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Community POTW #078

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Serebii

And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared...
Staff member
Admin
Time for the next Pokémon, and following the rigmarole of this week with Scyther, Scizor and Mega Scizor, the RNG spat out a relatively simple one

321.png


It's Wailord, the largest Pokémon in the game. It has ridiculous bulk and can be used quite amazingly

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/321.shtml

Go nuts
 

sSerenity

Well-Known Member
It can have sex with Skitty ! (Sorry I have to do it)

A not well useful Water type ... Only one "good" build ... The Scarf one

Wailord@Choice Scarf
Modest or Timid
252 Sp.Att/252 Speed
Water Spout
Hydro Pump/Surf
Ice Beam
Hidden Power Fire or Grass
 

Chinonso

Therians
Wailord isn't really a good Water type on its own, as there's not a lot it can do that other Water types can't.

Positives:
+ Pressure is a decent ability, especially when hit by low-PP moves.
+ Base 170 HP is the 4th highest of any Pokemon, behind Blissey, Chansey and Wobbuffet.
+ 90/90 attacking stats are decent.
+ Learns Heavy Slam, which can be good with its weight.
+ Lots of STAB water moves to choose from.

Negatives:
- Not a lot of Non-STAB moves to choose from (with the exception of Normal type moves)
- 45/45 defences are horrific. It's HP just about saves hit from consistent OHKO's.
- Speed lies in the Dead Zone at base 60 (too fast for Trick Room, too slow outside of it).
- Takes hefty damage from Grass Knot.
- Too difficult to use in battle.
- No reliable recovery.

Abilities:
Water Veil - This Pokemon cannot be burned. That's alright and all, but it's hidden ability is better. I guess you can't get burned if you wanna sweep with this thing.
Oblivious - This Pokemon cannot be under the Attract condition. No one ever uses it.
Hidden Ability:
Pressure - Opponent's Pokemon's PP usage is 2 per attack instead of 1. Kinda useful as it limits 5 PP moves and PP stalling becomes easier (with its insanely high HP).

Moveset
Harpoon Fishing
Scald
Ice Beam/Icy Wind/Clear Smog
Zen Headbutt
Heavy Slam

Item: Choice Scarf
EV's: 252 Atk, 252 SpA, 4 Spe
Nature: Naughty or Mild
Ability: Pressure

Send this thing in to slow Pokemon and do what you like. Icy Wind slows the opponent down, so that's useful in Doubles and Clear Smog stops sweepers by removing all stat changes (so make sure that there are no Baton Passers on your team). Heavy Slam is nice because of this guy's insane weight, and Scald because everyone loves burns and hates Water Spout (just kidding).
 

Missingno. Master

Poison-type Trainer
I Dream Of Skitty
Wailord@Leftovers
Adamant nature
Water Veil
252 Attack/252 HP/4 Defense
~Waterfall
~Earthquake
~Heavy Slam
~Zen Headbutt

Wailord looks cool, and has the whole "biggest Pokémon ever" thing going for it... and not much else. Decent attacking stats, unbelievable HP, but that's really about it. Waterfall is your STAB move. Earthquake, Zen Headbutt, and Heavy Slam are for extra coverage. Let me just take a moment so it can sink in on you how sad Wailord's movepool has to be if it needs a non-STAB Steel move for additional coverage.

Item helps Wailord recover HP. Ability stops burns from weakening it.

A Whale Of A Time
Wailord@Choice Scarf
Modest nature
Pressure
252 Sp. Atk/252 Speed/4 Sp. Def
~Scald
~Ice Beam
~Water Spout
~Clear Smog

...Ohhhh, boy. And we thought its physical movepool was bad? This one uses two Water moves and still lists all of Wailord's special options aside from Hyper Voice and Hidden Power. Well, anyway, Scald is for STAB and burning, Ice Beam is for coverage, Water Spout is for dealing heavy damage when Wailord is at full health, and Clear Smog is in case you're up against something that's been spamming the setup moves. And coverage of some sort, I guess, too.

Item helps Wailord outspeed other stuff. Ability helps foes waste PP.

Other options:
*If you're not too fond of relying on the gamble that is Heavy Slam, you can always go with Iron Head.
*As briefly mentioned in the Scarf set, Hyper Voice and Hidden Power are both options if you can squeeze 'em in.
*Avalanche is also an option on the physical set, but it's gotta be from Generation IV, meaning breeding an ideal Wailord with this move will be hard as hell.

Abilities:
*Water Veil: Wailord can't be burned. An obvious asset on the physical set.
*Oblivious: Wailord is unaffected by Attract, Captivate, and Taunt. Taunt immunity is always nice, but not so much on Wailord, considering I've yet to recommend a non-attacking move for it.
*Pressure: Wailord's Hidden Ability. When an attack is used against Wailord, the attacker loses 2 PP instead of 1. The go-to Ability for the special set, if only because the other options do nothing for it.

Partners:
Wailord needs all the help it can get if you want it to succeed. Or at least not fail pathetically. If you can pass some Speed boosts to it, you may be able to afford to forego the Choice Scarf on the special set, which will help it out. Alternatively, Sticky Web support works wonders.

Counters:
Mow Rotom can switch in on the physical set with impunity (unless it's running Avalanche, which is pretty rare) and likely OHKO with the STAB move of your choice. And that's just one off the top of my head- chances are you won't need to do anything special to your team to counter Wailord. Anything fast with respectable Attack or Special Attack and a super effective move will get the job done.

Opinion:
Wailord's pretty cool. Epic, epic fail in battle, but still cool.

Prediction for next week:
Delcatty. Yeah, that's right. I went there.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
Wailord @ Choice Specs
Ability: Water Veil
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Water Spout
- Ice Beam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Surf

Finally something I've used effectively in OU, this set works well with Sticky Webs as well as Volt Turn teams. Specs Water Spout is very powerful, Ice Beam is great for obviously switch ins while HP Fire gives you something to hit Ferro and other steel types. Surf is a secondary STAB move for when your HP is low. Water Veil is preferred here, mainly since you don't want to be taking extra damage every turn. It's a very easy Pokemon to use, and it's very easy to cover it's weaknesses (Grass, Electric) , solid attacking stats and an awesome HP stats which makes up for it's sub-par bulk but it's not really meant to take hit's so that's okay, the speed stat isn't good but it is certainly workable with proper support around it.

Wailord can perform in OU pretty well with a solid niche, has three great abilities and one of the more powerful moves in Water Spout. Give Wailord a chance and you'll be surprised on how good it is. This is it's best set and only viable set.
 
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Deltadromeus

Active Member
I really love Wailord, he is just so cool. It isn't super useful in battle, but if they Mega Evolve it, the screen will simply be blue. It would to too big for pokemon. Water Spout sets are potential, though very hard to use, so lets make use of dat health!

The Wailord of the Ocean

Wailord @ Leftovers
Oblivious
252 Def, 252 SpD, 4 HP
Impish (+ Def, - SpA)
-Curse
-Amnesia
-Rest
-Insert Filler Move Here (Heavy Slam, Waterfall, Iron Head, whatever you want)

This is probably one of Wailord's best sets, because he doesn't have much to go on. However, instead of being complete Taunt bait, Wailord gets Oblivious, and can eat taunts for days (and he won't randomly want to hump Skitty mid-battle). We aren't investing into his health because percentage-wise, fully investing into defense is the greater option. Health would go from 230 (at level fifty) to 277, a 20% increase, while Special Defense goes from 50 to 97, a 94% increase. Defense is increased by 92% (55 to 106), but the extra points help out a bit. The filler move is for hitting. I would prefer Iron Head, because is isn't truly walled by anything not named Shedinja, and it doesn't use Wailord's pathetic weight. You could use Waterfall, but be careful for Water Absorb and Dry Skin. Rest is your only form of healing (save leftovers and Water Veil, don't use Water Veil) and it clears out status, which is certainly worth the few turns of sleep.
 

Kraleck

Well-Known Member
Wailord. I've got mixed feelings about it. On one hand, it's a Water Type with high HP. On the other, it's a Water Type with low defenses.

Stats:
-HP - Incredible - Base 170 allows Wailord to get 101+ HP Substitutes with absolutely no investment whatsoever. Pity about its defenses being garbage. All meat and no bones...
-Attack - Good - Base 90 allows some oomph in your offense with STAB Waterfall, Heavy Slam, Body Slam, Avalanche, Zen Headbutt, Bounce, and Earthquake, to name a few.
-Defense - Awful-bordering-Bad - Base 45 does little favor for that sweet HP.
-Sp.Atk - Good - Base 90 does quite well with STAB Surf/Scald/Water Spout, Ice Beam, Clear Smog, and Hyper Voice, to name another few.
-Sp.Def - Awful-bordering-Bad - Base 45 rears its ugly head again.
-Speed - Dead Zone - Base 60 is pretty meh overall, but can help pull off a surprise Avalanche in and out of Trick Room.

Abilities:
-Water Veil - Ooh...Burn Immunity is always fun. Especially with Ghost Types flinging Will-o-wisp like a Mankey with so much poo...
-Oblivious - Ugh...Infatuation Immunity is far too situational to be useful. At least Oblivious was buffed to ignore Taunt.
-Pressure (Hidden, Available) - Mmm...doubled PP usage from Pokémon targeting you is always fun. At least you have the HP to work with it. Too bad about your defenses, though...

Overall, Wailord is a glass tank - high HP, low defenses. It can benefit greatly from Guard Split, so Double/Triple Battling alongside Shuckle is a nice option for Wailord to wreak havoc. Immunity to Burn via Water Veil is a nice thing, but Pressure also has merit and Oblivious helps with well-needed setup. Just beware of Pain Split and you'll be mostly fine.
 

Azulart

Shiny Hunter
Wailord @ Chesto Berry
Nature: Careful
Abillity: Water Veil
Ev's: 252 Sp.def / 140 Attack / 116 Def
- Waterfall
- Earthquake / Body Slam / Avalance
- Curse
- Rest

The abillity Water Veil gives him immunity to burn, this alone invites him for an physical approach since Will-o-wisp is very common in the meta.. Unfortunatly his only set-up move for an physical style is Curse, but a rest-curse set is possible for Wailord with his great HP bulk and acceptable offence pressure.

With this EV spread (Lvl 50) after one Curse it will have 192 Attack and 120 Defence combined with 106 Sp.def and 245 HP makes him quite bulky and offensive at the same time.
The set speaks for itself, Waterfall is his Main stab and the second move is an filler move, but an important filler move because Body Slam is the natural approach only purely checked by Jellicent
and does neutral damage to grass mons. Earthquake is for the pesky thunder types if you want to deal with them quickly, although my personal preference would be for Body slam because the parahax can be nice and the neutral approach is appreciated.
 

SaurusHam

Mawile w/ Fire Blast
Honestly, if your wailord doesn't have water spout then its not worth using over any other water type (minus favoritism bias) since that's the only thing that sets it apart in lower tiers, except octillery in TR but octillery wishes in could barely pull off a scarf set like wailord.

Wailord - choice scarf/specs
Nature: timid
Abillity: Water Veil
Ev's: 252 speed, 252 sp.atk, 4 hp
-water spout
-scald/hydro pump
-ice beam
-hp grass
 

Kraleck

Well-Known Member
Water Spout is a very interesting conundrum. On one hand, insane power at full HP. On the other hand, Wailord's garbage Speed and defenses. If you can get past those, Water Spout will wreck face. Otherwise, Wailord just over-played its hand...er, flipper.
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
Wailord can perform in OU pretty well with a solid niche, has three great abilities and one of the more powerful moves in Water Spout.

Yeah I'm not sure I'd agree with that statement. Now, I'll be the first to admit I've never used Wailord in OU, but then again I've never used Farfetch'd in OU but I can tell you that it's junk there too (lol).

It's certainly easy to be enticed by Water Spout's raw power since at full health, it packs a massive base 150 power. However... I should also point out that, assuming same item and EVs, Wailord's Water Spout only does about 6% more damage than Keldeo's Hydro Pump. In lower tiers, this is certainly more significant, but in OU, it's not that much bang for your buck considering Wailord is generally crummy in all aspects aside from HP and Water Spout. I mean, attacks not named Water Spout will be lacking in power, its speed is pretty poor for an offensive Pokemon, and those defenses do in no favors. It also can't really switch into anything given even the slightest bit of damage gradually weakens Water Spout. Once Wailord's lost about a quarter of its health, then Water Spout's damage becomes comparable to Hydro Pump's. Wailord needs a lot of team support to be even remotely usable, and once it starts taking damage, unless you're giving it Wish support, it's pretty much a done deal. Having to pretty much treat it with kid gloves is a bit of a hassle in OU. It's not much of a niche if even one at all.

...Also I'd say all three of its abilities are average at best. With Oblivious being pretty bad.
 
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Karxrida

Lost in the Waves
This thing is worthless. If you provided enough support you can theoretically make anything work, but why go to all that trouble when you can just use Keldeo (or if you're not playing by Smogon's rules, literally any other moderately strong Water-type) and call it a day? All I can see this thing doing is sweeping under Trick Room in Doubles/VGC, but then you have to deal with getting ganged up on and becoming worthless once you've taken enough damage.
 

ampfire101

Well-Known Member
Countering Wailord

Your best bet here is to use Grass Knot. The only problem is that Wailord can learn Amnesia, which can really be annoying if it manages to get one in. Also, many common users of Grass Knot like Roserade fall prey to Heavy Slam. Low Kick can also work here, as long as the user you use can one-shot it, because again, Heavy Slam is a burden, especially to common users like Weavile. Toxic + Super Fang can work wonders here, barring Wailord from releasing powerful Water Spout attacks, and Toxic can whittle away at what little health it has left. Crobat is rather good at putting this in action, and can Giga Drain at a large portion of Wailord's health to finish it off. Really, it's better to look at Wailord as a bank full of HP, with nothing more than barbed wire to protect it. You can either blow it up and destroy it (with things like Mega Lucario Close Combat or Roserade Grass Knot) or invade and steal the contents (with Iron Fist Conkeldurr Drain Punch or +2 Serperior Giga Drain [+2 coming from Leaf Storm]). If you choose the latter option, you may face things like Heavy Slam or Ice Beam, but Water Spout pretty much loses its value after a chunk of Wailord's health is sapped. Just don't underestimate this bank of HP though, as if you're too cocky, you might regret it.
 

Ckeen

Active Member
Wailord.......everytime I see this thing I think of a fat kid getting poked by a twinky....even if it has such high hp everytime I run into one in the maison i ohko it with greninja grass knot...other than that ive never used it or have seen anyone use it for anything, like ever. So yah all I can contribute is that anything that gets stab+life orb should be able to handle it no proplem. Also low kick can make it cry...
 
... I think Wailord is a lost cause for me. It was my HM slave. In my book it sucks. There are good ways to use Wailord but I don't know how to use them. It has a quite small movepool and it's stats could've been better. That's all I can really say.
 

Mye

Someone has to win..
Yeah, that's kinda its only niche as a pokemon. If it had something like softboiled/milk drink (a move which heals pkmn outside of battle) it'd have a huge niche being able to support the team through free healing and HM's. Sadly, outside of battle its almost entirely outclassed by bibarel as an HM slave.

Also, I'm guessing a prevo corner isn't entirely out of the question? While wailmer sucks quite a bit, if I remember correctly it's the only LC-legal pokemon with access to pressure which could give it some use on stall-based LC teams (could even work in something about how "wailmer pail s in comparison to other water types" ).
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
Wailmer @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Water Veil
Level: 5
EVs: 36 Atk / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Mild Nature
- Ice Beam
- Water Spout
- Surf
- Earthquake

A Wailer set i used back when i mained LC, Scarf Water Spout hits very hard for anything that doesn't resist it. And Mye stall really isn't a good playstyle in LC it's actually not something people should be running in that tier, Spam Water spout until you can't and just hit with other stuff afterwards it hits 17 special attack with those evs which is pretty solid overall. As a late game cleaner it's pretty awesome, just watch out for Chinchou and Foogus
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
Also, I'm guessing a prevo corner isn't entirely out of the question? While wailmer sucks quite a bit, if I remember correctly it's the only LC-legal pokemon with access to pressure which could give it some use on stall-based LC teams (could even work in something about how "wailmer pail s in comparison to other water types" ).

It's not out of the question, but Pressure isn't really a reason to use Wailmer in LC, it's still Water Spout all the way. Literally, Water Spout is the only reason to use Wailord/Wailmer at all... it just really doesn't have anything else to differentiate itself, as even its colossal HP is completely undermined by those horrid defenses. If you're using the whales, you should be using Water Spout.

...That said they're both still bad and outclassed by so many other water types, since once damage starts accumulating, Water Spout's usefulness drops like a rock.
 

ger9119

Well-Known Member
It's not out of the question, but Pressure isn't really a reason to use Wailmer in LC, it's still Water Spout all the way. Literally, Water Spout is the only reason to use Wailord/Wailmer at all... it just really doesn't have anything else to differentiate itself, as even its colossal HP is completely undermined by those horrid defenses. If you're using the whales, you should be using Water Spout.

...That said they're both still bad and outclassed by so many other water types, since once damage starts accumulating, Water Spout's usefulness drops like a rock.

Wailmer is very different in LC compared to Wailord in OU , there isn't a Keldeo running around that can out damage Water Spout. It's very good in LC, as the quick damage output it gets with scarf is great and punches holes in standard LC teams, even Surf hits hard in LC and if you wanted to run Specs it can do that also because hitting 15 speed is very decent . Hitting 17 SpA is very nice which is the same as Staryu only other water that hits harder than that is Clamperl. It's not totally outclassed by those two either, because Water Spout is such a powerful attack and even without it it's hydro pump or surf hits just as hard as Staryu's does. It get's a decent enough movepool for LC, with Earthquake hitting one of it's main counter Chinchou very hard and it can run Self Destruct as a quick suicide move. So it's not bad a bad mon at all, it's actually quite solid and can hold it's own against standard little cup teams that run stuff like Drillbur/Archen etc. LC is a quick paced metagame, where the games don't last very long so blasting something with Water Spout is effective because once you take enough damage your opponent will have taken some dents.
 
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KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
To be fair, Wailord's problems are more than just Keldeo outclassing it, since there's no Keldeo in UU or RU but it's still rubbish there. But that's neither here nor there.

As for Wailmer, in terms of viability, it's one of the lowest ranked Pokemon in the tier, and is a niche Pokemon at best. It's true that Wailord is on the high end of the special attack spectrum as far as water types are concerned in LC, and can make a decent cleaner late game with its Scarf set, I won't debate that. Other Water types just bring more to the table. It's worth noting that it finds competition from Remoraid, who despite having marginally lower SpA (16), manages to reach 17 speed, also boasts Water Spout, but also packs Fire Blast and can run a mixed set with Hustle Bullet Seed to break through other water types. Chinchou deals with other water types better due to its electric typing, granting it better coverage in general despite lower power, and it reaches the same speed tier (16 unboosted) on its Scarf sets. It also is able to run better defensive sets as well, and access to Volt Absorb allows it to better check not only itself but things like Staryu as well. Staryu's got a better base speed tier, packs Thunderbolt to beat other Water types (well, barring Chinchou of course), isn't screwed by paralysis thanks to , and has a bit more versatility thanks to Rapid Spin and Recover. Omanyte, Shellder, and Tirtugo can all run Shell Smash sets, and there's a whole host of water types running physical sets in LC that Wailmer doesn't try to compete with, such as Shellder, Carvanha, and Corphish. Wailmer's niche is, was, and always will be Water Spout, but it's a small niche and outside of it, it doesn't have a lot else to differentiate itself from the competition; even non-water types have a lot of popular Scarfers that can clean up late-game, and don't have their strongest STAB get neutered by prior damage. It does have respectable power on Surf or Hydro Pump, (I prefer Hydro Pump because Surf can miss the 2HKO on things like Pawniard), but the power is more comparable to other threats. Water Spout is how it differentiates itself, albeit in a high-risk, high-reward sort of way.

I'd question your set in a few ways though. For instance...

ger9119 said:
EVs: 36 Atk / 236 SpA / 236 Spe
Mild Nature

...Is inefficient because almost all of those EVs are wasted. On a Mild Wailmer, 196 EVs will maximize its speed, and even then, it only hits 15 speed, which in turn causes it to be outsped by Scarf Chinchou (who reaches 16 speed unboosted even with Modest) who can soundly 1HKO Wailmer with Thunderbolt, while Earthquake fails to 1HKO Chinchou, even only having about a 6% chance to do so with Stealth Rock up. This set, reaching only 15 speed, which equates to 22 with Scarf, causes it to be outsped by most boosted Pokemon, such as the infamous shell smashers of LC, all of which barring Tirtuga outspeed it, and even then your set only speed ties with Tirtuga after the Smash.

The SpA EVs also fall flat as well. Anything over 200 is wasted, 17 is as high as it's gonna go and it reaches that at 200 EVs. You also need 40 attack EVs to hit 14 attack, which is necessary to be able to have a shot at reliably 1HKOing Chinchou, given that with rocks at 14 attack, you bump that 6% chance up to about 56%.

Now, if you do want to run a mixed Scarf on Wailmer, most notably to be able to beat Croagunk which Special sets aren't really capable of doing (since HP Grass can 2HKO Chinchou on special sets), it'd end up looking more like 36 HP / 40 Atk / 200 SpA / 196 Spe. This'll get you that 14 attack, 17 SpA, and 15 speed that you need to maximize output on a mixed set. That said, I'd still prefer Timid on a Scarf set for its ability to reach 16 speed. But that's just me.
 
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