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Community POTW #055

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Dec 3, 2017.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. Zarxiel

    Zarxiel Active Member

    If I can, I want to write a set that I think is really interesting.

    -Shadow Sneak/Sacred Sword
    -Shadow Claw
    -Iron Head
    -King's Shield
    Item: Weakness Policy
    EV: 252 HP, 252 Atk, 6 Def sp
    Nature: Brave

    The player can choose Shadow Sneak for have a priority or Sacred Sword for counter the Dark-types, since is really good move.
  3. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    Aegislash. The most unpredictable Pokemon ever. Will it attack? Giving itself scary high offensive stats? Or will it King Shield? Protecting it, giving it high defenses and dropping any opponent's attack by 2 stages on contact? This thing is cruel!

    +150 Duel offenses in Blade Form. This is the same as regular deoxys; which is amazing. The 50 offenses in Shield form don't matter as it will never user them.
    +150 Duel defenses in Shield Form. This is also amazing as Aegislash can take many hits in shield form. Blade Form though...
    +A massive movepool with moves such as King's Shield, Shadow Ball, Flash Cannon, Wide Guard, Shadow Sneak, Iron Head, Sacred Sword, Shadow Claw, Destiny Bond, even Head Smash!
    +Stance Change makes it so unpredictable. You never know if it'll be using King Shield or an attack
    +Steel/Ghost is a great typing. You have the most combined resistances and immunities of any type combo.
    +It's got a great design to back up all of these great features. Who doesn't like a sword Pokemon?

    -While 50 Duel offenses in Shield Form don't matter, the 50 defenses in Blade Form do. In Blade Form, it can fall to even neutral hits so getting greedy with attacking may lead to problems.
    -60 HP in both forms is pretty bad, making the Shield Form not as bulky as it seems and making the Blade Form even frailer
    -60 Speed is also pretty bad. This could be considered a good thing sometimes as it doesn't change to its blade form until it attacks, meaning that any faster opponents will hit its shield form (assuming you're in it) and King's Shield happens before any attacking goes, but it still means that Aegislash can't outspeed what it may want to.
    -Its typing also gives it 4 very common weaknesses. Not even Shield form can save you against those...
    -It's one of the most annoying things ever. If you bring Aegislash, be prepared for insults

    Stance Change: And this is why Aegislash was banned to Ubers and is loathed in other metagames. Being able to swap between high offenses and high defenses is outright broken. About to be attacked? King Shield! Do some crazy damage? Attack! This is one of the most unpredictable Pokemon ever. And this is why.

    Counters: Aegislash isn't as hard to counter as I've made it seem. King's Shield doesn't protect against Status so you can still affect the sword through that. Taunt prevents Aegislash from using King Shield meaning that it can get stuck in Blade Form, making it easy to take out through its low Blade defenses. Also, really powerful attacks can deal more damage than its Shield Form can take, getting Aegislash low on HP. It's low speed can also be an issue to work around as well. Theoretically, Aegislash can range from being completely useless to completely devastating. Prevent King Shield and it's not very hard from there.
  4. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Aegislash is pretty powerful, although it always suffers from a lack of coverage or power. King's Shield is a given which only leaves 3 more slots for it to do everything else, like setup or attack, and it has little coverage outside of its STAB moves and Sacred Sword. Aegislash also relies heavily on prediction, a wrong prediction and using King's Shield can give an opponent the opportunity to get a free setup, and even Shield form can't really take boosted moves all that well. Using King's Shield while Charizard X goes for Dragon Dance can be devastating and lead to your entire team getting swept. It's a pokémon which can be powerful, but it is tricky to use and can get taken advantage of. Special attackers like Mega Charizard Y don't mind the attack drop from King's Shield at all, and Mega Charizard Y easily OHKOs even the Shield form with Flamethrower, and has a solid chance of getting a KO with Heat Wave in doubles. Aegislash can utterly wall some pokémon like Pheromosa, but it's far from unstoppable.

    Aegislash can run both physical and special, but pretty much never runs both at the same time. It just doesn't have the moveslots and lacks coverage to take advantage of it. Physical gets priority with Shadow Sneak and can set up Swords Dance, not to mention getting Sacred Sword, while special gets better STAB with Flash Cannon and Shadow Ball.

    Aegislash @ Figy Berry
    Brave nature
    Ability: Stance Change
    252 HP, 252 Attack, 4 Def
    -King's Shield
    -Swords Dance
    -Sacred Sword
    -Shadow Sneak

    Physical Aegislash. It can set up Swords Dance in Shield form and Figy Berry helps keep its health up while setting up and attacking. Aegislash can't really sweep, it must continually take hits while attacking because it's so slow, so Figy Berry helps it get a bit more survivability. Once it has a few Swords Dances active it can try to go on the offensive, either with priority Shadow Sneak or the more powerful Sacred Sword. Iron Head is also an option, but Sacred Sword gives unresisted neutral coverage and gets through opponents that try to go for setup themselves as it ignores Evasion and Defence boosts. There are some pokémon that trouble this. Haze Toxapex resists Sacred Sword and can remove its Swords Dance boosts, and hit it over and over with Scald until it gets lucky and finds a burn, while using Recover to stay healthy. Mega Charizard Y threatens the OHKO with Flamethrower and Aegislash needs two Swords Dances before it can KO with Shadow Sneak, two setup turns Charizard isn't going to just give away for free.

    Toxapex is one of the safest switches in to Aegislash, resisting Sacred Sword and Steel STAB, and it can easily stall any variant out with Recover as long as it has Haze to remove Swords Dance, it can just wait almost indefinitely until it finds that burn which will give that timer and nerf to its damage. Soak+Toxic variants of Toxapex can just poison Aegislash and take it down that way. Amoonguss is also a fairly safe switch in, resisting Sacred Sword and having enough bulk to survive almost anything it has. Amoonguss can hit Aegislash with Spore, and because Amoonguss is slower it has the chance to put it to sleep in Blade Form too, in which case Aegislash is pretty much done unless it gets lucky with the sleep turns (as in, sleeps one turn while Amoonguss switches, and then immediately wake up into King's Shield, and even in that case, Amoonguss is still there to try again).
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  5. zecapau

    zecapau Member

    Reminding one of the most unnexpected VGC Aegislash counters: Probopass.
    Movesets than don't carry Sacred Sword will be helpless against it. You cannot switch out due to Magnet Pull and once switching to offensive stance, Probopass will shrug anything (not named Sacred Sword) and then proceed to KO with Earth Power.

    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  6. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 VGC Master

    It's definitely a cool idea because you don't see Probopass often, but there's good reason for not seeing it often.

    252+ SpA Probopass Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Blade: 134-158 (80.2 - 94.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    Probopass can't even OHKO it in attack form (and they often run more SpD than that), and what else exactly does it do other than that in doubles (other than maybe Wide Guard?)? With the introduction of z moves, Aegislash can 2HKO Probopass as well (and the ghostium z is the most common item on Battle Spot). You're much better off using a number of other checks to it since things like Heatran will actually help you in other ways. This idea could be useful in a league format or something like that, but there's even better Magnet Pull users like Magnezone who can help in more ways.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  7. zecapau

    zecapau Member

    Surprise, almost nobody can OHKO it in shield form. All you need to do is to wait for Aegislash to change stance to attack.

    You're forgetting that Probopass can OHKO in return with Groundium-Z after Aegislash uses its Z-move.

    For Magnet Pull users, Magnezone is faster than Aegislash, so you'll be facing shield stance most of the time (unlike Probopass, who is slower), and this is crutial for Aegislash, as being hit while on shield stance will activate Weakness Policy. Be careful.

    And, like you said, Probopass has a better defensive movepool, having stuff like Wide Guard, Stealth Rock and Pain Split (in addition to what both have like Volt Switch, Thunder Wave and Toxic). Magnezone helps? Offensively yes. But on what the supportive term "help" means, not quite. Unless you're one of the guys who spell "There's no better defense than going offensive!", otherwise you're trying to pull "in more ways" over a shallow movepool.

    In the end, both Magnet Pull Magnezone and Probopass are counters. Although Magnezone does it more offensively while Probopass does it more defensively.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  8. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Yeah, Probopass is really meh, I'd say there are more common pokémon in doubles that can deal with it. Mega Charizard Y is very common and just destroys it with its fire STAB, Flamethrower getting a OHKO even against the shield form. Against physical variants Torkoal works pretty well, Sacred Sword dealing roughly 30% damage while Torkoal deals over 80% damage back with Flamethrower against the shield form (Fire Blast is a OHKO), and because Torkoal is slower Torkoal can strike Aegislash in its blade form if it decides to attack. If Aegislash decides to try and set up Swords Dance instead Torkoal simply destroys it even in shield form. Garchomp gets an easy 2KO with Earthquake against the shield form, although it doesn't like taking special Aegislash which has a chance to 2KO as well. Hippowdon is a bit similar to Torkoal in that is does very well against physical Aegislash, and because Earthquake doesn't make contact it's not as afraid of King's Shield either. Defensive Hippowdon even survives +6 Sacred Sword, and Hippowdon shouldn't ever let Aegislash get that high with its access to Roar regardless, although Hippowdon isn't all that common in doubles. Amoonguss is also occasionally seen in doubles with its access to Rage Powder to aid setup, and although Amoonguss doesn't pose any offensive threat to Aegislash whatsoever, it can put it to sleep with Spore and let its partner take advantage, and because Amoonguss is slower than Aegislash it has a better opportunity to actually land that Spore against the blade form.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  9. zecapau

    zecapau Member

    True, but Probopass has a more supportive movepool. It does the job of not only trapping + hitting with Earth Power, but aswell as defending your ally with Wide Guard, healing with Pain Split, setting up with Stealth Rock or crippling with Toxic/ThunderWave. It's not The Best Counter, but does its stuff, and it works.

    You could pull Heat Wave instead.... Unless Wide Guard gets in your way.

    Nice one! Wasn't expecting that mon.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  10. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 VGC Master

    I misspoke, I meant attack form (which the damage calc clearly showed). And even then, yes, there are MANY things that can OHKO in shield form lol

    If you're adding the ground z-move then yeah that's changing dynamics majorly, because you were talking about Earth Power (which the damage calc shows is not great), but again, why in the world would you have it other than that?! That's a complete waste of a z move in most other situations.

    Stealth Rock is a waste of a moveslot in doubles, and Pain Split arguably is too on a slow Pokemon. Probopass is simply not good in doubles (but still definitely cool to use), as even its status moves are severely nerfed with how common Fini is.

    But since this is about Aegislash, there's simply SO many better checks and counters. Pokemon like Charizard, Heatran, Volcarona, faster Aegislash, Hydreigon, Bisharp, and many others with super-effective STAB attacks can OHKO Aegislash in shield form, with or without a z move.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  11. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    That's why I suggested Flamethrower instead. Flamethrower isn't that uncommon on Charizard Y, a lot of Charizards actually run both Heat Wave and a single-target fire move, usually Flamethrower or Overheat. In the USUM Battle Spot Doubles 38.8% runs Flamethrower and 25.4% runs Overheat, while 73.4% runs Heat Wave. There is presumably not much overlap between Flamethrower and Overheat, so that's most likely together more than 50% of Charizards that have a single-target fire move. In the SM Battle Spot Doubles the numbers are similar, just with Overheat being more popular compared to Flamethrower.
  12. Lucario At Service

    Lucario At Service Calm Trainer

    I don't have that much tier knowledge so i might be mistaken here.

    But wouldn't Salazzle be a good opponent for Aegislash.
    I know Salazzle has pathetic defenses stats, but it out speeds Aegislash and can also 'Toxic' it easily and is a special attack so no need to worry about the stat drop from 'King's Shield'.
    And unless Aegislash uses a Rock type move or 'Hidden Power' (Water, Ground or Psychic), Salazzle can easily wear-down Shield Forme Aegislash.
  13. zecapau

    zecapau Member

    I would agree on that, but the problem is that the amount of switches done in doubles are still insane (including the ones with U-Turn/VoltSwitch). Sounds ridiculous, but don't get illuded just by comparing it to singles, because doubles still tend to switch a lot.

    248 SpA Salazzle Inferno Overdrive (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 356-422 (109.8 - 130.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    248 SpA Salazzle Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 186-218 (57.4 - 67.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    248 SpA Salazzle Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 224-266 (69.1 - 82%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
    248 SpA Salazzle Overheat vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Aegislash-Shield: 266-314 (82 - 96.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    With Flamethrower/FireBlast/Overheat, it is guaranteed 2HKO after leftovers recovery (if it has Leftovers ofc) on Shield Stance. If you want to OHKO you'll need Inferno Overdrive to do so.
    And indeed, Toxic may force Aegislash to do something that turns it predictable, and +2 Shadow Sneak will 2HKO with a 25% to OHKO at best (giving you a gap to OHKO if you wanna risk), I recommend a Focus Sash tho.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  14. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Stealth Rock really depends in doubles. It's viable in 6v6 doubles, especially if you've got a team that tends to force switches, but in 4v4 doubles I don't think it's all that viable. 4v4 doubles tend to be more of a combination-focused format rather than a switch-heavy format. Success depends a lot on how well you can make your two pokémon work together to quickly set up and achieve a win condition. Stealth Rock rarely directly contributes much to force that win condition and it costs a turn and a move slot in a format where at the most maybe 3 or so pokémon switch in on a side over the course of an entire battle.

    Salazzle can work, but it's a bit too fragile to be really reliable against it. Shadow Ball from special sets has a chance to OHKO Salazzle for instance, and against physical sets if Aegislash sets up Swords Dance on the switch (or on Salazzle's first attack against the shield form) it has a chance to OHKO Salazzle with Shadow Sneak unless Salazzle gets a lucky burn on its Flamethrower/Fire Blast.

    +2 252+ Atk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Sneak vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salazzle: 126-148 (87.5 - 102.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    252+ SpAtk Aegislash-Blade Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 0 SpDef Salazzle: 126-148 (87.5 - 102.7%) -- 25% chance to OHKO
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  15. zecapau

    zecapau Member

    Kinda true at first glance, but the introduction of the Tapus made a terrain war in doubles that forces them to switch out and in more often than doubles on Gen6. I see a lot of matches doing this just to install the terrain on the field, I watched a Tapu Fini dying for trying to set up Misty Terrain for the third time on the same battle, just to get its terrain replaced by another tapu on the next or even in the same turn.
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  16. GeeGee

    GeeGee Late to the party

    +Steel/Ghost is one of the best typings in the game, sporting 9 resistances and 3 immunities
    +Stance change swaps between phenomenal 60/150/150 defenses and frightening 150/150/60 offenses
    +It's movepool is enormous and can be run in a defensive set, physical attacking set, special attacking set, and more
    +King's shield is a great move that shuts down physical attackers while blocking damage
    +Thanks to stance change, it has a totally unique playstyle compared to any other pokemon in the game
    +Baller design

    -Only 4 weaknesses, but they are all very common
    -King's shield is mandatory on all sets, as it's the only way to activate stance change, resulting in 4 moveslot syndrome
    -Such an over-centralizing pokemon it completely shapes almost any metagame it resides in, as every team must have an aegislash counter or they will lose


    Stance Change: Aegislash's form and stats change when it uses an attacking move, swapping its defenses with its offenses, changing from a beastly tank to a glass cannon. The only way to change back into a tank is to use the move king's shield. Aegislash will not change its stance from Shield to blade form if it uses a status move, such as swords dance, allowing it to safely set up behind its enormous bulk.


    Shadow Sneak
    Nature: Brave
    Ev's: 252Hp/252Atk/4SpD
    Iv's: 0 Speed
    Ability: Stance Change
    Item: Life Orb/Ghostium-Z
    -King's Shield
    -Swords Dance
    -Shadow Sneak
    -Sacred Sword/Iron Head/Shadow Claw

    Most Aegislash sets run a Speed-reducing nature and 0 Speed Iv's. The reason for this is because you want to be slower than your opponent to tank a hit in shield form with 60/150/150 defenses, and then switch to attack and hit like a bus. Then use King's shield to swap back to defense and get your massive defenses back. Swords Dance + Shadow sneak allow aegislash to sweep unprepared teams and absolutely tear them to shreds. Sacred sword is great fighting type coverage, hitting normal types and dark types that try to come in on aegislash. If you want more power, you can run Shadow claw but the lack of coverage makes you completely vulnerable to normal types. Life orb offers the most reliable power source, but Ghostium-Z can allow Aegislash to break through walls. The main disadvantage of physical attacking Aegislash is that it gets weakened by intimidate users, which is why special sets are more common.

    Special Attacker
    Nature: Quiet
    Ev's: 252Hp/252SpA/4SpD
    Iv's: 0 Speed
    Ability: Stance Change
    Item: Life Orb/Ghostium-Z/Weakness Policy
    -King's Shield
    -Shadow Ball
    -Flash Cannon
    -Sacred Sword/Shadow Sneak

    Because Aegislash runs negtive speed natures, it can use a mixed attacking set quite effectively. Even without attack investment, Sacred sword coming off 150 attack will still hurt anything super-effectively. Shadow ball and Flash cannon are the stab moves and hit fairy, ice, rock, ghost, and psychic types hard. Thanks to Aegislash's high defenses, it can usually survive even super-effecitve attacks, and thus make use of the weakness policy item to give itself a huge boost to its offenses. Unlike the physical sets, special sets aren't bothered by attack drops from Intimidate or burns. Holding a Z-crystal also prevents Aegislash from taking bonus damage from Knock off, since Z-crystals cannot be knocked off.

    Nature: Sassy
    Ev's: 252Hp/4Def/252SpD
    Iv's: 0 Speed
    Ability: Stance Change
    Item: Leftovers
    -King's Shield
    -Gyro Ball
    -Shadow Ball

    Aegislash can be played as an incredible special wall, remaining in shield form while applying toxic and keeping itself healthy with leftovers and king's shield. A sassy nature, combined with minimum speed allows gyro ball to hit as hard as possible, while shadow ball still hurts even without any special attack investment.

    Nature: Quiet
    Ev's: 252Hp/252Spa/4SpD
    Iv's: 0 Speed
    Ability: Stance Change
    Item: Leftovers/Weakness Policy/Ghostium-Z
    -King's Shield
    -Shadow Ball
    -Flash Cannon/Sacred sword
    -Sacred Sword/Wide Guard
    Aegislash is a great pick in doubles and any VGC format it's allowed in because of it's typing demanding teams carry answers and it's ability providing incredible flexibility. Teams that cannot deal with Aegislash will find themselves on the wrong end of a beating. It's incredible typing makes it immune to Fake out, and special sets aren't bothered by Intimidate abusers either. Wide Guard also protects itself and teammates from Spread moves such as Mega-Charizard-Y's Heat waves, and enemy Landorus-T's Earthquakes. Using a Z-crystal keeps it safe from Knock off.

    Other Options:
    -Air Balloon: In doubles, being able to dodge friendly and enemy earthquakes is a good thing, and air balloon allows aegislash to even switch into predicted ground-type Z-moves.
    -Substitute can be used to avoid status conditions (even though aegislash is immune to toxic, and special variants need not worry about burns)
    -Shock Wave + Electrium-Z: Aegislash can use Shock wave in tandem with the Electrium-Z to catch your opponent off-guard, blasting them with a 120-power electric attack they wouldn't expect from an Aegislash.
    -Head Smash: Rock-type coverage can surprise your opponent, but the recoil is pretty severe.
    -Rock Slide: Actually not that great of an option since aegislash wants to attack last, and that means it won't be getting any flinches.

    Team Options: Any teammates that appreciate Wide Guard support or Aegislash's ability to wall certain 'mons. Aegislash can fit onto almost any team thanks to it's flexibility and unpredictability. Tapu Bulu's grassy terrain weakens opposing earthquakes, and threatens any dark types that aegislash might be concerned about. Teammates that abuse Follow me or Rage Powder like Amoongus can protect Aegislash while it demolishes something on your opponents team, or sets up a swords dance. Allies with taunt that can taunt opposing taunt users can keep Aegislash safe from being taunted (yo dawg), which prevents it from using king's shield.
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2017
  17. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    Is there going to be a pre-evolution corner for Doublade this time? Considering that Doublade is one of the best tanks below OU.
    252+ Atk Choice Band Entei Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade: 278-330 (86.3 - 102.4%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO

    Ridiculous physical bulk with an eviolite, and access to swords dance with a respectable attack stat and STAB priority make doublade really tough to deal with. But its movepool is a little shallow and Doublade has truly awful base 35 speed, significantly putting it below gastrodon's base speed.
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
  18. ampfire101

    ampfire101 Well-Known Member

    VGC corner

    So Aegislash has had relative success in formats similar to VGC 2018, I'm not surprised to see it running everywhere on Showdown either. Claim to fame? BEING ANNOYING. If you can play it well, Aegislash can be really tedious for others to play against. Main moves you'll see are King's Shield, Wide Guard/Substitute, Shadow Ball, and Flash Cannon. Back in 2015, Sacred Sword was used over Wide Guard, and I guess it still works. You gotta run Quiet nature anyway so you're less likely to get undersped and KO'd in your blade form. Since you have no decreasing attack nature, Sacred Sword can still be viable, hitting Rock, Steel, Dark, Normal, and Ice types for Gucci damage, most notably Tyrannitar, Excadrill, Snorlax, Mega Kang, and Mamoswine. Weakness Policy, Life Orb, and Leftovers were staples back in 2015, but a more popular item used nowadays is Ghostium Z, which deals an average of around 50-60% to Ferrothorn, and even more to anything that doesn't resist it. Popular pairs with Aegislash are Fire types that appreciate it's ability to avoid Scarf Lando's Rock Slide/Earthquake thanks to Wide Guard, like Mega Charizard Y, Volcarona, and Heatran. Fun thing I didn't realize until today: Z moves with a base move of a spread attack will only do 1/4 damage if Wide Guard is up, so that's really useful against Groundium Z Landorus-T and Tec Rage off of Earthquake. A team I constantly run into of Showdown is Aegislash, Zapdos, Volcarona, Mega Kangaskhan, Tapu Fini, and Landorus-T, so if you need any team ideas for using Aegislash, this is a pretty solid way to start using it :) Just know that in best-of-3 matches, Aegislash's unpredictability is partially due to its item. Try preserving that knowledge if you can, and you can make that annoying aspect of Aegislash remain solid over time. Standard EVs are 252 HP, 252SpA, and 4 in either Defense or SpDef, or Attack if you're running Sacred Sword. Zero Speed and Attack IVs (unless, again, you're using Sacred Sword) and a Quiet Nature so you can underspeed as much as possible, not losing any of that impertinent bulk just be switching to Blade form to attack.
  19. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    I've read the article and I've got to be honest here. While the website says "These entries are created by the visitors for the visitors and then compiled by our writers ..." it doesn't seem that way. The entire portion for single battles is taken up by talking about nothing but unrestricted legendary formats, even though none of the talk in this thread here was about that. Look at the counters section. Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, Darkrai, Zygarde, Yveltal, all legendaries which are banned on the battle spot. There's no mention whatsoever for pokémon in restricted formats like Toxapex, Torkoal, and Charizard Y, with the exception of Mega Sableye. Toxapex can wall and pretty much counter Aegislash in single battles. Torkoal and Hippowdon deal with any physical Aegislash. Heck, even Turtonator does very well against physical Aegislash, getting a 2KO with Flamethrower against the shield form while avoiding a 3KO from Sacred Sword. Against special Aegislash stuff like Assault Vest Goodra works pretty well, even without much offensive investment it can still hit pretty hard with Flamethrower while taking next to no damage in return.

    I'm going to be honest, it feels like the contributions in these threads don't have any influence whatsoever on what ends up in the section on the website, which makes these threads feel rather pointless. There's so much more to single battles than just 6v6 Showdown with its silly rules and bans. And let's be honest, the line "The best sleep move in the game" really doesn't apply to Dark Void anymore for single battles now that it's been nerfed to a worse state than Sing and Grasswhistle for that format.
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2017
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