Cliché

[Tale]

Cliché

Cliché is a rather notorious aspect in story writing. Why?

Maybe its because people get bored of used ideas, and want to see something new in different stories. But if the story has a different plot altogether to other stories, why can't it be enjoyed because it has cliché aspects?

Just how bad is cliché?

Discuss everybody! Tell us your views!

 

[Gazmof]

The word cliche in itself is pretty broad. How can you define something as cliche?

To me as a reader, if a story has cliche aspects, I'm more than happy to overlook them if the plot itself is original, or at least fun to read. To an extent nearly all stories contain cliche in some way or another, it all depends on how the writer handles those aspects.

 

[Saya]

I don't think cliche is all bad in itself. Some people just can't stand cliche while others, like me, don't mind it at all as long as the author doesn't over do it. As the old saying goes 'There is nothing new under the sun', so going by that its kind of hard not have just a tiny bit of cliche in your story.

Cliche in a Pokemon fanfiction in my mind however, is a lot worse than cliche in other stories, mostly because the cliche people use is a Mary-Sueish character waking up on the day they are supposed to recieve their Pokemon and license late and arriving in their PJ's and then getting laughed at by everyone and burned by their rival, Gary-Stu, or something like that. The other kind of cliche is usually something about a n00b trainer recieving a Groudon as their starter and catching a Mew on their first day journeying. Those are the cliche's I can't stand.

But, if it's cliche in a non Pokemon fanfiction, say, something like an epic battle between good and evil, I'm okay with it. The old isn't always bad. Look at how many different versions there are of Cinderella and no one's gotten boared with that story yet (or, at least I have not). Well, I've got to go for now. I could ramble on about this subject for lengths and lengths of time, but I've got an Ortho appointement, so I'm going to have to close here. XP

~Saya~

 

[Guitar dude bill]

Well... when it gets cliche; it get's uninteresting. When it gets uninteresting, the reader dislikes it. When the reader doesn't like it, then they need to improve. Cliche is most definately not a good thing, but it can be covered up by twists and suspense. If you can add enough interest into your fan-fic; then the cliche can be covered. My favourite book is a bit cliche, but the interest, suspense and all that covered it up for me. It kinda made me more interested at looking what it was probably based on.

 

[Kiyohime]

Well, a cliche can work if the author's skilled enough to pull it off. If it truly is a tired, worn-out cliche like the ones Saya mentioned, it's really quite easy if you have a good enough imagination to change the premise. It should be a balance of maintaining a good story and good writing...yes, you want to please the readers and draw them in but you also want to please yourself, so if you want to write an OT, that's just as acceptable as writing a comedy or a fantasy tale. Writing a story is sort of like baking a cake, you have to have a well-measured mix of ingredients

 

[Mew King]

Yeah, cliches can be covered up.

I'll give two examples: a legendary starter or a legendary first Pokemon.

Legendary starter - Basically, in my (now dead before releasing) fic, One Twisted Day, the main character gets a Rayquaza as his starter because of a lab assistant's follies. Now, like any other level 70 legendary that didn't allow himself to be caught by this kid, the Rayquaza doesn't like him. I always made the Rayquaza try to kill the main character or hurt him greatly. Then, couple that with the reluctant main character (who hates adventures) and about 6 evil teams (Rocket, Magma, Aqua, etc.) and you will get a pretty funny comedy fic.

Legendary First Pokemon - Basically, all I do is either downplay the strength of the Pokemon, downplay the rarity (Celebi being the obvious choice for this one (look at all those Celebi in the 4th movie)), let everyone catch one, put in some sort or prophecy, or allow the trainer to catch the Pokemon after doing something very favorable for it (like risking your life to save the Pokemon).

That is what I'm familiar with. Don't steal my ideas for One Twisted Day.

 

[Act]

Cliche is the word reviewers use when they are worried about being too harsh and want to say a story was bad. The meaning has been warped and abused, really, and I'm not sure it means too much of anything anymore. Same goes for 'original,' but it's in a positive sense as opposed to a negative one.

 

[Negrek]

Most of what you guys are saying aren't cliches. They're bad things that one should not be doing in a 'fic, but they're not cliches.

A cliche is a phrase or idea that has been used so many times that it loses all meaning and impact. You hear cliches a lot in presidential or political speeches: they're things like the phrase "We're working to build a better tomorrow" or things that involve "this great land", etc. I wish I could find it, but I had this one book where someone wrote a parody of cliches using all cliche phrases--its was awesome.

So what you're talking about here is not so much the cliche, but theh warped plot points. Mary-Sues and Gary-Stus are not cliche; they're bad writing. Cliches are more things like characters who spout things like "Pokemon are all our friends!" and things like that. Stereotypical themes and the like are often cliche as well. There's only eighty-two billion 'fics out there that involve an absol who wangsts about how humans don't understand it. There are a ton of "renegade pokemorph runs away from Team Rocket and has adventures" 'fics. At last census there were eighty-seven thousand charmanders, growlithes, and assorted other fire-types named "Blaze."

A cliche is not a warping of normal character conventions; it's a tired convention, concept, phrase, or theme, that just isn't interesting anymore.

 

[The Big Al]

Cliches can be fun. Especially if you take a cliche from one genre and place it on another. FlamingRuby and I an tell you Looney Toons cliches can knock 'em dead when put in the Pokemon universe.

 

[Negrek]

And while we're on the subject (btw, this is one of the things I like to rant about, so be it over thine own head for bringing it up), it makes me grind my teeth whenever I see people say things like, "Well, I thoroughly enjoy twisting the cliche when I write my story."

You don't twist cliche. If you put a new spin on an old idea, it's just that; it's not taking a cliche and suddenly making it "original." Take, for example, the cliche of the "waking up to get pokemon." This is a cliche--it is a device used so often that it no longer has any excitement, mystery, or suspense associated with it. Now, some peole may say that their story starts out this way, but is not cliche because of other things that happen after it or because the way that the wakening is presented.

This is not true. You either have the character waking up on the day that they are to get their first pokemon or you don't. If you do have this and even if the rest of the piece does not even remotely resemble the "generic" journeyfic, the opening scene is still not a cliche, but not the entire piece. Opening your fic at a different point or scene entirely is not a "spin on the old cliche" but rather a different way of going about the story altogether. One does not modify a cliche to suddenly make it a non-cliche; cliches are very specific things, but people often apply them too broadly. It's not "sort of" cliche or "mostly" cliche: it either is or it isn't.

By the same token, OT stories are not cliche. They are a legitimate genre of fanfiction with their own generic conventions. Calling an OT story cliche is like calling a mystery cliche "because come on, every mystery I read is about somebody having to solve something." That is a generic convention of the mystery genre; the generic convention of an original trainer tale is that it involves a non-canon character who is a trainer of pokemon.

The OT genre is so often labeled as cliche because it has its own unique set of cliches that are easily recognizable to most readers. One of these is the "wake up, get pokemon, get outta here," scene. Another is the "oppressive parent refuses to allow child to leave on journey" plot device. No matter how you twist it, your story either includes this or it doesn't. If it doesn't, it's not some wildly original take on a cliche, but a different idea entirely. If it does, then boo-hoo, it's cliche. Deal.

About the only way to put a new spin on a cliche is through parody or humor. Poking fun at cliches by using them in a piece is examining the cliche and exploiting its weakness. The cliche remains the same, but the intention of it is different.

The danger that you run by using a lot of cliches is loss of impact with the story. Basically, it's a "been there, done that" effect. Cliches are so familiar and habitual, however, that they can also be used to harbor familiarity and comfort with a particular scene or character. They're something that readers will instantly recognize. They cannot hold up a story on their own, however. While in general it is best to avoid them wherever possible, it is not the end of the world if you use some. Your best bet is to be aware of what your cliches are, and consider whether they serve the story best or if they are merely a symptom of laziness, using a tried-and-true formula to approach your writing.

 

[indigestible_wad]

It is impossible for something to not be somehow cliche. There are things like phrases and pieces and bits of things that are stunningly overused, even if people don't know it. One phrase that jumps out at me is "stiff as a board."

Cliche is a bit of a fantasy, as well as something very real. You can't aviod it, but you can try to hide it best you can.

 

[IceKing]

Cliche does NOT nessecarily equal bad. I've read plenty of fics that had cliched beginnings and aspects but they were still wonderful reads and great fics. Just because a part of a story is cliched doesn't mean it will be boring as well. A kid can wake up late and go get a regular third starter, but that kid can still be one of the most entertaining charachters in pokemon history and his pokemon can be 00ber original. So yeah, I don't mind cliches too much as long as the story is still good.

Myself as a writer, I love making fun of cliches XD It's so incredibly fun! In the beginning of WIQ, I had the original trainer cliched dream be crashed by an annoying realistic viewer of pokemon training and a few other things. I also like making fun of charachters like makign most of my Nurse Joy's be secretely evil despite being super personality-less in the games/anime.

 

[Negrek]

One phrase that jumps out at me is "stiff as a board."

That's not a cliche, that's an idiom. 0_o

But in general, you're right. It's more or less impossible to avoid cliche altogether, but the moment you start using it as a crutch is the moment that you should be worried.

 

[Kiyohime]

Poo, Negrek, you beat me. D: (the idiom thing, I mean)

Generally, I think it's easy for anyone who's experienced enough to avoid using cliches as a crutch so there shouldn't be too much fuss.

 

[Wondrous Sableye]

Well, it seems that the concept of "cliché" is mistermed a lot these days. A cliché is a literary element that is strong overused, such as phrases, character types, storylines, etc.(e.g. "save the world from a criminal mastermind" plot, lovable clueless hero/heroine character, "avoid ____ like the plague" expression, you get the idea.)

And "stiff as a board" is an idiom, yes, but it's overused often enough to be considered a cliché.

There are some lesser-known clichés, the ones you don't hear about so much…Like cults with brainwashed followers and a leader with dreams of world conquest and/or destruction. That's one that you'd recognize if you know the backstory of games like Killer 7 and Resident Evil 4, the first and second episodes of FMA/HagaRen, and Castlevania:Aria of Sorrow. All of those feature a cult/cults prominently or else as a semi-major part of the story for that installment.

Those kind of… "sub-clichés," let's call them, are more likely to slip under the radar. But they're still clichés of a sort, so avoid them like the plague. Dammit, there's one now. XD

Anyway, if something works well for your story, but it's often used, you probably wouldn't change it just for the sake of the Cliché Police, particularly if it's a central part of your story.

I can't really say much more on the topic, being a mediocre writer at best <_<; So…yeah. o_o; I'll go away now.

*flees*

 

[FlamingRuby]

If you take a cliche and put a new twist on it, then it is by definition not a cliche.

Like The Big Al said, many cliches of one universe can work when put into another universe.

 

[Seijiro Mafuné]

Castlevania:Aria of Sorrow

Dawn of Sorrow. Not Aria.

 

[Wondrous Sableye]

Oh. Sorry, I tend to get those two mixed up. >_< Yeh. You understood what I was getting at, though, right?