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Community POTW #016

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Feb 9, 2014.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Time for the next Pokémon of the Week, and this time we've got a classic!

    [​IMG]

    It's Swellow, the "generic" bird from Hoenn. Contrary to what it appears, Swellow can be one of the more brutal Flying-type Pokémon.

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/277.shtml

    Go nuts
     
  2. Carter2100

    Carter2100 Member

    Swellow
    Item: Toxic orb/ flame orb
    Ability: Guts
    Evs: 252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Hp

    Brave Bird
    Steel wing/ Return/ Quick Attack
    U-turn
    Protect

    Protect to activate guts. Brave Bird and Return as STAB. Steel Wing for Fairies or Quick Attack for priority. U-turn could be used to switch into a better counter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  3. chap196

    chap196 Well-Known Member

    Overview
    Swellow is not a bad Pokemon with extremely high Speed of 125 (faster than Greninja) and also has the ability Guts which will raise its Attack when it gets status Condition, so it can be used with Flame Orb. The problem with it is its low Defense, Sp.Def and HP.

    Positive:
    -It has impressive Speed stats, enough to outspeed Geeninja
    -Guts allows it to have high attack and can be used with Flame Orb

    Negative:
    -It is very frail with 60 HP, 60 Def and 50 Special Defense.
    -Its movepool isn't that good.
    -Even with Guts boost, its attack isn't that high.
    -Stealth Rock takes up 25% of its HP which doesn't allow it to switch in often.
     
  4. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Ah, Swellow, one of the classics from Hoenn. I do not understand why a generic bird would need Sweet Scent to come out in Kalos, but that might just be me.

    Typing: Normal-Flying, the typing preferred by all generic bird Pokemon. It’s arguable whether or not the Normal subtype does more harm than good, trading a fighting resistance for a ghost immunity. The combo balances out to 2 resistances, 2 immunities and 3 weaknesses. That and it is exposed to Stealth Rock, but immune to the other entry Hazards.
    Offensively Normal-Flying is subpar, with both STABs being resisted by Rock and Steel types. With many possessors of these types having no viable attack types outside of their STABs, this is very problematic.

    Stats: Little good can be said about Swellow. The thing that stands out most is that fantastic base speed of 125, which is only outsped by a few pokemon. Base 85 ATK is the other good thing, but that is barely above 80, meaning Swellow struggles to hurt things, or would if not for its ability. After this, Generic bird 3.0 plummets: 60/60/50 (HP/DEF/SDEF) defenses is frail at best and paper-like at worst. Beyond this sentence, Swellow’s SATK is not worth mentioning.

    Ability: Swellow is another pokemon made by its ability. Guts turns Swellow’s slightly better than 80 ATK in a viscous raptor like state of doom and destruction, allowing it to hunt down many a slower pokemon. Don’t use Scrappy: Rotom-Normal is the only thing you would gain to hit.

    Moveset: As mentioned before, most Normal-Flying types have few respectable moves outside their STABs, and Swellow does not surprise. Aside of STABs like Brave Bird and Facade, Swellow’s physical movepool consists of U-Turn, Pursuit and Steel Wing. Yep, that’s it. As much variety as you would expect of a swallow sitting outside your window. Aside from the standard support moves, Swellow possesses a few choice gems in Tailwind, Defog, and Whirlwind, but considering that Swellow is as sturdy as swiss cheese, it is better off attacking. Also, why the heck does Swellow get Boomburst?

    The Verdict: All birds must land eventually. With Guts, Swellow can implement a reign of terror by raining terror onto anything not made of Rock or Steel. The problem is that Guts puts Swellow on a timer, and combined with vulnerabilities to priority and Stealth Rock, the Generic Bird 3.0 will fall.
     
  5. Zekromaster826

    Zekromaster826 Casual Shiny Hunter

    As the description says swellow can be pretty devastating under the right circumstances. 125 speed is nothing to scoff at, but mediocre stats otherwise cripple it, especially with an average 85 attack stat. Priority pokemon like Talonflame and Scizor laugh at it as well, with poor defenses and hp this thing wont survive many hits. However, this thing can still do some ridiculous damage. But being weak to rocks and priority will

    -Protect
    -Facade
    -Brave Bird
    -U-turn/Quick Attack
    Item Attached: Flame Orb
    Ability: Guts
    EVs and Nature:
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Jolly/Adamant Nature

    STAB + Guts boost + Facade boost can do some serious damage. With Swellow being very fast as well, it can be a very nice damage dealer. Protect lets you get up a free flame orb turn, Facade for reasons previously stated, Brave Bird for more stab (but beware of the recoil so dont just throw these out all willy-nilly), U-turn could give you a safe swap in most cases, but if you want priority instead quick attack is a decent option as well. The Flame Orb is to set up the Guts+facade boost and while Toxic orb is useable, Toxic orb works as badly poisoned, so it will die even quicker than it already will, and with Guts the half att from burn doesn't happen, so Flame orb is better than toxic orb.
     
  6. Meowmeow

    Meowmeow selfproclaimed guru

    Swellow is quickly becoming a forgotten predator. With the likes of Staraptor being superior for a long time, Swellow is not looking so great. The addition of Talonflame doesn't help.
    However, in lower tiers, Swellow is quite a fearsome foe. Guts is a great ability on physically oriented Normal types like Swellow thanks to STAB Facade. With Swellow's high speed, it very quickly devastate unprepared teams.
    The problem is, most teams ARE prepared for Pokemon like Swellow, especially with the arrival of Talonflame.

    The only set you will see:
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 attack and speed, 4 HP
    @: Flame Orb

    Facade
    Brave Bird
    Roost/Protect
    U-Turn/Steel Wing

    Pretty much everyone will have something similar to this set, so I won't bother explaining it.
     
  7. Kraleck

    Kraleck Well-Known Member

    Say what you will, there's nothing generic about these generic birds. Pidgeot may be able to Mix and Talonflame may have Priority, but Swellow's niche lies within Guts and a largely Physical Movepool. Tack on Ghost-Type and Ground-Type Move immunity and you've got one of my ten favorite Hoenn Pokémon.

    Stats:
    -HP - Below Average - A rough start, but you can't argue much about a Flying Type's ability to take hits with Base 60 when Stealth Rock is such a pain. You tie Dodrio, Hoothoot, and Butterfree and are barely below Tranquill.
    -Attack - Above Average - Not the best with Base 85, but you have Guts to rely on - Talonflame and Pidgeot can't boast that level of oomph.
    -Defense - Mediocre - Base 60 isn't exactly "take hits" worthy either for Flying Types. You tie Emolga and Swablu and, again, are barely below Tranquill.
    -Sp.Atk - Bad - Not worth using Base 50 if Guts has no effect on it. Much less so with that Physical-dominant Movepool.
    -Sp.Def - Bad - The only thing worse for Swellow than a stone to the wing is getting struck by lightning. Base 50 is tied with Beautifly, Mothim, Ducklett, Rufflet, and Vivillon and is slightly behind Fletchinder.
    -Speed - Incredible (non-Trick Room) - Base 125 Speed puts you tied in 11th Place with Weavile and Darkrai before Priority. As for Flying Types, only Ninjask, Aerodactyl, Crobat, Sky-Shaymin, and Talonflame can out-fly you.

    Abilities:
    -Guts - Why are you still reading about Abilities? This is pretty much all you need.
    -Scrappy (Hidden, Available [Horde]) - Ghost-Type busting with Normal-Type Moves is nice, but why don't you just use one of your Coverage Moves for that?

    Overall, Talonflame, Pidgeot, Staraptor, and the rest of the early-game birds are like the A-Team of Flying Types. Swellow's Guts and high Speed makes it a muscled speedster with low stamina, akin to a Hemi with a small gas tank. Like its cousin Reckless Staraptor, Guts Swellow is often on borrowed time, except by Burns or Poisoning instead of Recoil. The higher Speed makes it able to Roost sooner, but Staraptor doesn't have to worry about getting chipped again by a Status effect afterwards. Like Talonflame, Swellow has high Speed to get the job done, but Guts gives Swellow an advantage in Power where Gale Wings gives Talonflame a Priority advantage.

    The verdict: Prepare for pain if you can't outrun Swellow or tank a Physical hit. Steel and Rock Types are the best bet for taking it down, but beware of Steel Wing all the same if you are of the Rock Type.
     
  8. PMG

    PMG Pokemon Master Gaz

    would Facade not be better then return?

    BP 70 (doubles when affected by Burn, Poison or Paralysis to 140)

    and that's before factoring in STAB


    Swellow hasn't really changed much since last Gen so the classics are always good

    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    Ability: Guts
    Item: Flame Orb/Toxic Orb/Choice Band (good if your using Guts Swellow as a Status Absorber)
    EV: 4 HP, 252 ATK, 252 SPD

    Brave Bird
    Facade
    U-Turn/Steel Wing
    Protect/Roost/Quick Attack (who doesn't love Priority)
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
  9. WhyBuffet

    WhyBuffet Pokémon Breeder

    The best set for Swellow is still the classic Flame Orb/Toxic Orb set:

    Jolly @ Toxic Orb / Flame Orb

    252 Atk / 252 Speed / 4 Def

    U-Turn
    Brave Bird
    Facade
    Quick Attack/Protect

    U-Turn is for scouting, and because of Swellow's insanely high Speed, it will most likely get out of dodge before being hit (which is good for Swellow, considering its laughably weak defenses).
    Brave Bird and Facade are for STAB, and Facade gets the added bonus of benefiting from whatever status orb you slap out Swellow. Couple that with a Guts boost, and Swellow will be doing a bit of damage.
    The last slot is a toss up. Quick Attack is for priority, and if you're up against a weakened Talonflame, your priority Quick Attack is going first. Protect is to scout and to activate your status orb.

    252 Speed EV's and a Jolly nature lets Swellow outspeed a lot of stuff (like Greninja, Alakazam, Dugtrio, Noivern, to name a few).
    The choice between Toxic Orb and Flame Orb is a matter of preference. Toxic Orb is for more of a hit-and-run Swellow, whereas Flame Orb is if you're planning on staying in for the long haul. I forget the math but I think Toxic Orb does less damage than Flame Orb for 2 or 3 consecutive turns, then after those turns Flame Orb does less. All I know is I use Flame Orb, because that's what I saw Faulkner was using in HGSS, so who am I to argue with a Gym Leader?

    -------------

    Now, I know that the POTW is chosen by a random number generator. But at the same time, is it not possible to get a little variety? I look forward to the POTW every Sunday, because I'm genuinely interested in the sets and opinions others have to offer on other Pokémon. But then it's just depressing when all I see is "Snorlax hasn't changed a bit" or "Weezing is relatively the same as it's always been." I mean, even Swellow hasn't changed much since Gen IV.

    Is it not possible to be selective about the Pokémon that get selected by the RNG? Say, for example, the RNG spits out Slowbro. Slowbro has more or less stayed the same since Gen V, so is it really necessary to basically re-write the POTW entry we already have for it for Gen V? We've had POTW's on Greninja and Talonflame, Pokémon that are brand new and that I LOVE hearing other's opinions on. THOSE are the POTW's that I'm interested in at this point, not so much Swellow (I mean, I love Swellow to death but it hasn't really changed much, and a lot of people already know what it does).

    So, isn't it possible to pick and choose the POTW that get done? Like just keep picking from the RNG until you get either a Kalos Pokémon or even a Pokémon that's gotten a complete overhaul, like Togekiss or Azumarill. (I know Azumarill's already been picked by the RNG, and you know what? That POTW was GREAT.)

    Anyway, that's just my opinion. Maybe it's unfeasible to do things that way, but I would enjoy the POTW more if newer or buffed up older Pokémon were featured more.
     
  10. Razor Shiftry

    Razor Shiftry Cynthia = Porn Star

    Swellow basically has one defining set:

    Swellow @ Toxic Orb
    Ability: Guts
    Nature: Jolly / Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 Def

    - Facade
    - Brave Bird
    - U-Turn
    - Protect / Quick Attack

    So the run down of the set;
    ~ Why Toxic Orb over Flame? simple, toxic orb inflicts less damage than flame orb for the first 2 turns, on the 3rd turn they're equal. With Swellows amazing bulk (note sarcasm) chances are you're not going to be hanging around for more than 3 turns.
    ~ Status orb + Guts provide essentially a choice band boost without the attack locking.
    ~ Jolly over Adamant - why? because max speed Adamant will not outspeed base 110s running max speed, such as Froslass and Gengar. Also, Greninjas are everywhere so its nice to outspeed them as well.
    ~ EVs, hit as hard and as fast as possible. 4 EVs in Def because then if gives Swellow's HP an odd number allowing it to switch into SR 5 times as opposed to 4. If you manage to do that.
    ~ Moveset: Facade turns into very hard hitting base 140 STAB move after being poisoned. Perfect. Brave Bird for alternate STAB that's hard hitting but only use when you have to since recoil is rather painful. U-turn when you hit a steel or rock wall. Or any Rock or Steel type to be honest. Protect is there just in case you couldn't get a team mate to slow u-turn/volt-switch/baton pass Swellow in for a safe switch. Quick Attack for late game priority if you like that sort of thing.

    Thoughts? Poor Swellow. The Fastest "bird" until Talon Flame came along and just ramped everything up to 11. In the lower tiers, can still be used, although Flying in general is a great type to use in conjuction with other flying types to batter through the opponent (Although Staraptor is perferred since he can actually break through Steels and Rocks with Close Combat).

    So yeah, how to stop Swellow? Literally any Steel or Rock type. Scarfed Electric types can switch in on resisted Bravebirds and zap the bird. Ice Shard Priority works too. Chances are, Swellow ain't going to be around long anyways due to having to be poisoned or burned to work.

    Can I just say, hilarious how Swellow gets the best Special normal-typed move in the game with STAB to boot (Boom burst) and yet has such utterly horrific special attack? What is up with that? Holiofisk should have gotten boomburst! Along with Meloetta, Pyroar, Wigglytuff. Hell, I would love to see Porygon-Z with Boomburst for utter power overload trolling.
     
  11. SmeargleRocks

    SmeargleRocks Reputable Trader

    252 Atk, 252 Speed, 4 Def
    Focus Sash / Life Orb
    Scrappy
    Brave Bird
    Facade / Double Edge
    Pursuit
    Quick Attack / U-Turn


    252 Atk, 252 speed, 4 Def
    Guts
    Life Orb
    Facade
    Brave Bird
    Pursuit
    U-Turn

    Use the second set only if you need a status absorber, burned / toxic facade boosted with life orb should hurt something a bit
     
  12. pika250

    pika250 Well-Known Member

    Pre-evolution corner: Taillow. Known to use the FEAR strategy (with the bonus of Scrappy, allowing it to hit ghosts), so

    Taillow Lv1 @ Focus Sash
    Scrappy
    EVs and nature don't matter
    Endeavor
    Quick Attack
    Filler 1
    Filler 2

    Or in gen VI little cup, Taillow runs the same sets as Swellow, but tailored for LC.
     
  13. Dragonair7

    Dragonair7 Feelin' the heat?

    Ah...Swellow. I always like this bird, but then the likes of Staraptor came around and replaced it.

    Swellow has amazing speed, pathetic defenses, and a sub par attack, until you factor in Guts. Guts ups the bird attack by 1.5, with status. Unfortunately, Swellow wasn't going to be around long with those defenses, and Poison/Burn chipping away at its HP isn't helping.

    Swellow @ Toxic Orb
    Adamant Nature
    252 Att/ 252 Speed/ 4 Def
    U-turn
    Façade
    Brave Bird
    Quick Attack/Protect

    With all the recoil form this set, don't expect to be hanging around too long. This bird needs to hit hard and fast, and if it gets hit first (hopefully with that insane speed it won't) you can say bye-bye birdy.

    Swellow @ Focus Sash
    Brave Nature
    252 HP/252 Att/ 4 Def
    Endeavour
    Quick Attack
    Protect
    U-Turn

    Idk when anyone would ever not use the first set, but this is an option, I suppose. The point would be to get hit first, then use endeavor to bring your opponent down to 1 HP, then use quick attack. Very gimmicky and relies a lot on luck. If you manage to get down to low HP, it will work the same. I don't know why anyone would use this, but it is an option.
     
  14. strawbs

    strawbs Member

    a point on previous potw heliokisk is usless in doubles he can heal with surf and can't set up weather effects himself so a partner that can set up weather will help it loads
     
  15. Nulava

    Nulava Banned

    Swellow @ Toxic Orb
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Guts
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
    ~Brave Bird
    ~Facade
    ~Quick Attack
    ~U-Turn
     
  16. VerntheNoivern

    VerntheNoivern ALOHAAAAAAAAAAAA!

    swellow... not my favourite bird. but i guess i generally use it almost as a sacrificial pokemon in my game. This set just depends too much on chance, but is pretty good when it works:

    Endure (for taking hits)
    Endeavor (this lowers the opponents health to 1)
    Quick attack (for killing the 1 health guy)
    U turn (for switching out)

    and holding focus sash for holding on long enough to use quick attack.

    i like this because it actually turns swellow's low def and sp. def int it's advantage.

    never tried it in competitive but it works ok in game and relies too much on chance. don't use it. but it is an option...
     
  17. YagamiNoir4896

    YagamiNoir4896 Well-Known Member

    Swellow is...bad. It has potential, but it's still bad. 125 Speed is godlike rare, but that's not something a Scarf can't fix, especially since most Swellows, if any, never run Choice Scarf. 85 Attack is actually better than Talonflame and it has Guts, but Talonflame can run bulk + Adamant Nature and a priority Brave Bird generally outclasses it. It's movepool is horrible too, ranging from it's Dual STAB, U-Turn, Steel Wing, and Pursuit. It's got some support options, but Swellow is just to frail to make use of them. Swellow can be terrifying in lower tiers, but nobody is really going to see this guy in standard anytime soon.

    Teenage Thunderbolt
    Swellow @ Choice Scarf
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Guts
    EVS: 252 Attack/4 Defense/252 Speed

    Brave Bird
    Facade/Return
    U-Turn
    Pursuit/Steel Wing/Giga Impact

    Say that I'm contradicting myself by saying nobody run Choice Scarf and recommending Scarf myself. The thing is Choice Scarf Swellow reaches a godlike 574 Speed, which trolls things like +2 Dragonite, Scolipede, and anything that is slower and has a Scarf. People will go like "hey it's a Swellow no Scarf he can't outspeed me" for you to outspeed and do severe damage if not kill, with your opponents replying with quizzical "wot"s and the like. Brave Bird is your main STAB, the recoil hurts but Swellow can't live any hits anyway so why not. The choice between Facade and Return depends on your choice of possible destructive power or consistent STAB. U-Turn allows you to get out of there and the like. Pursuit traps things like non-Scarf Alakazam that won't appreciate a hit. Steel Wing dents rocks. Giga Impact may sound dumb, but it can work on Swellow because as previously mentioned Swellow cannot live a hit so you get to pull off a strong hit before you die.

    Chicken-hearted
    Swellow @ Focus Sash
    Nature: Jolly
    Ability: Scrappy
    EVs: 252 Attack/4 Def/252 Speed. Also run 0 IVs in all Defenses.

    Tailwind
    Sunny Day/Rain Dance
    Endavour
    Quick Attack/Return/Giga Impact

    Suicide lead set, gimmicky but ok why not. Tailwind buffs your Speed which is always good. Sunny Day and Rain Dance are really the only options for this lead as Defog is useless early game. After the sash Endavour something. Quick Attack to revenge kill a possible switch in, Return for consistent STAB, Giga Impact for one-time strong hit.
     
  18. Golden Warrior

    Golden Warrior Pokemon Professor

    Oooh, Swellow, my favorite Flying type aside from Yveltal and Skarmory. Swellow has sadly become out-classed quickly by both Gen 4 and 6 "generic birds" and it can't really find a way back up to the top. Now, since most of the sets here are already great, I'll just quote the best ones and then give some other basic overviews...

    First off, the two things that make these sets differ is the Steel Wing and Roost. Roost, although rather pointless since Swellow will never have the chance to heal with that low bulk of its, can be useful under VERY specific situations, like when you know someone will switch out. Steel Wing on the other hand, could have a use in this new Metagame filled to the brim with little pixie-based creatures (fairy types if you didn't get that) as it can take most of them out easily with Swellow's Guts added attack.

    Now then, onto my own overview:

    Pros:
    - Hits hard, moves fast, OHKO's a ton of things very easily.
    - Moveset can prioritize on the Guts ability, with things like Facade and... Well... Facade.

    Cons:
    - Can barely touch anything that it can't hit with a neutral or super-effective hit.
    - Normal-Flying type makes it susceptible to most moves, neutral or not.
    - Bulk does not exist, it will die sooner or later, with or without a status condition.

    Abilities: You have no reason not to run Guts, seriously, none at all. Scrappy is nice, but since you are allowed to have more than Normal type moves, there's no real reason to touch it.

    Countering Swellow: Click Steel or Rock type. Click super-effective move, watch the bird fall to its death. Honestly, unless you bring a Geodude into a serious battle, there's no way Swellow can touch a Steel or Rock type. (Minus by the aforementioned Steel Wing, but that usually won't make much of a difference.) Swellow is also frail enough that any Pokémon that can withstand a neutral hit from it can take it out in return. The only choice the poor Swellow will have is to switch out or die.

    Checking Swellow: Well, I suppose if the counters are all KO'd by now, you'll need a way to check Swellow. Get a VERY bulky Pokémon. Even Pokémon like Blissey take over half damage from this thing when its burnt or poisoned, so a very good plan would be something that can take more than two hits and maybe stall out with Protect and the likes. First off, no Pokémon that isn't Steel or Rock can switch in safely. Period. (well ok, maybe Ghost types.) If you switch anything bulky into a Facade, it's done for unless it can either kill with priority or Protect stall the Swellow to death. While Pokémon like Steelix and Aggron can simply shrug Swellow's moves off, but even Pokémon like Blissey and Deoxys - Defense will not take two hits without getting KO'd. So really, the only ways to really check a Swellow is with either a Rock or Steel type, or a Pokémon that can stall with Protect and make Swellow get KO'd by its Burn or Poisoned status.

    Overall:
    Swellow is a nice Pokémon with a sweet design, but I don't see it getting used much due to those horrid defenses and low lifespan. However, it still harbors potential to take out a full team, assuming there are no Steel or Rock types, that is. And really, that's all there is too it. Hit as hard as you can, while you can, and hope for the best.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2014
  19. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Doubles Review: While Swellow does appreciate the partner to draw some fire in doubles, and that partner would enjoy being able to fire earthquake with impunity, Swellow is not suited to doubles. That fragility means focus fire kills Swellow faster than you can say What? And a weakness to Rock Slide, Discharge and Blizzard doesn't help things either.

    On a side note, Swellow really hates paralysis, but usually avoids it with its status orb. But if you can catch it with a paralysis on the switch, you have deprived Swellow of its greatest asset. Just take it down before it uses its second greatest asset.
     
  20. _Sylveon_

    _Sylveon_ Indigo Champion

    I'll do the Pre-Evo corner, as I play a lot of LC, but, I can't type too much right now, but I do recommend running Choice Specs Boomburst > Guts Facade, it is as powerful as Guts Facade, without the nasty side effect of Poison/Burn, honestly, it is better.
     
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