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Community POTW #007

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jan 5, 2020.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Emboar_Rulez likes this.
  2. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    At first, I thought Dragovish would be a complete liability. Yes, it has a very strong move in fishious rend, boosted to absurd damage by strong jaw. But it also has completely the wrong speed tier to use that move (with no way to boost its speed) and is fairly predictable. Its not good to rely on outspeeding to do massive damage, when your base speed is 75. Its defences are okay, but helped by its solid defensieve typing.

    A lot of the important mons that it just outspeeds are quite resistant to fishious rend. Seismitoad, Tsareena, Flapple.

    But it turns out, that along with having solid defensive typing, and the fact that it simply does that much damage, it really has been one of the standout competitive pokemon of Gen VIII. Especially since Intimidate is so much less prominent in this meta. Either with a scarf or band, its one of the most effective mons in OU. Even the biggest tanks don't particularly want to take damage from a banded fishious rend. Its also not something that you want to see with tailwind or trick room up.

    Some significant calcs
    252+ Atk Life Orb Dracovish Fishious Rend (85 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Arcanine: 195-229 (98.9 - 116.2%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO
    252+ Atk Life Orb Dracovish Dragon Rush vs. 124 HP / 148 Def Gastrodon: 109-129 (53.9 - 63.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252+ Atk Life Orb Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Grimmsnarl: 230-270 (135.2 - 158.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Life Orb Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 228 HP / 252+ Def Snorlax: 153-181 (57.9 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    You'll want some chip damage on TTar.
    252+ Atk Life Orb Dracovish Fishious Rend (85 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 151-179 (85.7 - 101.7%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO

    That said, here's a set to be used under trick room in VGC.

    Dracovish @ Life Orb
    Ability: Strong Jaw
    Level: 50
    EVs: 180 HP / 252 Atk / 76 SpD
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Fishious Rend
    - Dragon Rush
    - Protect
    - Crunch/Rock Slide/Earthquake/Zen headbutt
  3. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Well-Known Member

    Psychic Fangs could also be a possible option. The ability to break Screens is always a good ability to have.
    Leonhart likes this.
  4. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Dracovish is a newcomer that has really benefited from the reduced roster. While yes, Fairies and Dragons are still a significant problem for Dracovish and it does not have an answer to the perennial water counter Ferrothorn... Unless it is raining, upon which Fishious Rend becomes the strongest attack in the game and can muscle through Ferrothorn. And since the Tapu's are not coming to Galar, Fairies are not as omnipresent as they were in Gen VII, and none of them (save Whimsicott on sets lacking Ice Fang) can come in safely. Most Dragons are faster and have powerful Super Effective STABs of their own, but again cannot switch in safely for fear of a predicted STAB Dragon/Strong Jaw boosted Ice Fangs). So anything that counters Dracovish is not coming and anything that is here needs a free switch or Dracovish will break it.

    252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 179-211 (50.8 - 59.9%) -- 85.9% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Corsola-Galar: 222-263 (68.5 - 81.1%)
    252+ Atk Life Orb Strong Jaw Dracovish Psychic Fangs vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Toxapex: 164-195 (53.9 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Black Sludge recovery

    Here is a popular Scarf set for OU Singles:

    The Ultimate Chimera?!

    Ability: Strong Jaw
    Item: Choice Scarf
    -Fishious Rend
    -Psychic Fangs
    -Dragon Rush/Ice Fang
    Nature: Jolly (+SPE, -SATK) or Adamant (+ATK, -SATK)
    EVs: Standard Sweeper Array (4 HP/252 ATK/252 SPE)

    While lacking the outright wallbreaking power of Life Orb/Choice Band sets, Choice Scarf enables Dracovish to outspeed a much wider range of threats: Jolly Nature allows Dracovish to outspeed up to positive natured base speed 88 (Excadrill) and neutral nature base 100 (this is assuming max speed investment), while Adamant gives a bit of extra punch to all of Dracovish's other moves, enabling it to catch KOs that are out of reach otherwise (like a probable OHKO on Conkeldurr). This, combined with Dracovish's amazing typing and decent defenses (90/90/80) makes Dracovish a difficult threat to take down.

    Fishious Rend's praises have been sung enough times, while Crunch, Psychic Fangs and Ice Fang provide Pseudo-STAB coverage thanks to Strong Jaw, while Dragon Rush is a stronger STAB option for other Dragons.

    Note that this set functions as a pseudo revenge killer and does not have the wall killing power of Choice Band or Life Orb sets, so standard walls (Ferrothorn, G-Corsola, Toxapex, Corviknight) can handle this set much easier.

    Preferred Partners
    -Entry Hazard setters as usual. In addition to the usual chip damage enabling clean KOs, Sticky Web enables Dracovish to outspeed a wider variety of threats, thus boosting the power of Fishious Rend in most situations.
    -Rain Setters -the boost to Fishious Rend under rain cannot be understated and turns Dracovish into a near unwallable beast. Pelipper is great for this due to having access to Tailwind, again boosting Dracovish's speed.
    -Paralysis Spreaders. Anything with Thunder Wave is great at slowing down the opposing team, again enabling Dracovish more Fishious Rend boosts.


    Dracovish is an interesting case for Dynamaxing. While Choice sets appreciate the Choice break, as far as I can tell, Strong Jaw does not boost Max Moves. While the increase in base power for the most part makes the moves stronger (with Strong Jaw: Crunch has base 120 vs Max Move base 130, Psychic Fangs has 127 vs Max Move base 130 and Ice Fang sits at 96 vs Max Move base 120) , Dracovish does lose the overwhelming power of Fishious Rend when outspeeding. However, Dracovish does enjoy the Rain setting of Max Geyser and Psychic Terrain works great in boosting Psychic Fangs as well as blocking priority. Dracovish's better than Average HP means that it is also terrifying bulky during dynamax. On the whole, while there are better abusers of Dynamax, Dracovish can make it work with a good deal of ease.
    Leonhart likes this.
  5. XaelOstigian

    XaelOstigian Competitive...kinda

    Dracovish's strategy in a nutshell:
    Step 2: WIN

    I actually wanted to run Dracovish on my competitive team but after seeing all the damage calculations (Faster Fishious Rend x STAB x Strong Jaw x Choice Band) I was pretty certain this FrankenFossil was to get banned quickly. Imagine to my surprise that G-Darmanitan got the boot first while Dracovish is allowed to continue devouring everything in OU. Honestly, it seems all of the FrankenFossils have some amazing potential in one form or another. Kinda makes me wonder what their original fossils looked like and if they were OP before or just became OP after the fossil fusion. And if it's the latter reason, can you only imagine what would happen if ALL of the fossils were combined together?
  6. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Give us a harder Pokemon next time. There is not much to go nuts here since Dracovish is so straightforward you guys literally don't need any of our input to decide on a good Fishious Rend set unless you intend on posting gimmicky alternative sets.
  7. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show


    People haven't really talked about checks and counters to Dracovish, so I'll post a few of those. Dracovish is such a ridiculous threat to switch into that it has basically mandated a Water immunity or 4x resist on any team that doesn't want to lose in 6 turns to Fishious Rend spam, and many Pokemon are viable almost purely because they can check it without being complete deadweight when it doesn't appear on the opposing team. Having a single 2x resistance to Water is not enough, this monster can 2HKO Ferrothorn and Toxapex with a resisted move, and that's not even factoring in Rain, which commonly employs Dracovish as a nigh unwallable breaker. You either need a complete immunity to Water, or a 4x resistance. Here are a few Pokemon that fit that bill;

    Gastrodon @ Leftovers
    Sassy - Storm Drain
    252 HP, 104 Defence, 152 Sp. Def
    -Clear Smog / Ice Beam

    Gastrodon is well-known as a massive thorn in the side of Rain teams and Water-type attackers in general, so it's no surprise that it makes a great answer to Dracovish. Scald is the obligatory STAB move, and usually you'll want to toss it at Dracovish a few times until you get that burn, which makes it much easier to deal with. Earthquake is chosen over Earth Power as it guarantees the OHKO on Gengar and provides more damage against specially bulky Pokemon like Hatterene. Recover keeps Gastrodon in the fight, while the last slot can go to either Clear Smog to erase stat boosts from troublesome sweepers, or Ice Beam to act as a better and more immediate check to Dragapult. The simple presence of Gastrodon on your team means that Choice-locked variants of Dracovish can't get away with simply spamming Fishious Rend mindlessly every time they come in, which is huge in the matchup against it. However, you must beware of Choice Band Outrages. While it's rare that Dracovish will want to lock itself into Outrage, it will 2HKO you if it does. Pair Gastrodon with a Fairy such as Hatterene or Clefable for the best results.

    Vaporeon @ Leftovers
    Bold - Water Absorb
    248 HP, 252 Defence, 8 Sp. Def
    -Haze / Yawn / Ice Beam

    Vaporeon is quite the slept-on threat at the moment, and benefited hugely from Dexit removing a large portion of its competition as a bulky Water and as a Wish passer. It sports the largest Wishes available in Sword and Shield, great mono-Water typing, fantastic bulk, and Water Absorb, which make it an excellent stop to Dracovish that can also support its team by keeping teammates who lack their own reliable recovery (such as Ferrothorn and Rotom-Heat) healthy with Wish. The set is fairly straightforward. The last slot can go to any utility move you wish, or to a coverage move such as Ice Beam to better check the likes of Dragapult and Hydreigon.

    Seismitoad @ Leftovers
    Relaxed - Water Absorb
    252 HP, 252 Defence, 4 Sp. Def
    -Stealth Rock

    Seismitoad is another big winner from Dexit as it also faces less competition for the roles it fulfills. Where Gastrodon fits in best on more defensive teams thanks to its access to Recover, Seismitoad finds his home on balance and even more offensive archetypes thanks to the ability to set up Stealth Rock, and being one of relatively few Pokemon who retained access to Toxic after it was dropped as a TM in Sword/Shield. Scald is Scald, Earthquake is picked on this set to more heavily damage the likes of Tyranitar and specially defensive Excadrill, Toxic lets him cripple bulky walls that might try and switch into him, and Stealth Rock allows him to support his team with entry hazards.

    Appletun @ Leftovers
    Bold - Thick Fat
    248 HP, 252 Def, 8 Sp. Def
    -Apple Acid
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Leech Seed

    Appletun also acts as a decent check to Dracovish, but it must be wary of Ice Fang and Outrage. Thanks to its Grass/Dragon typing, it sports a 4x resistance to Fishious Rend, which lets it stomach it a lot easier than most Pokemon (don't get too cocky though, you're still losing over a quarter of your health to a Choice Band Rend). Apple Acid lowers the opponent's Sp. Def by 1 each use, which makes it difficult for many Pokemon to sit in front of him for too long. Dragon Pulse provides a more immediate stop to Dracovish and other Dragons, Leech Seed lets him annoy switchins and pass some passive recovery to teammates, and Recover keeps him healthy.

    Jellicent @ Leftovers
    Bold - Water Absorb
    248 HP, 200 Def, 60 Speed
    -Strength Sap

    Jellicent got access to a new toy this generation in Strength Sap, a recovery move that recovers HP based on the opponent's Attack stat, which then lowers their Attack. This along with Will-O-Wisp lets Jellicent act as an amazing check to many physical atrtackers (it's worth noting that Strength Sap calculates its healing based on the raw Attack stat, so burns do not affect it), and Dracovish is no exception. Well, most of the time. Strong Jaw boosted Crunch is a problem for Jellicent so it does take some prediction to use him against Dracovish, but he does discourage Dracovish from clicking Fishious Rend every time it comes in. Hex gets excellent synergy with Will-O-Wisp and allows you to chip down burned threats with a 130 base power STAB Ghost move. Finally Taunt is used in the last slot to shut down attempts to set up, and also to prevent slower opponents such as Corviknight from using recovery moves. This particular set is EV'd to outspeed standard Corviknight, with the rest being used to maximize physical bulk.

    There are a few other options to explore, such as Mantine, Ludicolo, and Lanturn, but these are some of the most common Dracovish answers you'll see and use in the current metagame.

  8. GeeGee

    GeeGee Late to the party

    +Fishious Rend backed with STAB and Strong Jaw is the single strongest hitting move in the game, think Araquanid's Water bubble-boosted liquidation and even stronger, and can be further boosted by choice band and rain
    +Water/Dragon is solid typing, giving only 2 weaknesses and being neutral to grass, electric, and ice while being resistant to fire, water and steel
    +Huge movepool including Fishious rend, crunch, psychic fangs, rock slide, ice fang, outrage, iron head, and more
    +90/100/80 bulk is pretty solid for an offensive mon that hits like a truck

    -Not that it needs it, but no way to boost power through moves like swords dance or agility limits its potential
    -90 attack is pretty low without a strong jaw boost
    -75 speed is not good, requiring you to run choice scarf or have tailwind support or some other form of speed control
    -This ungodly abomination has literally shaped the meta, forcing Water absorb mons to flood the competitive scene

    Thank you Mr. Fish
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    Item: Choice Band/Choice Scarf
    Ev's: 252 Atk/4Sp.def/252Spe
    Ability: Strong Jaw
    Moves: -Fishious Rend
    -Psychic Fangs/Ice Fang
    -Outrage/Low Kick

    Even though Fishious Rend is what you'll be spamming most of the time, it's important to have coverage for Dracovish's multiple counters that keep popping up. Crunch is for jellicent, Psychic fangs for Toxapex, and Low kick for Ferrothorn. Low kick also hits tyranitar. Ice fang is just good coverage backed by strong jaw. Other options include leech life for recovery, stone edge/rock slide for flying types, iron head for fairies and earthquake for steels.

    Mr. fish can be either a powerful wallbreaker and slapped into any team, or you can have it be your sweeper and have multiple support mons on your team for it. Tailwind support from Whimsicott and Corviknight is appreciated. Pelipper is especially good since it sets up rain to boost Fishious rend's power, and can also set up tailwind. Grass types or grass type attacks are needed to remove gastrodon and seismitoad.
    Leonhart likes this.
  9. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Weird. I'm surprised no one here mentioned Dragapult being a scary and obvious counter against Dracovish.
  10. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    That's because it's not a counter. By definition, a counter must be able to safely switch in and either KO or force the opponent out.

    252+ Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dragapult: 337-397 (106.3 - 125.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    That's far from a safe switch-in, especially since Dracovish is often paired with rain support.

    What Dragapult can do, however, is check Dracovish. A check, by definition, may not be able to safely switch in, but if it is in, either due to a prior teammate being KOed, or other factors (eject button, slow U-turn, etc.), then it can KO or force the opponent out. It can do that, since Dragapult at max speed outspeeds even Choice Scarf Jolly Dracovish.
    Divine Retribution likes this.
  11. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    I see. Still weird that there's no mention of Dragapult. Both physical and special Dragapult are pretty scary against that fish.
  12. XaelOstigian

    XaelOstigian Competitive...kinda

    I just thought of another check to Dracovish running Choice Band. One that no one has mentioned.
    Water/Dragon + Freeze-Dry = Death
    Not a whole lot of fast users however since Alolan Nineltails can't be transferred over yet. Maybe Galarian Mr. Mime? (-_-)'
    shoz999 likes this.
  13. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Simply being able to revenge kill Dracovish is generally not enough to not lose to it. It requires no setup and therefore loses next to nothing by simply switching out of a matchup against Dragapult or the like, and coming in later to claim another free kill if you don't have a solid switchin. Stopping Dracovish from flat out 6-0ing you isn't enough, you also need to stop it from dismantling your team piece by piece and opening holes for other sweepers such as Barraskewda to take advantage of.
  14. Charasan

    Charasan New Member

    Water Absorb Lapras + Freeze Dry? Not the fastest, but it doesn't need to be since most Dracovish I've seen to date are Choice Dracos.
  15. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Lapras makes a pretty solid answer to Dracovish but must watch out for Low Kick, and after Stealth Rock a Choice Band Outrage can also 2HKO you (Adamant Choice Band has a chance to 2HKO you without rocks but Leftovers negates that chance, so running Heavy-Duty Boots doesn't really get you out of hot water in this case). The problem with Lapras is really that it doesn't do much else outside of check Dracovish. In theory it would also make a good answer to things like Seismitoad as well but in practice you get Toxic'ed and cry. If only Life Dew was a 50% recovery move in Singles or something, but with its only recovery options being Life Dew's measly 25% or Rest with all its drawbacks, Lapras doesn't have the staying power of something like Gastrodon, and it lacks access to important utility moves like Stealth Rock or Will-O-Wisp like some of the other checks to Dracovish can carry.
    Mestorn likes this.
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