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Come Forth, Lycanroc with the Crimson Look!! (970)

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
I'd argue that Ash feeling bad about losing (or however you would describe it) would be detrimental to both Ash and his Pokemon.

I mean in the very beginning of the episode Ash was was training all of his Alola Pokemon but primarily Rockruff.

To intentionally force Ash to lose just because he needs to understand loss would be the crappiest thing to do at that moment. Especially to how Rockruff would likely handle the loss.

This doesn't feel like a character building moment, especially with how superior Gladion was. This would've been disheartening. Both Ash and Rockruff would've felt bad, that all they're training they still amounted to nothing in the battle. Ash was not being cocky, so why does Ash need to be knocked down a peg. Why must Ash and Rockruff feel like crap just because?

If Ash was going to lose I would've preferred Ash to shrug his shoulders and say they've got a lot more training to do rather than be forced to feel a detrimental feeling, especially when Ash for example isn't being cocky. That would be kind of like Ash vs Paul the first full battle. There was no reason for Ash to lose so badly just to feel like absolute crap just for a storyline of Ash moping until his Pokemon cheered him up, but oh well it happened, moving on, we don't need a repeat UNTIL or UNLESS Ash gets cocky.
 

mystic9899

Pokemon fan
man, can't even have a proper discussion anymore without going at each other's necks...

did i think this was overall a good episode? yes. was the end anticlimactic? very much so. does that mean every battle in the series will be that way? of course not.
 

Xenon Blue

No Hard Feelings
I would have liked for Ash to lose properly this episode, but it's not a big deal. He found more motivation to do more trials.

SM obviously won't focus on fleshed-out battles with good narratives, which sucks because that is what I watch Pokemon for, but oh well beggars can't be choosers.
 

SinnohEevee

Well-Known Member
I agree. As I said in one of my earlier posts, this was as much a Rockruff focus episode as it was Gladion's introduction episode. Rockruff was pumped up just by the sight of Midnight Lycanroc battling; it didn't need to lose against its evolution in order to be inspired. Additionally, as you pointed out, Lycanroc and Pikachu being captured mid-battle allowed Rockruff to save them (it started running after Team Rocket on its own volition, without instruction from Ash), which may be one reason why Gladion complimented Rockruff and why Lycanroc patted Rockruff on the head. It's nice to see an evolved Pokémon respect its pre-evolved form. (It's like the opposite of all the Pikachu vs. Raichu rivalries we see.)

Do the writers hate Raichu or what?
 

Rohanator

Well-Known Member
I'd argue that Ash feeling bad about losing (or however you would describe it) would be detrimental to both Ash and his Pokemon.

I mean in the very beginning of the episode Ash was was training all of his Alola Pokemon but primarily Rockruff.

To intentionally force Ash to lose just because he needs to understand loss would be the crappiest thing to do at that moment. Especially to how Rockruff would likely handle the loss.

This doesn't feel like a character building moment, especially with how superior Gladion was. This would've been disheartening. Both Ash and Rockruff would've felt bad, that all they're training they still amounted to nothing in the battle. Ash was not being cocky, so why does Ash need to be knocked down a peg. Why must Ash and Rockruff feel like crap just because?

If Ash was going to lose I would've preferred Ash to shrug his shoulders and say they've got a lot more training to do rather than be forced to feel a detrimental feeling, especially when Ash for example isn't being cocky. That would be kind of like Ash vs Paul the first full battle. There was no reason for Ash to lose so badly just to feel like absolute crap just for a storyline of Ash moping until his Pokemon cheered him up, but oh well it happened, moving on, we don't need a repeat UNTIL or UNLESS Ash gets cocky.
No one said anything about Ash needing to understand loss. He doesn't even have to feel BAD necessarily, just more of a spark towards Gladion. There's no actual rivalry yet.

But whatever, maybe it'll happen next time when they actually finish a fight, I mean I'm tired of that kind of "better luck next time" mentality cause it just means there's no point in discussing what we actually have now, but this is going no where either way.
 

Soniman

Break the Limit
People say say XY fans get defensive but it's just as bad when everyone's do quick to excuse any fault someone might have with SM and brush it away.

I expected a rival fight, not a amazing one or anything just a normal battle, I think it was well earned after 17 episodes of not battling and goofing off with various filler hijinks and we couldn't even get that. For a series that has left me so disinterested and nothing to get engaged with beyond surface level enjoyment apart from when Lillie or Litten gets focus, this was the first time in awhile I actually got hyped and was ultimately let down. I guess that's my own fault for expecting so much from a saga that's given me very little of what I personally want out of a Pokemon saga in the first place but I'd still chalk the whole interruption debacle on the fault of bad writing and not simply my own expectations..

A loss on top and of that would've been nice, give Ash something to work towards then just meandering around not really having a direction. It still bugs me how if Gladion didn't tell Ash about Olivia he's probably have never bothered to look into that on his own because he only shows interest in challenging her after Gladion told him (even though he previously heard about her from Kiwae)
 
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Spyro39

Well-Known Member
Finally watched the episode. I'm a little bit disappointed with how short Ash and Gladion's battle was. Wish TR didn't interfere.

Are the writers trying not to repeat the tradition of Ash losing to his main rival until he defeats them at the league?

Maybe that's just me, but a buildup to a first rival battle only to end anti-climatically is not a good way to set up a rivalry between two main characters in the long run IMO, especially when it looks obvious that Ash was going to lose.
 
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Everything12

Well-Known Member
Personally I think they had Team Rocket interrupt so Gladion could debut his Rockium-Z on them because from what I saw he wasn't going to need it for Rockruff.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
I don't really mind the battle not concluding, I don't think Rockruff fainting would have made much difference to the overall narrative, Rockruff was getting overpowered after all, and Rockruff saving the day against Team Rocket was a nice way for it to prove its strength without beating Lycanroc. I only wish it'd have been interrupted a bit later, maybe after both Ash and Gladion had used a Z-move in the battle, then Team Rocket swoops in to take the weakened pokémon. Rockruff still has that Breakneck Blitz after all. Using the Z-move seemed more to just show it off rather than really functional, it just caused the blast-off which Pikachu's Thunderbolt also does. They could have shown off the Z-move in the battle with Rockruff instead.

I do like Bewear's intervention. That thing keeps on getting more insane ways of grabbing Team Rocket, now it flies across the sky like Mewtwo did in the original opening. After a bunch of times he just picked up Team Rocket it's now back with his OP insanity.

One thing I didn't really like was Team Skull. They're just so forgettable. I get that their entire gag is that they're completely incompetent, but they're so incompetent that they're also completely unrelatable. We're 27 episodes in and I still don't even have a clue what these three goons are called.
 
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Grey Wind

Well-Known Member
I have more of a problem with the fact that the battle was like five seconds long than it being interrupted. I feel like it's become a trend in recent sagas for battles to go unconcluded, but it's a real shame they didn't let Rockruff and Lycanroc exchange more than a handful of blows.
 

Nebbygetinthebag

Well-Known Member
This episode is ok through I don't like how the fact that the battle Ash vs gladion is short thank a lot TR also gladion and lillie didn't even interact that much although the rivarly between Ash and gladion is ok I also like how gladion was protayed in this episode very silent and edgy it's cool also his backstory with Eevee is cute and I really don't like team skull there so forgettable.Overall this episode is ok I'm hoping too see more of Ash and gladion rivarly I give it a 7/10.
 

Almighty Zard

He has returned.
It still bugs me how if Gladion didn't tell Ash about Olivia he's probably have never bothered to look into that on his own because he only shows interest in challenging her after Gladion told him (even though he previously heard about her from Kiwae)

If I recall correctly all Kiawe said was that he had cleared the grand trial of Akala, he never specified who the kahuna was despite her being shown for an instant.

So now Ash can connect the dots.
 

snorlax512

Well-Known Member
Gladion was awesome but really, what logical explanation is there for TR to butt in and make the fight five seconds long?
 

British Soul

Top Hat Regulator
Not gonna lie, after TR's interruption of the battle, I think they deserved to be blasted off tbph. Sorry Bewear, you had no business saving them after what they did to ruin things.
 

Sceptile Leaf Blade

Nighttime Guardian
I think the main problem this episode had was that it tried to do too much in 20 minutes. It tried to introduce Gladion, it tried to build up a rivalry between Lycanroc and Rockruff as well as resolve that, it tried to establish some backstory between Lillie and Gladion with some foreshadowing, it tried to show off Continental Crush, and it wanted to have a battle between Ash and Gladion. Altogether it was just too cramped for an episode and the battle suffered. I think it'd have been better if they distributed this over two episodes, first episode establishes Gladion and Lycanroc and does some foreshadowing, and ends with the battle between Ash and Gladion starting. Then the second episode you can dedicate to the battle, maybe make it 2-on-2 or 3-on-3, and have both Ash and Gladion use a Z-move in the battle.
 

dman_dustin

Well-Known Member
If I recall correctly all Kiawe said was that he had cleared the grand trial of Akala, he never specified who the kahuna was despite her being shown for an instant.

So now Ash can connect the dots.

I'm pretty sure Kiawe outright mentioned Olivia as in her Japanese name. Or did I remember incorrectly?
 

ShadowForce720

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure Kiawe outright mentioned Olivia as in her Japanese name. Or did I remember incorrectly?

No, your not remembering incorrectly, I just checked and it was in episode 11 where he mentioned her by name when he was talking about how he got his Z-ring, although this episode with Gladion mentioning Olivia by name is the first time that it is specifically mentioned in the anime that she hands out Rockium-Z when a challenger completes the Grand Trail of Akala Island.
 
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