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Community POTW #037

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Aug 6, 2017.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. SwiftGrovyle

    SwiftGrovyle Cunning one

    Before we do that, (if you see me come back to this you know there's serious typos in the last one)

    "Team building & Matchup

    Solgaleo - Solgaleo pairs well with Torkoal due Solgaleo’s problem with Darks. While Torkoal can't really flat counter them, it can force them away with its strong Fighting stab moves.
    Primal Groudon - Primal Groudon likes Torkoal’s ability to check most faster threats with Shadow Sneak as well as its ability to scare off Giratini, tho it has to be wary of the BURN from Will-O-Wisp.
    Palkia - Like Primal Groudon, Palkia has a hard time with threats like Lugia and Giratini which Torkoal handles pretty well. Palkia also checks Kyogre who's annoying for Torkoal to handle."

    I know this is just a copy-paste from Marshadow. But it's still a bad typo. The fire turtle we know and love cannot be burned nor does it have Shadow Sneak. Just keeping the credibility of Serebii in mind.
  3. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    Alolan Marowak is a Pokemon that is rather interesting. It keeps the abilities of regular Marowak but gains a new typing and has an even better movepool.

    + Fire/Ghost is a good typing with handy resistances and good STAB
    + A good movepool including Shadow Bone, Bonemerang, Flare Blitz and Rock Slide
    + The Thick Club doubles its Attack, giving it insane power
    + It has good 110 Defense
    + It has 3 good abilities

    - 80 Attack isn't much as without the Thick Club, Marowak isn't hitting very hard
    - 45 Speed is very slow. Marowak can't outspeed much outside of Trick Room
    - Alolan Marowak is hit very hard by Knock Off, having its Attack essentially halved and still taking a lot of damage
    - 4-Move Slot Syndrome is sometimes an issue
    - Its Pokedex entry is still sad

    Cursed Body: A nice enough ability with some usage that can annoy the opponent at the best of times but is not always Marowak's best choice.
    Lightning Rod: It essentially gives Marowak an Electric immunity. The Sp Attack boost won't help much with only base 50 Sp Attack but the immunity is nice
    Rock Head: Takes away the recoil on Flare Blitz which is always handy especially with only base 60 HP, but Lightning Rod is usually used instead

    Counters: Landorus T has intimidate and can deal severe damage to Marowak-A, Bulky Waters such as Quagsire and Suicune also do pretty well as do offensive water types such as Greninja, Keldeo or Mega Gyarados. Finally, Marowak's low speed means faster threats such as Gengar or Zygarde can outspeed and deal massive damage.
  4. Missingno. Master

    Missingno. Master Poison-type Trainer

    Boneheaded Strategies
    Normal Marowak@Thick Club
    Adamant/Brave nature
    Battle Armor
    252 HP/252 Attack/4 Defense
    ~Stone Edge/Rock Slide
    ~Low Kick/Brick Break/Fire Punch
    ~Thunder Punch

    Marowak is perfectly usable no matter which form it's in. The Normal Form of Marowak is familiar to us all- Bonemerang is STAB, Stone Edge, Low Kick, and Thunder Punch are for coverage. Rock Slide's an option over Stone Edge if you want to prioritize accuracy, and Brick Break can be put in over Low Kick if you want a bit more consistency. In fact, hell, if you want, Fire Punch can replace the Fighting move altogether. Your call, really.

    Item powers up Marowak. Ability stops crits. Pretty much the best it's got.

    Great Bones of Fire
    Alolan Marowak@Thick Club
    Adamant/Brave nature
    Rock Head/Lightning Rod
    252 HP/252 Attack/4 Defense
    ~Flare Blitz/Fire Punch
    ~Shadow Bone
    ~Brick Break/Low Kick

    Alolan Marowak has been seen as a significant improvement over its Kantonian counterpart, and it's not hard to see why. Interesting type combination, great STAB options, good Abilities, nice coverage... Plus, it looks really, really cool. So yeah. Shadow Bone is your Ghost STAB, no bones about it. Fire STAB, though, that depends on what Ability you want to run. If you're cool with foregoing Lightning Rod, you get the raw power of STAB Flare Blitz with zero recoil. But if that Electric immunity is too tempting for you, and you're cool with breeding up your Cubone back in ORAS, then by all means, Fire Punch. Bonemerang is for coverage, and is just a good move in general. And the Fighting move at the end, that's your call. Hell, replace it with something else entirely if that's your thing, it's just my personal recommendation because Fighting and Ghost together make for completely unresisted coverage.

    Item we already covered. Ability depends on what you want more- raw power or an Electric immunity.

    Other options:
    *Both variants of Marowak get Swords Dance. Some might see it as overkill, considering the Thick Club is like a single use of Swords Dance in held item form, but if you can squeeze it in there somewhere, sometimes there's no kill like overkill.
    *I feel like it's practically obligatory to mention Earthquake, considering they do get it, but given the choice between that and Bonemerang, sign me up for Bonemerang every single time. A 50 power move that hits twice is effectively 100 base power, same as Earthquake. Doesn't hit through Dig, but who uses that? Sure, 90% accuracy is worse than 100%, but considering this can break a Substitute and keep hitting, or effectively OHKO in direct spite of Focus Sashes or Sturdy, or even screw over anything daring enough to run Weak Armor, I consider it a fair trade-off.
    *Double-Edge is a powerful Normal-type option that works well with Rock Head, but good luck finding room for that in your moveset.
    *Alolan Marowak also gets Will-O-Wisp, always a useful move to consider.
    *One more thing- via the Virtual Console games, Cubone and Marowak do get Submission, though this is only really relevant to Alolan Marowak, since stuff transferred up from RBY always have their Hidden Abilities, so only Alolan Marowak can have Rock Head and Submission. That said, the accuracy is iffy, and not altogether mitigated by the move's power. It's only marginally stronger than Brick Break... Up to you whether you think it's worth your while.

    *Rock Head: Marowak does not take recoil damage from its attacks, other than Struggle. A normal Ability for Normal Form Marowak, but the Hidden Ability of Alolan Marowak. I don't get it either. But yeah- this sees way more use on Alolan Marowak, since it allows for recoil-free STAB Flare Blitzes. Always a plus. Regular Marowak can use this with... Double-Edge. Not quite the same significance.
    *Cursed Body: When Alolan Marowak is hit by an attack, there is a 30% chance it will disable that attack. I like this Ability, but that doesn't change the fact that it's easily the worst of Alolan Marowak's three Abilities. Very situational. Not saying it's not useful, I'm just saying everything else it gets is even better. Alolan Marowak only.
    *Lightning Rod: When taking an Electric attack, instead of having its usual effect, it instead merely increases Marowak's Sp. Atk by 1 stage. Absolutely useless on Normal Marowak, considering it's already immune to Electric, and doesn't give a Raticate's *** about its Sp. Atk, but Alolan Marowak does very much appreciate the Electric immunity. Available on both kinds of Marowak.
    *Battle Armor: Normal Marowak's Hidden Ability. Attacks used against Marowak cannot become critical hits. Probably the best Normal Marowak has to offer, at least until it gets some relevant recoil moves, but hey- no crits, can't really complain there. Normal Marowak only.

    Marowak relies on its bulk to stay alive (and I use the term "bulk" loosely- outside of a decent Defense stat, its defenses are nothing to write home about), so some of your team should be devoted to helping keep Marowak alive. Wish support wouldn't go amiss. Tapu Bulu or something with Grassy Terrain could temporarily mitigate the practically mandatory lack of Leftovers. Alternatively, you could go with either Trick Room support or a good Baton Passer like Eevee or Scolipede, make it so Marowak can actually outspeed stuff.

    Marowak relies on its huge Attack stat, which in turn relies on the Thick Club. One thing that comes to mind is Mandibuzz- bulky, resists Ghost, outright immune to Ground, and has access to Knock Off, which basically renders Marowak useless. Not for nothing the Pokédex calls them natural enemies. Also, as the bulk of Marowak's, well, bulk, lies on the physical side of things, a good, solid special attacker (ideally with amazing Defense) can come in and screw with it. Weezing can come in on much of what Marowak can do (up to and including total Bonemerang immunity), maybe throw a Will-O-Wisp in its face if it's Normal Marowak, bombard the Alolan Marowak with Dark Pulse, just give it a hard time in general.

    Marowak was always a concept I liked, but the Alolan Marowak made it even better IMO. Now if only they fixed its movepool so Alolan Marowak could actually learn Shadow Bone at a level at which one can actually GET Alolan Marowak... Seriously, who approved that level-up movepool? Shadow Bone literally ONE LEVEL before Cubone can even try to evolve? What were they thinking? WERE they even thinking? Ahem- but I digress- point being, both Marowak are awesome and I love 'em. :)

    Prediction for next week:
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  5. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 VGC Master

    I don't think Alolan Marowak has access to Fire Punch yet since it's only available through the ORAS move tutors
  6. Missingno. Master

    Missingno. Master Poison-type Trainer

    You forget one thing- Cubone gets these moves via move tutor as well. Breed the Cubone in ORAS, teach it all the tutor moves you think it'll need, transfer it to S/M, and evolve it, and there you have it.
  7. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Mutilating Marowak

    True Counters to Marowak are few and far in between. While yes, with molasses speed and poor defenses (outside of an admittedly impressive Base 110 DEF) it is not really difficult to OHKO. The problem is coming in safely. With Thick Club, Marowak's hitting power rivals legendaries like Groundon, meaning those that can claim to come in safely are more often than not lying. Pyukumuku is 3HKOd by Shadow Bone and can use Recover and Curse to setup on Alolan Marowak (normal Marowak with STAB Bonemerang/Earthquake can 2HKO it). but will lose to those that can setup Substitute. Skarmory can take care of Marowak with ease, not taking significant damage from any of its moves (barring STAB Ground after a Roost...) but will lose to the Alolan form's STAB fire moves. Tanky Mega Aggron can take on any Alolan Marowak set without Flare Blitz, and 2HKO back with Earthquake/Ice Punch, but normal Marowak will usually 2HKO with its Ground STAB. Bulky Unaware Quagsire is 3HKOd by Alolan Marowak, but is usually 2HKOd by Marowak's STAB Ground Moves, but can reliably 2HKO most Marowak with Scald.

    As noted, Marowak is near impossible to wall, with even several of the games most powerful Walls being 2-3HKOd by it. But this is entirely due to its hold item the thick club. So any item affecting Shenanigans will turn Marowak into a near nonissue. Knock Off is the most prevalent, and has the added bonus of doing severe, if not ouright KOing Alolan Marowak. Tricking an Item (even a Choice Band!) will see a noticeable drop in power and also make it more manageable.

    All those threats about Alolan Marowak's power aside, if you can get a free switch in, it is not difficult to take out at all. Poor speed, numerous common weaknesses (both forms) and lackluster defenses make it near pointless to list everything that can revenge kill Marowak (as there are too many).
  8. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Alolan Marowak is one of the best pokémon in the metagame right now, both in doubles and singles, benefiting a lot from being a reliable counter to a lot of things. 9 resistances or immunities (10 with Lightningrod) combined with decent bulk, decent coverage, and an insane attack stat is just very good.

    Alolan Marowak @ Thick Club
    Brave nature
    Ability: Lightningrod / Rock Head
    252 HP, 252 Atk, 4 Sp.Def
    -Shadow Bone
    -Flare Blitz

    This is what I've been running in Battle Spot doubles and it works pretty well in Trick Room. If it comes in after Landorus-Therian (so avoiding Intimidate) it can OHKO with Flare Blitz. With a bit of prediction it can switch into its Superpower, and if Trick Room is up it can even somewhat switch in when Landorus uses Earthquake, since Marowak will survive thanks to the spread damage drop-off (although it'll still take quite a bit of damage, and if Landorus attacks with Tectonic Rage you're gone). With max attack Marowak also has a fair chance to get a OHKO on Mega Charizard Y with Shadow Bone or Flare Blitz (in sun). Earthquake is spread damage and is viable if you've got partners that are immune like Vikavolt or Telepathy Oranguru. I run it with Lightningrod to avoid damage from Vikavolt's Discharge, but the ability choice depends on the team. If you've got team members with moves like Volt Switch or Thunderbolt (for instance Tapu Koko) Rock Head is usually better because Lightningrod also absorbs your teammate's electrical attacks.

    Bonemerang is a fair alternative to Earthquake, although single-target and with less accuracy. It doesn't get the damage reduction from Grassy Terrain which is nice.

    Overall, Alolan Marowak is a bit of a one-trick pony. It doesn't have much room for variety, it'll pretty much always run Shadow Bone + Flare Blitz + ground coverage + Protect in doubles with a Thick Club, but that doesn't make it less dangerous. That boat-load of resistances to common types like fire, fairy, fighting, normal, ice, and poison is hard to pass up, and Lightningrod adds an electrical immunity to that. Marowak just switches in so easily despite having five weaknesses. It has a quite some bulk, sufficient to reliably survive super effective spread moves like Rock Slide and Earthquake, and it just hits so damned hard that Flare Blitz often OHKO's foes that do not resist it. Plus it matches up pretty well against most of the popular stuff, walling stuff like Tapu Koko and Pheromosa without any issue (unless Pheromosa runs a Hidden Power type specifically to hit Marowak, which it usually doesn't), plus being incredibly threatening to Tapu Bulu (which gets destroyed by Flare Blitz) and Tapu Lele (which gets destroyed by Shadow Bone) is neat too.

    Partners: Trick Room setters. Mimikyu shares a Ghost weakness but can cover Dark types with Play Rough. Porygon2 is always viable, and it can threaten Garchomp and Landorus-Therian with Ice Beam and water types with Thunderbolt (run Rock Head on Marowak if you rely on Thunderbolt to not mess up Porygon2's attack). Vikavolt is a fair partner too. Vikavolt can use electrical attacks to threaten water types, uses Bug Buzz to cover Dark types, and also benefits from Trick Room, although make sure to use Discharge if you run Lightningrod. Vikavolt is also immune to Earthquake, although it shares a Rock weakness. Torkoal is also an interesting partner, setting up sun for Marowak to abuse and outslowing Wishiwashi in Trick Room to hit it with Solar Beam. Kartana is not suitable for Trick Room, but in terms of typing has amazing coverage together with Marowak, as it covers water, ground, and rock types with Leaf Blade and Dark types with Sacred Sword.
  9. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Active Member

    In last week's POTW entry for Torkoal, someone made a mistake. In the second move set listed, the move Roar was included. Torkoal can't learn Roar! Same goes for Energy Ball.
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  10. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 VGC Master

    Sorry I assumed you were talking about VGC since you listed a Brave nature, which should really only be chosen over Adamant if you're running Trick Room, but you are correct.
  11. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    I think Flare Blitz is overall better, the power difference with Fire Punch is immense (and thawing out freezes is situationally useful)

    As counters, Hydreigon works against any Alolan Marowak lacking Fighting coverage, as it survives Flare Blitz and KO's with Dark Pulse
  12. ampfire101

    ampfire101 Well-Known Member

    As far as singles go, I'm really impressed of the jump in tiers Marowak made with the new type change. But I'm here to talk VGC 17! With all the Tapu Kokos running around (most of which these days run Electrium Z), Lightning Rod is a great ability and is Marowak-A's go to ability. Of the three Fire types this season, Arcanine is the most used with its useful ability and offensive presence outside of Trick Room. Torkoal is more used if you're looking for a Special attacker but keep in mind that Torkoal needs Lilligant and a TR user to be viable. Marowak doesn't even need TR to be usable! Most players opt for a offensive spread of 252 Atk/252 HP/4 SpD with either Brave or Adamant nature depending on whether or not your team needs a faster mon under TR. However, in preparation for the North American International Championship this summer, I found a bulky offensive spread of 252 HP/124 Atk/132 SpD and positive attack nature, which will always survive a Timid Nihilego unboosted Power Gem and always OHKO Celesteela as long as Marowak doesn't have any Intimidates on it or has its Thick Club removed. The four moves Marowak carries in VGC will more than likely be Flare Blitz, Shadow Bone, Bonemerang, and Protect. It will always have to carry a Thick Club because without it, it can be ignored much of the time. While Marowak doesn't need TR to be a good Lightning Rod user, just understand that it will usually be moving last without it. It can be a good partner to Porygon2 and a good counter to opposing Trick Room. Water types like Gyarados and Tapu Fini appreciate Marowak's ability to redirect Electric type attacks, which in turn can threaten Garchomp with Ice Fang and Moonblast respectively. The bulky version of Marowak can be great alongside Garchomp with its ability to beat Tapu Lele, Ninetales, Vanilluxe, and Celesteela, which in turn can threaten Arcanine. Worlds is coming up very soon, so be sure to give Marowak a thought, and good luck!
  13. Rocxidi

    Rocxidi ס₪₪₪§€ΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞ7

    Just a reminder that Pokebank allows Marowak to learn Detect. Useful considering Alolan Muk carries Imprison every now and then.
  14. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Forgive me if I am out of place, but Alolan Muk with Imprison is a worry how exactly? Alolan Muk can't even learn Imprison. Even if it could, the only move that they share that either would commonly carry is Fire Punch (which if transferred would be only on normal Muk). Flare Blitz and a Ground Type move will wreck Alolan Muk. If you are advertising Detect over Protect, why are you running eitheron Alolan Marowak? Alolan Muk is only a worry because it is a Dark type with STAB Knock Off and Pursuit which will 1-2HKO Alolan Marowak. Are you talking about Embargo? That would be troublesome for Alolan Marowak, but again so is STAB Knock Off.
  15. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 VGC Master

    Imprison is an egg move for both Muk forms. It's not found on most Alolan Muk, but people do run it to shut down other Alolan Muk since they ALL typically run Poison Jab, Knock Off, and Protect. Losing the ability to use Protect, despite being a rare occurrence, does lead some people to run Detect on Pokemon like Kartana, justtttttt in case you happen to run into it.
  16. Rocxidi

    Rocxidi ס₪₪₪§€ΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞΞ7

    Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Adamant Nature
    - Shadow Bone
    - Fire Punch / Flare Blitz
    - Swords Dance
    - Stealth Rock

    This is the best OU set outside of Trick Room. Marowak checks a ton of threats in the tier such as Tapu Koko, Magearna (though you have to be wary of Z Fleur Cannon), Zapdos, etc, while being able to dismantle most stall staples. It's an easy switchin to Ferrothorn as yo will force it out, giving you the opportunity to either set up Rocks, bone Tapu Fini on the switch in, or double switch into your Lando T check.

    Marowak-Alola @ Thick Club
    Ability: Lightning Rod
    EVs: 252 HP / 188 Atk / 68 SpD
    Adamant Nature
    - Flare Blitz
    - Shadow Bone
    - Bonemerang
    - Detect

    This one's for VGC. Marowak is great considering the popularity of Tapu Koko, Kartana, Celesteela, etc. The special defence investment allows it to live a raw Psychic from Tapu Lele in terrain while still hitting like a truck. Detect / Protect is almost mandatory in Doubles, and Detect is a far better option as it won't get disabled by Muk's Imprison. It also allows Marowak to stay healthy while its partner sets up Trick Room, just make sure to run Brave and 0 Speed IVs.
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2017
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