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Community POTW #013

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kirant

Member
Excadrill outclasses it in every single way.

Excadrill, 9/10 times, will be better for the team, I agree. I think unless you've got niche needs for Donphan, Excadrill's your Pokemon.

That being said, it's not like Donphan doesn't have its uses. Between the two, Excadrill has a huge weakness to Earthquake. So much so that it typically runs items just to prevent itself from being hurt by them.

I'm an MtG player, so outclassing in every way is really hard to see. In MtG, to be "strictly better", you have to be doing everything better. In most of the roles it is requested, again, Excadrill probably is much better. Typical Rapid Spin support, it probably is. It can find a favourable match up much easier than Donphan because of its Steel typing (who struggles against all special sweepers and many wall opponents). Game ender? Exacadrill can abuse Swords Dance and can easily go 2-3 KOs before being stopped, even with is 60 defence and more average speed this time around (due to lack of Sandstorm support if you go that route). Hits Levitate? Yup. It can do that too. Rotom-W poses almost no threat to Excadrill (OHKO) while Donphan is sent running after the switch in. And the mighty drilling mole thing has better coverage to boot. Finally, many of Excadrill's greatest threats are also Donphan's.

That being said, outclass in EVERY way isn't something that I see too often. Donphan had niche uses in Generation 5 and I think will continue to have niche uses in Generation 6. I think Smogon's monthly stats can easily tell you something: Donphan has use. It finds itself in the same range as Tentacruel, Mawile, and Blissey in commonality. I've seen a few; people don't vary from the straight and narrow most of the time. It's much like throwing Amoonguss on your team: It has one use and one use only. But if you need it, it can provide that role. Other stats tell you it's 4 moveset really isn't changing, even with the introduction of Play Rough. It is used in less than 15% of all Donphan (would post, but my account doesn't have enough posts to let me put up URLs yet)

I think the biggest factor is that Donphan is a standard Stealth Rocks/Rapid Spin setter if you need one. Forretress, to memory, is the only other common Rapid Spin/Stealth Rock wielder. Excadrill can do it as well, but it has as to rely fully on HP in its 110/60/65 bulk. Donphan can reliably, though it'll get murdered for it, set up on the ever common Talonflame (3HKO on Donphan if you need it to be done) whereas Excadrill steps out, says hi, and collapses. Especially since you aren't likely to be running Rock Slide if you are using Stealth Rocks.

Outclassing in every way is an exaggeration, but not far from it.
 
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YagamiNoir4896

Well-Known Member
250px-530Excadrill.png

Excadrill outclasses it in every single way.

That's an overexaggeration. A really big one, in fact.

Donphan has access to Knock Off. This is significant in the fact that it completely ruins things like Trevenant and Gliscor on switch in, and even Ghost types find themselves hard to switch in especially since Assault Vest Donphan stands as a potent check to Aegislash, mixed or not. Spinning Excadrill is completely helpless against things like Gourgeist and Trevenant, two prominent defensive spinblockers in standard. It can only beat them with either Sub/Swords Dance, Lum Berry (lel), or a lucky Iron Head flinch or Shadow Claw crit. Since Rock Slide is ever popular for Talonflame, Excadrill can really only afford to run Rapid Spin + 3 attacks for valuable coverage, but no Swords Dance means it doesn't hit that hard either. It hits hard, but it loses to many things with no SD. Oh, weaknesses to Mach Punch and Vaccum Wave matter as well, and while Steel is a good defensive typing is got nerfed hard in this gen and common weaknesses to Earthquake/Scald/Fire Blast/Close Combat don't do it any particular favours as a defensive spinblocker. Donphan has access to a far better offensive movepool (like it even needs it anyways) and priority Ice Shard, and while it's vulnerable to Toxic and lacks resists, lacking weaknesses, especially common ones, are arguably much more valuable defensive wise.

While Excadrill has superior special bulk, the physical bulk and lack of weaknesses to common physical moves (aka Ground and Fighting moves) make it better of a defensive spinner in general. Excadrill is an offensive spinner with the abililty to beat common spinblockers and Levitate users depending on set, but Donphan is more of a physically defensive tank spinner which has Sturdy, meaning that it will always live a hit, unlike Excadrill (inb4 Sash). Saying that Excadrill outclasses Donphan is every way is absolutely ridiculous seeing that the spinners run two different ways.
 

Azulart

Shiny Hunter
Why do people compare Exca with Donphan? They have very diffrent rolls.. ( I hate it when people do that. )

yeah they both have rapid spin but Donphan Is either an Physical Waller or an Slow-Tank (Defensive Rapid Spinner) while Exca is more an Offensive Rapid spinner, they each have it's ninches
but they are not compareable, Sandslash and Excadrill are rather compareable if you must.

Anyway here's my set, I recall facing it once and I liked the diversity in it.

Donphan @ Rocky Helmet
Abillity: Sturdy
Nature: Adamant
Ev's: 252 attk, 252 spd, 4 Def.
- Rapid Spin
- Endeavor
- Ice Shard
- Earthquake

This set speaks for itself and not mentioned yet as far as I have read here, and deserves a small mention nonetheless.
The story is simple; Get a hit, survive with 1 HP use endeavor and get the kill with Ice Shard. Rocky Helmet is there to make sure that after the Endeavor
you will still kill the target no matter if he has moves like Bullet punch or Mach punch and outspeeds you on the Ice shard.
 

Neosonic97

Fastest thing Alive
Kraleck said:
Sp.Def - Mediocre - Unfortunately, your armor isn't fully impenetrable. Base 60 needs some help.
Base 60 is a 'little' worse than mediorcre. It's terribad, that's what. Pikachu has base 50. That's a mere difference of ten. And EVERYONE knows how well Pikachu takes hits.

p.s: 'little' is an understatement by miles, Base 60 is garbage for defences.

Azulart said:
Rocky Helmet is there to make sure that after the Endeavor
you will still kill the target no matter if he has moves like Bullet punch or Mach punch and outspeeds you on the Ice shard.
I know I'm nitpicking here but it will fall to a Vacuum Waver. It does give a nice check to Belly Drum Azumarills, though.
 

Azulart

Shiny Hunter
I know I'm nitpicking here but it will fall to a Vacuum Waver. It does give a nice check to Belly Drum Azumarills, though.

Not really nitpicking, just stating the obvious rather.. The only notable Vacumm Wave user is Lucario due that I did not really mention it.

I agree on the Azumarill. This set is quite suicidale, but its nice to stop your opponent from sweeping your team if it so happends.
But the standard sets of Donphan are better, this set is just a diffrent option.
 

_Sylveon_

Indigo Champion
That's an overexaggeration. A really big one, in fact.

Donphan has access to Knock Off. This is significant in the fact that it completely ruins things like Trevenant and Gliscor on switch in, and even Ghost types find themselves hard to switch in especially since Assault Vest Donphan stands as a potent check to Aegislash, mixed or not. Spinning Excadrill is completely helpless against things like Gourgeist and Trevenant, two prominent defensive spinblockers in standard. It can only beat them with either Sub/Swords Dance, Lum Berry (lel), or a lucky Iron Head flinch or Shadow Claw crit. Since Rock Slide is ever popular for Talonflame, Excadrill can really only afford to run Rapid Spin + 3 attacks for valuable coverage, but no Swords Dance means it doesn't hit that hard either. It hits hard, but it loses to many things with no SD. Oh, weaknesses to Mach Punch and Vaccum Wave matter as well, and while Steel is a good defensive typing is got nerfed hard in this gen and common weaknesses to Earthquake/Scald/Fire Blast/Close Combat don't do it any particular favours as a defensive spinblocker. Donphan has access to a far better offensive movepool (like it even needs it anyways) and priority Ice Shard, and while it's vulnerable to Toxic and lacks resists, lacking weaknesses, especially common ones, are arguably much more valuable defensive wise.

While Excadrill has superior special bulk, the physical bulk and lack of weaknesses to common physical moves (aka Ground and Fighting moves) make it better of a defensive spinner in general. Excadrill is an offensive spinner with the abililty to beat common spinblockers and Levitate users depending on set, but Donphan is more of a physically defensive tank spinner which has Sturdy, meaning that it will always live a hit, unlike Excadrill (inb4 Sash). Saying that Excadrill outclasses Donphan is every way is absolutely ridiculous seeing that the spinners run two different ways.

252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 220-259 (58.8 - 69.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Mold Breaker Excadrill Iron Head vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 109-130 (29.1 - 34.7%) -- 99.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

So it can't beat Gourgeist, but it is not even used in OU. Plus,
4 Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gourgeist-Super: 102-122 (27.2 - 32.6%) -- 64.6% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
4 Atk Donphan Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Trevenant: 206-244 (55 - 65.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Yeah, it can totally beat them better than Excadrill >_>. Donphan is weak to Scald too btw, but did I forget to mention that it can ****ing switch out? Every Pokemon can, of course it will be scared of what it is weak to, and btw:
252 Atk Life Orb Iron Fist Infernape Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Excadrill: 265-315 (73.2 - 87%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 SpA Adaptability Mega Lucario Vacuum Wave vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 264-312 (72.9 - 86.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Please use a real way Donphan fails to be outclassed by Excadrill, those are terrible examples mang.
 

sbktdreed

Veteran Trainer
Sand Veil w/ Focus Sash OR Sturdy w/ Liechi Berry
Adamant w/ 252 Attack, 252 Defense, 6 HP
Earthquake
Fire Fang/Stone Edge
Fire Fang/Poison Jab/Ice Shard/Bounce
Thunder Fang/Seed Bomb/Endeavor/Rapid Spin

Countering-
High Special Attack and Defense with Water/Grass/Ice-type moves like Energy Ball Cofagrigus, Tangrowth, Glaceon, Slowbro, Wash/Frost/Mow Rotom, or Gorebyss.
 
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Kraleck

Well-Known Member
Sand Veil w/ Focus Sash OR Sturdy w/ Liechi Berry
Adamant w/ 252 Attack, 252 Defense, 6 HP
Earthquake
Fire Fang/Stone Edge
Fire Fang/Poison Jab/Ice Shard/Bounce
Thunder Fang/Seed Bomb/Endeavor/Rapid Spin

Let me point out the combo of Sturdy Ability, Endeavor, and Ice Shard for fellow readers. It's a good mind-game tactic - they are forced to either make a Switch to prevent a KO, but risk getting another Pokémon at 1 HP, or stay (risking KO), but not get another Pokémon at 1 HP. It's a cheap-yet-risky tactic I approve of. Any time you can play mind games is a plus in my book.

The problems with that combo include enemy Priority (if they have higher Speed, you're getting KO'd by a Priority Move first), Ghost Types (immune to Endeavor), and Pokémon that don't rely on raw power for KOs (won't get you to that 1 HP threshold). The bonus? You aren't limited to 2 Moves with Donphan - Earthquake and a coverage Move will help sort out the riff-raff that Endeavor + Ice Shard cannot. On a plus note, some Ghost Types that would be immune to Earthquake, like Gengar or the various appliance Rotom, aren't likely to be faced with Donphan's level of utility. Drifblim, maybe, but it already has issues from Ice Shard and Stone Edge/Rock Slide.
 
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