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Cilan Takes Flight (728)

Discussion in 'Pokémon Black & White - Rival Destinies' started by Serebii, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. JennaJayfeather

    JennaJayfeather jflkdjkfgjafgaf

    Oh gosh. I actually decided to watch the dub for this one. XDDD It's bad I burst out laughing at some parts

    The first part was the....well growling/grunting when Cilan was annoyed. It made me laugh. xD Like WHAT WAS THAT? I remember Dento doing more of an annoyed "keh"...J. Griff. did a pretty good job angry, but it didn't hold a candle stick to MamoMiya's "I can't accept this." Cilan sounded mad. Dento sounded like he was going to go out and murder someone.

    The second part was:

    Pansage: Pansage!
    Stunfisk: Stunfisk!
    Crustle: HJHsfjdeharwuhghegheg

    I cracked up....so hard. XDDD Like WHAT WAS THAT now?


    For something I liked more I actually liked Skyla's voice a bit more. It was kind of valley girl, but I'm fine with valley girl. The pitchiness was terrible in Japanese (for me) to where it hurt my ears. Dx So it was an ok dub...but still I'm not used to this (and I forgot people did that weird growl thing to show they are annoyed. xD)
     
  2. The Great Butler

    The Great Butler Hush, keep it down

    And Clay forcing challengers to do his chores until he feels like fighting them is any better?

    My case just keeps getting made for me...
     
  3. Grey Wind

    Grey Wind Only rescues maidens

    No, it's not, but I don't see how that is relevant. Just because Clay was breaking rules too doesn't mean that Skyla didn't.

    Well you still haven't explained how exactly Skyla was right in this case, so no, your case isn't getting made for you. Just because another Gym leader also broke rules doesn't make Skyla's 'air battles' any more right. Bringing up Clay is irrelevant to this.
     
  4. gpt11

    gpt11 Well-Known Member

    at least clay battled his challengers
     
  5. the1stpkmnfan

    the1stpkmnfan Your Big Buff Bro

    Took me awhile to watch this episode, and wow... Skyla is clearly an arrogant "air head". So much for me expecting to see her as a sweet, charming girl. But nope, we get a lazy one. Shame though, Skyla had a lot of potential by her look; Winoa shares her spot in Gym Leader Order, along with the same type, and I enjoyed having her around more.

    Cilan may have gone overboard and was just as cocky, but I couldn't blame him in the moment. He of course opposed of Skyla's "air battles" and wanted to challenge her to a real battle. To show what battling is truly about. He almost won, but Skyla made it through like it was all about her.

    So glad Ash stepped up his game and opposed her way of battling, too. Seeing him and Cilan so angry about all this was quite amusing. Never seen Ash so assertive or disapproving before, so I look forward to seeing his battle with Skyla this week.
     
  6. The Great Butler

    The Great Butler Hush, keep it down

    Actually, you're entirely missing the point. You're even admitting that Clay was just as wrong as Skyla was, so what justifies the difference in outrage both from the characters in-universe and the people here?

    That's what my case is, and every time someone turns a blind eye to Clay neglecting his Gym so he could work in his mine, yes, it is being made for me. But at least this misogynistic cluster**** of an arc is finally over after this week and we won't have to talk about it again.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  7. GalladeRocks

    GalladeRocks Son of a Beach

    I know, right? Best part of the episode. Just one of the many reasons that I love the dub . . . aside from the fact that I can't speak Japanese.

    I still think that BW has had the best selection for Gym Leader voices. In most other regions there were one or two who I thought had unfitting voices, but they've nailed them all in Unova, in my opinion. Clay is still my favorite. He sounds like Yosemite Sam, which is absolutely perfect to Clay's character if you ask me :p

    Honestly, while Clay was certainly out of line as well, I find Skyla's offense to be worse. Nothing against Skyla, I still like her as a character, but at least Clay was fighting his battles and allowing challengers to prove their strength that way. Skyla's methods are highly questionable. While we know that Skyla herself wouldn't lie about it, her methods would be far too easy for someone to exploit. Take the person she was up against who had Emolga, Boldore, and Zebstrika. For all we know, Boldore might have had an entire moveset of Ground-type attacks and Emolga and Zebstrika might not have known a single Electric attack. It'd be far too easy for someone to slip by based on Skyla's assumptions. Again, nothing personal against Skyla, but her battle methods are not only highly suspect but also easily exploitable by sneaky trainers.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2012
  8. Hudsonn98

    Hudsonn98 Well-Known Member

    I thought Skyla was going to be sweet but then she turned out to be a real jerk....too bad Cilan lost to her.
     
  9. Grey Wind

    Grey Wind Only rescues maidens

    Uh, back-pedalling? You said this:

    Which shows that you think that what Skyla was doing was right. Saying that Clay was wrong too is all well and good, but it still doesn't show me why Skyla was right in what she was doing. Yes, nobody called Clay out for postponing battles, but really, that was just a reason for Ash to go to the Kami island.

    Anyway, what Clay does is irrelevant because you still haven't given your reasoning for why Skyla was breaking no rules.
     
  10. The Great Butler

    The Great Butler Hush, keep it down

    Each Gym Leader is in charge of making their own rules for their own Gym. The Air Battles were Skyla's Gym theme, just like how the Striaton Gym's theme was selecting one of the three Leaders and Lenora's was reading the books before you could fight her. In addition, if what Skyla was doing was actually wrong, she would have been shut down or removed from the position based on what we've seen in the past.

    Instead, a Gym Leader who is derelict in his own duties comes along and oversteps his bounds by enforcing his own personal rules instead of allowing the League system to enforce theirs.

    tl;dr you can tell Skyla was not breaking any rules because, based on established precedent, if she was the Gym would be shut down. In addition, if she was derelict in her duties by awarding badges in a different way, what does that say about Clay, who blew off his own Gym regularly, or Cilan, who simply walked away from what was explicitly registered as a three-Leader Gym?
     
  11. Lorde

    Lorde Banned

    I find it funny that you're attacking Skyla's methods while you completely ignore Volkner's; the guy was literally giving out badges for free. At least Skyla tested the challengers, even if she didn't actually battle them. I'm honestly tired of people bashing female characters just because they do things their own way. It's honestly sickening that so many people side with characters like Cilan just because he's portrayed as being "fabulous" and "correct" all the time. It's indoctrination at its best.
     
  12. Haunter ゴースト

    Haunter ゴースト Well-Known Member

    The way I see it, both Volkner and Skyla were in the wrong and should have been caught by the PIA before the gang met them, but obviously that never happened.
     
  13. gpt11

    gpt11 Well-Known Member

    I did mention Valkner earlier.....

    also GalladeRocks wasnt attacking Skyla at all they said they liked the character! all Gallade said was that her methods are questionable e.g

    Take the person she was up against who had Emolga, Boldore, and Zebstrika. For all we know, Boldore might have had an entire moveset of Ground-type attacks and Emolga and Zebstrika might not have known a single Electric attack. It'd be far too easy for someone to slip by based on Skyla's assumptions

    This is a true and valid point look at Iris's Emolga its part Flying type yet doesnt know a single Flying attack....

    Skyla didnt test her challengers she just looked at their Pokemon and made assumptions on how the battle would go! Tesing her challengers would be testing there knowledge of Pokemon type and Moves e.g

    Which of your Pokemon would you use against my Swoobat/Unfezant?
    What Moves does your Pokemon Know that would be Super effective againt my Swanna?
    How would you react to this Scenareo? [insert battle sequence]

    Skyla doing Air Battles wasnt "Skyla's Battle Style" it was invented so she could spend most of her time flying a plane and neglecting her duties.....

    also no offence Kira but you have done your fair share of Female Character Bashing (everybody does) some characters you either love or hate
     
  14. Lorde

    Lorde Banned

    I don't think their methods were necessarily wrong. I just don't get why Volkner was allowed to slide while Skyla gets all the hate. Unlike Volkner, she actually assessed the challenger's Pokemon using logic, so I don't get what the big deal is. It just seems strange that Cilan and his fans got so worked up over Skyla's method of running her Gym.

    Well sorry; I used CTRL + F to search the page for mentions of his name, but it seems you misspelled it. Ergo, I didn't see it.

    Aside from criticizing the way the writers handled May and Dawn and a few arguments with their fans, I haven't been too hard on female characters.
     
  15. Raptor_Crow

    Raptor_Crow I lied to you all

    I loved this episode, such as seeing Cilan's outburst be part of a plot (I enjoy it when it is played for laughs also).

    Skyla, she's fun, I loved her titles for her Pokémon. Also Cilan calling his Pansage "my precious Pansage" was cute.

    I enjoyed the arrogance and smugness among Cilan and Skyla. I found the two entertaining in their own crazy way.

    Skyla winning was to show off just how strong she can be so we can be prepared to witness a tough battle for Ash.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2012
  16. Grey Wind

    Grey Wind Only rescues maidens

    Denying trainers the right to battle her is a theme? I'm sorry, but that's ridiculous. Gyms are there for trainers to challenge and defeat so that they earn their badge. What Skyla was doing was totally out of line, and I can't see how you'd think that it's ok. She was guessing the outcome of her battles. Ash proved that her 'air battles' were totally unreliable, so that really just cements it. Gyms can have their own little quirks, but not giving people a fair chance to earn their badge is crossing the line.

    It's totally unfair to the trainers if they're not given a chance to win the badge. There's the other side of it too, like GalladeRocks mentioned. It's an easily abused system and basically lets people get badges for free, just like Volkner's Gym. I honestly cannot find anything right about Skyla's ignorance of Gym battling.

    Because it's an anime. They wanted Ash to defeat her and rekindle her love of battles or whatever. Things like this don't work like the real world; she wasn't shut down because the writers needed her Gym for a plot point.

    Yes, we've established that Clay was in the wrong too. Doesn't make Skyla any more right.
     
  17. The Great Butler

    The Great Butler Hush, keep it down

    And nobody at all cares about Clay's actions. Now do you see the hypocrisy? Where was Cilan's forced outrage then?
     
  18. dman_dustin

    dman_dustin Well-Known Member

    Why are we comparing Clay's actions to Skyla?

    I honestly don't see what Clay did was wrong. Outside of delaying a gym. I don't think it's against the rules to delay a gym for any reason.

    Clay is also a business man, who is gifted in Pokemon battles, kind of like how Giovanni is Leader of an evil organization but had time to run a gym.

    Clay had other priorities. And quite frankly I don't see the problem.

    It's kind of ridiculous for anyone to think "Hey you're a gym leader, I'm a challenger, stop what the **** you're doing and battle me."

    Which is kind of what Ash did to Clay, just not as rude and pretentious.

    This is kind of the reason why gyms do have reservations. Why would anyone expect a gym leader to stop doing what they're doing and then battle them, right there and then. Sure was it rude of Clay? Sure but no ruder than Ash thinking Clay was going to stop doing what he was doing and battle him.

    As for the revival herbs, well what would be the better route. Having a "rude" challenger going to get the herbs to prove himself worthy, or having the gym leader drop what he's doing, go to some place to get herbs as a result to an unforeseen reason, and waste all that potential time not battling challengers or running his business. Sure he could've sent someone else but then that person whoever he sent would've had to deal with Team Rocket. And odds are they wouldn't have been able to stop Team Rocket from taking the Kami Trio thus no revival herbs.

    How is this Ash's problem? The revival herbs are for Pokemon, it seems quite clear that something happened in the mine, that would require a whole crap load of revival herbs to take care of, something that potentially the Pokemon Center might not be able to handle.

    But let's go further and presume Clay is a jerk, and let's say it was to keep the Pokemon continuing to mine, thus notifying the Pokemon center would be admitting overworking the Pokemon.

    Regardless of the reason do you think Clay was really in a business position to battle Ash and ignore what the revival herbs were for.

    Now Clay isn't omniscient, but through the course of actions from the writers.

    - Ash was promised a battle if he got the revival herbs
    - Milos Island and the Kami Trio were saved as a direct result of Ash, Iris and Cilan going to the island to receive the revival herbs.
    - Ash got revival herbs and got to battle Clay.

    Now you can argue the questionable actions by Clay, and argue how selfish Clay was acting, but I think in this instance, what happened was far better than any non selfless course of actions.


    But let's go back to Skyla. What did she do so wrong?

    Well let's say she was derelict in her duties as a gym leader, she wasn't delaying the gym battle, she was denying the chance for anyone to prove her wrong.

    While yes, I will fully admit, at LEAST Skyla's methods are at least BETTER than Volkner's method of just giving people badges, let's not lie here just to justify Skyla's methods. Ash was just as pissed with Volkner's method as well as Paul, just like Cilan and Ash are pissed at Skyla for her methods.

    There are trainers out there that don't want to take the easy way out, which is why Ash and Paul were upset with Sunyshore Gym, while people like Barry don't really care about earning badges the right and hard way.

    Then there are people who believe that only by battling will one determine if one is worthy of a badge. Some "mind" simulation that only takes in account for types of the Pokemon involved, is very flawed, and should Skyla believe that her Pokemon are superior, what chance do these trainers have to prove her wrong. There's no concept of rechallenging Skyla, without bringing different Pokemon into the loop.

    What's to stop trainers from borrowing the winning combination of Pokemon and getting freebie badges? In those exploited instances, Skyla is no better than Volkner since she would just be giving away badges, in a glorified manner as Volkner.

    It's not just the types of Pokemon to consider which Skyla failed to take in account with Swoobat vs Krokorok, even if she was right in the end, even if Krokorok's ground type moves were ineffective against Skyla's Swoobat. Krokorok type wise still has a huge advantage over Swoobat for the simple fact, dark types are super effective against Swoobat. Swoobat's flying attacks to neutral damage, so Super Effective Moves>>>>Neutral Effective Moves. Any way the point is you have to consider, the Pokemon (size and shape could easily influence a battle's outcome by taking advantage of the Pokemon's natural abilities), AND their types AND their potential moves AND the skills of the trainer.

    Because someone like Mick (from Krokorok's capture), who has a limited understanding of Pokemon in general, if he wasn't coached by Ash and Cilan, he'd probably lose a battle where he even had Elite 4 Pokemon, while the opponent had Battle Frontier-level Pokemon.

    The problem, the main problem, the point of all this was simple.

    Skyla decided based on her own mind and belief if a challenger got a badge or not WITHOUT the challenger being able to question her decision.

    I have NO IDEA why anyone would condone that logic or those actions. Or why anyone is getting all upset JUST BECAUSE Ash and Cilan have a problem with it.
     
  19. DMerle

    DMerle Guess who's back

    I really don't see why Clay's getting bashed here, the fact remains that he's not going to engage in a gym battle when the local Pokémon centre is out of there main ingredient for treating Pokémon injuries, Ash wanted a battle so he told him to and get some herbs before the battle. It's completely understandable, if he'd asked for some obscure item that was out of his own desire then I'd see the problem but since what he wanted would actually be vital at the end of a battle I fail to see the big deal. Oh and yes, Skyla was being utterly ridiculous even more so than Volkner in my opinion.
     
  20. Lorde

    Lorde Banned

    Gee. I didn't know you were the authority on Gym regulations. I'm seriously shocked to see you bashing Skyla. I thought it was quite obvious that she didn't do anything wrong, and I thought I could count on you to support my arguments. But it seems I was mistaken. I don't know where your hate for Skyla stems from, but it would behoove you to look at this from a different angle. Skyla wasn't just guessing the outcome of the battles; she was clearly using logic, the same type of logic that everyone else uses when they're playing the games. I don't get why Volkner and Clay were allowed to run their Gyms their own way while Skyla gets attacked for using her head. I mean God forbid that the anime should get a female character who is as intelligent as male characters. :rolleyes:
     

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