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>>>> Closed Thread Container <<<<

Do you play with Nuzlocke rules?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 14 27.5%
  • No...

    Votes: 30 58.8%
  • What the hell is Nuzlocke?

    Votes: 7 13.7%

  • Total voters
    51
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Not open for further replies.

jstinftw!

hey trainer
First of all, Pokemon is not a kids game. ANYONE with a DS in their house plays the new Pokemon games, but they're just so lost/uninterested now that they quite. Calling Pokemon a kids game is like calling Mario, or Zelda a kids game. And YOU tell a kid to do all this math involved with Pokemon; see how much of a kids game it is then.

Second of all, yes. There is no right or wrong way to play Pokemon. Wrong way; playing Black/White with a Game Boy Color. Playing it with a PS3. Throwing the cartridge at passing object/people. Right way of playing; using the appropriate system for the game. Turning the power on. Saving. Loading. Walking around. You can run in circles for all I care, if you can get the game to function, you're playing it right.

You see, the answer to this entire thread is Ignorance. Intolerance. And Rage. Maybe a little bit of Childishness or Naivety to be safe. And of course the 'Soul of Pokemon.'

Ignorance or lack of knowledge. People don't understand, don't know, so they take the first opinion stated to them, and assume the worst out of something they have no grasp on. Or they don't know anything about Competitive Battling, so they hate on those who do to no end because they simply do not know/understand.

Ignorance is your new best friendagain. People do not understand that Smogon does not just go around blessing certain Pokemon with certain move sets/stats/whatevers and put them in OU/RU/NU/whatever. YOU. The player. YOU decide that. Smogon's tiers are based on use. If suddenly the whole world decided Splash+Bounce Magikarp with Rattled was the best Pokemon ever, and everyone had one on their team, it would become OU.

Intolerance, or BLAH BLAH BLAH MY OPINION IS THE ONLY ONE THERE IS. Once they've learned a little, they decide to block out all other opinions. Their own opinion is the only correct one, and anyone who tries to even just reason with them is attacking them, and they go on the defensive, and no one tries to learn, or accept. Intolerance also leads to people being intolerant of those who otherwise would leave them alone.

Intolerance, except the other way around. There are a handful of Smogonites that are spiteful, are rude, are intolerant. Heck, some are here on Serebii too, but the OP is why Serebii users hate Smogon. This is why.

Rage. WHOA!? WHAT IS THIS!? WHAT. IS. THIS!??? GARCHOMP IS SUCH A BEAAAAST! I'M GONNA USE HIM! Wait. He's banned? Darn. Well. HEY! EXCADRILL IS A BEAST IN SANDSTORM! HAHA! THEY'LL NEVER- Wait. Him too? Uhh... Ok. Well. I can use Thundurus! PRANKSTER+AWESOME STABS+DECENT MOVEPOOL!? OH YEAH HERE WE- HEY! HE'S BANNED TOO! WHAT GIVES!? ARE YOU. WHAT IS. I. BUT. ARIOHBIAHGHABOIBVIHAIVA. SMOGON SUCKS FOR DOING THIS! I CAN'T STRATEGIZE BEYOND BASIC PLOW THROUGH STRATEGIESI CAN'T USE MY FAVORITE POKEMON BECAUSE THEY'RE BANNED!
(Ties in to Ignorance/Intolerance. Smogon does not force anyone to play by any rules. Smogon just has its own set of rules and, low and behold, they actually do somewhat work. So everyone is over there, playing by those rules, but if you don't like it, by all means don't. I PROMISE. No one will die/suffer a heart attack/get mad/rage/commit suicide or genocide because you didn't play Smogon rules. I don't play by Smogon rules; VGCs FTW.)

Rage, 20 PP, 20 Damage, 100% Acc, and Physical.
I lost. I lost again. What? Why isn't my team winning? Ugh. Same Pokemon over and over again. Why can't I win?
Basically, a lot of people lose while playing Smogon rules. A lot of people don't like to lose, especially in large quantities that aren't spread out. Not Smogon's fault, but everyone needs something big to blame. Smogon just put a nice red bow on their heads by a.)Creating the rules b.)Creating analyses for Pokemon c.)Becoming known for them.

I guess that^ ties in with Intolerance and Ignorance though. It's not their fault that you don't know the specifics/logistics/mechanics of the game. It's also not their fault if they put a lot of time/effort/knowledge into Pokemon. But it's there; to say "HEY. You shouldn't be thinking so much when it comes to playing Pokemon!" is like saying "HEY! You're actually thinking! That's bad and now you're playing it wrong!" Plus, if you were winning, you wouldn't care if they put 1000000 hours into their game (I know, it stops at 999:99). You won, so no complaints, right?

And then for the other percent that argues for the "Spirit of Pokemon," Smogon's never said anything against that. I'm pretty sure there are tons of Smogonites that love their Pokemon to death as well. They just like to win, and are willing to put a little/lot more effort in winning than others. It's like the Olympics; they train their Pokemon to do well. If you don't train for the Olympics, you don't do well (unless you're EXTREMELY lucky). No, you train your Pokemon to be as good as the other competitors.

Now, say, you're some random guy on the street and you try to beat the Olympic trained athlete. Usually, doesn't work. Same with Pokemon, only instead of using your body, you're using numbers. Does that mean they're any less of a 'soul'? No. Not necessarily. Sure, some will, some view them that way. But that's not a Smogon specific problem, nor is Smogon the root of it. Some people just aren't that into Pokemon. Again, not Smogon's fault.

Again, I will reiterate because this is important.
1. No one is forcing you to use any Pokemon.
2. No one is forcing you to play by Smogon rules.
3. Tiers are based on how often certain Pokemon are used. YOU, the player, decide what is OU, RU, etc.
4. Bans are there for a reason. Why don't I bring my Mewtwo out while they use a Butterfree! Hmmm.... I WONDER WHO'LL WIN?
5. You can't avoid rude people; don't join them and blindly hate on someone/something who's innocent.
6. POKEMON IS NOT A CHILDREN'S GAME. IT IS A GAME. PERIOD. You can put a lot of work, and thought into it, or you can mindlessly derp around in the game. Neither make it a children's game. It's aimed at children, yes, but that doesn't make it a children's game. Nintendo's just smart enough to create games that appeal to varying age groups ranging from 4 years old-99+.
7. There isn't a wrong way to play the game. Just play.
8. The 'Spirit of Pokemon' does not go away when you train them competitively. YOU are what determines whether your Pokemon is a mindless killing machine or your partner. You can derp around in circles in-game if you want; doesn't make your Pokemon any more or less of an individual. It's YOUR PERSPECTIVE.


tl;dr Go away then. This is a discussion; if you can't read an argument, well, I'm sorry. This isn't the place for you. Go read, I don't know, a comic book or something. Go to the Polls section and click Yes/No/Maybe/Kanto/Blue or whatever. Maybe make a quick post on why you agree/disagree/have no oppinion/like Kanto/blue is your favorite color.

(Disclaimer: I'm sorry if I sound rude, harsh, mean, etc. I'm on Rage Mode from reading about SOPA/PIPA and it's carrying over. I'm not just pulling this out of thin air though; everything I said up there^ is still true. Just blunt.)

EDIT: Complaints about OU being boring? I'll give you that. :)
Honestly, if you don't care about JUST winning, and you want to see some interesting strategies flying around, go lower tier. RU, NU, UU, etc. Those all get kind of interesting. And if worse comes to worse, check out VGC. Few bans, no tiers, just check it out if you're that desperate.
But don't get mad at Smogon for that. You wanna shake it up? YOU be the difference. Stop complaining at others to make the change.
 
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jstinftw!

hey trainer
You don't get bonus super uber cool points in a battle for using a "unique" set. You either win or you lose.

That is true, but a lot of trainers (I included) joined the online community for battles because we wanted something interesting. We wanted battles that were actually complicated, and we'd have to really better ourselves as trainers/battlers to do well. We wanted to sit down, really come up with some strategies to maximize our team's effectiveness, and hope we'd win.

But that's the main point of that statement. Smogon's not big on original sets, I admit.
 

Schade

Metallic Wonder
You don't get bonus super uber cool points in a battle for using a "unique" set. You either win or you lose.

But there is no point in battling if you don't enjoy it.
this is my opinion, as i am not a competitive battler.
 
You know, why don't the people who don't like Smoogon just not pay attention to them? For one, I never listen to review sites. I just play how I want to play.
 
Smogon's not big on original sets, I admit.

If they'd list new original sets in their analysisses, the sets become standard and will not be seen as original anymore. When I was a competitive battler, I rarely revealed my own made sets and EV spreads with others, in order to keep them original, so I would have a surprise adventage. I think my 4th gen UU RestTalk Milotic with original and own-made EV spread is good enough for the analysis (no arrogance intended, sorry, that set did really awesome), but I don't want it to be there.

But there is no point in battling if you don't enjoy it.
this is my opinion, as i am not a competitive battler.

That's why I used favourites when I played competitive, because I can't enjoy battling with Pokemon I don't like, or without favourites.
 
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Schade

Metallic Wonder
That's why I used favourites when I played competitive, because I can't enjoy battling with Pokemon I don't like, or without favourites.

Now that's the spirit! I like that..
 

randomspot555

Well-Known Member
But that's the main point of that statement. Smogon's not big on original sets, I admit.

What is an "original" set?

I hate to break it to you, but some of these Pokemon have been around for 10+ years. And some items, like the Choice items, don't require a whole lot of thinking in order to best utilize them. Band=sink EVs into Atk and speed. Scarf: Sink EVs into offense and speed. Specs. Sp Atk and Speed.

So what happens when someone comes in to Pokemon in year 2012? There's only a limited amount of sets that can be made and still be useful. Are you going to scold them for not coming up with something "creative" even though most useful sets have been thought up by the thousands upon thousands of people that came before them?

And what you're talking about, challenging battles, that's EXACTLY what the environment that Smogon strives for. There's all KINDS of teams that people use on PO and on Wi-Fi. If you think things are too standard, SHAKE IT UP. Use something different and show everyone how powerful it can be. And if you think things are too standard, then start winning with something that isn't. It's just all too often, these "creative" sets also suck.

In fact, these people going "psh tiers are BS" are striving for an evironment where only the most powerful survive. And that's it. Without tiers, without organization, it'll all be Mewtwo, Kyogre, Exacadril, Palkia, etc... and that's it. Butterfree, Typhlosion, etc... won't stand a chance.


But there is no point in battling if you don't enjoy it.
this is my opinion, as i am not a competitive battler.

Now that's the spirit! I like that..

So you slam people who use "standard" (whatever that is) sets, so show people how good these mysterious non-standard sets that you use are.
 
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Schade

Metallic Wonder
Nononono, you got me wrong!!!!
I am just saying, that in my poinion, that was the starting point, compettiive sets are standard due to the fact that practically everyone uses them because they are the best sets, and have the biggest chance of gaining you victory, and I like my pokemon to be personal instead of some clone of everyone else's. And I have no interest in that. Besides, I don't play competitive, so I don't know much about that..
 

GhostAnime

Searching for her...
AquaticMilotic said:
think my 4th gen UU RestTalk Milotic with original and own-made EV spread is good enough for the analysis

RestTalk
Leftovers Calm
Moveset EVs
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass
252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD

Even though Milotic has access to Recover, there are certain advantages to a Sleep Talk set for a Pokémon such as Milotic. The most significant one is Marvel Scale. Milotic's unique ability increases its Defense by 50% whenever it is affected by a status, which means that while Resting, Milotic is extremely difficult to take down. The other is that Milotic often finds itself as the target of status such as Toxic, which it wants to get rid of as quickly as possible. Surf and Ice Beam comprise the standard Water-Ice offensive pairing, giving the best two-move coverage that Milotic can find. Hidden Power Grass also provides useful coverage, allowing Milotic to hit opposing Water-types such as Feraligatr and Slowbro, but renders you unable to hit Altaria or Grass-types.

The EVs give maximum physical bulk, while still preventing Moltres from 3HKOing Milotic with Hidden Power Grass. This also makes Milotic an extremely effective mixed wall with the Defense boost from Marvel Scale, achieving 394 HP / 366 Defense / 330 Special Defense while sleeping.


Look what we have here. A closet Smogonite. I can see through your clones, Missy.
 
RestTalk
Leftovers Calm
Moveset EVs
~ Rest
~ Sleep Talk
~ Surf
~ Ice Beam / Hidden Power Grass
252 HP / 200 Def / 56 SpD

Even though Milotic has access to Recover, there are certain advantages to a Sleep Talk set for a Pokémon such as Milotic. The most significant one is Marvel Scale. Milotic's unique ability increases its Defense by 50% whenever it is affected by a status, which means that while Resting, Milotic is extremely difficult to take down. The other is that Milotic often finds itself as the target of status such as Toxic, which it wants to get rid of as quickly as possible. Surf and Ice Beam comprise the standard Water-Ice offensive pairing, giving the best two-move coverage that Milotic can find. Hidden Power Grass also provides useful coverage, allowing Milotic to hit opposing Water-types such as Feraligatr and Slowbro, but renders you unable to hit Altaria or Grass-types.

The EVs give maximum physical bulk, while still preventing Moltres from 3HKOing Milotic with Hidden Power Grass. This also makes Milotic an extremely effective mixed wall with the Defense boost from Marvel Scale, achieving 394 HP / 366 Defense / 330 Special Defense while sleeping.


Look what we have here. A closet Smogonite. I can see through your clones, Missy.

My 4th gen UU RestTalk Milotic has a very different EV spread. My own made EV spread is more offense-minded. That's not my RestTalk Milotic spread. That's the standard one, which is not mine.

I am a former Smogonite, but I left after a month, after being bullied.

I only said I think that my spread could be good enough for the analysis, but I never posted my spread in public.
 
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girazard

IT'S A TRAP!!!
But there is no point in battling if you don't enjoy it.
this is my opinion, as i am not a competitive battler.

What if I enjoy winning?

You know, why don't the people who don't like Smoogon just not pay attention to them? For one, I never listen to review sites. I just play how I want to play.

Why indeed.
 
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GhostAnime

Searching for her...
Who cares. It can't be that drastically different. Also, I really doubt you are the only person who makes offensive-minded Sleep Talk tanks. Just because it's not on Smogon's main Milotic page doesn't mean it's not in a popular topic somewhere.

My point is this: you aren't unique. Hardly ever. Learn to separate "Useful sets" from the word "Smogon" and "Oh, they're just uncreative and boring".
 
No set is original. There's probably someone else over the rainbow who had Brick Break on their Gothitelle :p

Point is; others have the same idea.
 
Who cares. It can't be that drastically different. Also, I really doubt you are the only person who makes offensive-minded Sleep Talk tanks. Just because it's not on Smogon's main Milotic page doesn't mean it's not in a popular topic somewhere.

My point is this: you aren't unique. Hardly ever.

I care. Because what you said, "Look what we have here. A closet Smogonite. I can see through your clones, Missy." is a really mean and unfair accusion! By the way, I'm male, so "Missy" is not right.

OK, sorry. I don't care that much if I'm unique. It's nice, but not of vital importance. I know I'm not the only one who ever made an offensive RestTalker not in the analysis. I just said that about my own EV spread to show that creativity has the adventage of surprise, but not when it gets popular and ends up reaching the analysis and becoming standard. And my spread is drastically different from the Smogon standard. I didn't try to brag with originality. I apologize if it seemed like I did.

No set is original. There's probably someone else over the rainbow who had Brick Break on their Gothitelle :p

Point is; others have the same idea.

Every set has been original when it was just made up. Every set has been created by somebody... But it is true, that even if you create a new set, somebody somewhere in the world might have made a set like yours.
 
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Schade

Metallic Wonder
It still makes them personal.
I bet about a million others have a shiny Metagross with Adamant nature.
But i just gave mine a cute nicname and a neat moveset, and it has gotten very personal to me.
 

Marbi Z

Cin-Der-Race!
I personally don't have any problems with smogon. It's just geared toward more competitive players. That said its still a good alternative source for the effects of moves and items.
 

Grey Wind

Well-Known Member
Smogon? that other Pokemon Site?
I haven't even heard of it.
Or.. I have seen the word Smogon around, but never understood wth it was
Other site? You say that as if there are only two Pokemon sites on the internet.

You know, why don't the people who don't like Smoogon just not pay attention to them? For one, I never listen to review sites. I just play how I want to play.
Exactly. It doesn't affect you if you don't play, so why complain?
 

kaiser soze

Reading ADWD
Guess what? I run 252 HP EVs on my Cloyster sets. It's not part of the Smogon analysis. OMG I'm like so original. But seriously, their analysis in no way claim to cover every and all options, just the most common successful ones. And having a different EV spread doesn't make you original.
 
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