouldn't mind Crustle so much if he actually remembered that he has two other Pokemon who aren't weak either.
He's used Pansage more often than he does Crustle, actually. It's Stunfisk that really gets the shaft.

Aside from his obnoxious behavior while fighting Luke, I should say.
Which I personally ended up enjoying because, again, it ended up working against him.

The weird thing about it all is, it's mostly because the Club Battle and Clubsplosion got all the rivals together, leading Cilan and Burgundy to constantly try to one-up each other while Georgia complains about them both.
Which isn't much different from when Cilan does his Conoisseur schtick solo and Iris complains about it.

It goes back to what I keep saying: Cilan's personality is mismatched to Ash and Iris. If he was around someone as crazy as he is (Burgundy) it would work a lot better.
Or Pinot Nior. But Cilan's personality "mismatched" to Ash and Iris is exactly what makes his place in the group so great and makes for great interaction between all three of them. If you want a group with personalities that blend together perfectly, go back to the DP trio of Ash, Dawn, and Brock, who were all equally bland. I find a group of totally different people interacting with one another to be more entertaining.
 
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CupidKirby

Well-Known Member
Just saw the episode myself. My first reaction? Dent really needs to train his Stunfisk and Pansage. Stunfisk made an admirable attempt though.

I have to say unlike a lot of people here who found Dent's obnoxious explosion happened just for the sake of being annoying/fabulous, I thought it made sense. The whole reason he even joined Ash was because he was impressed by his ability to turn predictable battles around. Skyla completely went against that so I liked how the writers kept that consistency with his character reacting so strongly. So yeah. I don't think he exploded because he was supposedly right, a gym leader, a guy, or a gary stu with a I-hate-people-who-disagree-with-me complex (I could've sworn the list was longer). He exploded because he's Dent. Sorry.
 
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Sure, he exploded because he's Dent.

That still doesn't make the gym any of his business.
 

CupidKirby

Well-Known Member
Sure, he exploded because he's Dent.

That still doesn't make the gym any of his business.
Like he cares. He's not going to stop to think about the world issues behind everything he does.

The fact that everyone here is stereotyping him for the sake of getting their own point across is a world issue in itself.
 

Mr. Ribbles

Cubchoo Lover
Yeah I want Crustle to sweep the gym. He's a rock type,and I dont care if he is also a bug type.
So, what your saying is...is that Rock types should always win agenst flying types? Thats not the case. Flying types can still pull off wins agenst Rock types.

Anyway, Cilan does really need to train his Stunfisk. Poor thing..
 

DeLaw

Active Member
And here's the reason why I, do not think rock types should always win against flying types. Many flying pokemon like Swannna, Ducklett,Wingull, and Peliper are half water so they have a little advantage over rock types.
 
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SmartD

Well-Known Member
It's a good episode. This is part is funny:

Cilan: It's evaluation time!
Iris: Which means it's boring lecture time.

And Ash has to prove to Skyla regular battles are better than air battles. This will be very interesting.
 
Well it looks like Pikachu won't be used in this gym battle. I was wrong and look at that Ash's Tranquil evolves in that episode.
Since Ash is showing Skyla wrong about her mental air battles, It's a good idea to not use Pikachu. I didn't think i say this, but Ash's random choice regaurdless of type advantage could be the key. So here are my ideas of what pokemon he would use.

-Snivy - To prove Skyla that Flying types don't always win agansit Grass types
-Tranquil - transquil evolves and a battle between Unfezants of two gengers
- Krookorok - To be used in a gym battle for the first time and haveing it be a ground type that knows a rock type move, which show Skyla's predictions from ground types in her air battles wrong.
 

TheEliteEmpoleon

Well-Known Member
I thought the episode was okay. I didn't like Skyla as much as I thought I would, she seemed kind of annoying. If being a gym leader was taking up too much of her flying time, she should give the job to someone who finds it honorable. Also, I didn't catch the grandfather's name. I swear I heard "Mimes" but that has to be wrong. I was also dissapointed at how easily Cilan went down.
 

ArielSummer

Well-Known Member
his name was Miles I re,member since i made a joke about his name and Cilan's VA and one of his older roles. But yeah,Skyla is a lot more of a you know what then in the games.
 

GalladeRocks

Son of a Beach
Also, I didn't catch the grandfather's name. I swear I heard "Mimes" but that has to be wrong.
His name was "Miles". But "Mimes" is close enough :p

Overall, I really liked the episode. We had a really good battle with all of Cilan's Pokemon getting some action, even if they were getting pounded most of the time. I also actually liked Skyla, mostly because of how unlikeable they made her. Her attitude towards Gym battles would be enough to make me get as mad as Ash and Cilan. The fact that she even wound up beating Cilan made her obnoxious attitude even more unlikeable and raised the stakes of Ash's battle in the next episode tenfold: If he loses, then Skyla will believe in her absurd battle strategy without hope of opposition. So all in all, this episode was a great plot move to raise tension.

Of course, the best part of the episode was Cilan's Pokemon introduction. I couldn't have been the only one who heard Crustle's brief seizure as the Pokemon were saying their names:

Pansage: "Pansage!"

Stunfisk: "Stunfisk!"

Crustle: "HRBRBRBRBRBRBR!"
 

ArielSummer

Well-Known Member
Air Battles? More like Mind Battles. Skyla should so make a schedule to fight trainers.

Also, it's kind of weird that the Gym Leaders of a region don't know each other.
I think its due to them being many in a region. In the game we get 8 but it has been said that there more then only 8 in a region.
 
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