Community POTW #003

[Serebii]

It's time for the third Gen VI Pokémon of the Week, and this week we're concluding with the starter Pokémon

Greninja is a decent Pokémon, arguably the best of the starter Pokémon in this generation. With its Hidden Ability, it is capable of an amazing amount.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/658.shtml



Go nuts

 

[kingmn2]

Greninja@Weakness Policy/Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Ability - Torrent/Protean
Attacks:
- Dark Pulse
- Mat Block/Protect/Extrasensory
- Hydro Pump/Hydro Cannon
- HP - Fire/Poison

Dark Pulse is dark STAB, Mat Block and protect for team and complete coverage, respectively. Extrasensory is for the choice scarf set. Hydro Pump is for no charging and cannon for more power. Hidden Power is preference of coverage.

I've not used Greninja yet, but his typing and low Defense leaves him pretty vulnerable to strong physical Fighting-types (Machamp, Conkelldurr, etc...), so I think he'll be somewhat limited. Weakness Policy is for the common weaknesses and choice scarf is to ensure he gets a couple of moves in. Thanks - First Post!

 

[KillerDraco]

Greninja@Weakness Policy/Choice Scarf
Timid Nature
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Ability - Torrent/Protean
Attacks:
- Dark Pulse
- Mat Block/Protect/Extrasensory
- Hydro Pump/Hydro Cannon
- HP - Fire/Poison

Dark Pulse is dark STAB, Mat Block and protect for team and complete coverage, respectively. Extrasensory is for the choice scarf set. Hydro Pump is for no charging and cannon for more power. Hidden Power is preference of coverage.

I've not used Greninja yet, but his typing and low Defense leaves him pretty vulnerable to strong physical Fighting-types (Machamp, Conkelldurr, etc...), so I think he'll be somewhat limited. Weakness Policy is for the common weaknesses and choice scarf is to ensure he gets a couple of moves in. Thanks - First Post!

For the record, you never want to use three of the things you mentioned; Torrent, Choice Scarf, and Hydro Cannon.

Protean is what makes Greninja so dangerous; the combination of speed and Protean makes Greninja hard to keep down, due to the fact that its defensive typing will change constantly. As such there's no reason to use Torrent at all when Protean is so much better.

Furthermore, Choice Scarf defeats the purpose of Protean entirely. Greninja's constantly changing type is what makes him dangerous and more annoying to deal with, so if you're locked into one move, you've just eliminated the point of his ability. A Life Orb would be better suited to him, due to high speed but only average power. He also lacks the bulk to abuse Weakness Policy effectively, as any SE hit will likely OHKO him. Plus Protean is intended to actually avoid having him be hit for SE damage if possible, which would prevent Weakness Policy from working at all.

And of course, Hydro Cannon is god awful. The power may be high, but you give your opponent a free turn to set up, revenge kill, etc. It is NEVER worth it, especially considering anything with 75 power or more outdamages it across two turns. No Hyper Beam-esque move is ever worth using. In before Giga Impact on Slaking which is included in what I just said

 

[EonDragonFTW]

Woohoo, its the awesome ninja frog!
Protean is probably one of the best hidden abilities, as it allows Greninja to always have stab, and constantly changing type makes it almost impossible to get a SE hit on.

That base 122 speed is what makes it really dangerous, as it outspeeds many Pokemon.
Give it u-turn, and make it a scout. Not to mention it gets toxic spikes

But I'd recommend using Greninja as the special attacker to punch holes in the opponents team, and I believe it does that best

 

[The Imposter]

First, I want to say that the Delphox entry is completely fallacious and should not be hating on Delphox that much.

Anyway, Greninja is actually very potent. Protean and a base 122 Speed let it outspeed ALL the things and hit them with eternal STAB.

Greninja @ Life Orb
Trait: Protean
Hasty Nature
16 Atk/252 SAtk/240 Spe
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse / Ice Beam / HP Fire
- U-turn
- Ice Beam / HP Fire / Dark Pulse

Offensive Greninja. Not much to say here, choose the various options depending on what your team needs. Greninja also gets Spikes, but it's a bit too frail to set them up well.

 

[billy12451]

As of seeing Greninja I remain on team Delphox but I've since the start come to like Greninja and its NASTY TONGUE SCARF! So I've been using a Deadly Scouting set.
Greninja@ Metal Coat
Timid Nature,Protean
252 SpAtk/252 Speed/4 Atk
-Surf (Accuracy over Power)
-U-Turn (For bouncing out)
-Ice Beam (Self Explanatory)
-HP Steel (For any Fairy Leads)
The biggest problem I've run into is Psychic types funny enough but he does the job.
*Side Note mine has 31 Speed so outspeeding tends not to be a problem.*

 

[rotomotorz]

Greninja@Life Orb
Timid/Modest Nature
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Ability - Protean
Attacks:
- Hydro Pump/Surf/Dark Pulse/Ice Beam/Extrasensory/Grass Knot/Hidden Power Fire
- Hydro Pump/Surf/Dark Pulse/Ice Beam/Extrasensory/Grass Knot/Hidden Power Fire
- Hydro Pump/Surf/Dark Pulse/Ice Beam/Extrasensory/Grass Knot/Hidden Power Fire
- Mat Guard/Protect/Water Shuriken/Haze/U-turn

Greninja is a fast pokemon with a great movepool and ability. Hydro Pump and surf are both water coverage, depends on whether you want power or accuracy. Dark Pulse can defeat Psychics and Ghosts. Ice Beam can decimate grass and dragon types. Extrasensory covers Fighting and Poison types. Grass Knot covers bulky water types. Hidden Power Fire is for Ferrothorn and bulky steels. Mat Guard and Protect scout and change graninja's type. Water Shuriken has priority. Haze prevents the opponent from setting up. U-turn damages the opponent if you need to switch

 

[D-World]

Greninja No Jutsu

Greninja@ Leftovers/Weakness Policy
Timid Nature
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Ability -Protean
Attacks:
- Spikes
- Hydro Pump
- U-Turn / Ice Beam / Grass Knot / Dark Pulse / Taunt
- U-Turn / Ice Beam / Grass Knot / Dark Pulse / Taunt​

Greninja makes a great lead for a team. His speed, offensive stats and unpredictablity in the form of Protean make him hard to correctly answer (if you predict your opponent's attacks well, they should never or very rarely hit Greninja for SE damage unless they outspeed you). His access to Spikes means he can easily avoid Volt Switches and Thunderbolts whilst at the same time shielding him. Hydro Pump is Greninja's strongest move and gives off decent coverage. The rest is really up to preference. Taunt can counter a lot of leads such as Skarmory and Smeargle, Dark Pulse is a move that can hit Mega Gengar and Aegislash (both extremely powerful threats in 6th gen) for a lot of damage. Ice Beam counters Dragons (still annoying even with Fairies introduced) and flying types like Togekiss, Grass Knot can deal with Rotom-W, Gastrodon and Quagsire pretty neatly, and U-Turn can deal with Magic Bouncers like Espeon and Mega-Absol and also being able to switch in to an appropriate counter with style.
The choice of item depends on whether you think you can use Greninja effectively. If your opponent manages to predict your move and counter-attack you, Weakness Policy can ensure you reap what they have sown. Otherwise, I'd go for Leftovers, because Greninja will need to stay alive and wreck up your opponent's team for as long as possible.


And here's the other "Novelty" set, Physical Greninja

Even Ninjas can slap you.

Greninja@Life Orb/Weakness Policy
Jolly Nature
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Ability - Protean
Attacks:
- Waterfall
- Power-Up Punch
- Shadow Sneak / Night Slash
- Spikes / Water Shuriken / Rock Slide / U-Turn​

Greninja still has a base 95 attack, which is still viable offensively. It might also catch people expecting a special greninja off-guard (much like a special Aegislash). His physical movepool may not be as impressive as his special counterpart, but his access to STAB Shadow Sneak and possibly even Water Shuriken can make up for it. Power-Up Punch is Greninja's only means of boosting his attack, and it covers perfectly with Shadow Sneak (Night Slash is also available if you're looking for more power instead of speed). Waterfall is sadly Greninja's strongest physical move that hits in one turn (bar Giga Impact, and that's a definite no). The last slot is again, up to preference. Spikes is always a viable option in any set, Water Shuriken can break sashes and has priority, but it's a risky option. Rock Slide offers a good offensive coverage and has respectable power considering Greninja's movepool. U-Turn also works, but considering the stat boosts from Power-Up Punch, you might not want to use it.

The items of choice here are Life Orb or Weakness Policy, because Greninja's lackluster physical movepool needs to hit your opponents as hard as possible, and Life Orb/Assault Vest do so.

_

Obviously, special Greninja is better than Physical Greninja, but all in all, I find Greninja to be a very versatile and poweful pokemon. His best assets are his ability and his access to Spikes as well as how unpredictable he is. His defenses aren't the best, but if you use Protean correctly, they should never hit you for super-effective anyway.

Countering Greninja.

Protean is a really annoying ability to deal with. So far, the only solution I've found to succesfully work against Greninja is to outspeed him. After that, it's a piece of cake given Greninja's defensive stats. Whether is be a Scarfed Rotom/Manectric, Sticky Web or with Togekiss's Thunder Wave. If you can outspeed Greninja, then you can use Protean to your advantage and hit him for SE damage before he has a chance to change his type (this is why running Priority moves like Shadow Sneak, Water Shuriken and even Quick Attack are viable for Greninja).

 

[KillerDraco]

I think that we should perhaps agree to stop suggesting Weakness Policy for Greninja. It's perhaps one of the most counter-intuitive item you can suggest for it (barring Choice items). Its ability is intended for it not to take a SE hit, such that half the time Weakness Policy won't ever activate. And even if they do out-predict you and hit you with a SE hit, Greninja is so naturally frail that it's not going to be surviving (barring an extreme stroke of luck or a poorly EV trained Pokemon). Life Orb is the superior choice if you need more power due to being overall more reliable.

 

[Ixeilon]

All out attacker
Greninja - Life Orb/ Expert Belt
Protean
Hasty/Naive/Timid 252 S.Atk/ 252 Spd /4HP

Hydro Pump
Ice Beam
Grass Knot/ Dark Pulse
Shadow Sneak / Water Shuriken / Extrasensory



Lead/ Hazards
Greninja - Focus Sash
Protean
Hasty/Naive 252 S.Atk/ 252 Spd/ 4 HP

Toxic Spikes/Spikes
Ice Beam/Hydro Pump
U-Turn
Taunt

Greninja's speed enables him to outspeed many opposing leads and set hazards or prevent them from doing so.
Toxic Spikes is favoured because Greninja does not have the longevity(ala Skarmory) to stack multiple layers of Spikes. It should be noted that 1 layer of Toxic Spikes poison out damages 2 layers up until 3 turns. Of course you can choose to run Spikes if you wish to.
Ice Beam is the move of choice for general damage purposes. It hurts many switch ins like Dragon/Grass pokemon. Hydro Pump is for power and good neutral coverage.
U-Turn breaks sashes and sustains momentum.
Taunt is to prevent opposing leads such as Galvantula from setting up hazards.

 

[Jcvpenguin]

Greninja w/King's Rock
Adamant Nature
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Ability - Protean
Attacks:
- Fling
- Acrobatics
- Water Shuriken
- Shadow sneak

I know this just looks terrible without ice type moves to render those flying/dragon or grass/dragon o.o types useless, but surprise your opponent with a Physical Greninja!
Base 95 attack isn't half bad with the amazing ability and stab with every move. Think about it: when you go head to head with normal and fighting type moves, you could use shadow sneak to avoid such hazards (for example: mega kangaskhan :S). Starting off with fling to induce damage while flinching the opponent and attacking with acrobatics: Later on to finishing off the opponent with +1 speed priority moves: shadow sneak or water shuriken. Acrobatics is bound to hit any pokemon hard and with the speed of greninja, you could use acrobatics whenever a grass type dares to defy this honorable shinobi.

 

[Rockleon]

I haven't seen this set too often, But when I have it seemed pretty decent.

The Chunin Exams

Greninja@Assault Armor
Timid Nature
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
Ability - Torrent/Protean
Attacks:
- Dark Pulse
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump/Surf/Scald
- HP - Ghost/U-turn/Shadow-Sneak

This set makes him decently bulky, especially if you run scald for a water move. It makes him a team player and will probably work nice with wish support. U-turn if you want to scout, Hp Ghost/shadow-sneak is good for annoying fighting types.

 

[ajgrocks100]

Tis Frog is the best of the three starters. Hands. Down. I have two main sets with it:

Garbonzo
Protean Modest @LifeOrb
252 Speed/SpAttk, 4 Whatever.
-Surf/Scald/Hydro Pump
-GrassKnot/ Extrasensory/ Dark Pulse/ Ice beam
-GrassKnot/ Extrasensory/ Dark Pulse/ Ice beam
-Hidden Power (Fire or Poison)/ Mat Block/ Water Shurkien (If you use this, run Mild)/Spikes/Everything above

I dont need/have to explain why this set is great. First Three moves are obvious, but the last slot you should consider something different. With Greninjas speed, almost nothing can revenge kill it beside TalonFlame: Which, of course, is why you would carry water shruken. Other than that, hidden power (for lolz) Mat block to stall or change your type, and Spikes to set up hazards. This set is SUPER fun to use and counter other pokemon with.

First Strike

Adamant 252 HP/Attk, 4 Something Else, Life Orb
Protean
-Water Shurkien
-Protect/Mat Block
-Shadow Sneak
-Quick Attack(Power Up Punch/U-turn? Ruins somethings though D;

This set is fun to use. It almost perfectly counters aegislash when used correctly, and can KO a lot of stuff. Its almost perfect at revenge killing, and with protean you can change your type to better counter your foes. Its a very unexpected set, so play it that way: Dont use Shadow Sneak or Quick attack until you have to, or your opponent could predict you. Water Shurkien is your attack against neutral foes, which it sadly wont be hitting TOO hard, but enough to take on frail-ish sweepers

After Getting a 10 win streak on showdown with this set (LOL) i can say this set is kewl

 

[Kraleck]

Greninja. I've been looking forward to this for some time. Let's hope I'm not let down...

Stats:
-HP - Slightly-Above Average - Base 72 isn't great, but isn't terrible.
-Attack - Good-bordering-Great - Base 95 is pretty friggin' sweet.
-Defense - Below Average - Okay, problem numero uno...Base 67 is not so good on taking hits, even with Protean swapping your Type.
-Sp.Atk - Great - Base 103 is even sweeter than that Attack Base.
-Sp.Def - Below Average - Nombre deux on the negative column...Base 71 is, likewise, not good for taking hits despite Protean.
-Speed - Slightly-Above Godly (non-Trick Room) - Wow, wow, wow...getting hit by an opponent doesn't matter as much now...Base 122 is going to outrun most non-Legendary Pokémon, barring Noivern, Weavile, Swellow, Talonflame, Mega-Gengar, Crobat, Aerodactyl, Jolteon, Mega-Manectric, Electrode, Accelgor, Mega-Alakazam, and Ninjask. Even then, most of them don't have both Type Advantage AND Power.

Abilities:
-Torrent - Standard fare for a Water-Type Starter. However, unlike Bulletproof and Magician, Greninja's Hidden Ability is so much more useable...
-Protean - Pretty much the only Ability it'll ever need. Going to lose due to Type Advantage? 'Fraid not, pal...

Movepool:
-Physical - Hard to argue a point for something with good number in both offenses to just consider one side. Water Shuriken is a pretty wicked signature Move for both Multi-Hit AND Priority, Night Slash is standard Dark Type fare, Smack Down is an interesting option, Aerial Ace and Acrobatics are decent coverage, U-Turn is an obvious choice, and Rock Slide and Waterfall are made better by high Speed.
-Special - The primary offense should be undercut, however. Surf and Scald are obvious choices, Grass Knot is interesting with Protean, Ice Beam and Blizzard are good coverage (especially Blizzard during Hail with Protean), Extrasensory is pretty good with high Speed due to added Flinches, Dark Pulse is also standard Dark Type fare, and Hidden Power is always welcome for coverage.
-Status - Wow...a non-Normal Type that can do just about everything. Toxic, Toxic Spikes, Swagger, Substitute, Taunt, and Haze keep things lively, plus Mat Block is another signature Move worth noting.

 

[Missingno. Master]

STAB Ninja
Greninja@Expert Belt
Timid nature
Protean
252 Sp. Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
~Surf/Hydro Pump
~Dark Pulse
~Ice Beam/Blizzard
~Extrasensory

That's right, the Missingno. Master is back! And just in time for Generation VI, it seems, though I did miss out on contributing to Chesnaught and Delphox's analyses. But, oh well. Now, Greninja is easily the best of the three starters this time around in terms of sheer power and outright scariness. Hydro Pump, Dark Pulse, Blizzard, and Extrasensory have nice coverage, and more importantly, thanks to Greninja's Ability, it gets STAB on all of them.

Item further powers up super effective hits, and has personally worked well for me. As for the Ability, in addition to the aforementioned STAB on EVERYTHING, it's also useful to change Greninja's type in anticipation of an enemy attack. If you know you're not going to OHKO something that's going to go for a Fighting move, use Extrasensory so Greninja becomes a Psychic-type and resists it. I know it's frail, but believe me, sometimes it makes a difference.

Physical STAB Ninja
Greninja@Expert Belt
Adamant/Jolly nature
Protean
252 Atk/252 Spd/4 HP
~Water Shuriken
~Shadow Sneak
~Rock Slide
~Power-up Punch

Not quite as effective as its special attacking counterpart, but the option exists nevertheless. Greninja gets a pretty decent signature move in Water Shuriken, and as for why Shadow Sneak makes it in over Night Slash, it'll be exceptionally useful to be able to change Greninja to a Ghost-type. Immunity to Fighting is pretty decent. Other moves are for coverage, and in the case of Power-up Punch, also helps to boost that Attack stat.

Item and Ability have already been covered.


Other options:
*Greninja learns Acrobatics, which could be workable, but the Expert Belt is too useful to really get rid of.
*Another option is U-Turn, which could actually be worked into either set effectively enough.
*One of Greninja's Egg moves is Toxic Spikes, but let's be real here- Greninja's real strengths lie in hitting hard and fast. Supporting moves, not so much. It can't really afford to take many hits, so once you set up those two layers, that'll be pretty much it. Leave the Toxic Spikes to something with actual bulk.


Abilities:
*Torrent: When Greninja's HP goes below 1/3rd, its Water-type moves get a 50% boost. Not a bad Ability in and of itself, but... yeah, doesn't even come close to the sheer awesomeness of its Hidden Ability. There's really no reason to go for this over Protean.
*Protean: Greninja's Hidden Ability. Just before it attacks, Greninja changes its type to match the type of the move it's about to use. Basically, it gets STAB on everything. EVERYTHING. That alone should cement this Ability as one of the best ever as well as the reason why Greninja is the king of everything.

Partners:
Have a Greninja counter at the ready, because Greninja isn't exactly well-equipped for dealing with its own kind. Especially if you're running the special set- no super effective moves. Why it can't learn Focus Blast is beyond me... Also, you'll want something equipped with Rapid Spin or Defog for dealing with entry hazards.

Counters:
If you can outspeed Greninja, it won't be hard to deal with. Land a super effective hit before Protean has a chance to activate, and it's game over for Frogger here. That said, this may not be an option for physical variants,the ones that run several priority moves, but if you can predict what it'll do, that'll make it easier to deal with. Oh, and Sticky Web outright ruins it, so if you can set that up and prevent the opponent from removing it, you're good.

Opinion:
Greninja's become one of my most reliable Pokémon on random matchup, and not without reason. Besides its awesome Ability and beautiful stats, it looks cool. Though I generally advocate picking Chespin for in-game, one can't go wrong with Greninja for some serious battling.

Prediction for next week:
Slurpuff.

 

[Sol and Luna]

Greninja Choice Specs
Timid Nature
4 HP 252 Sp Atk 252 Spd
Ability Protean
Attacks
Hydro Pump or Surf
Ice Beam
Dark Pulse
Grass Knot

 

[jr0904]

For the record, you never want to use three of the things you mentioned; Torrent, Choice Scarf, and Hydro Cannon.

Protean is what makes Greninja so dangerous; the combination of speed and Protean makes Greninja hard to keep down, due to the fact that its defensive typing will change constantly. As such there's no reason to use Torrent at all when Protean is so much better.

Furthermore, Choice Scarf defeats the purpose of Protean entirely. Greninja's constantly changing type is what makes him dangerous and more annoying to deal with, so if you're locked into one move, you've just eliminated the point of his ability. A Life Orb would be better suited to him, due to high speed but only average power. He also lacks the bulk to abuse Weakness Policy effectively, as any SE hit will likely OHKO him. Plus Protean is intended to actually avoid having him be hit for SE damage if possible, which would prevent Weakness Policy from working at all.

And of course, Hydro Cannon is god awful. The power may be high, but you give your opponent a free turn to set up, revenge kill, etc. It is NEVER worth it, especially considering anything with 75 power or more outdamages it across two turns. No Hyper Beam-esque move is ever worth using. In before Giga Impact on Slaking which is included in what I just said

Not Quite. The only exception is of course Porygon Z with Adaptability which can One Hit KO any special defensive Blissey. and that hydro cannon set can be used but only for revenge killing which means you'll be sacrificing Greninja in the process. and from what heard it is used on some occassion.

Furthermore Protean is NOT available for it. And from the looks of things i highly doubt they'll ever release the hidden abilities of those that make it unfair. look at what they did to Chandelure. In gen 5 , its hidden ability was supposed to be Shadow Tag. but for some dumb ***** reason they changed it to the god awful infiltrator for gen 6. so i wouldnt hold my hopes up of protean being released anytime soon so you'll have to stick with torrent sets until then.

 

[jireh the provider]

Should we start using the Greninja'd quote as a Serebii infraction quote? Probably (sounding like an old Japanese sensei)

(Note: I'm trying to type and speak English in Japanese accent on this specific post. I hope it's still ok just for fun. That means, the L will be turned to R due to the Japanese pronounciation)



Anyways, ahhhhh ... the od days I trained that one poketo monsta whire it's stirr at rittre Froakie. Then to Frogadier. Ohhhh Greninja. You've become a powerfur Hokage at rast. I'm proud of you.

POKETA MONSTAR SUMMONING TECHNIQUE!

Item: Life Orb / Expert Belt
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk and Speed / 4 HP
Moveset:
-Hydro Pump / Scald
-Ice Beam / Taunt
-Dark Pulse / Extrasensory
-Hidden Power (typing is to one's preference)

Unrike Majority of those Unovian fools, they have to try hard just to tag him. Only a few got to do so. The rest got Ninja'd without a trace. Even if his enemies can expose his fraws, Protean makes him change his typing for it onry takes the high predictability and luck of an Arakazam to expose his initiated move (this one's an idiom). Thus, it takes predictabirity to use the correct move to bring him down arongside speed and Priority.

Possible Checks and Counters:

During his travers on the worrd, kantonese raedy (lady) Jolteon dated his speed and my student ended up rousing (losing) to her with speed and power. But my student did a coupre hits on her too.

 

[billy12451]

Not Quite. The only exception is of course Porygon Z with Adaptability which can One Hit KO any special defensive Blissey. and that hydro cannon set can be used but only for revenge killing which means you'll be sacrificing Greninja in the process. and from what heard it is used on some occassion.

Furthermore Protean is NOT available for it. And from the looks of things i highly doubt they'll ever release the hidden abilities of those that make it unfair. look at what they did to Chandelure. In gen 5 , its hidden ability was supposed to be Shadow Tag. but for some dumb ***** reason they changed it to the god awful infiltrator for gen 6. so i wouldnt hold my hopes up of protean being released anytime soon so you'll have to stick with torrent sets until then.

Protean IS available not only from Friend Safari but from the use of the new item the Ability Capsule. And there is no point to giving it a One hit kill suicide move with it having so much more potential.

 

[Ixeilon]

Protean is available through Frogadiers caught from the Friend Safari.

Infiltrator is good and it is worth using it over Flash Fire in some cases to deal with Subs and screens.(KLEFKI!)