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Community POTW #070

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Black Murder Heavangelon

Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!
Back in Pokemon Battle Revolution Random Wifi Doubles, people were plagued by Darkrai's and their super fast Dark Void. I had been primarily a Trick Room user for a long time up until I took one too many losses to Dark Void.

That's when I got myself a Crobat.

At max Speed and Nature, Crobat reliably outspeeds Darkrai, and could always Taunt them before they could shut me down. Inner Focus was Crobat's only ability back then, but it meant that Crobat couldn't be Faked Out to prevent Taunting the Dark Void user. Paired with a Ghost type user of Trick Room, the combination couldn't be stopped before the Trick Room went up. Ahh, those were the days. Imagine the look on their faces when their precious team of legendaries was outperformed by UU pokemon...


Fast forward to present day, and not much has changed for Crobat. It got Infiltrator now, making it an even better wallbreaker should it be trained to do so. Just about everyone has brought up Infiltrator Crobat, so let's look at the merits of Inner Focus Crobat, especially in Doubles.

Tailwind - A great overall support move. Golbat might make better use of this due to Eviolite but Crobat clearly has the speed advantage.
Super Fang - One of Crobat's keys to breaking walls in half, literally. It's super effective on Crobat's offensive sets, but it has just as much support use in Doubles as it does by itself.
Venom Drench - More situational than it seems, but Crobat is known to be a reliable poison inducer. Lowering the Attack, Sp.Atk, and Speed of the afflicted can give you a huge edge, but the pokemon in question are already put on a timer. I guess you could hit a Gliscor with it (lol).
Curse - It might seem weird to lower your own Speed, but let's say you have yourself a White Herb. Now you have an Attack and Defense boost but no item. Don't forget, Acrobatics is a thing, and becomes Crobat's strongest STAB barring Brave Bird and Sky Attack, a great alternative when used in tandem.
Poison Fang - Toxic only has a 10% chance to miss. That's not a big deal. But don't forget that Poison Fang is unaffected by Taunt and can induce Toxic Poison 50% of the time, and is 100% accurate. Better used on Golbat than Crobat, but again, Crobat does have the speed advantage.
Quick Guard - A very useful move if your Doubles Team is centered around offense. Naturally your opponent will want to hit you with their hardest hitting priority moves, but Quick Guard blocks such attempts and can be used repeatedly. It comes with two drawbacks. Feint will disable the protection properties of this move if it hits either opponent. And, while the move itself can be used repeatedly, it lowers the success rate of your actual Protect moves like Detect. Still, blocking Klefki's Prankster boosted Swagger is one of the best feelings in the world.
Haze - It's only merit in Singles is to remove all stat changes of both pokemon. You're not guaranteed to remove the buffs of an already super pumped opponent, so it's use is limited. Although, in Doubles, you can use this to remove the drops of your teammates own moves, enabling you to hit super hard consecutively. Leaf Storm? Full power next turn. V-Create? Defense drops removed! Superpower? Attack drop cleansed away! It might be hard to use due to Crobat's natural Speed, so Golbat may make better use of this move. Again, depends on what speed tier you wanna be in.


Crobat (and Golbat) is a unique pokemon that can support teammates with its sheer speed, and has quite the movepool to do it with. It'd be a crime to not explore their options in Singles as well as Doubles. It remains one of my favorite pokemon because of it.

(also my crobat fits right in with a trick room team as its u turn becomes super slow and helps guarantee safe switchins and stuff don't question my trick room intellect)
 

Psynergy

Strong Winds
Staff member
Super Mod
Poison Fang - Toxic only has a 10% chance to miss. That's not a big deal. But don't forget that Poison Fang is unaffected by Taunt and can induce Toxic Poison 50% of the time, and is 100% accurate. Better used on Golbat than Crobat, but again, Crobat does have the speed advantage.
Had to point it out, but Toxic has "No Guard" accuracy when used by Poison types (as in it will always hit, even if the opponent is Flying, Digging, etc). Poison isn't quite as effective in Doubles though given that battles tend to be incredibly fast paced anyway, which is also why Stall/Defensive teams tend to be less effective (Trick Room offense is fine though).
 

Black Murder Heavangelon

Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!
Had to point it out, but Toxic has "No Guard" accuracy when used by Poison types (as in it will always hit, even if the opponent is Flying, Digging, etc).
Seriously? Is this true? I have trouble believing it, since I swear I've had Toxic miss on me in extreme circumstances. I'm not calling you a liar, but this can't be true...

Still, Poison Fang is one of the better options over Toxic, since it bypasses Taunt and has 5 more base PP. That's just my opinion anyway.
 

Mye

Someone has to win..
Noone even touched golbat, which is surprising as it is arguably waaay more useful than crobat. Meh, I have a half hour:

Pros (Golbat):
+75/70/75 defenses, when boosted by eviolite are surprisingly bulky, especially when combined with...
+a bunch of decent resistances for UU. Only taking 1/4 damage from fighting/bug/grass in a tier with dozens of usable fighting/grass types and heracross? Yes please.
+90 speed makes it pretty damn fast for a wall
+Infiltrator also gives it a weird niche in that it can toxic and taunt substitute abusers, often forcing them into a kill or be stalled to death scenario
+Much like crobat, golbat has a giant movepool full of gems, making it unpredictable sometimes
+Am I the only one who thought its shiny version has the same color-scheme as watermelon jolly ranchers?

Cons (Golbat)
-80 attack is pretty abysmal, forcing it to rely on toxic for its main way of damage
-Despite walling most of the dark types in UU, it's still heavily vulnerable to knock off
-4MSS is kinda an understatement on this thing, with roost/toxic kinda being mandatory. Add in the fact it gets taunt, haze, whirlwind, hypnosis (meh) and defog, and you're almost always giving up something amazing.
-One of the few pokemon with access to nasty plot and a good special movepool that can't take any advantage of it (65 special attack, for shame)

Golbat @ Eviolite (Infiltrator)
Careful, 252HP/252SpDef/4Speed
-Toxic
-Roost
-U turn/Brave Bird
-Taunt/Defog

One of the few golbat sets you see in UU, and for good reason. Infiltrator toxic/taunt are just dastardly, oftentimes turning opposing walls into death fodder and forcing baton pass chains to end rather prematurely. U-turn may seem weird on a stalling pokemon, but in reality it allows golbat to function well in volt-turn chains (especially with rotom-h) by forcing people to constantly guess on what you're sending in. Defog and Brave Bird can also be used, albeit golbat can't exactly do much to common UU hazard setters (forretres) while Brave Bird still leaves it walled by steel types and ruins its longevity.
 

Black Murder Heavangelon

Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!
+Infiltrator also gives it a weird niche in that it can toxic and taunt substitute abusers, often forcing them into a kill or be stalled to death scenario
Last I recall, you didn't need Infiltrator to have Taunt go through a Substitute.

That said, I do reckon Golbat makes better use of Poison Fang than Toxic, due to Golbat's speed tier. It's 50/50 on whether they are poisoned or not, so choosing between that or being Taunted depends on how lucky you think you'll get.

Oh, yeah since Poison Fang is an attack, it'll do 4x damage to Whimsicott if it thinks it can just waltz in and Taunt to end your parade. Let's see...

8 Atk Golbat Poison Fang vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Whimsicott: 148-180 (45.6 - 55.5%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

Brave Bird does slightly more, but Poison Fang is the better option because of the recoil.

If only Crobat had a draining move of some kind like Oblivion Wing. Then we'd see Assault Vest Crobat. Heh heh...
 

KillerDraco

The Enforcer
Staff member
Super Mod
Brave Bird does slightly more, but Poison Fang is the better option because of the recoil.
Except it's not better.

Poison Fang is rubbish due to its low power; a 2x Brave Bird outdamages a 4x Poison Fang, and a neutral Brave Bird outdamages a 2x Poison Fang. Whimsicott is a non-factor and I don't even know why you're mentioning it. Whimsicott's not going to switch into Golbat regardless, since it hates switching into Brave Bird or Toxic (although it loves switching into Roost or Defog). And even if Whimsicott does need to stay in on Golbat, it's usually just going to Encore it into a bad move or something so you can set up on it with another Pokemon or force a double switch, or Stun Spore it if you've resigned your Whimsicott to its fate. Not to mention some of the most common users of Taunt in RU (Cobalion, Skuntank) can't be poisoned anyway, so it's better off to just go with Toxic, which you know is going to Poison the things that are able to be poisoned, rather than use some gimmicky attack that's only going to Poison half the time out of fear that you're going to get Taunted, which isn't even that common anyway.
 

Black Murder Heavangelon

Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!
I still stand my ground that Poison Fang is a good if not equal option over Toxic regularly. Maybe I just favor the notoriety of the move.

I don't keep track of tiers so a lot of my talk was of Golbat and Crobat in OU. Poison/Flying is a good defensive typing.
 

Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
I still stand my ground that Poison Fang is a good if not equal option over Toxic regularly. Maybe I just favor the notoriety of the move.

I don't keep track of tiers so a lot of my talk was of Golbat and Crobat in OU. Poison/Flying is a good defensive typing.
1.) Poison Fang is super weak. Jolly Poison Fang can't 2HKO standard Clefable (also Poison doesn't matter because of Magic Guard) and fails to do enough damage to stop Belly Drum Azumarill from setting up.
2.) Nothing bar Thundurus will be able to Taunt you before you use Toxic, and you never want to stay in on it anyway.
3.) Toxic guarantees the infliction, Poison Fang doesn't. Ensuring you cripple a Lando-T switch-in is far better than barely scratching it and potentially failing.
4.) Poison/Flying is a mixed bag. A Fairy and Fighting resist with a Ground immunity sounds cool until you take into account that you're weak to Rock, Electric, Ice, and Psychic, most (if not all) of which any good team will have on them. Crobat also has mediocre bulk so neutral hits will still do a decent amount.
5.) Neither Golbat nor Crobat are considered viable so none of this matters anyway. The only consistently useful thing I can think of Crobat doing is revenging SubCM Keldeo with Inflitrator Brave Bird, but even then there are better answers to it.
 
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Black Murder Heavangelon

Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!
Of course I know that Poison Fang is a crappy physical move (Tyrantrum's Strong Jaw Boosted Poison Fang still doesn't KO Fairies reliably, most of his elemental fangs even outdamage it), I just like Poison Fang better as a utility move. To me the appeal is a Taunt proof way of inflicting Bad Poison that no other move has. That's just me.
 

Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
Of course I know that Poison Fang is a crappy physical move (Tyrantrum's Strong Jaw Boosted Poison Fang still doesn't KO Fairies reliably, most of his elemental fangs even outdamage it), I just like Poison Fang better as a utility move. To me the appeal is a Taunt proof way of inflicting Bad Poison that no other move has. That's just me.
Except nothing is using Taunt on you before you use Toxic since Crobat has one of the highest Speed stats in the game, plus faster/Prankster Taunters are not common at all. The ones that do exist and might have it (Mega Alakazam, Mega Aerodactyl, Thundurus, non-Mega Sableye) scare the crap out of Crobat so it doesn't matter anyway. Staying in to Toxic/Poison Fang them leaves you with a dead bat just to slightly annoy them.
 

Mye

Someone has to win..
1.) Poison Fang is super weak. Jolly Poison Fang can't 2HKO standard Clefable (also Poison doesn't matter because of Magic Guard) and fails to do enough damage to stop Belly Drum Azumarill from setting up.
2.) Nothing bar Thundurus will be able to Taunt you before you use Toxic, and you never want to stay in on it anyway.
3.) Toxic guarantees the infliction, Poison Fang doesn't. Ensuring you cripple a Lando-T switch-in is far better than barely scratching it and potentially failing.
4.) Poison/Flying is a mixed bag. A Fairy and Fighting resist with a Ground immunity sounds cool until you take into account that you're weak to Rock, Electric, Ice, and Psychic, most (if not all) of which any good team will have on them. Crobat also has mediocre bulk so neutral hits will still do a decent amount.
5.) Neither Golbat nor Crobat are considered viable so none of this matters anyway. The only consistently useful thing I can think of Crobat doing is revenging SubCM Keldeo with Inflitrator Brave Bird, but even then there are better answers to it.
Yeah, I'd suggest looking at the tiers again. In UU, crobat sees some of the highest usage wheras golbat is generally considered to be one of the better eviolite users (better than rhydon).
 
Black Murder Heavangelon explicitly stated that he was talking about OU, in which case Crobat is pretty bad and Golbat is even worse.

On that note, Golbat seems incredibly mediocre in a metagame where Crobat exists. The extra bit of bulk that you get on either side with the Eviolite is less impressive when you factor in the loss of Leftovers, and you also give up a bit of power and, most importantly, a ton of speed. I don't see the point unless you desperately need that extra bulk.
 

Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
Black Murder Heavangelon explicitly stated that he was talking about OU, in which case Crobat is pretty bad and Golbat is even worse.

On that note, Golbat seems incredibly mediocre in a metagame where Crobat exists. The extra bit of bulk that you get on either side with the Eviolite is less impressive when you factor in the loss of Leftovers, and you also give up a bit of power and, most importantly, a ton of speed. I don't see the point unless you desperately need that extra bulk.
Golbat is currently C-Rank in UU, so it's not complete garbage. It's still better off being used in RU since it's one of the better Defoggers with Gligar's recent rise to UU, removing some competition for its role as a Bulky Defogger.
 
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