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Community PotW #063

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JarieSuicune

Shiny Blue Trainer
Finally, a POTW I can post on, even if it's not much new info. (Still waiting for Gardevoir!)

Man, this is one of my of my top favorites, since it's introduction in Gen III. I took one look at it's appearance and Dex entry in Sapphire and I was hooked. It has been on my main team ever since.
How anyone can just waltz into the Giant Hole in Gen V is beyond me... it's got swarms of hungry Metagross everywhere! THEY ARE FREAKIN' CARNIVOROUS PSYCHIC TANKS THAT EAT THEIR PREY ALIVE! How is that place not off limits?!
I don't care about pointless tiers, since in proper play anything can be used; same goes (mostly) for official tournaments. Lookin' at you, epic Pachirisu! (Stupid Smogon) So I hope this reflects that somehow...

Positives:
-Epic and terrifying design
-Looks and hits like a Quad-Battle Mech
-Can tank hits like a boss
-Due to stat balance, it moves like a tank (Slow, but tough and deadly)
-Clear Body (Intimidate? HAH!)
-Now comes with Mega Tank! (Contact gets +33% stronger!? OH YEAH!)
-- +10 SpAtk and +40 Speed?! Come on... that wasn't needed anyways! Should have gotten +50 Atk instead... Oh well, makes Bullet Punch less useful, and an emergency SpAtk usable.

Negatives:
-Will-o-Wisp = Explosion
-Due to stat unbalance, a number of things that should be slow but tough and deadly... are not.
-Mega Form doesn't have Levitate (Not that I don't LOVE the power boost, but really, why not? Just look at it!)

My layout:

Carnivorous Psychic Tank (>_<)
-252 Atk
-(Pick your HP/Def/SDef spread) (Don't waste on Speed, it likely won't help enough)
-Adamant or Brave (depends on if you want to make use of that Special Attack as a backup plan or to turn opponent's Trick Room shenanigans against them; usually, having the speed doesn't help)
-Clear Body
Item:
-Metagrossite (Scarier Tank)
-Shell Bell (epic healing)
-Red Card (Go away, pesky counters...) / Escape Button (Put in their worst fear, if it wasn't MegaMeta already)
Moves:
-Meteor Mash (Crush everything (especially Fairies, but not Steel), maybe get a stat boost!) / Gyro Ball (Speed based... don't like)
-Zen Headbutt (Crush everything else, except Steel)
-Earthquake / Hammer Arm (Crush other Steels as well as Ice & Rock faster)
-Explosion (Unexpected kaboom!) / Thunder Punch (for annoying birds and sea monsters that don't go Mega) / Mud Slap (Transfer-only; As weak as it is, lowered accuracy almost always hurts, along with a scratch of damage to add injury to insult, and functions as a last supporting resort when you are burned) / Gravity (Get that stupid bird down where Earthquake can eat it...)

Let Sleeping Tanks Rest
(Same stats; possibly trade some attack for bulk)
Items:
-Mega Stone (Boost your power... but...)
-Shell Bell (Really, that's some good healing you get from ANY Sleep Talk with this item)
Moves:
-Meteor Mash (In the VERY rare situation that you want guarantees, drop this move for a 3-move set; with Shell+Earthquake and Rest as the only moves you will ever use, you will have constant and large recovery every turn)
-Zen Headbutt/Earthquake (Depends on what coverage you need more; Earthquake + Shell Bell could result in some MASSIVE recovery)
-Rest
-Sleep Talk

Other options:
-Magnet Rise (get rid of that weakness to Earthquake spam!)
-Aerial Ace (For when you have to fight Minimized Blissey and can laugh)
-Brick Break (Shatter shields and land good damage on Steel/Ice/Rock)
-Bullet Punch (for those times you need extra speed against a low-defense Fairy or Rock, or something within KO range).
-Pursuit (For those rare times you manage to scare off Mewtwo? As if.)
-Hone Claws (Usually a wasted slot, due to speed, but if you can set it up safely... just LOOK at Mega's claws!)

Other Moves, Special; generally, use only if going Mega:
-Icy Wind (Lowers all opponent's Speed!)
-Sludge Bomb (Unexpected Poison coverage; can Poison!)
-Shadow Ball (Unexpected Ghost coverage)
-Psychic (Rarely worth it, but useful against Burn teams)
-Psyshock (In the rare, but ironic, case where you are Burned and will still do Physical damage)

Best Partners:
-Anything fairly fast with great, strong complementary coverage; Having Levitate/Telepathy for avoiding Earthquake spam is very good too.
-Allies that can Heal Pulse/Follow Me are great too.
-Zoroark (Fast, powerful SpAtk coverage, trick your opponent away from Metagross with an Illusion of something they may worry about more at the time)
-(Mega)Gardevoir (very powerful SpAtk coverage; a great partner for when not running Mega Meta), and can have Telepathy when not Mega, or run Heal Pulse.
-Suicune (Can add Tail Wind speed boost)

Countering Metagross:
-Burns usually cripple non-Rest/Talk sets, but it should usually have something usable as a backup anyways.
-Earthquake. Pretty much anything that uses this will take big chunks out of it.
-Chandelure. Can Will-o+Hex, tank the tank, and resists everything except a rare Shadow Ball or Gravity + Earthquake.

Best environments:
Typically, I've found it best in everything except Singles. The lower speed really shows there, where it gets locked against things that are fast with Earthquakes and Flamethrowers.
-In Doubles it is great, but...
-In Triples, it's best as a side Pokemon. Being in the middle is too risky with it's speed, and it's better suited to hammer away the biggest threat in range rather than soak a ton of hits. That said, the Rest/Talk+Shell Bell layout could be amazing in the center, short of getting KO'd in one turn.
-In Rotation, Metagross partnered with a good SpAttack user makes fun mind games.
 
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Mestorn

Wandering Battler
Countering Metagross:
-Chandelure. Can Will-o+Hex, tank the tank, and resists everything except a rare Shadow Ball or Gravity + Earthquake.

Chandelure doesn't have Levitate. Earthquake wrecks every Chandulure not holding an Air Balloon. That being said Chandelure has 2 super effective STABs and can Burn like you said, so Metagross still can't take it lightly. Mega Charizard Y is far worse. Barring the freak Rock Slide or Thunderpunch plus a speed advantage (via scarf or Agility/Rock Polish), Metagross is vaporized in an instant.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
Should be some mention of Grass Knot here which is boosted by tough claws, and it's seeing a rise in usage to stop Slowbro and Hippowdon
 

Mye

Someone has to win..
Should be some mention of Grass Knot here which is boosted by tough claws, and it's seeing a rise in usage to stop Slowbro and Hippowdon

Yeah, the problem is that outside of countering those two, it doesn't really hit that much else for more than a neutral zen headbutt/meteor mash would (barring Ubers, in which it hits mega-metagross' biggest counter Groudon for what I'm pretty sure is an ohko).

Also, since there's not gonna be a prevo corner for this one (metang is freaking amazing in NU/RU) I'm gonna skip doing a whole shpeel on this one. Hopefully we draw something fun like Mr Mime next.
 

Black Murder Heavangelon

Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!
Yeah, the problem is that outside of countering those two, it doesn't really hit that much else for more than a neutral zen headbutt/meteor mash would (barring Ubers, in which it hits mega-metagross' biggest counter Groudon for what I'm pretty sure is an ohko).

It's worth running Grass Knot to 2HKO pokemon that would stop your sweep but there is the problem of the fact that you have to sacrifice a bit of power to do it.

96 Sp.Atk Neutral Nature Grass Knot is a guaranteed 2HKO on Max HP Slowbro (and Mega Slowbro since he doesn't gain any Sp.Def Mega Evolving).
One the other hand, Mega Meta never OHKOs Hippowdon with Grass Knot, but 0 Sp.Atk Negative Nature always 2HKOs.

Since Metagross lacks a reliable way to boost Special Attack (not even Calm Mind) Grass Knot should be in the Other Moves part of the article or at least on a Baton Pass recipient set so that the aforementioned pokemon don't end a sweep.
 

Mye

Someone has to win..
It's worth running Grass Knot to 2HKO pokemon that would stop your sweep but there is the problem of the fact that you have to sacrifice a bit of power to do it.

96 Sp.Atk Neutral Nature Grass Knot is a guaranteed 2HKO on Max HP Slowbro (and Mega Slowbro since he doesn't gain any Sp.Def Mega Evolving).
One the other hand, Mega Meta never OHKOs Hippowdon with Grass Knot, but 0 Sp.Atk Negative Nature always 2HKOs.

Since Metagross lacks a reliable way to boost Special Attack (not even Calm Mind) Grass Knot should be in the Other Moves part of the article or at least on a Baton Pass recipient set so that the aforementioned pokemon don't end a sweep.

That's what makes it sorta odd as well. While its mega-evo does have more "immediate power", the lack of a boosting move and the lack of clear body makes it very succeptable to stat reduction/sticky web/king's shield. A baton pass chain could mitigate this, albeit if it were to be passed stat boosts I'm thinking defense/spdefense would probably be better as it already has rock polish for speed and is still ruined by its same checks/counters even at +2attack/special attack.
 

Patri25

Well-Known Member
CRUSHERGROSS:
Metagross@Choice Scarf
Nature: Adamant
Clear Body
Evs: 252 Att/ 252 Speed
Moves:
Meteor Mash/Bullet
Ice Punch
Earthquake
Zen Headbutt

This pokemon is a beast, it has antes awesome attack power and a really nice moverpool. You have acces to this shiny pokemon, Just need to download it. Love it cause it takes care of fairies and dragons with ice punch.
 
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Grass Knot is definitely going to be a main slash because it's a really solid coverage move. Even with no investment, you only need Stealth Rock to 2HKO standard Slowbro and Mega Slowbro sets on the switch. Hippowdon struggles to take Meteor Mash + Grass Knot even with a specially defensive spread (it's best bet, to be honest), so you don't even have to predict the switch with Grass Knot there. Then of course, Quagsire is outright demolished. Other coverage moves aren't too much more important. For example, Ice Punch is mainly there for Landorus-T and Gliscor (although checking Landorus and Garchomp with it is nice). However, Gliscor has a shot at losing if it switches into Meteor Mash and Mega Metagross gets and Attack boost (which happens a lot more than you'd think). Meanwhile, Landorus-T can't even take advantage of Intimidate until after Metagross Mega evolves because of Clear Body, and it's lack of recovery means that it'll struggle to switch in more than a couple of times (not to mention the same Attack boost problem). That's not to say that Ice Punch is a bad move because it's actually quite useful, but it's no less situational than Grass Knot. Personally, I'd rather run Grass Knot and have to slowly work around Gliscor and Landorus-T than Ice Punch and be completely walled by Slowbro and Mega Slowbro while still having to slowly work around Hippowdon and the occasional Quagsire, unless the addition of Ice Punch just synergizes pretty well with my team.
 

Black Murder Heavangelon

Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!
Because of Sticky Web, I think Metagross should wait the longest of many Mega Evos thanks to Clear Body and Intimidate. Once Sticky Web is gone and the Intimidates are taken care of, Metagross should Mega Evolve.

Now, I don't know why no one's talking about Metang here.

Metang@Eviolite
Impish Nature
252 HP/252 Def/4 Sp.Def
Clear Body/Light Metal
-Rest
-Sleep Talk
-Stealth Rock/Meteor Mash
-Magnet Rise/Rock Tomb/Hone Claws

Metang can work as an effective and persistent Stealth Rock user, and it's abilities make it a crafty one as well. Clear Body makes it immune not only to Intimidate, but Sticky Web as well, meaning it can give you an edge in the Entry Hazard war. Clear Body also means no Evasive drops from Defog, meaning it doesn't have to worry about Hydro Pumps or Hurricane getting guaranteed hits on it. Light Metal is considered since, unlike his big ugly brother Metagross, Metang can reduce Low Kick and Grass Knot damage with Light Metal to a whopping...100 Base Damage.

Metang can be either a dedicated hazard setting Tank or an offensive oriented Tank, and it has more options than I listed above. First off, Rest and Sleep Talk are its bread and butter, total healing, status removal, and PP Stalling. Metang can use Stealth Rock better than most other users due to how often it can set them up. Of course, it can go on the offensive thanks to its signature move Meteor Mash, not only dealing a meaty 90 Base damage, but a 20% chance of boosting Attack. It can boost it even further with Hone Claws, making Meteor Mash a guaranteed hit.

Of course, you can also go supportive and run Stealth Rock, but you can help the team even more with Rock Tomb, with its guaranteed Speed Drops. Magnet Rise is also a big deal since it can remove one of Metang 4 big weaknesses. It only has worth on sets with an attack but you're Taunt bait anyway. Power-Up Punch helps a big deal in offensive sets as another method of boosting Attack reliably. Ice Punch gets you important KOs and 2HKOs on Ground types you can't deal with by yourself. Body Slam is a useful move for spreading paralysis (as it is Metang's only method) while Mud Slap can be super annoying for guaranteed Accuracy drops, but both are illegal with Light Metal, although it's not that big a deal...

Wow, Metang has a lot of Speed reducing moves. Bulldoze, Icy Wind, the aforementioned Rock Tomb, Scary Face. Speaking of which, Gyro Ball is a decent replacement for Meteor Mash in most situations you use it, problem is it's lack of coverage and the fact that you hit most Fairies for less damage makes it only an option.


Beldum@King's Rock
Adamant/Brave Nature
Optimal Attack and Defense EV's for Little Cup
Clear Body/Light Metal
-Iron Defense
-Iron Head
-Zen Headbutt
-Headbutt

Aside from Take Down and Hold Back, these moves consist of Beldum's entire movepool. Light Metal is mentioned once again because it better serves Beldum. With its current Weight Beldum is hit for 80 Base Power from Low Kick and Grass Knot, but Light Metal reduces that to 60. Tanking Low Kicks is alright, but you are more susceptible to Heavy Slam and Heat Crash. Thing is, Beldum resists Heavy Slam and Heat Crash is only usable by Tepig and is rarely seen and you wouldn't stay in on him anyway, so it's nothing to worry about.

Because of the three flinching moves Beldum has, Beldum can take full advantage of King's Rock and even better advantage under Trick Room, hence the optional Brave Nature. Just remember to tweak the IVs accordingly. Iron Head and Zen Headbutt are STAB but be cautious using the latter as it doesn't have perfect accuracy. Headbutt is an OK normal attack, but it's better than Take Down's recoil side effects. Iron Defense may seem filler, but Beldum's defense isn't that great, especially without Eviolite, and it helps Beldum take priority attacks better should you be relying on Trick Room or Sticky Web.

That's all I got for the Pre Evos. Granted, I'm not very experienced with using Metang but I had to say something before the PotW tomorrow.
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
Because of Sticky Web, I think Metagross should wait the longest of many Mega Evos thanks to Clear Body and Intimidate. Once Sticky Web is gone and the Intimidates are taken care of, Metagross should Mega Evolve.

Eh... Sticky Web isn't really a relevant factor. At all. The most common user of Sticky Web in OU is Smeargle, who only carries it about 33.871% of the time, and Smeargle itself is only pulling a 0.69119% usage. Even things like Shuckle and Galvantula that pretty much always carry Sticky Web are sporting 0.49529% and 0.44980% usage, respectively. All this is assuming the upper parts of the ladder, of course. True it loses Clear Body upon Mega Evolving, but it also jumps to a MUCH better speed tier and sports more bulk and power. Standard Metagross is pretty bad in the metagame. Saving Metagross until later in the match to use it after its checks/counters are gone/weakened is one thing, but intentionally keeping it in its standard form just for Clear Body is a bit... silly. It has minor situational uses but in most cases you'll probably wanna mega evolve it, especially since with things like obvious Lando-T switches, switching in and Intimidate being blocked by Clear Body will supersede the Mega Evolution if it's on the same turn.
 
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Eh... Sticky Web isn't really a relevant factor. At all. The most common user of Sticky Web in OU is Smeargle, who only carries it about 33.871% of the time, and Smeargle itself is only pulling a 0.69119% usage. Even things like Shuckle and Galvantula that pretty much always carry Sticky Web are sporting 0.49529% and 0.44980% usage, respectively. All this is assuming the upper parts of the ladder, of course. True it loses Clear Body upon Mega Evolving, but it also jumps to a MUCH better speed tier and sports more bulk and power. Standard Metagross is pretty bad in the metagame. Saving Metagross until later in the match to use it after its checks/counters are gone/weakened is one thing, but intentionally keeping it in its standard form just for Clear Body is a bit... silly. It has minor situational uses but in most cases you'll probably wanna mega evolve it, especially since with things like obvious Lando-T switches, switching in and Intimidate being blocked by Clear Body will supersede the Mega Evolution if it's on the same turn.

That is true since most OU Pokemon don't have Sticky Web unless someone is using UU Galvantula. Intimidate is still a problem espesially since Landorous Therian has it and Earthquake.
 

Mye

Someone has to win..
That is true since most OU Pokemon don't have Sticky Web unless someone is using UU Galvantula. Intimidate is still a problem espesially since Landorous Therian has it and Earthquake.

Or unless it's contrary shuckle, which even then can't do anything to metagross (unless it's packing power trick, and in trick room).
 
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