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Community POTW #019

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Apr 2, 2017.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Espeon is amazing, I've been using one in the battle tree to quite some success. Good Speed, great Sp.Atk, a decent enough movepool, and Magic Bounce all join together to turn Espeon into a great sweeper and Baton Passer.

    Espeon @ Psychium Z
    Timid Nature
    Ability: Magic Bounce
    252 Sp.Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    -Psychic / Psyshock / Stored Power
    -Dazzling Gleam / Shadow Ball
    -Calm Mind
    -Baton Pass

    This is the set I've been running in the Battle Tree with good results when paired up with Baton Pass Vaporeon to pass it Acid Armor (and Espeon can pass Calm Mind back to Vaporeon). Magic Bounce and decent Sp.Def means it can set up on a lot of walls like Toxapex, Blissey, Porygon2, Slowbro, and Bronzong. Skarmory is a bit more troublesome, it hits pretty hard with Brave Bird or Night Slash, although switching in on its Whirlwind is fun as Whirlwind gets bounced back to force Skarmory out. When things get dire you can either go for a strong Shattered Psyche to go for a KO or Baton Pass out of there.

    With Psyshock you can play mind games with your opponent, as Shattered Psyche still hits on the Special Defence stat even when using Psyshock as the base move. Stored Power on the other hand is very strong when used together with Baton Pass Vaporeon, hitting ridiculously hard after setting up both Espeon and Vaporeon. After two Acid Armors being passed, or a single Acid Armor and a single Calm Mind, it's already stronger than Psychic, and it's associated Z-move has the same power as Z-Psyshock.

    Dazzling Gleam is preferred as coverage against Dark types like Hydreigon, while Shadow Ball is an alternative to cover Ghost and Psychic types and have something that hits Steel types neutrally.

    As for held items, I like the Psychium Z as a nuking option in 3v3, rarely does any foe have multiple pokémon that require a power boost when I can set up Calm Mind, but a Life Orb is a good alternative.
    Edit: One item I've also experimented with on this Espeon is Salac Berry. When it does activate it's quite good and another boost it can pass, but Espeon has a lot of trouble getting into that last 25% of its health reliably and the Salac Berry doesn't do anything if you don't. And when it does go into that low health, Espeon becomes very vulnerable to priority moves. I've found Psychium Z to be more reliable as you can count on it regardless of your health.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
  3. Creyk

    Creyk Well-Known Member

    The best eevee evolution
  4. BlackKyurem3DS

    BlackKyurem3DS Active Member

    Noice. One of my favorite Eeveelutions.
    Synchronize: If the Pokemon is hit with Paralysis, Poison, or Burn; then the opponent is also hit with said status condition (Unless opponents' type prevents that). Really only useful for its' side effect of causing wild pokemon to have a 50% chance to have the same nature as the user. Other than that, not useful in actual battling.
    Hidden Ability:
    Magic Bouce: Reflects back all non-damaging moves at the opponent. Perfect for stopping stealth rocks, taunt, etc. from screwing you over. Very handy ability to have on Espeon.
  5. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    One thing of note is that Magic Bounce doesn't reflect everything. I'm not quite sure yet what makes it not work on certain kinds of moves, but it doesn't bounce back Teeter Dance.
  6. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    Magic Bounce works on status moves that target the pokemon with magic bounce and long as the pokemon with magic bounce would be effected by the move. Here are some specific examples. Some of these I found out using mega sableye in VGC, and others I just tested on showdown.
    • In a double battle moves that target both opponents will effect the pokemon without magic bounce, and be bounced back on the move's user. For example if a Butterfree uses string shot on an espeon and an arcanine, the arcanine will have its speed lowered as normal (unless it uses protect or something), but the Espeon will bounce back the string shot and the butterfree's speed will be lowered while the Espeon's does not.
    • For some reason Memento doesn't get bounced, so if a murkrow uses memento on espeon, espeon's stats will be lowered.
    • Secondary effects of attacking moves aren't bounced. Fake out will flinch a magic bounce espeon and snarl will lower its special attack.
    • Magic Bounced moves can miss, and will use the Espeon's accuracy. For example if a vivillon uses sleep powder on an espeon, it will not get the accuracy boost from compound eyes. But the move will definitely be bounced without having to do the accuracy check.
    • Pokemon with Mold Breaker, Teravolt and Turboblaze will not have their moves bounced. If a Zekrom uses thunder wave on an Espeon and it doesn't miss, the espeon will be paralysed.
    • If an Espeon uses dig, and is underground while the opponent tries to hit it with a status move, magic bounce will not activate.
    • I actually just tested this last part out on showdown. But if a pokemon with no guard hits a magic bounce user that is underground after dig or fly, move hits and is bounced.
    • If a pokemon with magic bounce targets another pokemon with magic bounce, it will be bounced exactly twice. So it hits the moves original target.

    How No Guard and Dig work with magic bounce

    How Magic Bounce works with other magic bounce users
  7. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    But Showdown is not official, I'm not sure if it simulates all those effects correctly (the showdown damage calculator for instance doesn't apply Surge Surfer's speed boost to Electro Ball damage). Besides, none of those rules explain why Teeter Dance is not bounced back by Magic Bounce. I know for sure that Espeon can get confused by Teeter Dance, that's directly from experiencing it in the game. And by googling it appears that Curse and Nightmare are also not bounced back, although I haven't tested that.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
  8. Wakerra

    Wakerra Pokemon Breeder

    Ah, I know this one very well! While unfortunately it is easily outclassed in most battle scenarios, I've found a good defense/counter attack technique in double or rotation battles as follow:


    Ability: Magic Bounce
    Item: Light Clay
    Nature: Timid
    EVs: 252 Speed, 252 Defense, 6 Sp Att
    -Calm Mind
    -Light Screen

    Espeon has a great advantage in the Eeveelution line in that it can use both Reflect and Light Screen. Being the second fastest Eeveelution makes it prime to set out those screens early in battle, Timid nature and EVs in speed help make sure it (mostly) strikes first. Magic Bounce also helps deflect those nasty Thunder Wavers, keeping Espeon's speed in tact. Light Clay ensures the duration of the screens, and putting the EVs in Defense also help make sure Espeon can take a hit so it can get both screens up and running before it is taken out. If Espeon happens to survive the two turns it would need to get the screens up, Calm Mind helps boost the Sp Att stat, where EVs are lacking. With boosted Sp Att stats, Psyschock/Psychic can deal some major damage, and KO most low defensive pokemon.

    If this Espeon technique is used in rotation battle, having a Wish user can come in handy while building the Calm Mind up, and can prolong the time that Espeon is in battle.
  9. Missingno. Master

    Missingno. Master Poison-type Trainer

    Psyched Up For Victory
    Espeon@Life Orb
    Timid nature
    Magic Bounce
    252 Sp. Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Dazzling Gleam
    ~Psyshock/Psychic/Wish/Heal Bell

    Espeon is fairly straightforward. Psychic is your STAB move of choice, maybe replace with Psyshock if you don't want special walls to wall you completely. Shadow Ball and Dazzling Gleam together make for almost completely unresisted coverage (missing only Pyroar, which the Psychic moves cover pretty well), so those are what you'll want. The last slot is pretty much your call. You can go for the STAB move you didn't opt for in the first slot, cover all bases there. You could go for Wish or Heal Bell, too, so Espeon can be of some use to the team as a whole.

    Item powers up Espeon. Ability is the best thing ever.

    Other options:
    *Espeon gets Calm Mind. What it doesn't really get is a good opportunity to set up using it.
    *Hidden Power is a thing, I suppose, but Espeon's got unresisted coverage in just three moves as it is.
    *Espeon also gets Signal Beam if that appeals to you.

    *Synchronize: When Espeon is burned, paralyzed, or poisoned, it inflicts the opponent with the same status condition. A fairly useful Ability in its own right, but let's be honest, if you're using Espeon, you want to go for...
    *Magic Bounce: Espeon's Hidden Ability. Espeon basically has the effects of Magic Coat always turned on for it- any status moves directed at it get bounced back at the attacker. This is unbelievably good for Espeon, effectively making it immune to anything that isn't an outright attacking move. Can't be hit by Toxic or Leech Seed. Can't be hit by Spore. No Taunt can stop its Wish or Heal Bell. The list of benefits goes on and on. Just... use this on your Espeon.

    Espeon pairs well with lots of stuff. Magic Bounce means you have a very safe switch-in for all sorts of status moves, so you can fit it into most any team without much trouble. Its access to Wish and Heal Bell also make it a good partner for Pokémon that could use such support.

    If you're not running Psyshock, stuff like Chansey and Blissey will be a nightmare. You don't want to be chipping away at Chansey's health while it pummels you repeatedly with Seismic Toss.

    Espeon may not be my favorite Eeveelution, but it's still a very cool one.

    Pre-Evolution Corner:

    Extreme Evoboost Exterminates Enemies Efficiently
    Eevee@Eevium Z
    Jolly nature
    252 HP/252 Speed/4 Attack
    ~Last Resort
    ~Baton Pass
    ~Double-Edge/Quick Attack/Bite
    ~Double-Edge/Quick Attack/Bite

    Eevee has come so far. Once a bottom-of-the-barrel NFE that basically had to evolve in order to be any good, to one of the coolest Baton Passers of our time. Start things off with that sexy Extreme Evoboost for the insane stat boosts, Baton Pass them to the sweeper of your choice, and unleash the chaos. The last two slots are just in case you're forced to bring Eevee back out at a later point in the battle, or else if Eevee gets Taunted before being able to get off the Baton Pass- Extreme Evoboost is not subject to Taunt, but Baton Pass is. Double-Edge is good STAB, Quick Attack is a nice priority move, and Bite handles Ghosts. Mix and match as you see fit.

    Item makes the Z-Move possible. Ability is your call- Anticipation can clue you in to when you might want to switch out and hold off on Extreme Evoboost, Adaptability can help if Eevee is forced to fight.

    Other options:
    *...Well, you could run Return over Double-Edge if the recoil scares you, I guess?

    *Run Away: ...next.
    *Adaptability: Eevee's STAB multiplier goes from x1.5 to x2. This could be useful if Eevee is ever forced to fight. I warn you, it doesn't turn Eevee into this fearsome sweeper, but if it means the difference between leaving enemies with a sliver of health or KOing them, just saying, something to consider. Ideally you wouldn't need to use this Ability at all, but setbacks are always a possibility, and should be planned for accordingly.
    *Anticipation: Eevee's Hidden Ability. Eevee shudders upon entering the battle if the opponent is packing a super effective move or a OHKO move like Fissure. Could see use if you bring in Eevee against something that doesn't normally pack Fighting moves, only to see that yes, they do in fact have one, and that maybe you should hold off on the Extreme Evoboost shenanigans for the time being. Like with Adaptability, it's pretty situational, but one thing we can all agree on- it's better than Run Away.

    You want my personal opinion? Alolan Ninetales and Krookodile. Start with Ninetales for the Aurora Veil support (mine packs Light Clay for maximum Aurora Veilage), bring in Eevee when possible, Extreme Evoboost under cover of the Aurora Veil, Baton Pass to Krookodile, and destroy worlds with Power Trip. Bonus points if the Krookodile has Moxie and therefore gains an additional Attack boost with each KO. This is a strategy I myself personally use, and holy crap, it gets results. But don't take my word for it- let your Vs. Recorder back me up on this!









    Brick Break. Not only super effective against Eevee, but it also doesn't give a Raticate's rear end about Aurora Veil. Barring that, something packing STAB Close Combat might OHKO Eevee in spite of the Aurora Veil. Taunt is also a pretty painful thorn in Eevee's side, but as I know from experience, it does not guarantee that you shut it down, so stay alert.

    Eevee's pretty cute, and I'm glad they gave it such a nice advantage that its numerous evolutions cannot share- something to set it apart from the Eeveelutions.

    Prediction for next week:
  10. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    In theory teeter dance should be effected by magic guard. But since its the only status move that targets the allied mon and the opponents in other words a move that affects both sides of the field. Maybe they treated it like moves that effect the entire field, like electric terrain or perish song. Maybe it isn't bounced because it already affects both fields.

    Anyway, since this is the first Eeveelution of this generation to get a POTW, how about some little cup talk for Eevee? Even though they banned Extreeme Evoboost because nobody is stupid enough to think its balanced in LC.

    Unforunately Eevee doesn't get many boosting moves, besides the extremely broken banned one (not even agility, all it can pass is work up, curse or substitute) plus it can't use Z-Celebrate in LC because it was level 10 in the celebrate event... Its a little slow to be a baton passer too.

    Eevee could also be used offensively, but even with adaptability its damage output is still a problem, its nowhere near as powerful as Bunnely or as fast as Aipom and Doduo., and Mincinno guts tailow beats in/ Eevee's movepool isn't that diverse either. Its only physical moves are dig, bite and iron tail. Its basically like Flareon before it got flare blitz, not that powerful and not that good a baton passer. But if you're careful, eevee can baton pass a substitute to another pokemon, or use wish let its health go to something more useful.

    You shouldn't eeven use this
    Eevee @ Eviolite
    Ability: Adaptability
    Level: 5
    EVs: 116 HP / 236 SpD / 156 Spe
    Careful Nature
    - Wish/Yawn/Substitute
    - Wish/Yawn/Substitute
    - Baton Pass
    - Return

    Some calcs to explain why Eevee isn't your best choice offensively.

    252+ Atk Adaptability Eevee Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndour: 26-32 (136.8 - 168.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Huge Power Bunnelby Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndour: 33-40 (157.1 - 190.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Doduo Return vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndour: 24-28 (114.2 - 133.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    252+ Atk Minccino Tail Slap (5 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Houndour: 30-35 (142.8 - 166.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Also I'm pretty sure Eevee also has the least diverse physically offensive movepool on any normal type, including Azurill and Happiny. Its only useful physical moves that aren't normal-type are iron tail and maybe bite. Igglybuff's probably mock it because Iggly gets wild charge and eevee doesn't. Beldum is a more versatile attacker.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
  11. ampfire101

    ampfire101 Well-Known Member

    I've seen Espeon used on Extreme Evoboost teams in VGC, works like Krookodile except uses Stored Power instead of Power Trip. Also the access to Magic Bounce is undeniably good. Used with Protect, Stored Power, Dazzling Gleam, and a filler option.
  12. chess-z

    chess-z flora femme

    Extreme Evoboost Eevee should always have Protect slashed. In VGC Protect is one of the best moves, and it's going to be better than Bite or Quick Attack and definitely Double Edge in most situtations. Eevee should set up Evoboost and then high tail it out of there.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2017
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