>>>> Closed Thread Container <<<<

[jstinftw!]

There really shouldn't be any argument here.. Some people hate Smogon, some people love it. It's not a big deal, and people shouldn't need a reason for liking it or disliking it. Personally I don't care about it either way.

You're half-right.

I applaud your open-mindedness. That is good, cos it shows that you understand that there are two sides, and neither side is either right or wrong. And it isn't a big deal when you are solely dealing with "Do you like/dislike Smogon."

But first, you are posting in a forum, a discussion thread at that. This is not a poll, where your answers are strictly 'this' or 'this.' The question is "Why do so many Serebii users have a problem with Smogon?" That of course requires more than 'this' or 'that'. You have to explain. If you decide to post a response on a discussion thread, it's only reasonable to expect a response.

Now, on a discussion forum, there will be people that disagree. That is "I hate Smogon because of reasons, usually misconceptions." That is when people come in and try to enlighten them, because they are misinformed. They are entitled to, at least, the right to be knowledgeable. Remember, "knowing is half the battle."

Ok, so we have people trying to educate. Truthfully, some people are too defensive, or lack the proper explanation skills. They're not eloquent with their explanation and that can spark some undeserved hostility from either side. But on the flip -side of that, you have people who are adamant about their ignorance. You tell them 2+2=4 and they argue that no, it's got to 5 or something else. And they stick to it.

If you noticed, no one's jumped on anyone who merely stated they liked/disliked Smogon.

I have no gripes with Smogon, competitive battling just isn't for me.

No one replied to this.

Personally I don't care for Smogon. Does that mean I hate them or "Have a problem" with them? No. I believe that everyone should be able to play the way they want.

I don't bash Smogon because they play differently then me, and I expect them to do the same for me(which they do).

Everyone just needs to relax and have fun. It is just a game, after all.

Or this.

Stating your opinion is fine, and generally does not call for discussion, as demonstrated above. Calling Smogon a bunch of jerks, or elitists, or assholes, or pale nerds with nothing better to do with their time does, however. Also, if you pay attention, most of the competent debaters in this thread argued against reasons like the ones stated, because they are unfair, and wrong. Not all are jerks. Or elitists, etc. (I say most because some people do argue the SMOGON IS GOD point and that's just. Wrong. Or too much, whatever).

But just having an opinion is fine. You can hate all of Smogon's guts for all anyone cares, but if you post it online, in a discussion thread, be ready. That's just it. What you say belongs to everyone once you post it on a forum; if you can't back yourself up, just be ready. Because this is a discussion thread, which means there will be an argument of some sort.

Still, somebody not presenting a reason for disliking something doesn't mean their dislike is 'invalid.'

Let's say I disliked you because you eat children and you smell like a horse. Wouldn't my reason be invalid?
Or let's make it more realistic and say you are. Immoral. And you are a skank, you cheater, and I hate you.

My reason for disliking you (I believe, because I do not know you at all) is 'invalid.'

And what does that have to do with Smogon? Well, let's say you are Smogon. And instead of accusing them of eating children, smelling like a horse, being immoral, a skank, and a cheater, we accuse them of being self-righteous. Elitist. Pompous jerks. Pale nerds. Over-centralizing a metagame. These ominious beings that force everyone to play with Pokemon they don't like just to win. None of these are true. They are the kingdom in my analogy making rules for the own site, minding pretty much their own business. And everyone is copying them, borrowing/taking from them, and using them as well, making people who do not agree with these changes upset and angry. They are not informed, so they come up with different reasons. Some are simple misunderstandings, others are just ignorance taking the form of self-righteousness.

But in the end, they are being bashed for reasons they do not entirely deserve.

THAT is why the good debaters on this thread are debating. And THAT is what they are debating for.

 

[Diz~]

If I was a smogonite, I wouldn't honestly care what people be saying, whether it was true or false. There always someone be hating. I doubt many Smogon actually care if there are people who hate on them. Because in their mind set, they would think the hater are just jealous. That is the likely mind set and pretty normal too.

Same way in real life. If a person got someone who actually doesn't like that person for no apparent reason at all. Does that person planning to change their mind? I wouldn't do it, it not really worth the time. Also, I would not care either, it honestly not my problem. But for some reason if a person is reacting to the hate and actually caring. That just give more reason not to like them and just to mess with them more and call them all kind of name.

But if people planning to keep on saying that other people have no right to hate on another person because they have no right to. Good luck on that. Because in reality, there will be people who won't like it and can never change it.

Now excuse me while I go kick some Smogon's butt in their server.

*stay hiding under my bridge with a fish line to a cookie as bait*

 

[Hidden Power]

"It's so obvious that it's cheating that it has to be elitism keeping it alive."

Really, now?



Not really.



Manipulating the time that I turn on my game and the buttons that I press? What a hacker I am.

You could use the improbability argument for anything else in the game. I can argue that your Serious 21/9/17/3/14/27 Blaziken you got from Professor Birch is hacked because you turned on your game at a certain time and pressed certain buttons on the start-up screen.

Sure, you can argue that way, but the question here is whether the said person obtained the Blaziken by chance, or intentionally via some program (RNG abuse)? And I highlight the word intentionally because it pretty much sums up my definition of cheating. If it is not the intention of the game designer to let you meet the desired Pokemon at a higher probability than what the odds are generated in-game, and you somehow bypasses that barrier to do so, you're cheating in my book. Does it matter whether you use AR or external programs for cheating? Not to me. Does it matter whether someone can tell the difference between a randomly encountered shiny Pokemon and one intentionally met using RNG abuse? Not to me.

If someone cheated on a test, there's a good chance that you cannot tell from the said person's test score that he cheated (Hello, RNG abuser). But if if I somehow find out, such as seeing you in the action of cheating (by my personal definition, as in the case of RNG abuse), I'll definitely be irked. I'll probably get over it soon, but you shouldn't brag to me about how you 'met' a shiny Pokemon and expect me to be as excited as you and congratulate you on how "lucky" you are, since it's in a totally different context.

And to be honest, the only good reason perfect IV Pokemon are desirable is for battling, and we have simulators for people who "have no time to breed and train". The only good reason shiny Pokemon are desirable is partly due to their rarity and partly due to the nicer colour scheme (for some Pokemon), and you're diluting the rarity component of it. I would like to say "What for?", but I think it's pretty obvious that these people just want to gain an unfair edge over others while convincing themselves that it's "semi-legit" for all kinds of weird reasons that you only find when it comes to cheating/maniputing on video games.

 

[Diz~]

People like shiny stuff.

 

[Hidden Power]

People like shiny stuff.

And your point is...?

 

[jstinftw!]

If I was a smogonite, I wouldn't honestly care what people be saying, whether it was true or false. There always someone be hating. I doubt many Smogon actually care if there are people who hate on them. Because in their mind set, they would think the hater are just jealous. That is the likely mind set and pretty normal too.

Same way in real life. If you got someone who actually doesn't like you for no apparent reason at all. You planning to change their mind? I wouldn't do it, it not really worth the time. Also, I would not care either, it honestly not my problem. But for some reason if a person is reacting to the hate and actually caring. That just give more reason not to like them and just to mess with them more and call them all kind of name.

But if people planning to keep on saying that other people have no right to hate on another person because they have no right to. Good luck on that. Because in reality, there will be people who won't like you and you can never change it.

Now excuse me while I go kick some Smogon's butt in their server.

*stay hiding under my bridge with a fish line to a cookie as bait*

Diz would you please just stop replying? I wasn't talking to you, I was answering Mortimer's question. And you rarely have anything intelligent to contribute to the discussion besides "I hate things. Deal with it."

We all know that you like to hate things. For no reason. And you like to say mean things about the innocent things you are hating on. You are just one of those people. We get it. No one's going to change your mind, we get it. Just leave this topic because you obviously have not won anyone over. Why are you still here?

To get back on topic, that depends on personality. Obviously, you have very little respect for how other people feel. I, on the other had, do care. And I refrain from saying anything hateful or hurtful towards another person unless they don't deserve it. (I'm sorry, you kind of deserve it.) If you hurt someones feelings, you laugh at them and you kick them for it. I actually apologize for hurting their feelings. I do not withdraw my argument, but I apologize for the bad feelings I may have caused them. Just another difference between two people.

You may not care if someone hates Smogon for no reason, but if someone hated something I knew was innocent for no reason, I would defend it, because that is what is right. I preach knowledge over stupidity and ignorance.

 

[Diz~]

That the entire point. People love the shiny.

 

[Hidden Power]

That the entire point. People love the shiny.

I should put it this way: What's your point with respect to this thread's discussion?

People love shiny, therefore I can forgive people who RNG abuse. People love shiny, therefore I RNG abuse to trade with these people. People love shiny, therefore Nintendo should advertise this method in their game guide, so that we can all share the love.

 

[Diz~]

Ah gotcha. So we both agree then that everyone love shiny.

 

[Eternalserenity]

I should put it this way: What's your point with respect to this thread's discussion?

People love shiny, therefore I can forgive people who RNG abuse. People love shiny, therefore I RNG abuse to trade with these people. People love shiny, therefore Nintendo should advertise this method in their game guide, so that we can all share the love.

Not gonna happen. While Nintendo acknowledges the RNG method as a legitimate way to obtain high IV and shiny Pokémon, they do not encourage it.

 

[Neekerisanni123]

I once got a bad egg out of nowhere in my Emerald. I didn't actually do anything, but it just... appeared. An invisible egg in my box. If I viewed its stats, the game froze. Thankfully, I could still release it, for some reason.

 

[Hidden Power]

@Diz~

I don't think I'll use the word "everyone", since there are always people who don't really care about the colour of the sprite. But yes, a lot of people do.

@EternalSword7

Just curious, do you have any source as to Nintendo's stand on RNG?

 

[TheBlobasaurus]

Hello again folks. I just want to know, from anybody who has had a negative experience with a "smogon user". Where did this take place?

I know that the smogon forums can seem unwelcoming, especially to those unsure of where to post. Every forum seems to have their own layout, and this can mean new users will post in the wrong place etc. The responses by the mods and users do not seem aggressive, hostile, or immaturely posted. So why the nagative experiences?
I am going to venture that most people who visit smogon do so only to see analysis, articles and movesets. These are all available without venturing into the forums, so why bother?

If the source is not the forums, then what is it? The Pokemon online smogon server. A server that anybody with pokemon online can join, no matter whether origninating from smogon or not. This gives a wide spectrum of players, from the new to the old, from the nice to the nasty.

I myself have had negative experiences on both the PO and the Smogon servers. Opponents screaming Hax, Noob and throwing insults when both things go their way and do not. Then again, for every player like this, there are plenty who do not. They may post good luck at the start, say good game at the end, chat during the game, and everything is fine. Do the negative players ruin the overall experience? This depends on what sort of person YOU are.

This leaves some sort of conclusion. The world contains people who aren't always nice. We meet these people and it can sour our feelings for a wider group. But ultimately it is up to us to make sure that we do not carry prejudice around with us. This goes for most things in life, not just Pokemon.

Now if you will excuse my long rambling post, i need to get ready to go out.

 

[ironsjack]

Its a quote from the movie "the room", and why is it so bad for a girl yet not so bad for a guy to be hit?

Dude, you can't hit girls. You also seemed to miss the point i was making..

why the hell would you beat someone up, let alone a girl

It's bad enough beating someone up, but worse a girl. You can't do that, unless you wanna go prison or be hated by everyone. Luckily it as a quote from a film.

 

[PrismaticPrincessAnna]

depends on how they cheated. RNG and cloning is alright for me, but hacking... Now thats cheating, nya~

 

[Diz~]

@Diz~

I don't think I'll use the word "everyone", since there are always people who don't really care about the colour of the sprite. But yes, a lot of people do.

Oh snap, good point. I remember I really doesn't like Shiny Pikachu as much as normal Pikachu. So yeah, not everybody. But most people.

 

[PrismaticPrincessAnna]

i thought you get bad eggs when ya keep restarting yer game or keep hacking it..
But i dont think theres any chance of getting one if ya play yer game right, nya~

 

[celestial phantom]

yes, that's exactly what it is NACHOE and blobasaurus, the people we deal with that will give good/bad experiences. For an account of my records I have only dealt with bad sports maybe 3 times in a game on PO. It is these people who are negative towards us and they may very well be from smogon, serebii, or not even another site, but for the most part we assume them to be apart of one of the sites. Regardless, I can't seem to find any true hate for anyone as I wish my opponents luck, chat during the battle, and we both accept win/loss with grace and are mature about it with no resentment towards the other. The people Diz~ and any others deal with probably want to be d-bags as a way of bragging/joking at what kinds of pokes they play. Should that award hate? Not necessarily, as they are just playing the way they know how and might be suprised at what they are playing in the upper tiers. Honestly, it sounds as if they are just being crybabies/kindergarden children who don't try to defend themselves from a bully, thus harboring a growing resentment at the source for unfiltered reasons. They will point that anger and hate at something, so why not the source be smogon, since many think of it in the wrong way without knowing much about it on here at serebii? It just comes down to the question of where is there hate derived from that makes them flat out hate smogon. I find this all to be bollocks at this point and we have already assessed where the hate comes from and why there is hate on smogon.

 

[Arcanine393]

First time facing Whitney in the original Silver made me furious.

And fighting Lance in Soul Silver , every other move he did was a critical hit for crazy damage and his pokemon would always wake up immediately if I put them to sleep .

 

[Wolf Prince]

Bad eggs are mostly glitches or for hacking wrong not hacking. Hacking the wrong way understand?