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Community POTW #026

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, May 21, 2017.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. Neosonic97

    Neosonic97 Fastest thing Alive

    I'll analyse the stats and abilities.

    HP: 85. Below Average. It's not TOO bad on the HP stat, considering its other defensive stats are decent. But it could use a bit more.
    Atk: 75. Below Average. Normally this would be a problem but most of Palossand's best moves are Special. It can't use Earthquake effectively? It has Earth Power instead. And Shadow Ball. And Giga Drain...
    Def: 110. Good. Base 110 Defense is nice.
    SpA: 100. Average. For a bulky Pokemon, 100 SpA is pretty great.
    SpD: 75. Below Average. It could use a bit more Special Defense but base 75 isn't TOO bad.
    Spe: 35. Great (Trick Room) Base 35 Speed is great for Trick Room teams. Don't bother outside of that, though.

    Water Compaction: Defense increases by two stages when hit by a Water-Type move. This ability, um... let's put it this way: It IS NOT good at all. We've had abilities like this in the past, and they've proven to be of varying use (For example, Rattled isn't all that great but Justified works pretty well), but why, OH WHY, GAME FREAK, would you make Palossand have to take a hit from a type that it's WEAK to that is primarily Special... to increase its PHYSICAL defense?! Yeah... Water Compaction is just plain not worth it. Palossand needs to avoid taking super-effective hits, and this requires it to take a supereffective hit from a type that primarily hits its weaker defense. Couldn't they have made it reduce damage from Water-Type moves, or maybe raise its Special Defense as well?

    Hidden Ability- Sand Veil: Evasion is increased in a Sandstorm. Generally Palossand's preferred ability because, as situational as it is, it doesn't require you to take a metaphorical bazooka to the face unlike Water Compaction. Plus, its main form of recovery actually gets boosted in Sandstorms so hey! Get Tyranitar, Hippowdon or Gigalith over here and bring on the sand!
  3. HeatEdgeSword

    HeatEdgeSword Member

    I still recommend Water Compaction over Sand Veil as Smogon-based battles ban evasion abilities and Sand Veil is just as inconsistency as Water Compaction anyway.
  4. Neosonic97

    Neosonic97 Fastest thing Alive

    [QUOTE="HeatEdgeSword]I still recommend Water Compaction over Sand Veil as Smogon-based battles ban evasion abilities and Sand Veil is just as inconsistency as Water Compaction anyway.[/QUOTE]

    Water Compaction isn't inconsistent, per se. It's just the requirements to use it require you to basically shoot yourself in the foot, and the rewards aren't even that great. Base 110 Defense is not enough to justify having to take a supereffective hit just to get that boost. On a different Pokemon, Water Compaction could have been great. But as Palossand's signature ability? No. Just... no.

    It's weird but this is a case of the ability being screwed over by the Pokemon, not the other way around.
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  5. Local Maple

    Local Maple Active Member

    I have seen this Pokemon perform well in Doubles. Especially when a gimmick or three is introduced.

    In general, great moves for Palossand are Giga Drain (for Water types, healing, and coverage), Shadow Ball (STAB), Earth Power (STAB), and Shore Up. If you're not running Sandstorm, use Water Compaction; otherwise Sand Veil. Natures that take Attack or Speed in favor of Sp.Atk, Sp.Def, or Defense are essential. The three main items I have considered for this Pokemon are Brightpowder (great in combination with Sand Veil), Weakness Policy (5 weaknesses to activate it), and Assault Vest (raises your lower Sp.Def, but you can't run Shore Up with this...).

    Other moves you can consider are Double Team and Stockpile (stall), Hidden Power Ice (perfect coverage with Grass, Ground, and Ghost; hits Flyers and Levitators, demolishes the most common Dragons), Toxic (Stockpile Shore Up stall), Infestation (same as Toxic), Energy Ball (more damage for less healing), Sludge Bomb (for Grass types and Fairies if you don't run HP Ice), and Psychic (wouldn't recommend).


    First off, since this is a slow Pokemon, Trick Room partners is essential.
    For this set, I'd recommend running Protect (for that turn to set Trick Room) and -Speed Natures.

    Second, since Water Compaction is only good when 1) you can survive the Water attacks and 2) have a means of beating them afterward, Sand Veil is usually the preferred Ability, requiring either a Pokemon with Sand Force or one with Sandstorm (which Palossand can bring).
    I have once used a level 1 Smeargle with Trick Room and Water Shuriken to pull this combo off, but it's not very consistent. Also, Palossand with Weakness Policy and Giga Drain can revenge kill several Water types.

    Third, to increase this Pokemon's bulk, a Simple Beam user can maximize Palossand's defenses through Stockpile. Combining that with Weakness Policy and Double Team, and you'll have +4 offenses and +6 Defenses AND Evasion!
    Protect prevents Simple Beam from affecting you, so it might not be best to run it; but using it on a Trick Room turn can be beneficial. Allies that have Trick Room and Simple Beam can also run Heal Pulse if you don't use Shore Up that turn (Audino only), Ally Switch to confuse opponents (Natu and Elgyem's lines), Fling's Rock (Audino, Grumpig, and Inkay's line), Sandstorm (unfortunately, only Smeargle) U-Turn into a Sandstorm/Sand Force (only Natu's Line)... Or just switch out for a Sandstorm/Sand Force Pokemon.
    Of the possible Simple Beam sets, the strongest I ever considered held Leftovers or Leppa Berry and ran Stockpile, Shore Up, Double Team, and Infestation next to Sandstorm setters and/or a Corrosion Toxic/Poison Gas Salazzle. Unfortunately, self-sustaining Pokemon, as well as those with no-Miss/bypass accuracy moves and abilities (like Toxic on Poison-types, Smart Strike Kartana, No Guard Doublade, Darkest Lariat Incineroar...) will run this into the ground. Especially Incineroar, since Darkest Lariat is super effective and ignores both the Defense boosts AND the evasion boosts.
    Last edited: May 21, 2017
  6. SDR152

    SDR152 Member

    Palossand (M) @ Weakness Policy
    Ability: Water Compaction
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
    Calm Nature
    - Amnesia
    - Shore Up
    - Shadow Ball
    - Iron Defense

    This is my personal set that I use for Singles but it'd honestly probably be better in Doubles. It does have the glaring weakness of not being able to hit Normal types and being not very effective against Dark types, but any partner with a decent Fighting move can cover that. Paired with a bulky Follow Me mon, it would be able to set up its defenses without having to worry about something knocking it out first too. And a Weakness Policy to increase its Shadow Ball's power since this set doesn't focus on offense.
  7. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Purifying Palossand

    Palossand is certainly one of the more unorthodox tanks introduced in Alola. A signature move reminiscent of Synthesis for Sandstorm, an ability that "Shores Up" its defenses when it gets hit with its weakness of all things, options for boosting its defenses and strong recovery (not commonly seen in Ghost or Ground types). Its typing grants its immunity/resistance to 4 predominantly physical types (Normal, Fighting, Bug, Rock) as well as Electric and Poison which complement its high 85/110 defense. However, weakness to 4 predominately special types (Water, Ice, Grass and Ghost) as well as a weakness to the ever ubiquitous Dark really hurt Palosand from truly shining.

    Palossand's relationship with Water types is... unique. While Palossand is weak to Water, much like the Sandcastles it is based on, Water is also how Palossand sets up. Weak (as in bulky waters with NO SATK investment) Special water attackers and most Physical Water types will ironically find Palossand an insurmountable wall, as their very attacks makes its own defense stronger, while Palossand weathers their assualts with Giga Drain or Shore Up. Flynium Z Gyarados, physical Floatzel, Poliwrath, Physical Kingdra, will all lose against a Palossand with only max HP investment (admittedly Palossand should be carrying Weakness Policy). Feraligator will lose if it doesn't buff before attacking (against a Max HP/DEF investment)... Though a Sheer Force LO Feraligator will OHKO after setup (Swords Dance or Dragon Dance), provided Palossand has not buffed its defenses. However any dedicated Special Water type, along with overwhelming physical water types (see Crawdaunt, Kingler, Feraligator, as mentioned before toes the line) will easily OHKO Palossand.

    Palossand's other weaknesses are not so surmountable. While Palossand is threatening enough that any ghost types must be cautious on the switch, any Ghost type that gets in safely can severely pressure Passoland with a Faster Shadow Ball (Physical Ghost types should not apply), prime examples being Mismagius, Special Drifblim, Specs Haunter. Ice, while not resisting either of the sandcastle's STABs, fare similarly, with Cloyster, Mega Glalie, and Cryongonal all can at least 2HKO (discounting recovery) with their STAB moves. Grass types, Palossand has no answer for. Excluding those weak to its Ghost STAB, grass types resist 2/3rds of Pallosands common offense. and will 1-2HKO back with their STAB grass moves (Specially Defensive Chesnaught, Alolan Exeggutor, Roserade, Rotom-Mow, Shaymin, Shiinotic, and Special Virizion). Dark types are similar problems, thought most are physical. Zoarark, Pangoro, and Honchcrow can all readily dispatch Pallosand, provided that Pallosand has not accrued any defensive boosts.

    Like most tanks, and especially since Palossand is fond of boosting its defenses, Toxic remains an effective measure of ruining its durability.

    As a side note, most Palossand sets have it carrying Weakness Policy, which boosts its mediocre offenses to something respectable. Knock Off is not the answer, as since Pallosand is weak to dark and Weakness Policy will trip before being knocked off. Not attacking Palossand with Super Effective moves is another answer, but that makes it all the more bulky... Phazing Pallosand will rend Water Compaction and Weakness Policy for naught. Slapping Palossand with a Toxic will prevent it from Walling Effectively and making its usefulness rather limited.
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  8. Missingno. Master

    Missingno. Master Poison-type Trainer

    Son Of A Beach
    Palossand@Assault Vest
    Modest/Quiet nature
    Water Compaction
    252 HP/252 Sp. Atk/4 Defense
    ~Earth Power
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Giga Drain
    ~Sludge Bomb

    Palossand, the Sand Castle Pokémon, and the evolved form of Sandygast. A Ghost and Ground-type. This set takes advantage of Palossand's good Sp. Atk and... workable defenses. Decent HP, nice Defense, and... well, there's a reason we have the Assault Vest. Earth Power and Shadow Ball are STAB. Giga Drain is coverage and recovery all in one. Sludge Bomb is extra coverage still, and works well against those pesky Grass-types.

    Item builds up that "meh" Sp. Def. Ability has the potential to build up Defense even more.

    Sand Fortress
    Calm nature
    Water Compaction/Sand Veil
    252 HP/252 Sp. Atk/4 Sp. Def
    ~Earth Power
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Shore Up

    You probably get the idea by now. Build up Palossand's defenses as best you can, so it can live (for lack of a better term, considering it's a Ghost-type) to launch as many attacks as possible. This is a different approach- Stockpile builds up both defenses. Earth Power and Shadow Ball are STAB. Shore Up is basically Recover in a different wrapper. And it's even better in a Sandstorm.

    Item constantly heals Palossand. Ability depends on what sort of teammates you're sticking Palossand with- anything that can start a Sandstorm? Sand Veil. No? Water Compaction.

    Other options:
    *Infestation is an interesting option to keep certain Pokémon from switching out, could work on the Assault Vest set.
    *Amnesia could help circumvent that iffy Sp. Def.

    *Water Compaction: When hit by a Water move, Palossand's Defense goes up two stages. Palossand does still take damage from the move, so it's not exactly the best Ability. Now, if it meant Water immunity and buffing Sp. Def instead, then we might really have something there, but for now, it's not terrible.
    *Sand Veil: Palossand's Hidden Ability. Palossand's evasiveness is increased during a sandstorm. If you plan to use Palossand on a sand team, this is an option worth consideration, but otherwise... yeah, Water Compaction. And of course, the obligatory reminder that not everyone plays by Smogon rules, and thus, Sand Veil is not universally banned by any stretch of the imagination. Nor should it be.

    Tyranitar, Hippowdon, and Gigalith. No prizes for guessing why. Special walls also complement it nicely, because holy crap, it really could use better Sp. Def.

    Just as special walls complement Palossand nicely, they also counter it nicely. Also, any Normal/Flying-type is immune to both of Palossand's STABs, and also take very little damage from Giga Drain. In particular, Mega Pidgeot also hits Palossand on its weaker Sp. Def, has No Guard to nullify the effects of Sand Veil, and hits hard with STAB Hurricane.

    Palossand. Awesome concept, cool design, stats need work. Seriously. Needs more HP and Sp. Def.

    Prediction for next week:
  9. ampfire101

    ampfire101 Well-Known Member

    In VGC, Palossand is rarely used. Like ever. The only use I have seen for it is Water Shuriken Smeargle + Palossand. This is a great attribute to its defensive stat in conjunction with Water Compaction, but does nothing to help its poor Special Defense. It has a decent base 100 SAtt stat with Earth Power, Shadow Ball, and Energy Ball at its disposal, but it's still a very "meh" kind of Pokémon. Without Smeargle support, it will lose to quite a few Water types, including Araquanid, +1 Gyarados, Tapu Fini, Gastrodon, and Politoed. Grass types like a critical hit from Kartana's Leaf Blade and the sheer power of Tapu Bulu's Grassy Terrain Wood Hammer easily muscle through Palossand's high defense. Blizzard from Vanilluxe and Ninetales deals hefty damage to Palossand. It's probably best to use it on a Trick Room team if you're in the mood for just a fun VGC team. While it makes sense for 252 HP, 252 SAtt, and 4 SDef EVs, some EVs can be moved from HP to special defense alongside Assault Vest to better handle the myriad of specially offensive threats, but for the most part, Mudsdale pulls this sort of a set much better due to the fact that ANY damage will activate Stamina and an arguably more useful move pool. It you really dislike Intimidate and burns, however, Palossand is an okay replacement.

    Sandygast however can be useful in Little Cup due to a unique Ground-Ghost typing to wall mons like Abra and Magnemite in conjunction with reliable recovery in Shore Up and the added defenses of an Eviolite. Earth Power, Shadow Ball, Toxic, and Shore Up would be how I'd play Sandygast in Little Cup. Just beware the low speed stat and the fact that base 45 SDef isn't the greatest and neither is base 70 SAtk.
    Last edited: May 22, 2017
  10. generic villager #5

    generic villager #5 Your ad here!

    Why the Weakness Policy/Shadow Ball combo, though? I can appreciate being able to quickly raise defensive stats according to the present threat, unlike Stockpile, but the Weakness Policy seems odd on a 'mon that's only running one offensive move which will mostly get neutral hits. I'd probably just give it Toxic and Leftovers and be wary of Taunt users. That also has some more utility if you get forced out.
  11. SDR152

    SDR152 Member

    Well even though it'd most likely only get neutral hits, I still felt like it'd be better than a status move like Toxic or WoW because those have multiple types/abilities immune to them. If the Palossand were up against a Steel or Poison type, it would still be able to Shadow Ball for decent damage and possibility of lowering the Sp. Def., but Toxic would be completely useless and then there'd be no way of damaging it. There's also Safeguard users or stuff like Komala's Comatose or the Immunity ability; although admittedly those are also pretty rare. With SB, it only has to worry about 1 type of mon (Normal), which also can't really hurt it with its own STAB moves and any coverage moves they have will likely be tanked by the boosted defenses. Which is another reason I think I should put this set on a doubles team instead of the current singles one its on; it could have a partner to cover for whatever it can't hit.
  12. RedRaselom

    RedRaselom Member

    Wait, so Water Compaction doesn't grant immunity? Like seriously?
  13. ger9119

    ger9119 Well-Known Member

    Sandygast @ Berry Juice
    Level: 5
    Ability: Water Compaction
    EVs: 76 HP / 116 SpA / 76 SpD / 236 Spe
    Modest Nature
    - Rock Polish
    - Earth Power
    - Shadow Ball
    - Destiny Bond

    LC Mention, I think it has more of a niche than it's evolution has. Overall I think it's one of the worse lines in terms of viabilty. If Water Compaction had given it a water immunity it would a whole lot more interesting.
  14. hidood5th

    hidood5th Roberto Del Fuego

    If there was a word to describe Palossand, it would be underwhelming. In a generation filled with crazy walls and wallbreakers, Palossand's defining stat is a solid base 110 defense, which just doesn't bode well these days, especially for a Ghost/Ground type. It certainly has a solid offensive movepool, with powerful STABs in Earth Power and Shadow Ball and solid coverage with Giga Drain and Psychic, and even it's own unique Synthesis-style recovery move, Palossand could potentially be used as a tanky Special powerhouse, but base 100 Special Attack just isn't enough to warrant it. Finish it off with an ability that might as well ask you to play russian roulette with a Super Soaker, and Palossand just doesn't have the tools to stand out in the upper-level metagame.
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