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Clefable vs Blissey vs Wigglytuff. Who is the best?

Discussion in 'Older Gens' started by Sante, Aug 20, 2012.

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  1. Sante

    Sante Well-Known Member

    Let's discuss about each one.

    All of them have a titanic movepool with very useful moves.

    Blissey and Clefable have Softboiled while Wigglytuff only has Wish.

    Blissey has atrocious Def though monstrous HP and Sp.Def.
    Clefable has very high HP, decent Def and very resepctable Sp.Def.
    Wigglytuff has barely passable defenses and stellar HP.

    Although Blissey has the less Def, they all take approximately the same damage from physical attacks.

    Here is a calc I did.

    Salamence Adamant 252 Att Dragon Claw vs 252 HP 252 Def Bold : Blissey - 37.5% - 44%
    Wigglytuff - 35% - 41%
    Clefable - 33% - 39%

    As you can see, Blissey only takes 3% more than Wigglytuff and 5% than Clefable. Not too much more.

    On the other hand --->
    Starmie Timid 252 Sp.Att Surf vs 252 HP 252 Sp.Def Calm :
    Blissey - 11% - 13%
    Wigglytuff - 29% - 34%
    Clefable - 25.5% - 30%

    That's significant difference.

    Blissey can use Counter much more efficiently than the others due to her high HP which means that everything hit by her Counter will die.

    Last, Blissey and Clefable have awesome abilities, with Clefable having the best ability of all 3 and Wigglytuff having the worst.

    I am pretty sure that Blissey is the best among the three, then comes Clefable and then Wigglytuff.

    I mean, Blissey can be used as an awesome Sp.Wall/ Cleric. It can even take physical hits approximately as well as the other two.

    Clefable may be used as a Tank or a decent Sp.Wall but she is completely outclassed by Blissey.

    Wigglytuff can't be used as a main wall or something. I don't know. She has a huge HP but her defenses don't help much. Also, she doesn't have instant recovery or a good ability. It could probably work as support with Wish.


    Does the fact though that Clefable is still able to take a physical hit better than Blissey make her better?

    I mean a standard EV spread for Blissey is 148 HP/ 252 Def/ 108 Sp.Def. She can wall special hits all day long and take a physical hit decently.

    Clefable's standard defensive set is max HP and Sp.Def . She can take special hits well but Blissey outclasses her seriously. Also with no Def EVs Blissey can take physical hits better than her.

    Wigglytuff is not good enough I think and I shouldn't compare it in the first place. Best defensive EV spread is sharing EVs in both defenses. This way though, Blissey can still take hits better in both sides.

    Wigglytuff is kinda out due to just passable defenses, bad ability and no instant recovery. It can't be an actual wall.

    Actual debate is between Clefable and Blissey.
    Blissey takes special hits much better.
    Clefable takes physical hits better but not too better(it's a difference of 10% at best). Usually Clefable will only endure one more hit than Blissey. Nothing dramatic though helpful.
    Both great abilities.
    Both great movepools, great support and instant healing.
    I think Blissey is better support though because even though both can be great clerics and supporters, Blissey shares much bigger Wishes.

    Who do you think is better?
     
  2. windsong

    windsong WEST SIDE

    Blissey is so much better than the others that it's not even funny.

    But you've got a bunch of facts wrong. All three can use Wish, and literally the only real merit that defensive Clefable has over Blissey is Magic Guard. Everything else has been said; Blissey takes hits significantly better, they both have effectively the same supporting movepool, and they both serve as defensively oriented mons.
     
  3. Ilan

    Ilan Well-Known Member

    Blissey: OU
    clefable: RU
    and wigglipuff no one uses..
    chansey is bulkier than all of them
    clefable have a bad defense not like blissey but still bad.
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2012
  4. Sante

    Sante Well-Known Member

    Windsong, I know they all have Wish. I meant that Clefable and Blissey have Softboiled as a better instant recovery move while Wigglytuff only has Wish to heal.
    Clefable has Magic Guard but Blissey has Natural Cure which is very good too. Magic Guard is still better but whatever. As you said, it's the only considerable merit of Clefable over Blissey. Clefable though can take physical hits a bit better which is quite beneficial however she is totally outclassed by Blissey at taking special hits.

    252 HP, 252 Sp.Def Calm Clefable still takes much more damage from special hits than 0 HP, 0 Sp.Def Neutral nature Blissey. Just imagine that.

    Anyway, I know Blissey is much better than Wigglytuff as she has better ability, better Sp.Def and HP and they both take physical hits just as well with only a small 2-3% difference.

    Clefable though has a nice ability, even nicer than that of Blissey, and she can take physical hits kinda better with a difference of 6-7% most times. Blissey is a better Special wall though and the only way to make Clefable take physical hits better than Blissey is to max Def and HP which leaves her quite vulnerable to special hits.

    So yeah I suppose Blissey is better. She is the one who is OU afterall.
     
  5. Lilia

    Lilia Well-Known Member

    Chansey can be added to this mix if we give her eviolite
     
  6. Ilan

    Ilan Well-Known Member

    Wigglytuff sucks..
    no one runs 0 HP blissey...
    I don't get this thread blissey is 100% superior to clefable.
     
  7. Dragonair2400

    Dragonair2400 Your average trainer

    Nobody actually uses wigglytuff. It's just not good. Clefairy/Clefable has some great moves though even at an early stage. I'm talking gen 1 by the way. So there's no blissey. Chansey is ok though.
     
  8. meteor64

    meteor64 Show Me Ya Noobs

    This is older gen discussion

    RBY Chansey > Blissey in any other gen. Its got a similar level of special bulk to bliss but with actual offense, and theres no special boosting moves to contend with outside of amnesia, which is fairly uncommon.

    To answer the topic, Bliss outclasses the other two by so much its not even funny. The only reason you'd ever use Clefable over Bliss is Belly Drum, and I wouldn't even advise that. Wigglytuff should never even be considered because its so horrifically bad in comparison and serves no alternative purpose.
     
  9. 5221A

    5221A Well-Known Member

    Blissy has a higher HP (BS 255), SpDef (135), Usalble SpAtk (75), Natural Cure, good support movepool, has wish and heal belland heal bell, can take physical hits well because of huge HP anas a low Spd(55). So yeah i think that Cleffairy nor Wigglytuf have those.
     
  10. dragonuser™

    dragonuser™ the greatest crisis

    Blissey has much better bulk/movepool than the other two, however I would say that Clefable is better than wigglytuff because of Magic Guard. Magic Guard lets Clefable be a potent wall (albeit mainly in lower tiers like RU), as it protects it from status/residual damage. Clefable also has boosting options in Cosmic Power, making it even harder to kill.
     
  11. meteor64

    meteor64 Show Me Ya Noobs

    I occasionally run 252 Def/252 Sp Def if I want added special bulk for some reason, eg solidly countering CM Zam, but thats really obscure and 99% of the time HP is better
     
  12. SoulDaze

    SoulDaze Lol.

    Blissey - 252 Sp. Def / 252 HP / 4 Defense. Leftovers, Natural Cure/Serene Grace. Bold/Careful nature. Basically if you don't want Thunder Wave, you could put Serene Grace for Body Slam. If you don't, then go with Natural Cure. Healer is useless in single battles.

    Wish ∙ Flamethrower/Focus Blast/Seismic Toss/Ice Beam ∙ Thunder Wave/Toxic ∙ Body Slam/Softboiled/Heal Bell/Aromatherapy
    Or you might as well want to put Protect on her. Clefable is good, Wigglytuff.....there's nothing else to say.
     
  13. Jasonx1998

    Jasonx1998 Member

    Blissey passes them with the blink of an eye I mean really, Blissey is a tank wigglytuff and clefable are ok i guess
     
  14. MatchMaster

    MatchMaster Member

    Blissey is the best of them. 255 HP / 135 SpD is so much special defense it isn't even funny; when people see it on team preview they have to make a strategy to take it down. Clefable only has slightly above average special bulk for OU, and Wigglytuff is let down by all its stats except HP.
     
  15. Ditto B1tch

    Ditto B1tch Well-Known Member

    Blissey is the best and some players call her as "blissey wall", an obstacle for special sweepers. Few Pokemons can damage all her HP bar in a single hit, Machamp's Cross Chop or Infernape's Close Combat, for example. However, Blissey's lacks on Defense, but that can be fixed with Defense Curl.
     
  16. Lion Demon

    Lion Demon Fairy Type Champion

    Dude, this is Generation 3. Anyways, Clefaible & Wigglytuff are more or less the same Pokemon in Generation 3 (except the fact that Clefable can learn Softboiled).
    Blissey is most definitely the competitive winner & always will be!
     
  17. McMuffinMan

    McMuffinMan New Member

    Clefable and Blissey both have different roles in matches. Clefable is a perfect dragon counter and has a pretty wide move pool. It learns fire blast which is good in taking out steel types, moonblast for dragons and ice beam for any leech seeders. Clefable also has magic guard which prevents over time damage. Blissey on the other hand is massive hp and spec def but it's mainly a support. So it really depends on your line up but I think both are crucial in winning. If it was Clefable vs Blissey in a 1v1, Clefable will win hands down.
     
  18. McDanger

    McDanger Well-Known Member

    closed for bumping
     
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