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>>>> Closed Thread Container <<<<

Do you play with Nuzlocke rules?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 14 27.5%
  • No...

    Votes: 30 58.8%
  • What the hell is Nuzlocke?

    Votes: 7 13.7%

  • Total voters
    51
Status
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Sound

Well-Known Member
I agree and disagree with you. Pokemon is sort of outdated. The battle system maybe complicated when you get into IVs, EVs, and other competetive stuff, but absolutely none of that needs to be used in the actual game. Do you need a perfect IV and EV trained pokemon to beat the champion? No! I almost soloed the entire Elite Four of Black thanks to a Scrafty I'd been using since the desert route.

The only problem with what you want for the battle system is that, while it doesn't seem complicated, it will be. For example, What if a little kid is using his Gallade against a Hitmonlee? His Gallade uses Psycho cut, Hitmonlee uses High Jump kick to dodge it and attack. The kid goes WTH?! and tries it again. Fails again due to HJK. The kid trys Nightslash, same result. Leaf Blade, same. Hitmonlee is essentially able to win against Gallade because the Gallade only has physical moves, and no "block" moves that can stop it.

And I can tell you understand this is a kid's game series. I can also tell that you're trying not to make this too complicated. I hate to say this, but you're not doing the best job. Do you understand why we don't need EVs and IVs in the main game? Because the NPCs don't take advantage of them, either. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm pretty sure all NPC's pokemons have 1 IVs in each category, and no EVs. This means our Pokemon have an automatic advantage, even if they had terrible IVs and EVs. This system is also subtle enough that little kids have nothing to worry about when going into battle. If they did implement your system, it would have to see little use in the main game and more use in competetive, due to its complication. And, by extension, they wouldn't put nearly as much effort into it since the features couldn't be advertised without younger pokemons going "Whaaaaaa... How does that work?"

Although, quite honestly, turn based RPGs in these days are all pretty stale. Come on, is there really much difference between "Snivy, use tackle!" and "Cloud used Omnislash!" except for the end result. None of them ever bring anything substantial to the table. And don't say "Customization" or "Awesome Story". I mean battle mechanics. "Oh, there's a gauge that let's you do a super attack!" "There's multiple battles going on in multiple places at once!" "You can attack from the ground or fly into the air!" I really don't consider these to be too awesome. Your ideas I actually find pretty interesting.

All in all, your ideas on the battle system could and probably would work, just not in the Pokemon franchise. If you found a programmer and sprite artist crazy enough to take on your challenge and make a game like Pokemon with all that you'd probably be rich.
 

Zodiac Meteor

Active Member
The thing with % chances is that they don't give battles the diverse feeling. They take away strategy rather than add it.

Chess for example, always starts the same, no piece changes from match to match.
Yet there are millions of ways the game plays out. Pieces can be used in different ways, mistakes is only a human error, you can't gain a edge by luck.

Stone Edge for example, has a small chance to miss but a higher chance for a critical. Say you were down to your last Pokemon, your opponent has only 2 left. You use Stone Edge, criticals the Pokemon faints, your opponent sends out it's last Pokemon, Stone Edge hits, gets another critical and it faints.

The odds of this is of course very small, but the point is it doesn't add depth to the battle. Imagine playing chess, in order to take a queen you have to roll a dice and get a higher number.

Mixing strategy with luck is not a good thing.

I'm not saying luck is a deciding factor, if the battle system would be revamped there will be no need for % to burn or % for accuracy.

Recently I did a Triple battle with a skilled opponent that seemed to read my every move, like he was always one step ahead of me, he knew what I was going to do. I just couldn't predict him, his team wasn't the normal stereotypical meta Pokemon I keep fighting against. He ended up winning match.
After searching for another battle, I ran into the same guy.
This time around, I carefully choose my moves, I predicted his moves much better and I came out on top.

That's awesome, it was an intense battle against a equally skilled opponent. If the battle system could be revamped, it's focus would be about strategy.

The only problem with what you want for the battle system is that, while it doesn't seem complicated, it will be.
I see your point Sound, if it was to work well, it's got to have a good tutorial and build on the mechanics are the game goes.
Which Pokemon does pretty well already, Normal Type Pokemon are almost always the first Pokemon players encounters, only 1 weakness and can't hit only 1 type. Later on in the game the player is introduced to more types of Pokemon as well as building their own strategy.

I'd have to say it would be taking a risk, anyone can learn from a good tutorial and eventually master. I'd say it depends on the game rather than the player.
 
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~ I think its just fine the way it is. The game features in B/W were lame and a waste of space (ex. entralink and black city)
~ Using the gems for the shinies would be pointless because it takes away from the fact that the pokemon is an individual. Stones should be saved for evolution.
~ HMs should come built on pokemon types. If a pokemon is a flying type, it knows fly, if its water it knows waterfall, surf, etc. They should come as separate abilities. The only problem with that is that it would take away from using them in battle and/or would lead to pokemon being able to exceed the 4 move cap which i wouldnt enjoy very much.

Everything else is all good for me.
 

Flame Mistress

Well-Known Member
A game without luck is no fun. You need a few twists and turns here and there to make the battle more interesting.

If you are a truly skilled battler, you should be able to find a way around unexpected situations. If there isn't a thing such as possibility, the game gets boring as the battle becomes too easy to predict.
 

DemDemon

Idealist Trainer
The Apocalypse of Pokemon

Yes, yes, it is true... there are thousands of legions of Pokemon fans... but very few, one being me, believe in something. Here's the story:
Pokemon started off to a good start. In Kanto, there were no significant legendaries that created the world or anything. Johto was a successful continuation of Kanto. Hoenn was an attempt to try something new. It was a new continent, new storyline. New all-creating legendaries, two new villainous teams based off of the legendaries. Next, we took a cruise to Sinnoh, and by then, scientific study had advanced, with most knowing about space and time, there was the theme. Earlier, Groudon and Kyogre created the world as we knew it. Now, it appears as Dialga and Palkia created the world as we know it AND the other pokemon were created by Mew (whose origin is unknown). Watevs. Enough to live with. But THEN, we dive into eastern Buddhism and learn about the balance of everything, and how the world as we know it is glued together by Zekrom and Reshiram, the all-powerful pokemon of Yin and Yang. We know are forced to believe that Dialga, Palkia, and Mew are all dependent upon Zekrom and Reshiram. If the Pokemon Trainer Game series is to continue, then they have only one last slim chance to bide their survival -- Reality versus Fantasy. That is the last straw. There is nothing beyond that within the Pokemon fans' comprehension. There are several problems with this title. First of all, since the beginning of Pokemon, most of it has been occupied by reality. I say most. The rest (a big chunk in BW) is settled in pokemon dreams, other dimensions, and dark powers held by legendary pokemon. Reality and fantasy are overused. Otherwise, Pokemon may succeed on this. After that, they're dead.
You may post negative comments.
You may do anything to disagree with me.
Because even I, the one who posted this, hope that someone will prove me wrong.
Because after Pokemon ends, where would all of us be?
:579:
 

epic man

STOP ACTA EVERYWHERE
we would all be 40 year old fan boys ;D

it won't end at least till' 7th gen, and that is nearly impossable!

nintendo will think of something!
 

krakket

Active Member
Pokémon hasn’t evolved much from the days in Red or Blue, heck, Charzard still has the 8-bit sound file in Pokémon Black and White; a sound effect that’s 12 years old. I dare anyone to transfer Hypno to Black and White then not laugh hysterically. It’s atmospheric breaking, going from the Togekiss smooth wave voice to something like DUN-DA-DA-DUN-DA-DA-ZA-ZA from Hypno.

I see that as a good thing and I think alot of other people would too. Nostalgia is a big part of pokemon for me and alot of other older players. I think the old school 8bit sounds are sweet and think its great nintendo kept them. We're used to how Charizard sounds.

I think it's the same thing with the battle system. Why change a good thing everybody loves? It's worked for 12 years, it'll work for another 20 (haha, exageration much. pokemon will never die lol...) Start changing pokemon into a new game and you'd lose a lot of people.
 

Lulu_used_SunnyDay

Petal Blizzard
I've read all what you had to say about the game mechanics.....

All I have to say is this: The way you want it, it would be a good game, but it wouldn't be pokemon anymore. The mechanics of the game are fine as they are.

And about the cries, the only thing that amazes me, about the older ones, is how they DON'T sound any older than the new ones despide being more than 10 years older!
 

blaze boy

Aka SamuraiDon
The thing with % chances is that they don't give battles the diverse feeling. They take away strategy rather than add it.

Luck does add strategy. Pokémon can only learn 4 moves which mean the trainer have to think carefully which move they want to teach to the pokémon and if it works for the team.

Also if you take away the % chance then some ability will become broken. So what you are asking is complety breaking the pokémon game is not needed.


Chess for example, always starts the same, no piece changes from match to match.

You cannot compare Chess with a Pokémon they are completely different and not the same.

I don't think you understand how the Pokémon game works.
 

pseudoman

Well-Known Member
I always imagined that next gen would have more ET pokemon, either that or pokemon based on greek mythology.
 

streetlightdsb

Uni hiatus
The thing with % chances is that they don't give battles the diverse feeling. They take away strategy rather than add it.
I disagree with this. Yes, it takes away some of the strategy, but it definitely makes the battles more unpredictable and diverse.
A game without luck is no fun. You need a few twists and turns here and there to make the battle more interesting.

If you are a truly skilled battler, you should be able to find a way around unexpected situations. If there isn't a thing such as possibility, the game gets boring as the battle becomes too easy to predict.

This is a good point, as there are ways to minimise the chances of luck. Use more accurate moves, don't stall and inevitably get critted etc. Besides Zodiac, if you are as good as you say, then you should be able to get past instances of hax by being better. I can't tell you the number of times where hax has screwed me over and I've still come out on top.

Basically the luck factors are what makes this game special. You know how they go on in the games about how anyone can be a great trainer if they believe in their Pokemon? Yeah that theme extends to the lucky stuff too, as it shows that anyone, ANYONE, can beat even the best opponent if they get a bit of luck. Even the kids that are terrible at the game can beat the champion and become a Pokemon master. It's what the games are about.
 

Kevin Servo

Well-Known Member
Here's hoping the anime falls so hard that it leaves a large gaping hole where it once stood years before this "Pokemon Apocalypse" occurs.

The only downside is that Pokemon Adventures would end, plus there'd probably be a lack of manga like DPA or ReBURST to give a few alternate takes on the Pokemon World.
 

Asbestospoison

Excellent Driver
Pokemon won't end, probably ever. Even if GF runs out of ideas, which I doubt could even be considered for several more generations, you still have side games, fan games, and the fans themselves. If the Pokapocalypse did ever happen, we would probably be discussing stuff as usual, from competitive battling to anime. Generations 1 and 2 still have people playing them, so I expect that Pokemon will still be around by the time I'm dead.

I always imagined that next gen would have more ET pokemon, either that or pokemon based on greek mythology.
Pokemon based on Greek and Norse mythology would be awesome. There are plenty of places for inspiration. The only problem I can think of is Greek mythology has been used so often, pokemon based off of say, Cerebus would seem unoriginal and cliche. Norse mythology wouldn't have that problem though. Not nearly as many people know what Ratatosk is, or who Ymir was.
 

blaze boy

Aka SamuraiDon
Even the kids that are terrible at the game can beat the champion and become a Pokemon master. It's what the games are about.

This.

what you have to remember is that children are stupid when it comes to pokémon. They just pick the strongest pokémon or just stick with their starter through out the whole game.

With your method, Zodiac Meteor would not only make the game unyable to them but would also make it broken. Thus turning people off the pokémon game and sales would drop.
 

RobertStyx

Well-Known Member
This actually sums up for me why the first two generations were the best. They had no OTT BS story, that is completely unnecessary. The stories in the recent games are so convoluted, pointless and unbelievable (in the bad way) that they make the games worse IMO.
 

Asbestospoison

Excellent Driver
This actually sums up for me why the first two generations were the best. They had no OTT BS story, that is completely unnecessary. The stories in the recent games are so convoluted, pointless and unbelievable (in the bad way) that they make the games worse IMO.
While I'm not disagreeing with you, I personally don't think the stories are convoluted at all. In DPP, it's just: "I want to destroy this world, and create a new one without emotion!" In BW, it's really the same thing, just replace "Emotion" with "Humans", and add a fairly predictable plot twist in that
Ghestis is evil.
Personally, I'd like to see better storylines, rather than a boring one. And anyways, the games are about kidnapping animals with inexplicable powers and making them fight each other in apparently legal matches. Are the stories that unbelievable by comparison?
 

PokeTimmy

Collector
I feel like Pokemon has attempted to create a "new start" with the Unova region, and that its 'creation story' must be taken as separate and distinct from the creation story thus far.

In my mind, Unova is very far away from the other regions and it was created separately from the Arceus/Palkia/Dialga creation method of the other regions. Evidence of this lies in the fact that Unova is based upon New York City, which is thousands upon thousands of miles away from the Japanese areas upon which Kanto/Johto/Sinnoh/etc. are based.

Therefore, this physical separation leaves open the possibility a whole new story to be told as to the creation of pokemon and the world - basically the Zekrom/Reshiram story.

But PokeTimmy, aren't there Pokemon from earlier regions in Unova?

Yes, but a Ranger on Route 15 (I think thats the location) tells you that she is investigating the claim that Pokemon from other regions have been coming to Unova through the PokeTransfer system and escaping into the area (aka - the Routes surrounding the PokeTransfer). So, if not for the PokeTransfer, there would be no way for the earlier generations of pokemon to be found in Unova - because it is a completely new and different world.
 

Bluekit121

Little Miss Lucario
I do agree that the way you want the storyline to go it would be enjoyable, possibly, but it wouldn't feel like I was playing Pokemon.
And, I also have to disagree with you about your bit about Pokemon cries. I know that the old sounds from the original 151, for some people, seem old and they want them to change and sound to fit the days now. But for hardcore Pokemon fanatics like me, they bring back Pokemon RBY nostalgia.
 

krakket

Active Member
what you have to remember is that children are stupid when it comes to pokémon. They just pick the strongest pokémon or just stick with their starter through out the whole game.

Yeah. Remember having one lv.100 pokemon and all the others like, 40? Haha. Kids are the main focus for creating pokemon games and they wouldn't benefit at all from a more complicated system. But it would be really cool to see somebody create a fan game or hack using different mechanics.
 

Excitable Boy

is a metaphor
I read the changes proposed under "deep battle system," and I think that they would be best used in a 3D Mystery Dungeon game, akin to a platformer. Probably not the whole dodging and blocking thing, but the rest of it would fit in fairly well to that sort of game.

Just remember that Pokemon is a turn-based game intended for small children.
 
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