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Community POTW #075

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Apr 22, 2018.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. zecapau

    zecapau Member

    To be honest, I think that we should have at least two or three pokémon per week.

    Why?
    As each generation gives us new pokémon, we will get limited to ~52 POTW per year. I expect that, after a decade, we'll end stuck in doing POTW to only legendary, mythical, pseudo-legendary, starter and overused pokémon, which might lower even further the amount of people interested to read the POTW.

    But it's the "Pokémon of the Week", so there's only one pokémon per week, right?
    Well, aside of the fact that we already did multiple mons per week (e.g.: the whole rodent family), the plural to determine multiple pokémon is "pokémon" aswell. So POTW can be determined either singular or plural that way.
     
  3. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    I've used Gogoat on exactly one team in the entire time I've been playing this game and it was mostly as a meme. While it might not seem horrible on paper (it does have decent bulk, a usable Attack stat, and plenty of support options), in practice it's outclassed by other Grass-types in just about every format. I paired it with Tapu Bulu to take advantage of Grassy Seed + Grassy Pelt to patch up his otherwise lackluster Defense, as well as boosting his STAB using the following set.


    [​IMG]
    Gogoat @ [​IMG] Grassy Seed
    Careful - Grassy Pelt
    248 HP / 8 Def / 252 Sp. Def
    -Horn Leech
    -Superpower
    -Bulk Up

    -Milk Drink

    The set is rather self-explanatory. Tapu Bulu's Grassy Terrain allows Gogoat to proc its Grassy Seed, which alongside Grassy Pelt massively increases his Defense. Superpower is picked over Earthquake as Grassy Terrain halves Earthquake's power. Superpower still allows him to retain coverage on Steel types. Bulk Up lets him increase his limited offensive presence while further boosting his Defense, and Milk Drink provides him with instant recovery and potentially allows him to set up a late-game sweep.

    The problem is, there's literally no reason at all to use this set when you can run a nearly identical set on Tapu Bulu to a much greater effect. Even if we're looking for teammates for a Tapu Bulu we already have on our team, Kartana proves itself to be a much better option as it has far greater offensive presence and superior coverage options.
     
  4. Local Maple

    Local Maple Active Member

    My recommended Gogoat set:

    Singles:
    Best as a Switch-in for Grass checks. If your Gastrodon is threatened with a 4x weakness, cover him with this. Can also work for Trick Room, but that is hard to pull off in Singles.

    I’m growing on you:
    Ability: Sap Sipper
    Nature: Adamant or Jolly
    EVs: Max Atk/Speed
    Item: Choice Scarf/Band, Flyinium-Z
    Aerial Ace
    Horn Leech
    Earthquake/Bulldoze
    Rock Slide

    Anticipate the Grass move, and have Gogoat switch in to gain Attack. Even Spore will heal you instead. Choice Band gives even more attack, while Choice Scarf can patch some of the speed.

    (Z-)Aerial Ace may seem like a weird choice, but most opposing Grass attack users are Grass type. Horn Leech is STAB/sustain, and EQ/Rock Slide are good coverage. Bulldoze can be used instead to lower speed for whoever switches in for Gogoat.

    Doubles:
    I am the Gardener:
    Ability: Grassy Pelt
    Adamant/Brave (0 Speed for Brave)
    EVs: Max ATK, mixed defenses.
    Item: Assault Vest/Life Orb/Grassy Seed
    Bounce/Retaliate
    Wild Charge/Superpower
    Rock Slide
    Horn Leech

    As the Ability suggests, use this set in Grassy Terrain, and maybe Trick Room. Comfey can supply both and priority healing. Assault Vest is for additional Bulk, while the damage from Life Orb will be lessened by the Terrain. Grassy Seed will add extra Defense, but beware Sp.Attacks; balance your EVs depending on Physical VS Special bulk items.
    Horn Leech is a must for sustain, and gains additional damage under Grassy Terrain. Rock Slide hits both opponents, and can flinch any slower opponent. Wild Charge and Superpower depend on if what you need coverage for, Flying or Steel. Bounce can act like Protect for the turn Trick Room ends as well as strike opposing Grass types, or Retaliate can revenge kill for an ally.

    ———————————————

    In depth analysis for Gogoat:

    Stats: Good Attack. Middling Speed that’s not great for either Trick Room or Choice Scarf. Decent bulk, weaker on the physical side.
    Recommended Natures: Adamant or Brave.

    Abilities:
    Sap Sipper. Raises Attack when hit by Grass attacks. Fear Spore, or have a Pokémon weak to Grass? Switch Gogoat in for a free Attack boost!
    Grass Pelt: Raises Defense while on Grassy Terrain. Great ally for Tapu Bulu, especially while holding an Assault Vest. A Comfey with Grassy Terrain, Floral Healing, and maybe Trick Room can also work.

    Legacy Moves:
    With Grass Pelt and Grassy Terrain, Gogoat will take no damage during Dig from Earthquake.
    With Grassy Terrain, Secret Power has a 30% chance to cause Sleep.
    Retaliate can be a surprising move. If an ally Tapu Bulu or Comfey go down, AND the opponent resists your Grass STAB+Terrain boost, punish them with a base 140 attack.

    Cleric Moves:
    Synthesis (5 PP) or Milk Drink (10 PP) can heal consistently, but Assault Vest users can’t use these.
    Giga Drain (not much Sp.Atk), or Horn Leech (better) work offensively.
    While having access to Grassy Terrain is nice, Grass Pelt users may prefer Assault Vest.

    Gimmick Moves:
    Leech Seed can help tank sets without Assault Vest.
    Bulldoze can help with the lower speed, but has less damage with Grassy Terrain.
    Rest-Sleep Talk can be a surprising method of self-preservation.
    Bulk Up can increase physical attack and defense, good combo with Horn Leech.
    Work Up can increase both offensive stats for mixed sets, but I wouldn’t recommend it over Bulk Up.

    Offensive Moves:
    Earthquake-Rock Slide always has great coverage, but EQ loses damage in Grassy Terrain.
    Horn Leech has STAB, Grassy Terrain boost, and heals.
    Leaf Blade is slighter stronger than Horn Leech, with a higher crit ratio.
    With such poor speed, Payback can work as a counter strike.

    Coverage Moves:
    Surf to douse Fire types that are physical tanks or Intimidate Arcanine.
    Wild Charge for Flying types.
    Superpower for Steel types. Works best alongside Bulk Up and Horn Leech.
    Iron Tail for Fairies.
    Aerial Ace for opposing Grass types, as well as Evasion modifiers.
    Bounce will act as a pseudo-Protect and damage opposing Grass types.

    Z-Status moves:
    Z-Rain Dance can lower the damage from Fire attacks, increase Speed, and and boost Water-using allies.
    Z-Tail Whip raises Attack and lowers both enemies Defense, opening them open for Rock Slide. Works best with a Tailwind/Trick Room ally.
    Z-Worry Seed raises Speed and cancel out a troublesome Ability on the opponent. You can also use this on an ally to remove a bad Ability (Slow Start, Truant) or replace a used-up Ability (Grassy Surge, Intimidate). Also, if the opponent uses Rest for sustain, Insomnia will ruin them.
    Z-Bulk Up adds a second Attack boost.
    Z-Roar, Z-Grassy Terrain, and Z-Toxic will patch up the lower Defense stat. Grassy Terrain doubly so if you have Grass Pelt.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  5. Archstaraptor

    Archstaraptor devolved.

    Gogoat finally has access to Grassy Terrain via USUM egg moves, so it no longer *needs* to be used in OU. I agree that Bulu pulls off offensive sets better with thanks to wood hammer and swords dance, but would say that unlike Bulu:

    1.Gogoat has a much better time breaking certain mons Bulu doesn't matchup well against. No weakness to steel is obvious positive, but chunking/KOing Celesteela and Skarmory with wild charge without *needing* to resort to z-moves or Swords dance boosts is something it has over bulu.
    It also gets Bounce, which can be useful for Amoonguss and Tangrowth, and has a nice chance to paralyse.
    2. No 4* poison weakness means it can sit in front of defensive grass types such as the above without too much fear, especially as;
    3.It also has better recovery in milk drink, not synthesis (both Goat and Bulu can get by with grassy terrain + horn leech, but milk drink is nice and consistent, and won't give you zero recovery if they switch in a grass resist).
    Basically, as a supportive mon, Gogoat has many draws in bulk, typing and coverage. Boosting set isn't too attractive to me. Sweet looking terrain setter in lower tiers, but still probs best used as a partner to Bulu if you use it in OU, as instant terrain is pretty darn important.
     
  6. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    OU is the last place I'd recommend giving Gogoat serious consideration, but it's currently the only tier I actively play and also the only tier I've actually used Gogoat in ironically enough. As I said several times in my post it's severely outclassed by a number of other options. Unless you find yourself in a situation where you NEED a Grass-type that can deal ~40% to Celesteela and you can't use a Z-Move or M-Venusaur you're better off running Bulu, Kartana, or again Mega Venusaur. Even then, 252+ Gogoat does roughly the same amount of damage as an unboosted LO Kartana Knock Off, so I'd put forth that even in that hyper specific circumstance Kartana still proves itself the better breaker.

    Bounce also isn't really enough to give it a niche either if you consider the fact that Tangrowth, Bulu, and Mega Venusuar all survive Z-Bounce (even Amoonguss isn't a guaranteed KO without Rocks), although I have to admit the idea of luring Tangrowth into a Z-Bounce to weaken it for your Zygarde or Ash-Greninja to pull of a sweep sounds hilarious if nothing else.

    That being said I have no idea how Gogoat fares in the lower tiers, but doing a bit of cursory research it seems... not well. Gogoat finds itself unranked even in PU, with grass types such as Shiftry, Alolan Exeggutor, and Leafeon apparently outclassing it, but being as I don't play PU I can't really offer any comment on that.
     
  7. Archstaraptor

    Archstaraptor devolved.

    I'm just pointing out the merits it does have, with OU context because Bulu seems to be an obvious partner for it. Indeed, Kartana may deal more damage per turn with a LO Knock off, but it cannot take more than one flamethrower. *Insert calc of Kartana dying to flamethrower here*

    Meanwhile, there's room to take a flamethrower from LO offensive Celesteela,even uninvested,so there's space to prepare for certain Celesteela builds if desired:
    0 SpA Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 0/0 Gogoat: 43.4 - 51.5%
    252+ SpA Life Orb Celesteela Flamethrower vs. 0/0 Gogoat: 76.2 - 90.4%

    In other words, with no hazards around, some Gogoat can sit in front of uninvested Celesteela flamethrowers and wild charge/ milk drink. Against more offensive variants such as autotomize you run into trouble with lifeorb airslash, but hey. My point was to say that Gogoat is a better answer than Bulu. Kartana gets sacked immediately after knocking off and removing the item, which is fine if you no longer need Kartana to win, but sucks otherwise.

    Would obviously agree with the statement that Kartana is a better breaker than Gogoat! Both mons work well in grassy terrain, Kartana excelling as an offensive sweeper whereas Gogoat as a tank, thanks to grassy pelt, recovery options, and special bulk.

    Gogoat's non-existant place in PU can be explained using gen7's terrain abilities. All terrains existed as moves ( bar psychic terrain) in X and Y, but the moves by themselves aren't too appealing. It was only in Sun and Moon when the terrain abilities appeared that they became an important aspect of almost every match in OU. Yes, Gogoat gets grassy terrain now, but it's in a tier without access to grassy surge, and so taking advantage of its boosted defences is awkward. Automatic terrain setup is convenient, and that's why people use it.

    This is a mon that fits a specific build nicely, but it currently isn't in a position to take good advantage of that build in its own tier. And it's not the only mon in this position ( as is evident with all the rain sweepers without drizzle below OU) .
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2018
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