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Community POTW #060

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jan 7, 2018.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. Lucario At Service

    Lucario At Service Calm Trainer

    Togekiss is basically the same as last Gen, and it didn't get anything new to play around with (except Z-Moves).
    And it also did end up getting new Pokemon which could counter it like Nihilego, Stakataka, Alolan Muk to name a few.
  3. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    I wouldn't call Stakataka a counter. If Togekiss runs Aura Sphere (which isn't too uncommon, about 30% of Togekiss run it in singles) it destroys Stakataka.
  4. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Togekiss! Squeeeeee! While this pokémon may be endangered due to strife in the world, it is still an amazing pokémon that catapulted the togepi line into the spotlight. Rivals Jirachi and Shaymin-Sky for best abuser of Serene Grace in the game, and is certainly the strongest user of it. Being a former normal type turned fairy, its has the excellent movepool of the former combined with the amazing typing of the latter. Ignore at your own risk.

    A Nasty Plot
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Item: Leftovers/Sitrus Berry/Life Orb/etc.
    -Nasty Plot
    -Thunder Wave
    -Air Slash
    -Roost/Dazzling Gleam/Aura Sphere/Flamethrower
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Speed/4 SATK
    Nature: Modest (+SATK, -ATK)

    Simple premise: Find an opportunity to setup a nasty plot, Thunder Wave an opponent, and whittle them down with Air Slash, with the combined Flinch and Paralysis rate ensuring that the opponent only has a 30% chance to move. Last move is up due to personal preference. Roost is great if you are using Life Orb to shrug off residual damage, Dazzling Gleam is for STAB coverage, Aura Sphere and Flamethrower deal with select Steel types who resist Air Slash. (Aura Sphere also hits Rock types, while Flamethrower gets Celesteela and Scizor on the switch). EVs are to Maximize Bulk and Speed (for flinch chance), so you are reliant on Nasty Plot to deal significant damage.

    Item choice is rather fluid as well. You can choose Leftovers, or recovery berries for bulk, or Life Orb/Sharp Beak/Flynium Z for damage.

    Ground type partners like Hippowodon, Mamoswine, Diggersby, and Garchomp are amazing, because they counter electric types who wall this set HARD (Immunity to T-Wave, high base speed, and resistance to Air Slash), as well as being an answer to Rock, Steel and Poison types who all worry Togekiss. They in return enjoy the anti Grass protection, as well as Togekiss' ability to leave the opposing team a paralyzed wreck.

    A Supporting Kiss
    Ability: Serene Grace
    Item: Leftovers/Sitrus Berry
    -Heal Bell
    -Tailwind/Yawn/Air Slash/Thunder Wave/Protect
    -Tailwind/Yawn/Air Slash/Thunder Wave/Protect
    Nature: Bold (+DEF, -ATK)
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Speed/4 SDEF

    Cleric Togekiss. Wish and Heal Bell to recover what ails your team, with the last move up to personal preference. Tailwind and Thunder Wave are good speed support options. Yawn forces shuffling and can be good for mind games when combined with Wish. Protect for the Protect/Wish Combo. Air Slash to avoid being Taunt bait. Serene Grace is the preferred ability again. Partially for Air Slash, partially because it cannot screw you over unlike Hustle. EVs are to Maximize speed and bulk again, to ensure that Tokegiss gets its moves off while surviving.

    Other Options
    You could do a gimmick set with Super Luck and a Scope Lens to ensure 50% crit Chance on all of Tokegiss' moves, but since Tokegiss lacks Focus Energy or any viable high crit chance moves... well that's why its a gimmick set.
    -Trick -Always a Fun move no matter who gets it.
    -Reflect/Light Screen -Togekiss can Dual Screen as well.
    -Psycho Shift -This is an interesting move. With this Togekiss, can pass around Burns when combined with the Flame Orb as well as absorb Toxic and Thunder Waves to pass around as well. Better Accuracy than Will-o-Wisp, Toxic and Thunder Wave too. Gimmick.
    -Psychic/Shadow Ball -Other special attacking options. Psychic is good for Poison types... Yeah Shadow Ball only provides extra coverage.
    -Telekinesis -Fun move in Doubles. Combine with an Inferno or Zap Cannon user for oodles of pain for your opponent. Gimmick.
    -Attract/Sweet Kiss -Stack with Togekiss' existing combo to reduce foe to acting 15% or 17% chance of acting respectively. The unreliability of the former and the poor accuracy of the later means that this is still nothing more than Gimmick.
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2018
  5. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    One gimmicky thing Togekiss can potentially do is Z-Tailwind, which raises its critical hit ratio by two stages. It's more viable in doubles, but combined with Super Luck it guarantees critical hits after setup, which is pretty fun if you combine it with Dazzling Gleam and an offensive build. Base 120 Sp.Atk isn't bad at all to lay down some hurt. Unfortunately there are other pokémon that are better at this (like Kartana, which combines it with Leaf Blade) and Togekiss has such a wide supporting movepool it's often better at supporting. That said, Tailwind is already something it often sets up in doubles so it could be used as an offensive Tailwind setter. Put it next to something that also loves Tailwind support like Mega Garchomp (which can also freely spam Earthquake next to Togekiss and covers quite a few of Togekiss's weaknesses) and it's definitely viable, but the combination does leave you with a double Ice weakness. Mamoswine also works well next to Togekiss, benefitting from Tailwind, able to spam Earthquake, and even having an Ice resistance thanks to Thick Fat.
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2018
  6. GeeGee

    GeeGee Late to the party

    +Fairy/Flying is fantastic typing that gives 4 resistances (2 of which are 4x resisted) and 2 immunities
    +85/95/115 bulk is very beefy
    +50/120/80 offenses give Togekiss some real punch
    +Huge movepool offensively and defensively
    +useful abilities it can use to mess with opponents

    -Huge physical movepool but 50 attack means it can't make use of it
    -One of its abilities, Hustle, is completely useless
    -80 base speed could be faster
    -Key flying-type weaknesses to electric and ice

    Serene Grace: Doubles the chances of secondary effects happening. This means air slash's normally 30% chance to flinch doubles to 60%. When combined with thunder wave, Togekiss can almost completely lock down your opponent and air slash them to death.
    Hustle: This ability sucks. Don't ever use it.
    Super Luck: Increases Togekiss's critical hit rate. Nice in theory, but passing up 60% chance to flinch air slashes isn't worth a slight increased crit rate.


    Choice Specs
    Item: Choice Specs
    Ability: Serene grace
    Ev's: 4Hp/252Spa/252Spe
    -Air slash
    -Dazzling Gleam
    -Flamethrower/Fire Blast
    -Aura Sphere

    Air slash is the main stab with a solid 60% flinch rate. Dazzling gleam is the second stab and coming off 120 special attack and choice specs, hits pretty damn hard. Flamethrower hits steel types that resist the main stabs, as well as Ice types. Fire blast can be used for more power, but it has less accuracy and PP. Aura Sphere hits rock and steel types, and can never miss. If you want broader coverage, you can also select from a variety of moves including Shadow ball for ghost and psychic types, Grass knot for ground and water types, or Psychic/Psyshock for poison types.

    Other Options:
    Defog: Defog can clear your opponents hazards, which is nice on paper, but it also clears yours, and Togekiss is already weak to stealth rocks, so switching in Togekiss to clear stealth rocks for it to get chipped for 25% Hp is counter-productive.
    Tailwind: Doubling your teams speed is very useful, and absolutely compensates for Togekiss's lackluster base 80 speed. It also works fantastically in doubles.
    Nasty Plot: Doubling Togekiss's special attack makes it a very potent threat, capable of shredding unprepared opponents.
    Heal bell: Heal bell can remove all status ailments from your team, which can be very useful once your opponents status setters have been dealt with.
    Roost: Roost gives Togekiss the longevity it needs to outlast its opponents, and also heal off any entry hazard damage it may take.
    Thunder wave: Despite thunder wave's accuracy getting nerfed to 90%, as well as speed reduction getting nerfed to 50% instead of 25%, paralysis combined with Air slash's 60% flinch rate gives Togekiss the chance to completely lock down a threat and take them out without any chance of a counter-attack.
    Z-crystals: Z-crystals can be used to give Togekiss high-powered nukes that can deal with some of its bulkier threats, even without a nasty plot boost.
  7. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Active Member

    One big con for Togekiss is that it only has 2 Fairy attacks; Dazzling Gleam and Fairy Wind.

    It can learn Metronome. For the most part, this move isn’t good competitively. However, it can be worth it to see pure rage at getting the perfect move at just the right time.
  8. Barrysun

    Barrysun Well-Known Member

    *decided to look at an old friend of mine*
    if you have Gale of darkness around, you can get an exclusive move only available in that game, Tri attack!
    here's mine's set up.

    Nature: modest
    Item: safety goggles, leftovers, or a berry
    Ability: Serene grace
    Tri attack (only available from Gale of darkness' Togepi)
    follow me
    Dazzling Gleam

    the way mine is set up, if you decided to keep the Togepi instead of trading it for the elemental punches, here's a good set up for you,
    Tri attack gets a boost to randomly give the opponent a freeze, paralize, or a burn.
    Follow me is helpful for districtibg opponents while the partner gets a free boost. ( I did this with Tyranitar with rock polish for a free speed boost, plus Togekiss holds the safety goggles to protect it from the sandstorm)
    as for Safeguard, acts as support from status moves. but I'm thinking it needs a better support move.
    (checks it's movesets...) I wonder if Ancient Power, Silver wind, and Ominous wind are effected by Serene Grace. (gain an easy stat boost while attacking)
  9. Wakerra

    Wakerra Pokemon Breeder

    Oh heck yes! Togekiss is a BEAST! I can't say much for gen 7, but as far as gen 6 mechanics and moves for single battle format:

    Can't Touch This
    Nature: Timid
    EV Spread:
    Sp Def-110
    Natue: Bold
    EV Spread:
    Sp Def-108

    Ability: Serene Grace
    Held Item: King's Rock
    Air Slash
    Dazzling Gleam
    Thunder Wave

    I've leveled or severely crippled entire teams with this Togekiss set up. Air Slash already has a high hit rate at 30%, combining this with Serene Grace and King's rock, you've got yourself a 70% of causing flinch if you strike first. Togekiss's base speed isn't exactly ideal for a first-striker and can be quickly out classed (though having a Timid nature can help boost the odds a little. This can be swapped for a Bold nature with an EVs spread to even out Sp Def and Def). This is where Thunder Wave comes in: by investing all your EVs in HP and defenses, you ensure Togekiss can typically take the first hit before countering with Thunder Wave. Once the opponent's Speed is halved, follow up with a barrage of Air Slash attacks. 70% flinch rate pretty much ensures every turn after you the opponent can't attack, and if they manage to avoid flinch, there is still the chance they'll be immobile from paralysis. But if odds are in their favor and they do manage to avoid a flinch and get a good hit on you, Roost is there to help regain lost HP. Having Dazzling Gleam in there gives you variety and secondary STAB. Coupled with the King's rock, you have a 10% chance to cause flinch with this move too.
  10. jagold

    jagold Destined Trainer

    King's Rock only adds flinch chance to moves that doesn't already have a flinch effect, so no, it won't stack with Air Slash.
  11. dementeddurian

    dementeddurian Well-Known Member

    Has anyone thought of using Fire & Water Pledge with Serene Grace? It may be a bit difficult to pull off, but if you do Air Slash will have a 120% flinch rate and Ancient Power/Silver Wind/Ominous Wind have a 40% chance of activating.
  12. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Doesn't stack with Serene Grace, so there's no point.
  13. Wakerra

    Wakerra Pokemon Breeder

    Well dang...Guess that explains how mon's were sometimes able to defy the odds and hit me multiple times without flinching...in that case, maybe a leftovers would serve better to help pick up HP slack when flinch and paralysis fail. Also helps to any lost HP from setting up the Thunder Wave in the beginning
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