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Community POTW #050

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Nov 5, 2017.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    Solgaleo is my 3rd favourite legendary of all time (only behind Reshiram and Zekrom). It's got a cool typing, great stats, greater movepool, pretty good ability, what's not to love about it?

    + 137 Attack is certainly great
    + Also having 137 HP means that it can take many hits on the physical side with a solid 109 Defense
    + 113 Sp Attack is usable but Solgaleo is almost always gonna run physical
    + Full Metal Body gives it an immunity to Intimidate etc. Not very common in Ubers but very much so in doubles
    + Being part Steel type gives it lots of resistances
    + Has a good movepool
    + It can counter Xerneas. End of.
    + It's a steel lion! That is dope as it gets!

    - 89 Sp Defense certainly isn't bad, especially with 137 HP, but for a Uber legend, it isn't great
    - 97 Speed also isn't that bad, but is outsped with a lot of counters such as Arceus and Blaziken
    - It has 4 Weaknesses all of which are very common
    - It's ability can certainly help at times, but can also be useless at times
    - It faces a fair bit of competition. Mega Metagross has the same typing, but better stats, a better movepool and more speed
    - I hate it when people don't understand why it isn't a fire type

    Full Metal Body: Essentially, it's clear body but it can't be ignored with Mold Breaker, Teravolt or Turboblaze. Not bad. Especially as a physical attacker, intimidate is very annoying. But also situational at times unlike Lunala's Shadow Shield. Also, Metagross, as I mentioned, also has Clear Body (an ability with the same effect) before Mega Evolving and the same typing. Hmmm.

    Counters: Primal Groudon is your best Solgaleo counter. Solgaleo can't do much in the way of any damage to Primal Groudon, while Solgaleo can be 2HKO by a Precipice Blades. Aegislash is fine if Solgaleo doesn't have Flare Blitz or Earthquake otherwise the sword is dead, but can safely do good damage to Solgaleo, Mega Sableye can burn Solgaleo and take hits pretty well, Ho-Oh is also very good, being able to cripple Solgaleo with a Sacred Fire (and maybe burn) while the lion can't do much back (Ho-Oh can also heal it with Regenerator) and finally, Complete Zygarde can shrug off any hit and can deal good damage back with a Thousand Arrows.
  3. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't say Mega Metagross is better. Sure Metagross is faster, but Solgaleo can run items and has arguably better STAB moves and setup, as well as recovery.

    Solgaleo @ Normalium Z
    Adamant nature
    Ability: Full Metal Body
    252 Attack, 252 Speed, 4 HP
    -Sunsteel Strike
    -Flame Charge
    -Zen Headbutt / Earthquake / Crunch / Stone Edge

    Sunsteel Strike is your primary STAB move and is found on pretty much all Solgaleo sets. It hits incredibly hard and ignores Multiscale, Disguise, and Sturdy. Z-Splash is your setup move, giving you 150% more damage in a single turn of setup. Flame Charge is an additional setup opportunity, giving this set a bit of a double-dance kind of effect. After Flame Charge with this investment Solgaleo outruns max speed base 150s like Deoxys, Mega Aerodactyl, and Mega Alakazam. A bit less speed investment and more into bulk is also possible. Finally there's a coverage move. Zen Headbutt is STAB and hits incredibly hard in Psychic Terrain, especially useful if you've got Tapu Lele in your team (which also blocks Marshadow's Shadow Sneak), Earthquake hits opposing Steel types like Dialga and Heatran as well as Aegislash, Solgaleo, Zekrom, Reshiram, and Primal Groudon. Crunch also hits Solgaleo and Aegislash, but also hits Lunala and Giratina. Finally, Stone Edge is an option to hit Ho-Oh and Yveltal hard.

    Full Metal Body is your only ability option, but it's pretty good. Blocking stat drops is always nice, especially on physical pokémon like Solgaleo that are otherwise prone to Intimidate. It also prevents Aegislash from dropping your attack with King's Shield, as well as some other stat drops like Snarl, String Shot, and side-effects from moves like Seed Flare, Shadow Ball, Crunch, and Psychic.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  4. dementeddurian

    dementeddurian Well-Known Member

    Does anyone remember the MegaMence combo discussed a while back on PotW? Basically you can do the same with Solgaleo. Instead of using Bulldoze on a Clear Body Metagross, you can do the same with Solgaleo as it has Full Metal Body. Solgaleo has better stats than standard Metagross, so it might be a better option in Ubers.
  5. Gardellade

    Gardellade Member

    Adamant 252 Attack/252 Speed/4 SpDef
    ~Sunsteel Strike
    ~Earthquake/Flare Blitz
    ~Stone Edge/Flare Blitz
    Solgaleo has an excellent defensive typing that allows it to pressure a lot of popular Ubers. Max Speed is necessary to outspeed the plethora of base 95's, such as Ho-Oh and the Primals. Sunsteel Strike is your STAB option that has decent neutral coverage, specifically hitting Xerneas hard. Earthquake hits Primal Groudon and various steel types hard, while Stone Edge hits the likes of Ho-Oh and Salamence Harder than any other move. Flare Blitz is also a coverage move to consider so you don't get walled by Celesteela and Skarmory. Toxic is used to cripple a lot of Pokemon such as Arceus forms, Giratina, and Lugia.

    Xerneas is so influential that this thing runs a set specifically to check it
    Solgaleo with Leftovers
    Adamant 248 Attack/252 SpDef/8 Attack
    ~Sunsteel Strike
    ~Morning Sun
    ~Earthquake/Flare Blitz/Stone Edge
    By investing fully into Special Defense, Solgaleo can take one hit while at full health from GeoXern and retaliate back with a hard Sunsteel Strike. Morning Sun is a form of recover so Solgaleo can get healthy. Toxic cripples pokemon that could switch into Solgaleo. The last coverage move depends on what other pokemon you want to hit. Earthquake gets the OHKO on Mega Gengar, which Sunsteel Strike may not. Flare Blitz hits the majority of steel types harder. Stone Edge hits Ho-Oh which otherwise walls this set.

    Other Options
    Zen Headbutt
    Wild Charge

    Checks and Counters
    Zygarde-C takes nothing from any of Solgaleo's attacks and can hit it back with Thousand Arrows. Ghost and Dark types also give Solgaleo a lot of trouble. Yveltal and Giratina specifically are troublesome for Solgaleo to deal with. Yveltal outspeeds and hits it hard with Dark Pulse, while Giratina can take any hit and retaliate with its ghost STAB. Both don't like getting hit by toxic however, and Yveltal can't take repeated Stone Edges or Sunsteel Strikes.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  6. GeeGee

    GeeGee Late to the party

    +137/107/89 bulk is solid
    +Psychic/Steel typing gives 9 resistances and 1 immunity
    +137/113/97 offenses allow it to hit relatively hard and outspeed certain threats such as Primal Groudon, Ho-oh, Zygarde-C and Speed tie with Lunala
    +Fantastic Movepool including Sunsteel strike, Zen headbutt, Flare Blitz, Earthquake, Crunch, Wild charge, Stone edge, and more
    +Great Ability in Full metal Body prevents stat drops from intimidate and sticky web, and even isn't blocked by Mold breaker (or mold breaker variants)
    +Morning sun gives solid recovery
    +Special Z-crystal gives a unique Z-move

    -It's 4 weaknesses are very common in Ubers, Namely Mega Gengar and Darkrai
    -97 speed gets outsped by a huge portion of the tier
    -Steel/Psychic isn't the best offensive typing, and struggles against walls


    Full Metal Body: Prevents Solgaleo's stats from being lowered by it's opponent. This prevents Solgaleo from being crippled by Intimidate or Sticky web, and it continues to function even if an opponent has Mold breaker, Turboblaze or Teravolt as an ability.


    Ability: Full Metal Body
    Nature: Adamant
    EV's: 252HP/4SpDef/252Spe
    Hold Item: Choice Band/Solganium-Z
    -Sunsteel Strike
    -Zen Headbutt/Stone Edge
    -Flare Blitz/Earthquake
    -Crunch/Wild Charge

    Sunsteel strike is the main Stab and can be upgraded to Searing Sunraze Smash with its special Z-crystal in USUM. Zen Headbutt is the secondary stab, hitting Fighting and Poison types super effectively. Stone Edge hits Ho-oh, while Flare blitz hits Genesect, Mega Metagross and other Solgaleo. Earthquake hits Primal Groudon, Dialga, and Zekrom. Crunch hits Psychic and Ghost types, especially Lunala. Wild Charge hits Lugia, Yveltal and Primal Kyogre.

    Other Options
    Electrium Z: Z-Wild charge gets the drop on Kyogre, as well as Ho-oh and Yveltal, and Bulky Arceus Variants
    Assault Vest: Assault vest patches up Solgaleo's shoddy Special defense, improving its matchups against special threats like Mega Gengar and Lunala
    Toxic: Most walls in Ubers have humongous health pools, and Toxic is a great way to ensure they don't stick around forever, especially if Solgaleo can't even scratch them
  7. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Remember that for Lugia Sunsteel Strike is better against full-health Multiscale Lugia than Wild Charge, Crunch, or Stone Edge. At +3 attack Sunsteel Strike has a good chance of a OHKO on Lugia, which none of its other moves can do. Especially useful if Lugia goes for the outspeed and uses Roost to go to full health:

    +3 252+ Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Lugia: 193-228 (90.6 - 107%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
    +3 252+ Atk Solgaleo Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Multiscale Lugia: 129-152 (60.5 - 71.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Being able to OHKO a bulky pokémon like Lugia in a single neutral hit is a testament to how hard Z-Splash Solgaleo hits. Some other calculations:

    +3 252+ Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Giratina-Altered: 208-246 (80.9 - 95.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
    +3 252+ Atk Solgaleo Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Primal Groudon: 160-190 (77.2 - 91.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Crunch has a small chance of a OHKO on Giratina-Altered. Solgaleo hits hard. Really hard.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  8. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    I see your point but my thinking was that Megagross's higher speed and while Solgaleo's movepool is amazing, I'd say Mega Metagross has a better movepool. USUM could change everything but that's just my opinion.
  9. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    I disagree on the movepool. Both get Zen Headbutt and Earthquake, Solgaleo gets Sunsteel Strike while Metagross gets Meteor Mash (less accurate, less powerful), Solgaleo gets Stone Edge while Metagross only gets Rock Slide, Solgaleo gets Wild Charge while Metagross gets Thunderpunch, and Solgaleo also gets Flare Blitz and Crunch, for which Metagross gets no equivalents. Metagross gets Ice Punch, but outside of Salamence, Landorus, Zygarde, and Garchomp it doesn't really hit all that much, with Meteor Mash hitting Mega Rayquaza nearly as hard (and Mega Rayquaza outclasses Mega Salamence in a lot of ways, like less weaknesses, priority access, more damage, ability to run items, etc). And Metagross gets Hammer Arm, which nullifies its speed advantage, is quite inaccurate, and doesn't really add all that much coverage that Solgaleo would want anyway. Aside from Ice Punch, I don't really see anything, outside of maybe Agility (for which Solgaleo gets Flame Charge anyway) which Metagross really has over Solgaleo in terms of movepool.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  10. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    Hammer Arm? Grass Knot? Iron Head Flinches? Bullet Punch? I see what you mean though.
  11. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Hammer Arm isn't really a move that hits a lot more than Earthquake, Flare Blitz, and Sunsteel Strike already do, and the speed lowering effect is quite damning. I can't really think of anything extra it adds to your coverage, aside from maybe Normal Arceus, Snorlax, or Chansey.
    As for Iron Head, Solgaleo also gets Iron Head if you want to go down that road. Granted, it's not as fast (except if you run Scarf or set up with Flame Charge), but still, it's there.
    Grass Knot, what will it cover? Groudon? Most players use Groudon as a Primal which removes the grass weakness. Against Kyogre it's not going to do that much damage, Kyogre has a lot of special bulk and Metagross' Sp.Atk isn't that great compared to all these legendaries, especially without much investment, moves like Thunderpunch or Wild Charge are going to do better against Kyogre's weaker defensive side.
    Bullet Punch I guess can be useful though. But it's situational, and if you're running Tapu Lele support it's not going to hit much because Psychic Terrain blocks it against any grounded targets. Overall I think Solgaleo is simply much more useful than Mega Metagross. Mega Metagross is strong no doubt, but it's no legendary. It does fine in the regular matchups with banlists, but I think it's mostly outclassed in the free battles.
  12. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    Remember, Mega Metagross has higher Attack with Tough Claws meaning these moves all get boosted. The fighting coverage helps against normal types that Solgaleo may struggle against. Primal Kyogre is pretty heavy so it can take a fair bit from a Tough Claws boosted Grass Knot, unlike Solgaleo which struggles against certain Primal Kyogre. Priority is always nice and 110 speed is pretty big over 97, especially in Ubers. I guess that you could always give Solgaleo a life orb but having better bulk, speed and attack may make Megagross better. I don't know. If you think Solgaleo is better in those areas, then that is up to you.
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  13. xenonim2013

    xenonim2013 Member

    Solgaleo is one of the unique legendary Pokemon which have an evolution line and it is 1st time introduce evolution line for legendary Pokemon. With a good dual typing which is steel and psychic, Solgaleo have quite decent bulk. However, despite Solgaleo is an legendary Pokemon, it,s speed and sp def is not legendary at all. This, mean Solgaleo can easily be shut down by powerful stab Z-move. So, move like Never Ending Nightmare and Blackhole Eclipse can easily OHKO Solgaleo without any problem.


    Sunsteel Strike
    Zen Headbutt
    Earthquake / Stone Endge

    EV: 252 attack, 252 speed, 6 Sp def
    Nature: Adamant / Jolly
    Item: Choice Scarf

    This is my recommend Move set. Although this move set is not the best but at least have it usefulness in the single battle. Sunsteel Strike and Zen Headbutt is your primary stab move which allow Solgaleo to deliver a devastating damage to those that weak against psychic and steel. Earthquake is use to counter fire type Pokemon. However your can replace Earthquake with Stone Edge but low in accuracy. Stone Edge is good especially to counter other legendary Pokemon that bring big threat to Solgaleo especially Moltress and Ho Oh. Crunch is mainly used to counter ghost type Pokemon. Adamant will be a good nature since it will guarantee Solgaleo to hit very hard but it your get Jolly is not bad at all. Choice Scarf will be your item of choice, allow Solgaleo to out speed a lot of Pokemon and ensure Solgaleo always attack 1st. With this Move Set, the only thing your need to worried is a dark type Pokemon. Good luck and have a try.
  14. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    But which normal types are there that Solgaleo could struggle with? I mean, against offensive Arceus for instance:

    +3 252+ Atk Solgaleo Sunsteel Strike vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 208-246 (106.6 - 126.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    Against Primal Kyogre:

    +3 252+ Atk Solgaleo Wild Charge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 318-376 (180.6 - 213.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +3 252+ Atk Solgaleo Zen Headbutt vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 211-250 (119.8 - 142%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    While Mega Metagross does this:

    252 Atk Tough Claws Mega-Metagross Thunder Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Primal Kyogre: 134-158 (76.1 - 89.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    0 SpA Tough Claws Mega-Metagross Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Primal Kyogre: 82-98 (46.5 - 55.6%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO

    252 Atk Tough Claws Mega-Metagross Hammer Arm vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 138-164 (70.7 - 84.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Tough Claws Mega-Metagross Meteor Mash vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 93-111 (47.6 - 56.9%) -- 87.1% chance to 2HKO

    Thunder Punch hits Primal Kyogre a lot harder than Grass Knot does, and the difference is even more pronounced on a Sp.Atk lowering nature. Of course this comparison is after Solgaleo sets up, but that's beside the point. Solgaleo can set up to +3 in a single turn and then become incredibly destructive. Metagross has no real attack boosting aside from Hone Claws. Grass Knot just doesn't add much for Metagross when Thunder Punch hits Kyogre harder. And Mega Metagross has simply nothing to threaten Primal Groudon with, it doesn't get a Tough Claws boost to Earthquake, which really dampens the damage output. Primal Groudon just flat-out walls and destroys Mega Metagross with ease, and Primal Groudon is very popular.

    As for the bulk, with no investments Mega Metagross has slightly better physical bulk than Solgaleo, on the order of a few %, but Solgaleo has significantly better special bulk due to its significantly higher HP stat. And Solgaleo can run Morning Sun if it wants to for recovery and run items like Leftovers or Sitrus Berry to boost its bulk.

    I'll give Metagross the speed advantage, there's really no denying that. Mega Metagross with Agility needs pretty much to outrun everything unboosted. Adamant Solgaleo reaches 223 speed after Flame Charge or with a Scarf with full speed investment. That speed ties with max speed Pheromosa and outspeeds base 150s and below with a speed boosting nature, which is pretty much everything unboosted aside from Deoxys-Speed. It also depends on what you want to outrun. Outspeeding base 150 is nice to outrun Deoxys-Attack, but you could run less to go for outspeeds on Mega Mewtwo Y or even lower. Mega Metagross on the other hand already reaches 260 speed after Agility without any investment, which is enough to outrun Deoxys-Speed, although it needs some investment to outrun faster scarfers like Scarf Greninja or Scarf Darkrai (although those Scarf pokémon probably won't run max speed with a speed boosting nature). Needing less speed investment means Metagross is effectively more bulky because it can invest all those EVs in its defensive stats.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
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