Communism

[poke poke]

communism is a greatly misunderstood concept, especially in western society. it has undeserved negative connotations because of propaganda spread against communist russia by the allied powers, specifically america. this isnt without reason though; a large number of the greatest communist leaders unfortunately turned out to be genocidal maniacs. regardless, instead of me writing a long rant that you probably wouldnt want to read, this video gives a relatively unbiased yet concise look at orthodox communism and all its facets:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MmRgMAZyYN0

now my question to you is: do you like communism? are you a COMRADE through and through, do you think communism has merits but prefer socialism/capitalism or do you just think all those commie bastards should jump off a hill?

me, im undecided. i definitely do not like capitalism but i think that in todays globalised society capitalism with strong socialist principles ie a tremendous amount of government intervention for wealth distribution and social security is ideal, because a transition to communism, especially a complete transfer of power to the proletariat, is impossible. that said i do think THEORETICALLY communism is the best economic/political ideology.

a stateless, classless society would be ideal because it inhibits corruption and limits 'gaming the system' for wealth because there really is no monetary gain to be had. even though there is no monetary gain, humans are still a social species and are genetically predisposed to improve societal standing to, biologically, get a better mate. however because the society is classless and the concept of affluence is inexistent, the only way to move up the societal ladder is to actually CONTRIBUTE to society. hypothetically, say a man has a cure for aids. a capitalist society dictates that he should sell the drug for an exorbitantly high price and gain more capital and thus increase his societal standing. such a thing is nearly impossible to do and, if done, reviled in a communist society so the only way for the man to improve his social standing, which again he is biologically programmed to do, is to give away the drug for free.

something to think about.

 

[Scubasteve23]

This is how I feel about anyone that supports communism...

 

[Hox]

It's flawed in theory and practice. Many like to regurgitate this notion that "Communism is the bomb, it's just we pathetic humans that can't seem to get it right" but they're thinking narrowly.

Another fatal flaw to communism is Marx’s misconception of economics. Marx posits a theory that “asserts that the market or exchange value of any commodity is the amount of labor embodied in it.” (Text, 335) However, history and modern economics have proved that labor is not necessarily what determines the value of a good or service but rather supply and demand. Demand being the subjective value placed on a good or service by those who would purchase it, the price they are willing to pay, as well as the number who wish to receive said product or service. Supply is simply the availability of the product or service. Supply and demand are what determine price which is what determines the allocation of property, not necessarily the amount of labor.

http://damienmanier.com/2009-11-26/the-flaws-of-marxism/

Now focus on,

Marx posits a theory that “asserts that the market or exchange value of any commodity is the amount of labor embodied in it.”

that part.

This is an issue that doesn't arise from a flawed human application of Marx's ideas. It's a flat out logical fallacy with his theory to begin with.

 

[Diz~]

Communism doesn't work. People want money.

 

[SugarFreeJazz]

Another problem is the lack of motivation due to a lack of economic incentives. Not everyone works equally, so why should everyone be paid and treated equally?

 

[Malanu]

You cannot have a classless society. If you have a government you have a division of class.

 

[Cometstarlight]

Communism is not something worth positive feedback. It only really enslaves the citizens to a life of no motivation. So no, I will never think of communism in a good way

 

[mao tse tung]

things to consider:

- communism advanced russia from a backward laughing-stock to an international superpower with a space program

- communism dragged china kicking and screaming into the 20th century. increase in life expectancy was unbelievable(even though the 20th century brought great increases everywhere in the world, china is still exceptional -- compare it to india for example). chinese capitalism is indeed responsible for the enormous economic growth of china, but communism made that system possible by modernizing the country at rapid pace.

- same thing in russia. literacy, life expectancy, all quality of life metrics improved enormously in a very short period of time.

so we can all say whether or not communism is a viable option going forward but anyone who would say communism WAS a "failure" would have to have a pretty interesting idea of "failure"

 

[overlordmewtwo]

^ And I could counter this by saying that the main reason Russia even got that stuff was by trading with the U.S. (despite the cold war and threats of nuclear weapons). Otherwise, in Russia's communist backwards society, they would have never accomplished anything.

EDIT: I'll try to find that later.

 

[mao tse tung]

most US/Soviet trade entailed the soviets receiving agricultural produce and equipment(agriculture was always a problem in the soviet union). i would like to see some sources which assert that most of the USSR's industrial growth and scientific advances of the 40s, 50s and 60s came from trade with the US.

 

[poke poke]

Communism is not something worth positive feedback. It only really enslaves the citizens to a life of no motivation. So no, I will never think of communism in a good way

pray tell, why exactly do you think it 'enslaves the citizens to a life of no motivation'?

 

[mao tse tung]

the first post actually had a reasonably sized paragraph arguing against that ubiquitous meme, yet just about every post has used it without regard to the argument already posed against it.

 

[DocGoblin]

pray tell, why exactly do you think it 'enslaves the citizens to a life of no motivation'?

Because there is little to motivate you to better yourself, why even try if every job pays the same and every person is regarded as the same? Communism has the ability (and has often exercised it) to remove individuality and instead push the populace into a faceless crowd of obedience.

 

[poke poke]

where does communism ever imply that every person must be regarded the same? money isnt the only indicator of societal status; it matters most in today's society because the status quo is decidedly capitalist. if wealth disparity ceases to exist then 'respect' is the only metric to go on. in many ways that is a better indicator of a person's standing in society because people will no longer be able to catapult themselves right up the social ladder by simply manipulating money but ONLY if they benefit society as a whole.

 

[DocGoblin]

North Vietnam was/is notorious for breaking down individuality, Stalin's Russia made the people put the state first and them second etc.

Nobody is going to want to take on a heavily taxing job with long hours and health risks (Like say, a doctor) when they would get paid the same to do something simple like work in a super market or cleaning, which has virtually no real risks and kinder hours. Money is the main incentive to get people to work.

 

[poke poke]

on the contrary people would obviously work to become a doctor because it is a more interesting and intellectually stimulating profession and would garner more RESPECT than people who work in super markets. the idea that communism would spawn a society of blue collars working menial jobs is a misconception and an insult to people who'd rather not have their intellect wasted, and hordes of such people would definitely exist in a communist society.

 

[DocGoblin]

Communism pushes the ideal that we're all equal, that the farmer is equal to the doctor and the store owner is equal to the soldier and so forth, the respect that doctors have in non communist countries wouldn't be reflected in communist countries because of the ethos that no one is better than anyone else. A more taxing job deserves a greater amount of pay than a menial job. I work in a coffee shop part time, there is no way I'd ever think I deserve to be paid the same as a doctor whilst doing this job.

 

[UltimatePokemonExpert]

Communism, nice idea, can't be done in a way that doesn't make us all suffer.

 

[The Lord 67]

Communism, nice idea, can't be done in a way that doesn't make us all suffer.

This person is correct. Although it can theoretically be done, lots of people will be put in suffering in order to do so.

 

[JASON221]

That would be a good idea!