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Community POTW #022

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Mar 23, 2014.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Time for the next Pokémon of the Week, and this time we have an absolute classic


    It's the original Ground-type Pokémon, Marowak. Marowak is capable of a lot, especially in a Trick Room.


    Go nuts
  2. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Marowak, Cubone’s mother makes an appearance on the battling scene… Take that, Team Rocket

    At first glance, Marowak isn’t very impressive. average ATK, and SDEF, fantastic DEF, but subpar HP and poor SPD. Not the makings of a sweeper or a decent tank. That’s where Marowak’s signature hold item comes in place. Thick Club, is an itemized version of Huge Power, doubling Marowak’s (and Cubone’s) ATK. Add Swords Dance and STAB Earthquake to the mix and Marowak could shatter the world with its obscenely powerful attacks.

    Bad to the Bone
    Marowak (Rock Head/Battle Armor)
    Item: Thick Club
    Swords Dance
    Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Thunder Punch
    Double Edge/Fire Punch/Thunder Punch/Knock Off
    EVs: 252 HP/252 ATK/4 SDEF
    Brave (+ATK, -SPD)

    Simple premise, dance then sweep. Use Rock Head only with Double Edge. Battle Armor works better otherwise, because you are not getting mileage out of Rock Head when you have no recoil moves. This set works best when counters are out of the way, or in a Trick Room Environment.

    How to Survive: As noted before Marowak’s HP is below average and its SDEF is merely average, meaning it is relatively easy to fell with special Water, Grass and Ice attacks. Secondly, it is very slow outside of Trick Room, meaning it can be felled before it can attack. Even in Trick Room, it can still be out slowed, allowing stuff such as Ferrothorn and Slowbro to shut it down. In terms of status, Marowak is very dependent on its ATK, so burning it takes the edge off of its attacks. Using Knock Off or Trick deprives Marowak of its weapon and makes it a LOT less threatening.
  3. Leafsword

    Leafsword New Member

    Advantages at a glance
    - 110 defense is pretty nice, and 80 Special Defense is enough.
    - 80 attack isn't great, but it's more than enough for Belly Drum or Sword's Dance - and with the Thick Club, that goes up to ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY.
    - OH MY WHAT A FANTASTIC MOVEPOOL! All the punches, Iron Tail, Earthquake, Belly Drum, Outrage, Knock Off, Bonemerang, Double-Edge...
    - Rock Head synergizes well with a Belly Drum set, which - lets face it - isn't going to last long normally, so you don't need recoil.
    - Good for a trick room set.
    - Bonemerang, which is effectively a 100 attack substitute breaker. Always good to have.
    - Toxic and Stealth Rock are nice.
    - Thick Club. Just... Thick Club.

    Disadvantages at a glance.

    - It's slow, but it's not SUPER slow. In trick room or otherwise, Marowak's speed isn't extreme enough to guarantee her effectiveness and stop other super-slow trickroomers like Reuniclus doing their business.
    - Battle Armour is weak and Lightning Rod is outright useless. Rock Head isn't always going to work either.
    - You better hope you get a good switch-in. At 60 HP, she's not exactly rock-hard and can crumple under heavy hitters.
    - Surpisingly high number of special attacks which will be COMPLETELY useless at 50 SP Attack.
    - 60 defense sends her bulk down the drain, which is a shame.
    - Her bulk is balanced the wrong way. Everyone who goes against her - Ice, Grass, Water - is far more likely to be packing special than physical.
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  4. Ironthunder

    Ironthunder The Uncultured One

    The key thing here is 110 base Def, which can class it as a wall. It will take a SE hit to deal serious damage to Marowak on that stat. This however has problems due to 60 base HP, which is fairly bad, and the fact that its weaknesses are almost entirely Special-based. The Atk of 80 is capable of dealing some hurt. 80 SpDef is fairly useful, and cold be useful for taking hits. The Spd stat is 45, which is identical to the SpAtk, which is an issue, unless in Trick Room.

    The lack of SpAtk hits hard here. Marowak has access to Fire Blast, Focus Blast, Blizzard and Earth Power from BW2. Physically, the movepool is limited. It gets Earthquake, Bone Rush, Iron Head, Skull Bash, Rock Slide, Brick Break and Stone Edge. So, 4 types that can be SE. Not great for coverage. If you have one imported from BW2, then Knock Off, Fire Punch, Thunder Punch, Outrage and Focus Punch are options, adding 4 types to that total. Setup? It gets Stealth Rock, but is too slow to set one up.

    Lightning Rod: No. The SpAtk is too low, and it rarely faces Electric moves.
    Battle Armor: No Crits? Useful, but rare. Helps stop unlucky shots though.
    Rock Head: Useful, if you run Double Edge. Otherwise, no.

    Bare Bones
    Marowak@Life Orb/Thick Club
    Battle Armor
    252 Atk, 124 SpDef, 128 HP
    -Iron Head/Tail
    -Stone Edge
    -Rock Slide
    -Fire Punch/Thunder Punch/Brick Break/Skull Bash/Knock Off
    Straight up coverage/STAB set, really. No setup, it can't run that sort of set.

    Marowak@Thick Club
    Battle Armor
    252 Atk, 252 HP, 4 SpDef
    -Bone Rush
    -Fire Punch
    -Thunder Punch
    -Brick Break/Focus Punch
    This is an odd set. Three coverage moves, and Bone Rush can theoretically strike for 125 base power plus STAB, equalling 30 base per hit, and 150 base power for a five-strike, equalling Giga Impact.

    No. Surf and Blizzard destroy it, and its only moves which are preferable in doubles are Earthquake and Rock Slide. Predictable, and walled.

    Countering Marowak
    Special-based SE attacks send the skull to the graveyard. Surf, Energy Ball and Ice Beam can decimate its HP. Physical walls also work fairly well, but not Steel or Rock types, due to STAB Earthquake. Quagsire can eat anything Marowak throws at it, and OHKOs it in return with Waterfall or Aqua Tail.
  5. Kraleck

    Kraleck Well-Known Member

    Marowak. The Pokémon I came to love for its signature Moves. Still a remarkable opponent to be sure.

    -HP - Below Average - Base 60 is a rocky start, but not bad.
    -Attack - Average - Base 80. The only reason I'm still typing here is because of its signature Hold Item doubling that Attack to a potential 568 (somewhere between Base 200 and Base 230, basically Choice Band without the locked-into-one-Move).
    -Defense - Great - Base 110 discourages many middling-Attack Pokémon for a time.
    -Sp.Atk - Bad - Base 50 can't do much of anything, even with Lightningrod Ability.
    -Sp.Def - Average - Base 80.
    -Speed - Good (Trick Room) - Base 45 is decent for Trick Room teams, but not much else.

    -Rock Head - Being Immune to Recoil Damage is rather nice with Double-Edge. I'm still surprised Marowak never got Head Smash, though.
    -Lightningrod - Draws Electric Moves towards it in Multi and buffs Sp.Atk by 1 stage when hit by Electric Moves (which also makes you Immune to Electric if you aren't already Immune). Terrible for Marowak, even in Multi.
    -Battle Armor (Hidden, Available [Poké Transfer, Friend Safari]) - Being Immune to Critical Hits is always fun, but why waste it on something that isn't all that tank-y?

    Overall, Marowak is a beast on Attack. Combined with STAB Bonemerang/Earthquake, Rock Head Double-Edge, and Smack Down/Rock Slide/Stone Edge, you've got something with wide coverage before the 4th Moveslot. As for that slot, Fire Punch, Outrage, Iron Head, Low Kick, Double Kick, Power-Up Punch, Thunderpunch, and Aerial Ace round the offense off quite nicely.

    If you have a Flying Type Opponent that is Neutral to Rock (i.e. Skarmory) or Weak to Ground during Roost (i.e. Emolga), Smack Down is an interesting option for a Ground-Type-follow-up combo. Perhaps not the best Pokémon chosen for examples, but the logic is pretty sound. Plus, it's a lot more accurate than Rock Slide or Stone Edge. As for Bonemerang and Double Kick, the capacity to shatter-n-smack a Substitute with impunity is an Arceus-send for anyone, like me, that finds Substitute to be the bane of one's existence.
  6. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    There is no reason to ever use Life Orb on Marowak. Thick Club is what makes it worth using, given it grants more power, no recoil, and the freedom to switch moves, making it outclass all other options such as Life Orb and Choice Band. Adding recoil damage at the cost of less damage output makes Life Orb a bit silly, wouldn't you say?

    You sure?

    252+ Atk Quagsire Aqua Tail vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Marowak: 224-266 (85.8 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

    Most Quagsire don't run full attack, and most Marowak don't run 0 HP. So realistically it'd look more like...

    4 Atk Quagsire Aqua Tail vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Marowak: 158-188 (48.7 - 58%) -- 97.3% chance to 2HKO


    252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 207-244 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    So Quagsire's not really a reliable counter, given it can't switch into Marowak. Quagsire tends to be better suited to dealing with things that rely on setup to deal damage, given its Unaware ability, which also affords it opportunities to switch in on an obvious setup move.

    Bone Rush is a bit too much of a gamble, given that there's only a 12.5% chance that it will outdamage Earthquake, 12.5% chance that it'll equal Earthquake in damage, and a 75% chance that it will be weaker than Earthquake. Barring an extreme stroke of luck, you'll actually be losing damage in the long run. Now, if Marowak had Skill Link, that'd be a different story, but unfortunately it doesn't, so Bone Rush remains too unreliable to be worth using. A better alternative tends to be...

    Marowak @ Thick Club
    Adamant Nature
    Rock Head/Battle Armor
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
    -Fire Punch
    -Stone Edge
    -Double Edge/Knock Off

    Bonemerang is the only ground-type Alternative you should consider over Earthquake. Although it has the same power as Earthquake, but with less accuracy, it does have a niche in destroying things that rely on Sturdy, Substitute, or Focus Sash. Fire Punch helps it break through the Scizors and Ferrothorns out there, while Stone Edge can clip a flier's wings (also forming the infamous EdgeQuake combo). Double Edge can offer some neutral coverage if you're using Rock Head, but it also has access to the buffed up Knock Off, which, in addition to Marowak's high attack, can put pressure on people when switching in, less they have their Pokemon be stripped of their item. And obviously if you don't use Double Edge, there's no reason to use Rock Head, so the underwhelming Battle Armor becomes the next best bet.

    Other options:

    A Brave Nature can be considered over Adamant if you're utilizing Marowak in a Trick Room team, in order to obviously make it as slow as possible. It also has access to things such as Thunder Punch, Outrage, Low Kick, and Iron Head, but generally its other coverage moves hit harder. Substitute is an obvious choice to protect it from burns (which it hates), and ease up on prediction, but given it has no reliable recovery (given it can't even carry Leftovers), it has to be careful with Substitute. It does have access to Stealth Rock as well, which can be good on the obvious switches, but due to its low speed and low special bulk, there tend to be better Stealth Rock setters.
  7. Meowmeow

    Meowmeow selfproclaimed guru

    Aesthetically, I love Marowak. It's pretty good competitively as well, in lower tiers. But we can't deny how awesome Marowak's design is.

    Trick Room Swords Dance
    Nature: Adamant/Whatever raises attack and lowers speed
    Ability: Battle Armor/Rock Head (if running Double-Edge)
    EVs: 252 attack and HP, 4 special defense
    @: Thick Club (Always)

    Swords Dance
    Rock Slide
    Fire Punch/Double-Edge

    No stat boost Trick Room
    Nature: Adamant/Whatever raises attack and lowers speed
    Ability: Battle Armor/Rock Head (if running Double-Edge)
    EVs: 252 attack and HP, 4 special defense
    @: Thick Club (Always)

    Stone Edge/Rock Slide
    Fire Punch/Double-Edge
    Double-Edge/Thunder Punch
  8. Missingno. Master

    Missingno. Master Poison-type Trainer

    Bad To The Bone
    Marowak@Thick Club
    Adamant/Brave nature
    Battle Armor
    252 Atk/252 HP/4 Def
    ~Stone Edge
    ~Thunder Punch
    ~Fire Punch

    Really the only set worth using on Marowak. Bonemerang is your STAB move of choice. Ultimately just as powerful as Earthquake, while trading in 10% of its accuracy for the ability to break through Substitutes and Focus Sashes. The other three moves are for coverage.

    Item is the only thing a Marowak has any business holding- doubles the Attack stat. Ability is the only one that can see any actual use with this set.

    Alright, I Got Nothing In The Way Of More Skeletal Puns
    Marowak@Ring Target
    Modest/Quiet nature
    Lightning Rod
    252 Sp. Atk/252 HP/4 Def
    ~Earth Power
    ~Ice Beam
    ~Focus Blast

    Gimmicky in the extreme, yes, but there's something to be said for the sheer surprise factor of this set, am I right? I mean, come on, who expects a special attacking Marowak? Nobody, and for good reason, but still, this is bound to take someone by surprise. Switch it in on an Electric move for the Special Attack boost, and attempt to sweep. Marowak has decent bulk, so even if it doesn't OHKO anything (which is likely), it can still have the chance to attack again. See, the trick is that the Ring Target removes Marowak's natural immunity to Electric, which allows Lightning Rod's Electric immunity to kick in. The reason this matters is because the Special Attack boost from Lightning Rod won't happen if the Pokémon is already immune to Electric moves due to type.

    Item and Ability are to ensure a Special Attack boost.

    Other options:
    *If the imperfect accuracy of Bonemerang is a turn-off to you, Marowak can also use good old-fashioned Earthquake.
    *Likewise, if Stone Edge's reputation for missing at crucial moments doesn't appeal to you, Rock Slide is always an option.
    *Double-Edge is a powerful option, and if you can squeeze it into its moveset somehow, perfect excuse to go with Rock Head.
    *If you're one of those people who believes that there's no kill like overkill, Marowak learns Swords Dance and Power-up Punch. Oh, and for the suicidally reckless, there's also Belly Drum.

    *Lightning Rod: In Double Battles and Triple Battles, any Electric moves (other than Discharge, which hits everybody) are redirected to Marowak. Since Marowak is already a Ground-type, it is already immune to Electric moves, and thus gains no Special Attack boost from Electric attacks.
    *Rock Head: When Marowak uses a move that gives recoil damage, it takes no recoil damage from that move. Life Orb damage is not considered recoil damage for this purpose. It also doesn't protect against Struggle's recoil damage. Only usable with Double-Edge, which is tricky to fit into a Marowak's moveset in any case.
    *Battle Armor: Marowak's Hidden Ability. Attacks used on Marowak will not score critical hits, even attacks that are otherwise guaranteed to score critical hits, such as Frost Breath or Storm Throw. Actually works well with Marowak's workable bulk, and is pretty much its only non-situational Ability.

    TRICK ROOM. Marowak is an unstoppable beast in Trick Room conditions. Failing that, Smashpassing is a reliable option. For the gimmicky special set, a partner that's extremely weak to Electric moves, such as Gyarados, is ideal to help draw in that crucial Electric move.

    Physical walls like Skarmory and Mega Aggron are worth watching out for- the former is immune to Bonemerang, and the latter ain't getting KO'd by physical moves from anything. Oh yeah, and powerful super effective hits in general are something to avoid. I mean, if Trick Room's worn off, you might want to get it out of the way of a Greninja's Hydro Pump, for instance.

    I like Marowak. Cool concept, cool design, awesome exclusive hold item, and cool signature moves, Bonemerang in particular.

    Prediction for next week:
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  9. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Brave is the nature you're looking for.

    Nature: Adamant/Brave.

    And yes, the bonekeeper looks awesome :)
  10. Augla

    Augla Poke Chat's Audino

    ...Lucario? This is Marowak we're talking about here. Marowak's abilities are Rock Head, Lightningrod, and HA Battle Armor...
  11. Aah, Marowak. Was I the only kid who was terrified of this thing's ghost back in Gen 1? I probably was.

    Anyway, this thing isn't half bad competitively. With the introduction of a viable Speed Boost passer in Scolipede, this thing honestly doesn't need Trick Room, though it is much appreciated. Beware of special attacks and Skarmory; those things will make you cry.

    Going Clubbing

    Marowak @ Thick Club
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant / Jolly Nature
    - Bonemerang
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch
    - Knock Off / Swords Dance

    Baton Pass recipient. Best paired with something like Smeargle or Scolipede to get those smexy Speed boosts. This set takes full advantage of Marowak's impressive physical movepool to wallbreak. Bonemerang is this thing's best STAB move, hitting with the same power as Earthquake while breaking through Sturdy, Substitutes, and Focus Sashes. Stone Edge forms the fabled EdgeQuake combo with Bonemerang, hitting almost everything for neutral damage. Fire Punch is used to get perfect coverage, while smacking Ferrothorn and Skarmory for some nice damage. Knock Off provides some nice utility to the set, and gives it a good option against Lati@s. Meanwhile, Swords Dance can be used to NUKE EVERYTHING.

    I Don't Find These Jokes Humerus
    Marowak @ Thick Club
    Ability: Battle Armor
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    IVs: 0 Spd
    - Bonemerang
    - Stone Edge
    - Fire Punch
    - Knock Off

    The moves may seem similar to the first set, but this set eschews the Baton Pass support and makes for a great Trick Room sweeper. The Brave nature and minimum Speed serve to let it outspeed most teams under Trick Room. Most offensive teams full of fast, frail threats will quickly be dismantled in the face of the sheer power of Marowak. The moves serve the same purposes as before, with a lack of a Swords Dance option because you don't want to waste precious Trick Room turns.

    Other Options: Earthquake, Rock Slide, Thunder Punch, Belly Drum.

    Earthquake and Rock Slide are options that have less power or utility, but more accuracy. Use them as substitutes for Bonemerang and Rock Slide if you wish.

    Thunder Punch hits Gyarados. That's about it, but it can be used.

    Belly Drum may seem appealing, but don't use it. Marowak's just too slow and frail to make use of it.

    Doubles and Triples play:

    Marowak isn't an awful Trick Room option in Doubles/Triples play. It has incredibly powerful Earthquakes and Rock Slides, and it does resist opposing Rock Slides. Surf eats it for breakfast, though.

    Team Options:

    Methods of Baton Passing it Speed boosts are much appreciated. Smeargle and Scolipede are best for this role. Alternatively, run Trick Room support from the likes of Reuniclus and Cofagrigus. Latios is a good partner as well, beating down the physical walls that hinder Marowak.

    Checks and Counters:

    Mega Venusaur and Skarmory take any of its hits well and either kill with Giga Drain or phaze it out, respectively. Countering Marowak is not very easy, as almost everything is 2HKOd by its attacks. Checking it, however, is much easier. Anything faster with a special Water, Grass, or Ice move spells doom for our bony friend.
  12. BlueDryBones1

    BlueDryBones1 Pokemon Breeder

    Marowak is one of my favorite Pokémon. It can force a few switches due to its great power after Thick Club therefore I used to use this Marowak:

    Marowak @ Thick Club
    248 HP / 252 Att / 8 Def
    Rock Head/Battle Armor
    -Earthquake / Bonemerang
    -Double Edge / Focus Punch
    -Stone Edge

    Best to wait for them to switch while you set up a Sub so you can hit them w/ the appropriate move. This Marowak appreciates Wish Support as w/ no Recovery Substitute will wear it down quickly. Don't know if I put the appropriate HP EVs to use Substitute 4 times however if you somehow ever comes to a situation you need to.

    Don't know if its the best or even a good set but meh its been working for me at least.
  13. Missingno. Master

    Missingno. Master Poison-type Trainer

    ...Ah, crap. See, I keep the Lucario one I did as a template for when I do another one of these. Forgot to change the other Abilities... I'll get on that now.
  14. Augla

    Augla Poke Chat's Audino

    Ah, okay, I was wondering why you were talking about Lucario there. That just came off as oddly specific to me, but that makes sense. :)
  15. GirlKirbyZombie

    GirlKirbyZombie Pokemon Rancher

    I've used one of these before

    I don't recall what EVs I gave mine, but I do remember everything else.

    Careful Nature
    Lightning Rod
    Thick Club

    -Rock Slide
    -Fire Punch
    -Swords Dance

    PomPom, who was named after a boomerang-slinging boss from the Mario games, can endure one hit while a Swords Dance and a tailwind was being set up. With that tailwind up, the marowak with 53 speed outsped a lot of other Pokemon. My tail winder was Lumineon because it can protect Marowak from water type attacks. The lightning rod protects Lumineon and Braviary, another tailwinder, in return.

    With that said, I do encourage the use of tailwind just in case the opponent brings Pokemon that can trick the trick room.
  16. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    I want to state that while Belly Drum Marowak is fun, it is too slow to really work, and in terms of attacking power also a bit overkill. Max attack Marowak gets over 3400 attack after Belly Drum (if holding Thick Club) which I think OHKO's everything in the game (it even OHKO's max def+ max hp Giratina-A without entry damage with Earthquake). But Marowak also gets Swords Dance, and with Swords Dance it gets over 1100 attack after a single use, which OHKO's most foes in the lower tiers, especially after stealth rock.
  17. Crash & Charm

    Crash & Charm Change is coming!

    Thrash + Lum berry all I have to say
  18. ajgrocks100

    ajgrocks100 The Loomer

    Ah, Marowak.
    You are super 1-dimensional.
    Here I am to change that
    (a little bit)

    Bones and Swords
    Jolly/Adamant, 252 Atk/Spd, 4 SpD or HP.
    Thick Club
    -Swords Dance
    -Stone Edge

    Switch in during a moment when your opponent thinks all you can do is attack, then BAM. Go for substitute, and set up. With 1 Dance, and thick club, lets just say Skarmory and Landourus-T are your only enemies until that sub falls. Also, so is any form of intimidate (Not From Flying pokes, as much) This is the only variation in Marowak I could think of, besides Belly Drum, which has been mentioned.
  19. ajgrocks100

    ajgrocks100 The Loomer

    2 things:

    1- Your Not the only one
    2-Swap Rock Slide for Rock Slide. GENUIS.
  20. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    To reiterate, using anything other that Thick Club on Marowak is a poor choice. To emphasize:

    252+ Atk Marowak Thrash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 188-222 (26.3 - 31%) -- 10.9% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252+ Atk Thick Club Marowak Double-Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Blissey: 375-442 (52.5 - 61.9%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    (Blissey was just an arbitrary target, btw) You lose out on so much attack by forgoing Thick Club, since Marowak's base 80 attack is just underwhelming without its signature item to double it. If you want to use any other item, you might want to consider using a different Pokemon altogether.
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