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Community POTW #073

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Apr 8, 2018.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. TheIceCream

    TheIceCream User of Ultra Beasts

    Bronzong. A really weird Pokemon but one with lots of use. Having a decent movepool, a good typing and 2 good abilities, what's not to love about this thing?

    Positives:
    + 116 Defense and Sp Defense are pretty solid
    + 33 Speed means that it can be a really good Trick Room Pokemon whilst learning the move itself
    + Its abilities are pretty useful and unpredictable (2 of them anyway)
    + A good number of resistances
    + 89 Attack and 79 Sp Attack are decent for a support Pokemon
    + It looks quite funny. Probably just me though.

    Negatives:
    - 67 HP doesn't help its good defenses
    - Getting a Ghost and Dark Weakness isn't great in 6th gen since now you know it has at least 2 weaknesses
    - 33 Speed is great in Trick Room but it isn't so great otherwise
    - It could be considered to be outclassed by Stakataka who has more Attack and Defense and a lower speed
    - As other Steel-Psychics, there's Mega Metagross who has better HP, Defense, Speed and more Attack

    Abilities:
    Levitate:
    Probably Bronzong's best ability. Being one of 3 Pokemon that get Levitate and other abilities (the other 2 being its Pre Evo and Duskull), giving it an immunity to one of its weaknesses is amazing.
    Heatproof: Not as good as Levitate since you only get your Fire Weakness removed rather than it giving you a full immunity to it; unlike levitate. However, it could be used to fool with the opponent since they will be guessing if you have Levitate or Heatproof and it could be a nasty surprise for them.
    Heavy Metal: Unlike its other abilites, Heavy Metal is pretty useless. Just stick with Levitate or Heatproof.

    Counters: Heatran is a great counter against Bronzong. With Bronzong being unable to do anything against Heatran, it can deal damage back with an Earth Power or a STAB Fire move depending on Bronzong's ability. Charizard Y does something similar with the sun cancelling out Heatproof and dealing big damage back. (Mega) Tyranitar doesn't like Gyro Ball but deals good damage with a Crunch. Ghost Types also do well with Aegislash dealing good damage with a Shadow Ball or Mega Gengar.
     
  3. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Bronzong is a pretty interesting support pokémon, it can do quite a lot of unique things thanks to its decent typing, bulk, and excellent movepool. It can set Trick Room, although I'd usually pick Cresselia for that instead as a levitating Trick Room setter.

    Bronzong @ Psychium Z
    Ability: Levitate
    252 HP, 132 Def, 124 Sp.Def
    Relaxed nature
    -Trick Room
    -Hypnosis
    -Flash Cannon / Gyro Ball / Metal Sound / Protect
    -Zen Headbutt / Psychic / Dream Eater / Metal Sound / Protect

    Trick Room Bronzong is pretty interesting. Psychium Z ensures you can get Trick Room off even when Taunted, and Whimsicott can't Encore you into Z-Trick Room either. Z-Trick Room also raises your accuracy by one stage, which makes Hypnosis a fairly useful support move with 80% accuracy, although its value is somewhat diminished with how poor sleep is in the current meta where Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko are everywhere. It still helps to put Flying types and Levitators to sleep though, for instance Landorus. Metal Sound is a supporting move that can be quite useful if you've got special attacking partners that are just a tad faster than Bronzong, like Mega Ampharos. This allows you to use Bronzong in a similar way to Fake Tears Whimsicott, and Metal Sound becomes 100% accurate after Z-Trick Room too. Dream Eater is a gimmicky strategy that can provide some healing in a pinch when combined with Hypnosis, but Bronzong doesn't have the best damage.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
  4. MetalSonic

    MetalSonic Orderan' Defendan'

    Stakatacka and Bronzong really can't be compared. Levitate and its typing sets it apart from Stakatacka, Stackatacka is a lot more offensive, yes, but Bronzong fits itself better on balanced teams due to it not being quad weak to the most common offensive typing out there. Also is 33 speed a good plus or a negative? You've got it on both. ><

    Also, Bronzong can learn moves to hit Heatran in Earthquake and Bronzong very easily lures in Heatran.

    [​IMG]
    Bronzong @ Leftovers
    Ability: Levitate
    EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
    Sassy Nature
    IVs: 0 Spe
    - Psychic / Psywave
    - Toxic
    - Stealth Rock
    - Gyro Ball

    Been playin a lotta RU lately, and have come to appreciate this bell! It lends itself to the team with its ability to take hits from the tiers most common attackers like Flygon, Roserade, Shaymin, Gardevoir and the like. Bulkier things like Milotic, Moltres, and Blastoise it can easily Toxic on the predicted switch. Stealth Rock is what it finds itself getting up a lot over the course of the match. Gyro Ball is soz it can hit things back, but the choice between Psychic and Psywave has a bit more weight to it. Psychic deals consistent damage, of course, and can hit Salazzle and Nidoqueen hard enough, but Psywave is there soz you can always chip away at other Bronzong much more easily, so you two aren't just floatin there doin nothin to each other.
     
  5. jr0904

    jr0904 Beginning Trainer

    i wouldnt say heavy metal is useless. it doubles its weight which means that gyro ball does even more damage since its damage output is depending on your weight. a heavy weight gyro ball can easily OHKO pokemon that is weak to steel types. especially Tyranitar & its mega form.
     
  6. GeeGee

    GeeGee Late to the party

    Gyro ball's damage is dependent on its speed, not weight. You're thinking of heavy slam, which is outclassed by Gyro ball since even when doubled 412.3 lbs isn't going to hit as hard as gyro ball with 0 Speed investment and a negative speed nature. You also don't want to pass up levitate, which makes Bronzong a good switch into ground types.
     
  7. Psynergy

    Psynergy Strong Winds Staff Member Super Mod

    The other thing about Heavy Metal is that Levitate and Fireproof are so much better in comparison anyway. Removing a weakness entirely has so much more utility in comparison that it wouldn't have a good reason to run it even if Heavy Metal did provide a sizable power boost. Between Levitate, or Fireproof with Bulu support in Doubles, Heavy Metal just gets eclipsed entirely since Bronzong's whole deal is being a defensive support for a team.

    Heavy Metal and Light Metal in general just suffer from the fact that they don't provide a ton of utility on the Pokemon that get them though, everything with them just has better alternatives.
     
  8. jr0904

    jr0904 Beginning Trainer


    if mold breaker type abilities never existed, then yes! so having levitate isn't 100% fullproof from immunity to ground types. not to mention gravity.

    and you have to expect that eventually there will be a pokemon with an ability that is more or less the same effect as gravity making levitate useless.

    sure heavy metal is definitely inferior to those other abilities , but its definitely not useless. and i have seen people used heavy metal combined with heavy slam before and it DOES HURT! even more than a low IV gyro ball.
     
  9. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Max base power of Heavy Slam is 120.

    Max base power of Gyro Ball is 150.

    Both have variable damage, yes, but only one does not require you to sacrifice defensive potential to capitalize upon it. Heavy Metal may not be useless in the most literal sense in that it does do SOMETHING (as opposed to things like Slow Start, Defeatist, etc.), but its niche is so minuscule that it's not even worth considering. At the end of the day, Bronzong is a defensive/support Pokemon first and foremost; many offensive steel types outclass it entirely. As a defensive/support Pokemon, it would much rather have one of its two abilities that enhances those roles by making it easier to survive.

    Also worth noting your example of Tyranitar only amounts to 40 base power, even with Heavy Metal. Heavy Metal puts Bronzong at 824 lbs, while Tyranitar is at 445 lbs. When the target's weight is over 50% of the user's, the base power is only 40.

    Target's Weight - Base Power
    50+% of user's weight - 40
    33-50% of user's weight - 60
    25-33% of user's weight - 80
    20-25% of user's weight - 100
    Less than 20% of user's weight - 120

    And in that case...

    252+ Atk Bronzong Heavy Slam (40 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 102-122 (29.9 - 35.7%) -- 30.2% chance to 3HKO

    This is assuming you're using full offensive investment as well, which is quite gimmicky, so in reality it'd look more like...

    0 Atk Bronzong Heavy Slam (40 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 74-90 (21.7 - 26.3%) -- 3.8% chance to 4HKO

    Meanwhile Crunch from Tyranitar will 2HKO Bronzong.

    252+ Atk Tyranitar Crunch vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Bronzong: 258-306 (76.3 - 90.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

    There's just really not enough reason to use Heavy Metal. You could argue it's not useless in the most literal sense, but it is effectively useless compared to better options.
     
    Sceptile Leaf Blade likes this.
  10. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Member

    If you are on a Rain Team, Bronzong might be a good option. It has Rain Fance, which can help alleviate its Fire weakness. You could give it Levitate and essentially only have 2 weaknesses.
     
  11. Archstaraptor

    Archstaraptor devolved.

    I agree that there will be things that bronzong hits harder with heavy slam. They have to tick the key boxes though for it to be worthwhile:
    1.Be slow enough that Bronzong's speed is similar to the target's speed- Gyro Ball's Base power is low
    But also,
    2.Be significantly heavier than the target - Heavy Slam's base power is high

    But the problem lies with the group of mons this move would be relevant on: Commonplace slow mons that aren't hurt by gyro ball tend to be also heavy, and/or resist steel. Snorlax, Mudsdale, Wishiwashi, Steelix,to name a few in this category.

    The mons that this move does beat gyro ball for damage output would include Shuckle , Aromatisse, Mega Abomasnow, Mega Sableye, Gigalith.But some of these mons don't need heavy slam to boost heavy slam's power (Aromatisse and Shuckle don't threaten bronzong in the first place), and some actually beat bronzong if it loses levitate (granted people may not ever find out on simulators but the THUD on entry is a telltale sign ingame, even before you click heavy slam, that you're weak to earthquake.

    In a nutshell, without gyro ball and levitate it loses a huge amount of offensive and defensive power. Heavy Metal + Heavy Slam only helps you against a deceivingly small handful of matchups,and in much of them you can either get by with gyro and levitate anyways.

    I may well have missed a major mon that bronzong beats with heavy slam and not with gyro ball. If anyone thinks of any do say!
     
  12. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Alolan Muk maybe? Although whether or not Bronzong should even stay in on Muk is questionable with Muk usually running Knock Off. And Muk is a bit too bulky to really threaten like this, it can easily use the opportunity for setup of moves like Curse, Minimize, or Acid Armor.

    One other thing is that the display in-game never accounts for abilities. It will simply say Super Effective for Earthquake even if Bronzong has Levitate.
     
  13. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    Heavy Metal also makes Bronzong unaffected by Sky Drop, so it can be useful in VGC. Getting sky dropped can take away a crucial opportunity to set up trick room or a screen. Plus even with levitate Bronzong would take the chip damage.
    Still, generally you're gonna want to put levitate on Bronzong if its next to a ground tpe or you're running a rain team. Heatproof otherwise.
     
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