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Community POTW #028

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AreaManEXE

Rotater
Honestly, Garchomp just might be one of the best Pokemon even conceived due to his power and speed. I like Mega 'Chomp, but I personally feel that there are better Megas to use. Nonetheless, Garchomp alone has a bunch of different opportunities and different roles for a competitive team.

Personally, I use 'Chomp as a late game sweeper, or as an unexpected switch since he has enough bulk to take most anything bar fairy, dragon, and ice attacks. With the right team supporting him and solid predictions, Garchomp is tough to break.

The set I've been running since Gen V is as follows:
Scarfed 'Chomp
Garchomp with Choice Scarf
Rough Skin
Adamant
4 HP/252 Atk/252 Spd
-Fire Fang
-Earthquake
-Outrage
-Crunch

Adamant nature with 252 Atk EVs allows Garchomp's attack to skyrocket. Pair that with 252 Spd EVs and a choice scarf, and Garchomp becomes very, very deadly. Of course choice scarf locks your move, which is why using Garchomp later in the game with at least one of your Pokemon still alive allows for scouting and maintaining a solid battle flow. Rough skin can break sturdy, focus sash, marvel scale, and I feel that it's way more viable than sand veil especially since weather has been nerfed in Gen VI.

Fire Fang hits Skarmory, Ferrothorn, and other types that would resist any of his other moves. Earthquake for STAB and power, although prediction is key as you don't want to use it and have your opponent switch into a Rotom or Talonflame (or really anything that resists Earthquake). I personally feel that Outrage is Garchomp's best dragon type attack to have only because it's incredibly powerful and, once I've become confused, I pull a switch and therefore open up Garchomp's movepool after 2-3 turns of STAB 120 base damage raging. Crunch is super important as well to run on a Garchomp because it counters Mega Gengar, Mega Alakazam, and other powerful ghost and psychic types. If used correctly, I find this Garchomp set to be really devastating to an opponent.

OTHER MOVES TO CONSIDER:
-Iron Head: Great to counter fairy/ice types, but personally I wouldn't use a Garchomp against a fairy or ice Pokemon. Sure it could hit rock types as well, but that's what Earthquake is for.
-Poison Jab: Same deal as Iron Head, but still could be an unexpected move to use.
-Fire Blast: Definitely better than Fire Fang in terms of damage, but it's kinda pointless since we'd be running 252 Atk and 0 SAtk EVs (plus I don't like the lowered accuracy).
-Stone Edge: I really, really, really wish Pokemon could have 5 attacks just so I could use Stone Edge to counter Talonflame or Mega Charizard. It'd definitely be worth having, but Crunch wins only because of the damage to psychics and ghosts.

Overall, Garchomp hits fast and hard. He can take solid damage, but ice and fairy moves wreck him. Ice shard is a great counter to this particular Garchomp because of it's priority.
 

oogaman

Member
Please for the love of god, don't make sets with iron head. While it's good against fairies and ice types, Grachomp's STAB Earthquake hits with only 10 less BP, and the latter type is almost nonexistent in OU. Fairy/flying types are really the only ones to look out for, but Stone Edge does a heck of a lot more damage to them. Other than that, all the sets look really good, cuz obviously, Garchomp's a great Pokemon.
 

Mestorn

Wandering Battler
Stopping the 'Chomp

With good defenses, speed and attack, few things can stop Garchomp without getting maimed, but they do exist. Burning Garchomp is a good way to freeze its offense, barring a special based Mega-Chomp. When it comes to out right KOing the monster, as mentioned many times, ice is the way to go. Even the Ice Beam from a Starmie is liable to do serious damage if not outright KO Garchomp. Faster things with Ice moves are good counters and the list is quite substantial: Cyrogonal, Latios, Latias, Froslass, Starmie, Weavile, Greninja, and Aerodactyl. These pokemon have a higher base speed than Garchomp, but depending on EV distributions and Choice Scarf, it still may be able to outspeed them. And regardless of speed, Ice Shard is Kryptonite to Garchamp, with Mamoswine and MegaAbomasnow being shining users of the move. The list expands if you include Dragon and Fairy moves, but the sand shark's bulk makes OHKOs more elusive. Whimsicott and Togekiss get special mention for resisting both of Chomp's STABs but are slaughtered by the appropriate coverage move. Catching Garchomp before the setup is another good strategy: Slowbro can take an unboosted hit on the switch and scare or kill the shark with Ice Beam. After Garchomp sets up... Prankster Ditto anyone?
 
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Kraleck

Well-Known Member
Please for the love of god, don't make sets with iron head. While it's good against fairies and ice types, Grachomp's STAB Earthquake hits with only 10 less BP, and the latter type is almost nonexistent in OU. Fairy/flying types are really the only ones to look out for, but Stone Edge does a heck of a lot more damage to them. Other than that, all the sets look really good, cuz obviously, Garchomp's a great Pokemon.

Well put about Iron Head. Steel Type Moves are a little useless thanks to Rock and STAB Ground handling Pokémon of the Types Garchomp is weak to. The only thing Steel will effectively hit harder than those 2 Types would be Carbink due to its Quad Weakness. Even then, Carbink, like Shuckle, has access to Sturdy and insane defenses that make it a moot point to try for a 1-shot KO on that low HP.
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
After Garchomp sets up... Prankster Ditto anyone?

I believe you mean Imposter Ditto.

That said, Imposter Ditto has to be wary of ScarfChomp; Ditto relies on Scarf itself to outspeed whatever Imposter turns it into, but with ScarfChomp, they end up speed-tying. As such, it's a huge gamble trying to revenge-kill ScarfChomp with Ditto, as half the time you'll end up with a dead Ditto, and thus you'll be down a Pokemon.
 

AreaManEXE

Rotater
Please for the love of god, don't make sets with iron head. While it's good against fairies and ice types, Grachomp's STAB Earthquake hits with only 10 less BP, and the latter type is almost nonexistent in OU. Fairy/flying types are really the only ones to look out for, but Stone Edge does a heck of a lot more damage to them. Other than that, all the sets look really good, cuz obviously, Garchomp's a great Pokemon.

I feel the same way about poison jab. Is there any other reason Garchomp would use it? Crunch is the far superior option after a dragon move, earthquake, and fire fang (or whatever else you may be running).
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
I feel the same way about poison jab. Is there any other reason Garchomp would use it? Crunch is the far superior option after a dragon move, earthquake, and fire fang (or whatever else you may be running).

...Not really. Crunch is really rather lackluster. It doesn't really cover any relevant threats; ghosts tend to be physically frail, so dragon STAB moves deal with them well enough, and in the case of Aegislash (who is by far the most used Ghost type), Earthquake hits it harder. Psychic types are in the same boat, and the most common ones (Latios, Latias, Espeon, Alakazam, Deoxys-S/D) are all annihilated by either a Dragon STAB or Earthquake.

Crunch may have decent neutral coverage but it doesn't especially add any coverage that Garchomp appreciates. Stone Edge/Rock Slide gives much better coverage, most notably destroying the one thing that's immune to both of its STABs (Togekiss), and it gets a Sand Force boost on Mega Sets.
 
I feel the same way about poison jab. Is there any other reason Garchomp would use it? Crunch is the far superior option after a dragon move, earthquake, and fire fang (or whatever else you may be running).

People use it to hit Azumarill. The question is why:

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The difference is negligible in most situations. I guess... poison is nice...?
 

RDaneel

Active Member
People use it to hit Azumarill. The question is why:

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The difference is negligible in most situations. I guess... poison is nice...?

¿30 % chance of poisoning?

I run this set:

Item: Lum Berry
Ability: Rough Skin
Nature: Jolly (+Spd,-SpA.)
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP

-Poison Jab
-Earthquake
-Stone Edge
-Dual Chop

I was going to use Dragon Claw, but Dual Chop allows you to break substitutes, focus sash and the second time it hits Multiscale Dragonite harder...
 

Everlasting

Everything stays.
People use it to hit Azumarill. The question is why:

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The difference is negligible in most situations. I guess... poison is nice...?

Unless Azumarill is already hit at half, I don't know anyone who would send a Garchomp against an Azumarill as it will most likely OHKO the Garchomp with a single Play Rough (if not, Aqua Jet finishes the job). Poison Jab is relatively useless on Garchomp as it can't deal with most Fairy types.
 
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Magiclapras

Dragon Goddess Flyder
There are better ways of dealing with Azumarill. Assuming we're still talking about Iron Head, it only hits for neutral damage anyway. The 2 sets that I run or would use:

Jolly/Rough Skin/Mega Stone
Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush
Crunch
Iron Head/Stone Edge
EQ

With the 2nd set, just replace the Mega Stone with Choice Scarf.
 

AreaManEXE

Rotater
People use it to hit Azumarill. The question is why:

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 196-232 (48.5 - 57.4%) -- 94.1% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Garchomp Poison Jab vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Azumarill: 212-250 (52.4 - 61.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

The difference is negligible in most situations. I guess... poison is nice...?

I was playing online last night and a Garchomp with poison jab made quick work of my Azumarill. I belly drummed, sitrus berried, and was promptly poison jabbed ]:

EDIT:

My Azumarill has 4 HP EVs. Once it recovered it had maybe an 1/8 missing of it's health but still was OHKO'd by Garchomp. I guess I should've done a 252 HP/4 Atk/252 Spd Azumarill to counter Garchomp?
 
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KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
Unless Azumarill is already hit at half, I don't know anyone who would send a Garchomp against an Azumarill as it will most likely OHKO the Garchomp with a single Play Rough (if not, Aqua Jet finishes the job). Poison Jab is relatively useless on Garchomp as it can't deal with most Fairy types.

That's the thing; no one's going to send Garchomp in on Azumarill, but if Azumarill is being 2HKO'ed, then you can't reliably send Azumarill in on Garchomp either. That makes it a check rather than a counter. Even more so if Stealth Rock is in play.

There are better ways of dealing with Azumarill. Assuming we're still talking about Iron Head, it only hits for neutral damage anyway. The 2 sets that I run or would use:

Jolly/Rough Skin/Mega Stone
Dragon Claw/Dragon Rush
Crunch
Iron Head/Stone Edge
EQ

With the 2nd set, just replace the Mega Stone with Choice Scarf.

I really don't understand people's fascination with Crunch. The coverage it adds is minimal at best, unless you want to hit something like Bronzong or Balloon Metagross (which is a rarity) on a choice set. Even then, you can usually opt for Fire Blast to nail physically defensive steel types that aren't hit SE by Earthquake. It also has the benefit of frying Scizor and Ferrothorn if they try to switch in. The most popular Ghost, Aegislash, is hit harder by Earthquake than Crunch anyway, and Earthquake doesn't make direct contact so Garchomp won't suffer an attack drop from a King's Shield that way. The most popular Psychics, such as Espeon and Alakazam, are so physically frail that any STAB will usually do them in, and Latios/Latias can't switch in due to Garchomp's Dragon STAB destroying them.

Crunch really just doesn't add all that much.

Also, there's really no reason to use Dragon Rush on any set. It's just not viable at all. That 75% accuracy is just too much of a letdown for 100 base power. Both Dragon Claw and Outrage have perfect accuracy, so Dragon Rush's decisively middle-of-the-road power isn't worth the 1/4 chance to miss. Garchomp has much better options for coverage.
 
Unless Azumarill is already hit at half, I don't know anyone who would send a Garchomp against an Azumarill as it will most likely OHKO the Garchomp with a single Play Rough (if not, Aqua Jet finishes the job). Poison Jab is relatively useless on Garchomp as it can't deal with most Fairy types.

No, you have it mixed up. Azumarill comes in on Garchomp. Garchomp coming in on Azumarill is just asking for trouble.
 
Swords Dance Mega Chomp with Sand support is pretty scary for defensive teams to have to deal with. Even physically defensive Skarmory is cleanly 2HKOed by a +2 Sand Force-boosted Stone Edge, while the most it can do in return is just phaze Garchomp out. It's also slow enough to where you can comfortably run an Adamant nature without worrying too much about outspeeding stuff. Sand Force-boosted Earthquakes are stupidly scary after a Swords Dance. In fact, Adamant Mega Chomp's Sand Force Earthquake is about 74% stronger than Jolly Garchomp's Earthquake. That's a lot.

So yeah, I guess that's an option, although admittedly the mixed set probably gets similar enough results without the need for a boosting move. I guess you could theoretically run a bulky Stealth Rock set since 108 / 115 / 95 defenses are pretty solid and Mega Chomp still hits really hard without investment, but then you have to give up Rough Skin and either Leftovers recovery or the stupid amounts of passive damage provided by the Rocky Helmet.
 
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13_luckynumber

Well-Known Member
How does the evasion stat work? Like if Sand Veil gives you an extra 20%, and Hydro Pump is 80% accurate, how accurate is Hydro Pump now?
 
How does the evasion stat work? Like if Sand Veil gives you an extra 20%, and Hydro Pump is 80% accurate, how accurate is Hydro Pump now?

The two values are multiplied, as with all independent variables when calculating probability.

Sand Veil creates an 80% chance to hit, and Hydro Pump has 80% accuracy. As such the new accuracy is 80% times 80% which is 64%.

In all honesty, I really can't say much more about Garchomp. There's always the cute defensive set, but that's extremely uncommon and is kinda gimmicky. (basically Rocky Helmet+Rough Skin+Dragon Tail)
 
Okay, Garchomp is Garchomp. It has literally gained nothing new since gen 4 besides Rough Skin + Rocky Helmet.

But Mega Garchomp is another thing entirely. Anyone have any good ideas for it? Besides the standard sand sweeper with EQ / Draco Meteor / Fire Blast / Stone Edge.

It doesnt really need anything new tbh, but I have a different approach to the mega set, which functions exceptionally with Sticky Web support:

Garchomp @ Garchompite
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 80 Atk / 252 SAtk / 176 Spd
Rash Nature
- Draco Meteor
- Fire Blast
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge

Outspeeds base 130s after web, OHKOs Mega Scizor with Fire Blast, 2HKOs Lando and Gliscor (counting two turns of Poison Heal recovery) with Draco Meteor, and 2HKOs Offensive Togekiss while Speed tying with her. That doesnt include the sand bonus. I can provide calcs if needed, but either way, this set is scary. Just watch out for things that are unaffected by Sticky Web, such as the Latis.
 
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