Take your Pokemon art to the Fan Art subforum.
-
Hi all. We have had reports of member's signatures being edited to include malicious content. You can rest assured this wasn't done by staff and we can find no indication that the forums themselves have been compromised.
However, remember to keep your passwords secure. If you use similar logins on multiple sites, people and even bots may be able to access your account.
We always recommend using unique passwords and enable two-factor authentication if possible. Make sure you are secure. -
Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
>>>> Closed Thread Container <<<<
- Thread starter Goreky
- Start date
- Status
Take your Pokemon art to the Fan Art subforum.
ChaosBlizzard
Crit Happens.
Larvesta, Volcarona, and Legendaries
Larvesta and Volcarona are Pokemon that were introduced in the fifth generation. Larvesta is the final Pokemon in the National Pokedex that evolves into anything else, and they are in the same section of the Unova Pokedex as the Legendaries, being immediately followed up by Cobalion and the rest of the Musketeer trio. I had always assumed Volcarona was a Legendary Pokemon, just as much as Articuno is a Legendary or Rayquaza. But evidently this is not the case. Bulbapedia's articles on Larvesta and Volcarona make no mention of them being Legendary, and specifically calls them "non-Legendary." They are also not listed among the Pokemon in their article on Legendary Pokemon.
However, there seems to be no rigid definition of what constitutes a "Legendary Pokemon." Between our work as fans and the actual definitions the games and other media have established, almost everything in the Pokemon universe is clearly and concretely defined and compartmentalized, like "What constitutes a Ground type?" or "What makes up the overused competitive battling tier?" No such rigidity seems to exist for the definition of what constitutes a Legendary Pokemon. What makes Lugia, a commonly accepted "Legendary Pokemon," Legendary, and what makes, say, Nidoqueen not Legendary? Let's look at the facts about Legendary Pokemon. Using Bulbapedia's list of Legendaries as a basis...
1. Legendary Pokemon, with only the exception of Manaphy, are encountered in one of two ways; either they have an overworld sprite which must be interacted with to initiate a battle, or they roam about one of the regions ("Roamers") and can be encountered randomly in the wild.
2. Legendary Pokemon are typically encountered at a fairly high level. Exceptions include Lati@s, encountered at 35 or 40, Jirachi, encountered at 5, and Victini, encountered at 15, but generally most Legendaries are Level 50 or higher. Such examples include the legendary birds (50), Heatran (70), Arceus (80) and Mewtwo (70).
3. Legendary Pokemon typically have a very low catch rate, most commonly 3, which is both an indication of their power and a gameplay mechanic to make them harder to obtain. Examples include Deoxys (3), Suicune (3), Moltres (3), Shaymin (45), Palkia (30) and Thundurus (3).
4. Many Legendary Pokemon have a signiture move. Sometimes non-Legendary Pokemon have signiture moves like Smeargle's Sketch or Joltik/Galvantula's Electro Web, but it is more common among Legendaries. Examples include Lugia's Aeroblast, Ho-oh's Sacred Fire, Reshiram's Blue Flare, Zekrom's Bolt Strike and Heatran's Magma Storm.
5. Legendary Pokemon tend to have high stats compared to more common Pokemon. Some Legendaries such as Mew or Zapdos are considered underused tier, but that is more because of typing issues (Mew) or because they are outclassed by something else (Zapdos). Generally speaking, Legendaries are very strong, with the vast majority of the uber tier being made up of Legendaries. Some very noteworthy examples are Zekrom, Reshiram, Rayquaza, Mewtwo and Arceus.
6. Non-roaming, non-event Legendary Pokemon that must be interacted with to initiate a battle are typically found after long, arduous quests, and in the far reaches of difficult caves and dungeons. Noteworthy examples include Heatran (at the farthest reaches of Stark Mountain), Articuno (in the deepest depths of the Seafoam Islands), Groudon/Kyogre (in the farthest room of the Cave of Origin) and Regigigas (at the end of the final puzzle in the Snowpoint Temple, after bringing the three other Regis together). The ultimate example of this would be Mewtwo; the ultimate Pokemon in the farthest reaches of the ultimate dungeon. An honorable mention goes to Suicune, who you must track all over Johto and Kanto before being able to catch it.
7. Legendary Pokemon are not known to breed in the games. There has been evidence of Legendaries breeding in the anime (Lugia and Lati@s being prime examples), but most Legendary Pokemon are not able to breed in the games via the Day Care Center. There are however two main exceptions to this rule; Manaphy is capable of breeding with a Ditto, however the offspring with be a Phione instead of a Manaphy, and Arceus is capable of producing a Palkia, Dialga or Giratina egg in HeartGold and SoulSilver through the Shinjoh Ruins.
8. Legendary Pokemon typically utilize their Special Attack more than their Attack, and are typically of types that are more Specially based than Physically. There are exceptions, such as the physically minded Ho-oh, Entei, Groudon and Zekrom, or the mixed Rayquaza and Jirachi, but typically Legendaries are Special attackers. Examples include the legendary birds, Mewtwo, the legendary beasts with the exception of Entei, Celebi, Lati@s, Kyogre, Heatran and Reshiram.
9. Legendary Pokemon have legends associated with them, hence the name "legendary." Examples include: Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza, who raged titanic wars in the ancient past that formed the continents, oceans and atmosphere of the world; Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres, who are said to control the elements of nature in the Orange Islands, Kanto and Johto (possibly elsewhere too); Reshiram and Zekrom, who are the physical manifestations of Yin and Yang; Cobalion, Virizion and Terrakion, who have legends about them saving Pokemon from human wars in the ancient past; and perhaps best of all, Arceus, who is said to have created the universe and everything in it.
There is no rigid definition of what constitutes a Legendary. We simply have Bulbapedia's list of the Legendary Pokemon, and if you aren't on the list, you aren't a Legendary. However, these traits are things that all Legendaries share in common, and there is almost no denying that they are all true for nearly every Legendary. Surely if a Pokemon were to meet all of these criteria, then it should also be considered Legendary, right? Let's see how many Volcarona meets. For simplicity, when I say "Volcarona," I am referring to the entire evolutionary line, constituting both Larvesta and Volcarona.
1. Volcarona is encountered in the Relic Castle, and you must interact with the overworld Volcarona sprite to initiate the battle. (PASS)
2. The Volcarona you interact with inside Relic Castle is found at Level 70, making it just as high leveled as Pokemon such as Mewtwo and Heatran. (PASS)
3. Volcarona has a catch rate of 15, which puts it squarely within the Legendary catch rate radius. (PASS)
4. Volcarona's signiture move is Fiery Dance. While not technically a signiture move, Volcarona is also the most famous user of the move Quiver Dance. (PASS)
5. Volcarona sits comfortably in the overused tier, and was even considered for the uber tier. Its crippling 4x Rock weakness kept it out of ubers, and the prevalence of Stealth Rock makes it difficult to use effectively, but it has solid stats and access to Quiver Dance, the best sweeping move in the game. Volcarona has an extremely high 135 base Special Attack, sits comfortably in the base 100 Speed tier, and has decent Special bulk with a 105 Special Defense stat. It is lacking in HP (85) and Defense (65), and could certainly never run a physical set with an Attack stat of 60, but sweepers tend to be on the frail side anyway. (PASS)
6. Volcarona is found in the farthest reaches of the Relic Castle. That section of the castle cannot even be explored until after defeating the Elite Four for the first time. Additionally, when you enter that section of the castle for the first time, a Team Plasma grunt and Ryoku of the Seven Sages are there specifically looking for Volcarona so they can give it as a gift to Ghetsis because it is so powerful. (PASS)
7. Volcarona can breed, and a man on Route 18 will give you a Larvesta egg. However, Manaphy can also breed, and it is still considered Legendary. If Volcarona was to be considered Legendary, it would be the first Legendary that can breed, and have the offspring evolve into a perfect specimen of the species. (FAIL)
8. Volcarona's Special Attack is 75 points higher than its Attack stat. That difference is higher than its Attack stat is in the first place. Additionally, the majority of its moves are Special, and its typing consists of two primarily Special types. (PASS)
9. According to Volcarona's Pokedex entry in Pokemon Black, "When volcanic ash darkened the atmosphere, it is said that Volcarona's fire provided a replacement for the sun." That sounds like a legend to me. (PASS)
As you can see, Volcarona qualifies for 8 of the 9 criteria with flying colors, and the one that Volcarona does not meet is not met by a modest handful of generally accepted Legendary Pokemon. This brings us to the conclusion of this argument: Volcarona has every qualification to be a Legendary Pokemon, and should be classified as such. Could someone please explain to me why Larvesta and Volcarona are not already considered Legendaries?
Larvesta and Volcarona are Pokemon that were introduced in the fifth generation. Larvesta is the final Pokemon in the National Pokedex that evolves into anything else, and they are in the same section of the Unova Pokedex as the Legendaries, being immediately followed up by Cobalion and the rest of the Musketeer trio. I had always assumed Volcarona was a Legendary Pokemon, just as much as Articuno is a Legendary or Rayquaza. But evidently this is not the case. Bulbapedia's articles on Larvesta and Volcarona make no mention of them being Legendary, and specifically calls them "non-Legendary." They are also not listed among the Pokemon in their article on Legendary Pokemon.
However, there seems to be no rigid definition of what constitutes a "Legendary Pokemon." Between our work as fans and the actual definitions the games and other media have established, almost everything in the Pokemon universe is clearly and concretely defined and compartmentalized, like "What constitutes a Ground type?" or "What makes up the overused competitive battling tier?" No such rigidity seems to exist for the definition of what constitutes a Legendary Pokemon. What makes Lugia, a commonly accepted "Legendary Pokemon," Legendary, and what makes, say, Nidoqueen not Legendary? Let's look at the facts about Legendary Pokemon. Using Bulbapedia's list of Legendaries as a basis...
1. Legendary Pokemon, with only the exception of Manaphy, are encountered in one of two ways; either they have an overworld sprite which must be interacted with to initiate a battle, or they roam about one of the regions ("Roamers") and can be encountered randomly in the wild.
2. Legendary Pokemon are typically encountered at a fairly high level. Exceptions include Lati@s, encountered at 35 or 40, Jirachi, encountered at 5, and Victini, encountered at 15, but generally most Legendaries are Level 50 or higher. Such examples include the legendary birds (50), Heatran (70), Arceus (80) and Mewtwo (70).
3. Legendary Pokemon typically have a very low catch rate, most commonly 3, which is both an indication of their power and a gameplay mechanic to make them harder to obtain. Examples include Deoxys (3), Suicune (3), Moltres (3), Shaymin (45), Palkia (30) and Thundurus (3).
4. Many Legendary Pokemon have a signiture move. Sometimes non-Legendary Pokemon have signiture moves like Smeargle's Sketch or Joltik/Galvantula's Electro Web, but it is more common among Legendaries. Examples include Lugia's Aeroblast, Ho-oh's Sacred Fire, Reshiram's Blue Flare, Zekrom's Bolt Strike and Heatran's Magma Storm.
5. Legendary Pokemon tend to have high stats compared to more common Pokemon. Some Legendaries such as Mew or Zapdos are considered underused tier, but that is more because of typing issues (Mew) or because they are outclassed by something else (Zapdos). Generally speaking, Legendaries are very strong, with the vast majority of the uber tier being made up of Legendaries. Some very noteworthy examples are Zekrom, Reshiram, Rayquaza, Mewtwo and Arceus.
6. Non-roaming, non-event Legendary Pokemon that must be interacted with to initiate a battle are typically found after long, arduous quests, and in the far reaches of difficult caves and dungeons. Noteworthy examples include Heatran (at the farthest reaches of Stark Mountain), Articuno (in the deepest depths of the Seafoam Islands), Groudon/Kyogre (in the farthest room of the Cave of Origin) and Regigigas (at the end of the final puzzle in the Snowpoint Temple, after bringing the three other Regis together). The ultimate example of this would be Mewtwo; the ultimate Pokemon in the farthest reaches of the ultimate dungeon. An honorable mention goes to Suicune, who you must track all over Johto and Kanto before being able to catch it.
7. Legendary Pokemon are not known to breed in the games. There has been evidence of Legendaries breeding in the anime (Lugia and Lati@s being prime examples), but most Legendary Pokemon are not able to breed in the games via the Day Care Center. There are however two main exceptions to this rule; Manaphy is capable of breeding with a Ditto, however the offspring with be a Phione instead of a Manaphy, and Arceus is capable of producing a Palkia, Dialga or Giratina egg in HeartGold and SoulSilver through the Shinjoh Ruins.
8. Legendary Pokemon typically utilize their Special Attack more than their Attack, and are typically of types that are more Specially based than Physically. There are exceptions, such as the physically minded Ho-oh, Entei, Groudon and Zekrom, or the mixed Rayquaza and Jirachi, but typically Legendaries are Special attackers. Examples include the legendary birds, Mewtwo, the legendary beasts with the exception of Entei, Celebi, Lati@s, Kyogre, Heatran and Reshiram.
9. Legendary Pokemon have legends associated with them, hence the name "legendary." Examples include: Groudon, Kyogre and Rayquaza, who raged titanic wars in the ancient past that formed the continents, oceans and atmosphere of the world; Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres, who are said to control the elements of nature in the Orange Islands, Kanto and Johto (possibly elsewhere too); Reshiram and Zekrom, who are the physical manifestations of Yin and Yang; Cobalion, Virizion and Terrakion, who have legends about them saving Pokemon from human wars in the ancient past; and perhaps best of all, Arceus, who is said to have created the universe and everything in it.
There is no rigid definition of what constitutes a Legendary. We simply have Bulbapedia's list of the Legendary Pokemon, and if you aren't on the list, you aren't a Legendary. However, these traits are things that all Legendaries share in common, and there is almost no denying that they are all true for nearly every Legendary. Surely if a Pokemon were to meet all of these criteria, then it should also be considered Legendary, right? Let's see how many Volcarona meets. For simplicity, when I say "Volcarona," I am referring to the entire evolutionary line, constituting both Larvesta and Volcarona.
1. Volcarona is encountered in the Relic Castle, and you must interact with the overworld Volcarona sprite to initiate the battle. (PASS)
2. The Volcarona you interact with inside Relic Castle is found at Level 70, making it just as high leveled as Pokemon such as Mewtwo and Heatran. (PASS)
3. Volcarona has a catch rate of 15, which puts it squarely within the Legendary catch rate radius. (PASS)
4. Volcarona's signiture move is Fiery Dance. While not technically a signiture move, Volcarona is also the most famous user of the move Quiver Dance. (PASS)
5. Volcarona sits comfortably in the overused tier, and was even considered for the uber tier. Its crippling 4x Rock weakness kept it out of ubers, and the prevalence of Stealth Rock makes it difficult to use effectively, but it has solid stats and access to Quiver Dance, the best sweeping move in the game. Volcarona has an extremely high 135 base Special Attack, sits comfortably in the base 100 Speed tier, and has decent Special bulk with a 105 Special Defense stat. It is lacking in HP (85) and Defense (65), and could certainly never run a physical set with an Attack stat of 60, but sweepers tend to be on the frail side anyway. (PASS)
6. Volcarona is found in the farthest reaches of the Relic Castle. That section of the castle cannot even be explored until after defeating the Elite Four for the first time. Additionally, when you enter that section of the castle for the first time, a Team Plasma grunt and Ryoku of the Seven Sages are there specifically looking for Volcarona so they can give it as a gift to Ghetsis because it is so powerful. (PASS)
7. Volcarona can breed, and a man on Route 18 will give you a Larvesta egg. However, Manaphy can also breed, and it is still considered Legendary. If Volcarona was to be considered Legendary, it would be the first Legendary that can breed, and have the offspring evolve into a perfect specimen of the species. (FAIL)
8. Volcarona's Special Attack is 75 points higher than its Attack stat. That difference is higher than its Attack stat is in the first place. Additionally, the majority of its moves are Special, and its typing consists of two primarily Special types. (PASS)
9. According to Volcarona's Pokedex entry in Pokemon Black, "When volcanic ash darkened the atmosphere, it is said that Volcarona's fire provided a replacement for the sun." That sounds like a legend to me. (PASS)
As you can see, Volcarona qualifies for 8 of the 9 criteria with flying colors, and the one that Volcarona does not meet is not met by a modest handful of generally accepted Legendary Pokemon. This brings us to the conclusion of this argument: Volcarona has every qualification to be a Legendary Pokemon, and should be classified as such. Could someone please explain to me why Larvesta and Volcarona are not already considered Legendaries?
Grey Wind
Well-Known Member
No it can't. Pseudo-Legendaries are three-stage evolutionary families and 600 BST among other things.
the qualifications for a pseudo-legendary are:
1) three stages.
2) bst 600.
3) right before the legendaries in the pokedex.
volcarona is not pseudo-legendary.
OK.. so what CAN it be considered as?
BCVM22
Well-Known Member
A rank-and-file Pokémon that gets a wee bit of in-game spotlight. Nothing more, nothing less.
rocky505
Well-Known Member
A Pseudo Pseudo Legendary with Slaking,Flygon,Haxorus
Mr. Reloaded
Cause a pirate is free
There not legends they have evolutions which legends don't have.
There stats aren't good enough either.
There stats aren't good enough either.
Wild Dragonite
Ralts Evo Tree Fan
I thought it was all cut and dry until I actually read your dang post, and now I have no idea.
I think the main thing we all get hung up on is the Larvesta. Without it, Volcarona would almost certainly be legendary. With it, though, it's just another Pokemon that gets some time in the spotlight.
I think the main thing we all get hung up on is the Larvesta. Without it, Volcarona would almost certainly be legendary. With it, though, it's just another Pokemon that gets some time in the spotlight.
I classify it as a hard to kill Pokémon. No more, no less.
Porgon-XYZ
Wut are you saying?
Due to Larvesta, Volcarona can never be a legendary. If it can evovle, than It's not a legend.(Manaphy can breed but Phonie doesn't evovle) If larvesta wasn't there, Volcarona MIGHT have been a legendary.
Miss Alexis
Event Collector :)
i disagree it shouldnt be legendary
- Status