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Community POTW #034

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jul 16, 2017.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Time for the next Pokémon of the Week and this week we conclude our 3 week movie celebration, this time focusing on Soji's main Pokémon

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    It's Lucario, and its Mega Evolved variant, Mega Lucario

    Go nuts

  2. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    Lucario. One Pokemon that everyone knows and loves. But how good is it? Lucario has good stats, a good movepool and a very good Mega Evolution. All this adds up to a pretty good Pokemon.

    + 110/115 Offenses give Lucario a big Fighting Ability
    + Being part Steel makes it so it has lots of resistances and 1 immunity
    + A huge Movepool allowing all sorts of sets to be run
    + 90 Speed is decent for a Pokemon like Lucario
    + A very good Mega Evolution

    - 70/70/70 isn't very bulky. A few non-resisted hits may cause trouble
    - Being part Steel is a double-edged sword as it also gains 3 very common weaknesses
    - Some of its coverage moves are not available in Sun and Moon such as Ice Punch and Drain Punch
    - Having to run mixed sets makes Lucario even more frailer than before
    - None of Lucario's Abilities are that useful

    Inner Focus: Prevents Flinching: Situational, but sometimes useful; although unlikely as flinching isn't very common.
    Steadfast: Raises Speed each time this Pokemon flinches: Even more situational and lucario is already really fast so this option if basically useless.
    Hidden Ability:
    Justified: Raises Attack when hit by a Dark-Type move: Again, situational but an Attack boost may make Lucario really deadly

    Countering: Chandelure is brilliant counter to Lucario, being immune to one STAB and resisting the other while being able to OHKO back with a Fire move. Infernape can work well with STAB Fire and Fighting moves although Infernape can't take too many hits and faster Pokemon can revenge kill Lucario pretty easily as if it runs Close Combat, it drops its own defenses.

    Mega Evolution:
    Lucario Didn't really need a Mega, but it appreciates having one. +100 BST into some stats and a new ability can really help some Pokemon. And Lucario is one of them.

    + 145/140 Offenses make Mega Lucario an amazing wallbreaker.
    + Still has its good typing
    + Still has its amazing movepool
    + 112 Speed now allows it to outspeed many threats so this is a great speed tier
    + A much more useful Ability
    + An overall awesome Pokemon

    - Mega Lucario isn't much bulkier. 70/88/70 can still ruin one's day
    - Its typing still has its drawbacks
    - Having to hold a Lucarionite means some of its raw power isn't obtainable in its Mega Form

    Adaptability: Boosts STAB moves from 1.5x to 2x. Now we're talking. This is what allows Mega Lucario to Achieve its raw power and what allows KOs.

    Counters: Primal Groudon takes hits very well and can OHKO back with a STAB Ground or Fire move, Lunala is immune to STAB fighting moves and can hit back with a Moongeist Beam and Complete Zygarde is bulky enough to take hits and to OHKO Mega Lucario with a Thousand Arrows.
  3. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    Chandelure isn't really a counter. It can revenge kill if its scarfed, but it gets OHKO'd by earth quake or stone edge by life orb jolly lucario. They'd need to carry so much defence investment as well as a choice scarf that it would pretty much have to be dedicated to countering Lucario. Unaware Quagsire can be a pretty nice switch in, since most are either nasty plot or swords dance. But given Lucario's versatility there aren't really any safe switch-ins. Even slowbro and Jellicent worry about dark pulse on special sets.
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  4. Missingno. Master

    Missingno. Master Poison-type Trainer

    Aura You Ready?
    Jolly nature
    252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
    ~High Jump Kick
    ~Shadow Claw
    ~Bullet Punch
    ~Extreme Speed

    Lucario has always been pretty decent, and it hasn't stopped yet. High Jump Kick is your STAB move of choice, and along with Shadow Claw, means completely unresisted coverage right there. Bullet Punch is additional STAB, as well as priority, which can be useful as Mega Lucario doesn't outspeed everything. Extreme Speed is there for similar reasons- need priority against something Steel's not that good against? There you go.

    Item lets Lucario Mega Evolve. Ability lets it come in on Dark moves for a free Attack boost prior to going Mega.

    Ready Aura Not
    Timid nature
    Steadfast/Inner Focus
    252 Sp Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
    ~Aura Sphere
    ~Flash Cannon
    ~Shadow Ball
    ~Vacuum Wave

    Mega Lucario can go special, too. Aura Sphere and Flash Cannon are your STAB moves. Shadow Ball along with Aura Sphere gives that beautiful unresisted coverage. And Vacuum Wave is STAB priority.

    Item we explained. Ability is irrelevant.

    Other options:
    *Lucario can do stuff without having to go Mega, but that's really only a concern if you're playing by Smogon rules, or one of those official competitons, which for some strange reason haven't been allowing Mega Stones yet. Either way, non-Mega Lucario can be pretty respectable, though something like Agility or a Choice Scarf wouldn't be a bad idea to help its Speed.
    *Non-Mega Lucario can also do stuff with Z-Crystals. Turning Iron Tail into Corkscrew Crash would give it an actually decent Steel STAB move. If only Iron Tail had better accuracy, that move in and of itself would be great...
    *Me First is an interesting option on something like Mega Lucario with such powerful attacking stats on both sides.

    *Inner Focus: Lucario can't flinch. Nobody's gonna try to flinch a Lucario anyway, though, so yeah.
    *Steadfast: When Lucario flinches, its Speed goes up one stage. Again, though, with Abilities like these, nobody's even gonna try to flinch a Lucario, so...
    *Justified: Lucario's Hidden Ability. When Lucario is hit by a Dark move, its Attack goes up one stage. Unlike Abilities like Sap Sipper, though, Justified doesn't make Lucario immune to Dark moves. Which means, by the way, you really, really, REALLY want to switch in on a Beat Up. Yeah.
    *Adaptability: Mega Lucario's Ability. Mega Lucario's STAB multiplier is x2 instead of x1.5. Makes its STAB moves even more incredibly powerful. And coming off those attacking stats, that's saying a lot. So yeah. You see the appeal of Mega Lucario.

    Lucario wants to outspeed all the things. Tailwind and Sticky Web are both very good support options. Meanwhile, stuff that can get rid of Sticky Web on your own side, that's also a good idea.

    If you know whether the Lucario is physical or special, you can bring in something to wall it. Chansey and Blissey, even with that Fighting weakness, will give special Lucario some trouble, while solid physical walls like Weezing and Skarmory will be tough for physical Lucario to handle. Scolipede also deserves mention- respectable Defense, Speed Boost gives it some serious Speed, and with that great Attack stat and a powerful Earthquake, it's not something Lucario really wants to screw with.

    Lucario is just cool. No other word for it.

    Prediction for next week:
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  5. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Close Combat > HJK on Lucario. The difference in power is negligible, and Close Combat doesn't have to worry about random misses or the rather damning side effect of losing half its HP to a miss/Ghost type/Protect. Plus since Lucario is so frail anyway, Close Combat's defense drops are of relatively little consequence to it.
  6. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    I do understand your point as Chandelure is destroyed by Earthquake and Stone Edge. But a Choice Scarf Chandelure outspeeds Choice Scarf Lucario and OHKOs. Do be careful that Chandelure can easily swap into Lucario and OHKO non-choice scarf Lucario with some Speed Investment.
  7. Ivysnake

    Ivysnake Poison Gym Leader

    If the Lucario was scarfed, why would it need to worry about stone edge and earthquake unless they're locked into it?
  8. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    That doesn't make it a counter, chandelure is a check even if its scarfed. A counter is a pokemon that can switch in to all the common sets run by an opposing pokemon and threaten it with a KO or force it out. For example a Mega Charizard Y can counter Scizor because its barely going to take any damage from its attacks and it can OHKO it with flamethrower. Switching chandelure into a lucario is incredible risky because many of them carry earthquake, stone edge or dark pulse.

    Also, Scarf Chandelure doesn't outspeed scarf lucario but that's not much of an issue since Lucario doesn't really run scarf very often.
  9. Rocxidi

    Rocxidi ס₪₪₪§€ΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞ7

    252+ SpA Choice Specs Technician Scizor Hidden Power Rock vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Charizard: 428-508 (144.1 - 171%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    It's hard to believe Lucario will be using Stone Edge / Earthquake all the time considering how many moves it wants to run. Typically you want a boosting move and a priority move, so that leaves only 2 other attacks that Lucario can be running, and its hard to turn down STAB moves for coverage. In any case, you could scout the Lucario's moveset somehow.


    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Ability: Inner Focus
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Nasty Plot
    - Vacuum Wave
    - Flash Cannon
    - Aura Sphere

    Special Lucario is life.
  10. ger9119

    ger9119 Well-Known Member

    Lucario @ Life Orb
    Ability: Justified
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Jolly Nature
    - Swords Dance
    - Close Combat
    - Extreme Speed
    - Ice Punch/Iron tail

    Lucario has fallen from grace a tad bit this gen mainly due to it's lackluster 90 base speed which is really bad for a pokemon with weak defenses which means it can't switch in to often in a match. It's relegated to a cleaner role on teams, and it's signature set with Swords Dance + Extreme Speed can accomplish that.
  11. Gardellade

    Gardellade Member

    Item: Lucarionite
    252 Attack/252 Speed/4 Def
    ~Close Combat
    ~Swords Dance
    ~Bullet Punch
    ~Iron Tail/Stone Edge

    With 145 base attack and Adaptability, Mega Lucario hits ridiculously hard, especially if it gets a SD boost. Close Combat is the fighting STAB of choice with great power, good neutral coverage and the Adaptability boost. Bullet Punch has priority and OHKO's standard Geo-Xern 100% of the time with rocks, or with some chip damage. Your last move comes down to what helps your team more. Iron tail provides a stronger adaptability boosted steel type STAB. Stone Edge hits Ho-Oh harder than any other move. Ability of choice pre-mega is justified so you can potentially get a free attack boost by switching into dark type attacks. Adamant guarantees an OHKO on Mega Gengar with +2 Bullet Punch, but Jolly lets you outspeed base 110's such as Mega Metagross and Lugia.

    Other options:
    Ice Punch - Hits Zygarde-C, Mega Salamence, and Landorus harder than your other moves, but isn't very useful otherwise.
    Crunch - Hits Lunala hard because of its 4x weakness, but all other psychic type/ghost type threats are hit harder by Iron Tail.
    Special Set- While Lucario's special moves lack the raw power of its physical moves, a special set consisting of Nasty Plot, Aura Sphere, Flash Cannon, Vacuum Wave or Dark Pulse could have a nice surprise factor.

    Primal Groudon. PDon can absorb paralysis and burns while Mega Lucario can take Toxics. Mega Lucario also appreciates rocks support, which Primal Groudon can set up.
    Xerneas. Xerneas appreciates Mega Lucario's ability to break down a lot of Ubers that could potentially stop a geomancy sweep.
    Yveltal. Yveltal can get rid of the many ghosts and psychics that would otherwise be a nuisance to Mega Lucario.

    Countering Mega Lucario:
    Faster ghost types are immune to Close Combat and can switch in to OHKO Mega Lucario with various attacks. Arceus-Ghost is bulky enough to take a +2 Bullet Punch and OHKO in return with Focus Blast. Mega Gengar can trap Mega Lucario and also OHKO with Focus Blast, but has to be wary of +2 Bullet Punch since it's a guaranteed OHKO from an Adamant Lucario and a almost a guaranteed OHKO from Jolly if rocks are up. Most variants of Giratina are 2HKO'd by +2 Iron tail and can force Lucario to switch out with Dragon Tail or burn it with Will-O-Wisp. Scarf Lunala can switch in to any attack from +2 Mega Lucario besides Crunch if Shadow Shield is active and can OHKO in return with Focus Blast or Moongeist Beam (with some chip damage). Keep in mind without scarf, Lunala doesn't outspeed and likely gets OHKO'd by Crunch, or Iron Tail if Shadow Shield isn't up. Aegislash can potentially drop Mega Lucario's attack with King's Shield, but gets OHKO'd by Crunch at +2, and 2HKO'd by Iron Tail at +2.

    Toxapex can take any of Mega Lucario's attacks and try to burn it with Scald or Haze the boosts away. Specially Defensive variants are 2HKO'd by Iron Tail at +2, however.

    EDIT: Added Special Set to other options
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2017
  12. ampfire101

    ampfire101 Well-Known Member

    Okay here we go with VGC sets for Lucario. Lucario to be honest doesn't have much going for it in 2017. Base 90 Speed coupled with base 70 defenses all around mean that Lucario has a hard time dealing with common threats like Garchomp, Tapu Lele, and Tapu Koko. Intimidate is another thing that hinders its usage. Jolly Krookodile can easily outspeed and KO with a Tectonic Rage, Gyarados is safe to sit pretty in front of Lucario and set up in its face or go for a KO with Hydro Vortex. And Arcanine... yeah I don't even need to talk about that matchup for Lucario. So how do you use it? Well I've spent some time with the LATAM winner, Ashton Cox, and his sister, Gwenn and Gwenn has been running Lucario for a while on a Torkoal Lilligant Trick Room team. The idea is to use Lucario's access to Final Gambit along with a Choice Scarf to pair well with Oranguru. You can score a knockout onto an opponent if it's frail enough then use Trick Room in the same turn. Then bring in Torkoal or Snorlax to do what they do best and abuse the speed inversions. If that isn't really your cup of tea, then Lucario can have some niche uses. As a Fighting type, STAB Close Combat/Hi Jump Kick/Low Kick in the current meta is extremely valuable to counter Snorlax. Feint is also valuable in a format where Protect runs rampant, Poison Jab does massive damage to Tapus when it connects, Bulldoze is a pretty niche form of speed control, and Extreme Speed, as we have seen by even bulky variants of Arcanine, is great for picking off weakened threats outside of Psychic Terrain (same goes for Bullet Punch). Lucario even gets Follow Me and Blaze Kick as Egg Moves! However, Hariyama, Buzzwole, and Pheromosa typically do better as a Fighting type for your team as Hariyama, while slow and bulky, can still outspeed Snorlax and isn't weak to High Horsepower. Guts boosted Close Combat also hits harder than Hi Jump Kick from Lucario. Also, Hariyama gets Feint, Poison Jab, and Bulldoze too, as well as Fake Out. Buzzwole can perform on about the same level as Lucario. So why is Buzzwole preferred? Access to Ice Punch, better physical attack, and a more usable secondary STAB in Leech Life on a physical set it apart by being able to counter Garchomp, more easily handle Arcanine, and recover itself to an extent with Leech Life. Both are subpar without a good speed boost like Tailwind or a Choice Scarf. Pheromosa and Lucario share a common problem in that both are frail. Sure Lucario has better defenses, but dangerous attackers like the Tapus, Arcanine, and UBs can still make short work of them with presented with the opportunity. And unfortunately for Lucario, that's the big selling point. Pheromosa is blisteringly fast at bast 151 speed, and only weather speed boosters and Scarf Pokémon can outspeed it, leaving little opportunity for opponents to fight back without eating a hit first. Lucario is both frail and slow and weak to the same things as Pheromosa and so much more, meaning opponents have so many opportunities to KO Lucario. Plus Buzzwole and Pheromosa are rewarded for KOs with a Beast Boost, whereas Lucario lacks a good ability (unless you're into Inner Focus). When opponents see Lucario in team preview, it's just standard to expect a Scarf and Final Gambit in this format. Lucario is not able to surprise opponents well because of this, as any other item on Lucario can be very detrimental to it (other than maybe a Z move), so if your opponent figures out Lucario doesn't have a Scarf, it simply becomes that much easier to deal with. All said and done, Lucario does have its niche like I explained earlier but finds it very hard to perform outside of it with so much competition for a potentially dangerous fighting type slot that it's hard to justify using it outside of a Scarf Final Gambit set.
  13. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    Lucario is the one running Earthquake and/or Rock Slide, and even then, it still makes Chandelure a good counter.

    Not necessarily. Many Pokemon counter other Pokemon, not exactly check them. Either way, Chandelure can OHKO Lucario, making it a counter.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 17, 2017
  14. Rocxidi

    Rocxidi ס₪₪₪§€ΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞ7

    That's not the definition of a counter. A counter is a Pokémon that can switch in to another Pokémon and beat it 100% of the time, without taking hax into consideration. Because Chandelure can die to Stone Edge or Earthquake, it isn't a counter, it's a check.
  15. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    Yeah, knowing what set Lucario is running really helps. But you need to be careful, since if you just send in a wall to scout it out, you risk it setting up on you. Plus earthquake lucario isn't exactly a rare niche. You probably need something with Unaware or roar, and a lot of bulk or get over the fact that Lucario is probably going to major damage. But having something faster that can revenge kill it will do. Arcanine can be useful as a check, it gets an intimidate off so physical sets aren't as scary, offensive variants outspeed and easily OHKO, and the really bulky variants can take hits from the special sets well. Also, Conkeldurr has a chance to KO with a mach punch at max attack adamant with a life orb, has a smaller chance to OHKO with an assault vest and iron fist. It guarantees an OHKO with a guts boosted mach punch without an offensive item too. Basically a lot of conkeldurr sets get a chance to Lucario with a mach punch, especially if its already taken life orb damage. Physically bulky hippowdon can take serious damage from Lucario too, it can usually live a +2 ice punch and usually a +2 extreemespeed after that.
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
  16. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    True. But not many Lucario run Stone Edge/Earthquake. And if they don't, Chandelure is your definition of a counter. And even if they do, Chandelure can still beat Lucario 1 on 1.
  17. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Lucario @ Lucarionite
    Timid nature
    252 Sp.Atk, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    -Aura Sphere
    -Flash Cannon
    -Dark Pulse
    -Vacuum Wave

    Aura Sphere is a STAB move that never misses, hits stuff like Minimize Chansey. Flash Cannon is the other STAB move and hits stuff like Mimikyu, Tapu Lele, and Tapu Bulu. Dark Pulse is coverage to hit Alolan Marowak, Aegislash, Gengar, and some others, and is chosen over Shadow Ball for its useful flinching side effect. Vacuum Wave is priority to destroy stuff like Scarf Kartana. Lucarionite is by far the strongest item Lucario can run, giving a larger boost to its STAB moves than even Choice Specs. Lucario can also go physical, although it lacks a solid Steel STAB outside of Bullet Punch on the physical side. Stat boosting is also possible, although Lucario is a bit too frail to do it reliably.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  18. Neosonic97

    Neosonic97 Fastest thing Alive

    A counter assumes it can switch in through the worst possible scenario (That means assume it gets hit with the move that would do the most damage to it) barring any luck-based influence such as crits, misses or non-guaranteed statuses, and force the opponent out. In this case, since Lucario CAN use Earthquake and Stone Edge, you have to assume it WILL, for the purposes of Chandelure being a 'counter'. Since Chandelure is OHKO'd by both, this prevents Chandelure from being a counter, and it is instead a check.

    To give a better example, Primal Groudon is a counter to Pikachu (Extreme example, but it helps get the point across). The best move Pikachu can use against Primal Groudon, Grass Knot, only does about 40% of its health in damage with max investment and a Light Ball, where Primal Groudon one-shots Pikachu with everything barring the occasional HP Ice, which still chunks off a good 60-70% of Pikachu's health, still outpacing Pikachu. Since Pikachu can in no way win this scenario without a lot of luck, Primal Groudon is a counter.
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  19. Kiyoshi

    Kiyoshi Veteran Trainer

    Will the generation Tapu Lele exists be the one this original moveset finally gets mentioned?...

    12 Parsecs Flat
    ~ Work Up/Laser Focus
    ~ Bullet Punch
    ~ Vacuum Wave
    ~ Shadow Claw/Extreme Speed
    Item Attached: Lucarionite
    Ability: Steadfast/Adaptability
    EVs and Nature: 252 Attack/252 Special Attack/4 Speed
    Hasty Nature/Naive

    If you've seen my entry last gen's POTW, you know the drill. Get in, boost, hit everything with priority until you faint. (Mega)Lucario is one of two Pokemon that can run a boosting move + 3 priority moves... And unlike Smeargle, (Mega)Lucario gets STAB on two, and has the stats and ability to really abuse them.
    New to this moveset for Gen VII... Laser Focus; turns your next hit into a guaranteed critical hit (I did not know Lucario even got this move). Shadow Claw instead of Extreme Speed; (someone's gonna say it no matter how many times I bring it up, but) Tapu Lele exists and Shadow Claw is your best move to deal with it. If you have one or two dedicated Lele counters on your team already, by all means run Extreme Speed instead.

    So, despite Lele's existence, why run this moveset?
    - Can get +1/+1/+1 in the stats it needs if you play right.
    - Immune to Poison, ignores Paralysis most of the time, and can still fight despite Burned (or Intimidated).
    - Destroys Kartana (Do the math and prove me wrong).
    - Checks, if not counters, Pokemon such as Xerneas (uses moveslot to boost its Speed), Blaziken (Speed Boost), and Pheromosa (naturally high Speed).
    - Ignores Tailwind and Trick Room.
    - 2 priority moves with 80 BP (counting Adaptability) with potential for Super Effective damage off of a Base 145 Attack & Base 140 Special Attack.

    Ideal Partners: Not a complete list for sure, but good partners include...
    Tapu Fini; deals with Dragons, most of which check this set easily.
    Tapu Koko; Electric Terrain for Sleep immunity and deal with Talonflame, a reasonable counter.
    Tapu Bulu; protects against Ground types.
    The fact that all three replace Tapu Lele's Psychic Terrain is just coincidence. Honest.
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