Come What May (327)

[CyberCubed]

And even by the fiftieth episode, they still made no solid progress on her as a Pokemon trainer and never showed her improving her skills to the point where she could accomplish feats like she did in this contest.

We saw enough. We know DP had far more training episodes than any of the other sagas. In AG most training was implied off-screen.

 

[Vernikova]

We saw enough. We know DP had far more training episodes than any of the other sagas. In AG most training was implied off-screen.

If by enough you mean virtually nothing then sure. I certainly didn't see enough to believe that Beautifly could pull off those moves or that May had the ability to teach those moves to it. In reality, off-screen training is just another way of saying "we pulled this out of our *** because the plot demanded it" especially if there is no foreshadowing beforehand.

 

[CyberCubed]

If by enough you mean virtually nothing then sure. I certainly didn't see enough to believe that Beautifly could pull off those moves or that May had the ability to teach those moves to it. In reality, off-screen training is just another way of saying "we pulled this out of our *** because the plot demanded it" especially if there is no foreshadowing beforehand.

I see you're trying to be clever. Beautifly had plenty of preparation for this contest. If this had been Torchic beating Medicham I'd agree with you it would be ridiculous, but thank goodness the writers knew what they were doing.

 

[Vernikova]

I see you're trying to be clever.

There is no need to be clever when I'm pointing out poor writing.

Beautifly had plenty of preparation for this contest. If this had been Torchic beating Medicham I'd agree with you it would be ridiculous, but thank goodness the writers knew what they were doing.

You've already admitted beforehand that the training was off-screen. There's no point where May had displayed sufficient enough skill to teach those moves nor was there a point when Beautifly had shown enough training to pull off those moves without a problem. Show me otherwise.

 

[CyberCubed]

She was practicing Beautifly's Silver Wind in the Wailord filler and a few others. I don't see what the point of complaining about a lack of on-screen training is for when we usually never see it aside from when Ash is trying to teach his Pokemon a new move...like Treecko's Bullet seed or Snorunt's Ice beam.

All I know is I saw a good battle, and this is when I got interested in Contests for the first time. The first two Hoenn contests seemed more like introductions to the fandom, but this one was the turning point.

 

[Vernikova]

She was practicing Beautifly's Silver Wind in the Wailord filler and a few others.

Practicing Silver Wind does not mean that Beautfily could use Silver Wind, Tackle, and Gust in a coordinated manner all at the same time. If that were the case, moves like Ice Chandelier wouldn't have needed air time for training since Ice Beam had already been mastered long before the move was created and we already knew that Ice Beam could be used to create structures. That clearly isn't the case.

I don't see what the point of complaining about a lack of on-screen training is for when we usually never see it aside from when Ash is trying to teach his Pokemon a new move...like Treecko's Bullet seed or Snorunt's Ice beam.

Because I was reviewing an episode and you decided to defend terrible writing.

All I know is I saw a good battle, and this is when I got interested in Contests for the first time. The first two Hoenn contests seemed more like introductions to the fandom, but this one was the turning point.

The battle was nice. The outcome didn't make any sense.

 

[CyberCubed]

Practicing Silver Wind does not mean that Beautfily could use Silver Wind, Tackle, and Gust in a coordinated manner all at the same time. If that were the case, moves like Ice Chandelier wouldn't have needed air time for training since Ice Beam had already been mastered long before the move was created and we already knew that Ice Beam could be used to create structures. That clearly isn't the case.

Beautifly was using fairly basic attacks. I don't see why any beginning trainer couldn't have pulled that off. The strategy came in when Beautifly immobilized Medicham's arms and showed the first signs of May starting to become a better trainer.

Because I was reviewing an episode and you decided to defend terrible writing.

The battle was nice. The outcome didn't make any sense.

Perhaps you're watching the series with the wrong expectations in mind, I don't see how you can enjoy 90% of the shows battles then, since they all play out rather similarly.

 

[Vernikova]

Beautifly was using fairly basic attacks. I don't see why any beginning trainer couldn't have pulled that off.

In just the previous episode, Beautifly couldn't use Gust, Tackle, and String Shot at the same time. There was no training after that point and nothing to suggest that Beautifly could do three moves at the same time.

The strategy came in when Beautifly immobilized Medicham's arms and showed the first signs of May starting to become a better trainer.

Do you not realize how silly it sounds to say that May was a better strategist when she showed no strategical ability beforehand against an opponent who was shown to be a better strategist than Drew who is leagues beyond May at this point?

Perhaps you're watching the series with the wrong expectations in mind, I don't see how you can enjoy 90% of the shows battles then, since they all play out rather similarly.

I re-watch for the 10%.

 

[Aegon]

off-screen

...

Don't bother arguing with CyberCubed about May for your own health. We've all learnt how dear he holds her.

 

[Vernikova]

...

Don't bother arguing with CyberCubed about May for your own health. We've all learnt how dear he holds her.

I heard that PAD had a few people who could be difficult to deal with during discussions but I'm having no problem with him right now nor with anyone else in this section really. If anything, I'm educating him on a character he enjoys so he can have a more realistic liking to her.

 

[CyberCubed]

In just the previous episode, Beautifly couldn't use Gust, Tackle, and String Shot at the same time. There was no training after that point and nothing to suggest that Beautifly could do three moves at the same time.

So in other words you think every battle ability is shown before hand? Mind explaining why every other character has Pokemon that do the same thing?

Do you not realize how silly it sounds to say that May was a better strategist when she showed no strategical ability beforehand against an opponent who was shown to be a better strategist than Drew who is leagues beyond May at this point?

Why does this bother you? Characters win against more experienced characters all the time. Drew lost because his Roselia couldn't counter Medicham the way Beautifly could. Roselia can't fly, couldn't immobilize it, its pretty simple really.

Since when do you lose against someone once and then never beat them again anyway? Its too bad Grace never returned but its not like characters can't win against someone they lose to prior.

I heard that PAD had a few people who could be difficult to deal with during discussions but I'm having no problem with him right now nor with anyone else in this section really. If anything, I'm educating him on a character he enjoys so he can have a more realistic liking to her.

I am well aware of each characters flaws. Seems to me that Rebecca is making a mountain out of a molehill, as if this is the only time in the entire series such an event took place. I guess she must have been oblivious to the 100 other times its happened.

 

[Grey Wind]

Cyber, your argument has rapidly back-pedalled from "it was a perfectly fine battle" to "it was bad but so were a lot of other battles".

Just throwing that out there.

 

[CyberCubed]

Cyber, your argument has rapidly back-pedalled from "it was a perfectly fine battle" to "it was bad but so were a lot of other battles".

Just throwing that out there.

I never said the battle was bad, I said most of these episodes never had much training prior to them. The Beautifly Vs. Medicham battle is easily one of the better contest battles in the series, and this was the start of when the Contests really started to take off in popularity in the show.

 

[Grey Wind]

I never said the battle was bad, I said most of these episodes never had much training prior to them. The Beautifly Vs. Medicham battle is easily one of the better contest battles in the series, and this was the start of when the Contests really started to take off in popularity in the show.

Well you admitted to its flaws, same thing. Just because it's happend a lot doesn't mean that it's acceptable. You can't say that this battle was good on the basis that "so were some other battles". Beautifly couldn't even use the moves properly the episode before, it suddenly mastering them didn't make a whole lot of sense.

I think Beautifly should have trained for at least a day in May before being ready to battle.

 

[Vernikova]

So in other words you think every battle ability is shown before hand? Mind explaining why every other character has Pokemon that do the same thing?

It should be foreshadowed at the minimum. In any case, they don't show it all of the time but when someone criticizes it as bad writing, which it is, then they (the writers and their fans) shouldn't complain when people do so. Every other character has Pokemon that do the same thing because of poor writing. Simple as that. This isn't a special case nor is it the first, the last, or the most egregious. It's just this case that happened in this episode and pointed out in this thread which discusses said episode.

Why does this bother you?

Because it's poor writing and you decided to pursue the issue to get my opinion on the matter.

Characters win against more experienced characters all the time. Drew lost because his Roselia couldn't counter Medicham the way Beautifly could. Roselia can't fly, couldn't immobilize it, its pretty simple really.

I don't have a problem with characters winning against people who are more experienced than they are. That's to be expected in shows like this. I have a problem with the fact that there was nothing showing that May had reached this level as a trainer and that she suddenly gained the skilled required to do so for no reason.

Since when do you lose against someone once and then never beat them again anyway? Its too bad Grace never returned but its not like characters can't win against someone they lose to prior.

This has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I am well aware of each characters flaws. Seems to me that Rebecca is making a mountain out of a molehill, as if this is the only time in the entire series such an event took place. I guess she must have been oblivious to the 100 other times its happened.

I've probably pointed some of these things out in other threads that are primarily focused on battling. I don't point it out in episodes that don't have battling as a focus to the degree that Pokemon Contests and gym battles do. This just happened to be one of those episodes.

 

[CyberCubed]

Well you admitted to its flaws, same thing. Just because it's happend a lot doesn't mean that it's acceptable. You can't say that this battle was good on the basis that "so were some other battles". Beautifly couldn't even use the moves properly the episode before, it suddenly mastering them didn't make a whole lot of sense.

I think Beautifly should have trained for at least a day in May before being ready to battle.

There was the filler with the Wailord that Beautifly was training. Beautifly had also lost its first Contest and improved tremendously. I also don't see how training prior should effect an enjoyment of a good battle.

It should be foreshadowed at the minimum. In any case, they don't show it all of the time but when someone criticizes it as bad writing, which it is, then they (the writers and their fans) shouldn't complain when people do so. Every other character has Pokemon that do the same thing because of poor writing. Simple as that. This isn't a special case nor is it the first, the last, or the most egregious. It's just this case that happened in this episode and pointed out in this thread which discusses said episode.

Beautifly was May's most used Pokemon at this point. I thought this was established?

I don't have a problem with characters winning against people who are more experienced than they are. That's to be expected in shows like this. I have a problem with the fact that there was nothing showing that May had reached this level as a trainer and that she suddenly gained the skilled required to do so for no reason.

And yet your only counter to this is Grace beat Drew who May couldn't, completely ignoring the different pokemon used and the fact that May lost to Drew in her first contest about 25 episodes before this one. Grace isn't some super skilled trainer either, why are you acting like she's Solidad or something?

The fact that I've been on the forums since 2004 and you're the first person in over 8 years to bring this up about this episode says a lot.

 

[Vernikova]

Beautifly was May's most used Pokemon at this point. I thought this was established?

It being May's most used Pokemon has no bearing on her ability as a strategist, as a trainer, or the ability of the Pokemon itself as I've already shown.

And yet your only counter to this is Grace beat Drew who May couldn't, completely ignoring the different pokemon used and the fact that May lost to Drew in her first contest about 25 episodes before this one. Grace isn't some super skilled trainer either, why are you acting like she's Solidad or something?

She might as well be Solidad compared to May and Drew at this point in the series. Anyway, Drew is a better trainer than May in all aspects at this point in the series. It's fairly obvious. The fact that Grace was able to outclass Drew yet lose to May handily is telling of the writing of this episode and her handling. The different Pokemon used in the battles doesn't have anything to do with this. It's the skill of the trainer than I'm pointing out.

The fact that I've been on the forums since 2004 and you're the first person in over 8 years to bring this up about this episode says a lot.

Irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Pokemaniac24]

Zoey wasn't really shown as unbeatable. She lost to Nando, Fantina (in that practice battle), and May.

 

[7threst]

This episode was really well-done. This episode is what made contests so popular back in the day and I thought all the three battles were interesting and cool to watch. It was perhaps quite out of the ordinary how powerful May has become, but she definitely deserved that ribbon.

 

[AquaMilotic]

I have mixed feelings about it... I liked the battle, but May winning was a bit overpowered, and therefore not very realistic. But it was mentioned in this thread that there was "off-screen training", and I think that's true. But still... But oh well, trainers beating more experienced opponents happens all the time in Pokemon, so yeah... 6/10.