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Community POTW #097

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Serebii

And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared...
Staff member
Admin
Time for the next Pokémon of the Week!

pyroar.png


It's Pyroar, the intriguing Fire/Normal-type Pokémon introduced in XY

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/668.shtml

Go nuts
 

Aduro

Mt.BtlMaster
Ah Pyroar, one of my favourite 6th gen mons and Lysandre's awesome answer to Giovanni's Persian. Pyroar is given mixed some mixed blessings. An immunity to ghost moves and wisp is quite enviable. But with lacklustre defences it also risks losing lots of health when it switches in to non-stab attacks from the likes of Gengar (particularly focus blast). It has workable special attack but a predictable offensive movepool.

As for abilities, the Royal pokemon gets moxie, one of the best abilities for fast physical sweepers in the game, and decent physical moves (who would honestly predict a bounce from pyroar) but its great speed stat is marred by a horrible attack stat. On the other hand rivalry is gimmicky and luck-based so I guess go for unnerve to beat harvest users like Trevenant.



Lion Heart

Item: life orb
Ability: Unnerve

-Flamethrower/overheat/fire blast
- Dark Pulse/hp grass
- Hyper voice
- Will-o-wisp/toxic/yawn/endeavour

Modest, 252 SP. ATK 252 Speed 4 Def


EDIT: this set works similarly in doubles if you make its fire move heat wave. However weaknesses to surf, rock slide and quake make it generally even less viable in doubles.
 
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Swoobat

Well-Known Member
Pyroar is cool but its offensive movepool leaves a lot to be desired, relying on Fire Blast, Hyper Voice and Hidden Power. It also has bad bulk, is weak to Mach Punch and Aqua Jet, and in higher tiers it is outclassed by other Pokémon. But in tiers like NU, it shines due to being very fast and powerful. It tipically runs a very predictable but good set consisting of special attacks with a Choice item, or Life Orb. It's also cool to use a Power Herb + Solar Beam combo, bluffing a choice item to smack Rock-types that think they can set up on Pyroar.
 

Kraleck

Well-Known Member
Pyroar. I have one simple question: How did we go 5 Generations without a Fire-Type Lion Pokémon?

Stats:
-HP - Above Average-bordering-Good - Pyroar has a decent HP Stat for a Normal Type and a pretty nice HP Stat for a Fire Type.
-Attack - Below Average - Being a lion, you'd expect Attack to be the higher offense. Sadly, Base 68 falls short of that expectation.
-Defense - Below Average - Base 72 is not the best, but it's a decent one for a Fire Type.
-Sp.Atk - Great - Base 109 is the best Stat I've seen so far today. Plus, you have access to decent STAB Moves for each Type.
-Sp.Def - Mediocre-bordering-Below Average - ...and back to the suck. Base 66 is like a watered-down marinara: Weak sauce.
-Speed - Great (non-Trick Room) - Base 106 outruns many Pokémon Pyroar may have issues with. Not every one of them, but a decent share. However, Mach Punch, Aqua Jet, and Vacuum Wave will ruin your day.

Abilities:
-Rivalry - Offenses increased by 25% VS same gender and decreased by 25% VS opposite gender. Good, but far too risky to be competitively reliable.
-Unnerve - Opponents cannot consume Berries. Again with the unreliable, but more consistent in its effects.
-Moxie (Hidden, Available) - Attack buffed 1 stage when you score a KO with a Move (but not Status Effects). Great Ability, just not on Pyroar with that awful Attack.

Overall, Pyroar has some decent things going for it - a nice, defensive signature Move in Noble Roar, nice Special offensive capabilities, 6 Resistances, and 1 Immunity. However, Pyroar also got poor Ability options, 4 mostly-common Weaknesses, and a Movepool built for Physical coverage options and Special STAB. Seriously. The only Special options that aren't STAB Moves are Hidden Power, Solarbeam, Snarl, and Dark Pulse. Its Special options on the Normal-Type side are also Sound-based or Hyper Beam.

That said, Pyroar's "meh" Abilities make it able to use one of its Egg Moves to good effect: Entrainment. A gimmick, perhaps, but many Pokémon hate losing their much-needed Abilities (i.e. Sheer Force, Levitate, and Mold Breaker) while a few Allies enjoy losing their much-hated Abilities (i.e. Defeatist, Slow Start, and Truant).
 

Aduro

Mt.BtlMaster
That said, Pyroar's "meh" Abilities make it able to use one of its Egg Moves to good effect: Entrainment. A gimmick, perhaps, but many Pokémon hate losing their much-needed Abilities (i.e. Sheer Force, Levitate, and Mold Breaker) while a few Allies enjoy losing their much-hated Abilities (i.e. Defeatist, Slow Start, and Truant).

True, I totally missed entrainment. It could make a nice doubles set passing moxie to slaking or regigigas.
 

Missingno. Master

Poison-type Trainer
Pyroar's Best Set, I Ain't Lion To You!
Pyroar@Life Orb
Timid nature
Unnerve
252 Sp. Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
~Flamethrower/Fire Blast
~Hyper Voice
~Dark Pulse
~Flame Charge/Yawn

OK, first off, what happened to pre-evolution corner? You're not telling me they didn't think Trapinch- the Dugtrio of Trick Room- wasn't worth covering! Anyway, on to Pyroar- this thing's looks are nothing short of awesome, but its stats and moves are a whole other swarm of Yanma, lemme tell you. Flamethrower and Hyper Voice are for STAB (Fire Blast is an option over Flamethrower if you want the extra power). Dark Pulse is for extra coverage. Last move's your call. Flame Charge improves on Pyroar's Speed, whereas Yawn can put enemies to sleep and force switches.

Item powers up Pyroar's moves. Ability is the best it gets, which should tell you something about its other Abilities.


Other options:
*Pyroar gets Entrainment, which I suppose can work with its lackluster Abiliites- inflict them on an enemy in lieu of an Ability they actually like having. Also useful in Doubles- give Moxie to a physical attacking teammate.
*Its signature move, Noble Roar, deserves a mention. Lowers both Attack and Special Attack, not a bad option to force switches or weaken an enemy's final Pokémon.
*There's also Hidden Power if you just want a straight-up attacking set,

Abilities:
*Rivalry: Pyroar's attacks are 25% more powerful against Pokémon the same gender as Pyroar, 25% less powerful against Pokémon of the opposite gender, and just as powerful as usual against genderless Pokémon. Something to power up attacks is always welcome, but Rivalry is just way too situational and risky. Not worth it at all.
*Unnerve: When Pyroar is in the battle, enemy Pokémon cannot eat berries. Unnerve is Pyroar's best Ability, sadly. It's pretty damn situational, but still better than the other options.
*Moxie: Pyroar's Hidden Ability. When Pyroar knocks out a Pokémon, its Attack goes up by one stage. It is at this point I feel it my duty to point out that Pyroar has a base Attack stat of 68, which to me makes no sense for something based off of a lion. Yeah, no, unless you're gonna use Entrainment to give this to something that can use it in a double battle, stick with Unnerve.

Partners:
Anything you can think of. Rapid Spin support, SmashPassing, Stealth Rock support, the whole nine. I mean, Pyroar's not bad, but... it's not that good, either. It can really use all the help it can get.

Counters:
Special walls in general. Tyranitar, Carbink, and Diancie all resist anything Pyroar can throw at them (besides Hidden Power, depending on the type you go for), and can strike back with super effective Rock moves (well, maybe not so much Carbink, considering its low offensive stats, but Diancie and Tyranitar for sure).

Opinion:
Pyroar is very cool. It's just a shame the stats don't match, nor the movepool.

Prediction for next week:
Blastoise
 

Shinzan

Active Member
That said, Pyroar's "meh" Abilities make it able to use one of its Egg Moves to good effect: Entrainment. A gimmick, perhaps, but many Pokémon hate losing their much-needed Abilities (i.e. Sheer Force, Levitate, and Mold Breaker) while a few Allies enjoy losing their much-hated Abilities (i.e. Defeatist, Slow Start, and Truant).

Won't work on Truant as well as certain Forme-related abilities, Trace, and Imposter. But other than that, I agree with that sentiment. There's even a replay of a doubles match with Garchomp making 11 kills partly due to a Pyroar entraining Moxie to it.

Gazelle The King? of Mythical Beasts

- Overheat/Flamethrower
- Hyper Voice
- Solar Beam/Will-O-Wisp
- Sunny Day/Entrainment/Will-O-Wisp
Item Attached: Life Orb/Heat Rock
Ability: Rivalry
Nature: Timid
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SAtk / 4 HP

The first two moves are obligatory STAB moves which need no explanation. Third slot depends on what role you want to assign Pyroar. If you so desire an offensive presence, Solar Beam will allow Pyroar to hit its Fire weaknesses hard. If support is ideal, run Will-O-Wisp for long-term attack drop. Sunny Day should only be used if you're not running a Drought user on your team if Solar Beam is picked. Entrainment shuts down problematic abilities your opponent may use against you.
 

Aduro

Mt.BtlMaster
Won't work on Truant as well as certain Forme-related abilities, Trace, and Imposter. But other than that, I agree with that sentiment. There's even a replay of a doubles match with Garchomp making 11 kills partly due to a Pyroar entraining Moxie to it.

Still works on regigigas and archeops though. Come to think of it tyranitar would be ideal, setting up sand storm and maybe a dragon dance or rock polish and getting another useful ability right after it stops needing sand stream. Or weavile, Azelf, any fast sweeper with the potential to attack makes a good doubles partner.
 
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Just looking at Pyroar breaks my heart. I always wanted a lion-based Pokemon like this, and I was so excited to see it first announced...and this is the best they could come up with? So much potential wasted here. It's got a pretty nice Spe stat, and its SpA, while not great, is still solid enough. That's about where the good news ends, though. Its defenses are much too low to take hits reasonably, and its Atk stat is absolutely abysmal. Its typing is a double-edged sword that provides some unique offensive advantages and a few interesting defensive perks (for example, it's one of the few Pokemon in the game to be resistant/immune to Ghost STABs and not affected by Will-O-Wisp), but it also leaves it with a handful of common weaknesses, namely one to Stealth Rock.

And that's not even the half of it. Its movepool is stupidly shallow. Literally the only non-STAB special coverage moves it gets outside of Hidden Power are Dark Pulse and Solarbeam; the former offers little in the way of coverage, and the latter is simply impractical 90% of the time. Its physical movepool is considerably better, but you never really notice because Pyroar is a terrible physical attacker. It has just enough power and coverage between its STABs and Hidden Power to succeed in NU, but it needs something more than that to stand out among other offensive Fires in upper tiers. You know what would have really been awesome? Boomburst. I mean come on Game Freak, Pyroar's a lion! Lions known for their roar, and you already gave it Hyper Voice. Why not go all out and give it the best Normal STAB it could ask for? That alone may not make it good in OU or anything, but it would still boast the strongest Boomburst in the game, and one of the fastest too. Toss in a couple of new coverage moves and you'd have a pretty awesome wallbreaker.

The worst part is its collection of abilities, though. Rivalry was a nice gimmick back in the early BW days where Pokemon on simulators were defaulted to male unless the user manually changed them (which most didn't), but as is now it's far too risky to get any real use out of it. Moxie is just...really? Whose idea was it to put Moxie on a Pokemon with less Atk than a Furret and no strong physical Fire STAB to speak of? Unnerve is sadly the best that it's got, and even that's stupidly situational. Catching a Lum Berry user with Will-O-Wisp and denying its status recovery sounds nice until you realize that it can use the berry the next time Pyroar switches out anyway. ChestoRest sets are far and few between, and some of the few Pokemon in NU that use them include things like Malamar and Throh that decimate Pyroar with their Fighting STAB/coverage. Stopping slower Salac Berry users from getting their speed boost is neat, but these Pokemon tend to be offensive in nature, and Pyroar hardly has the bulk or typing to be taking them on.

You know what would be cool? Give Pyroar +10 base Spe, +20 base SpA, and maybe a little more bulk, give it Boomburst and an extra coverage move or two (like Energy Ball or Aura Sphere or something for those pesky Rocks), and give it an actually decent ability (it's a lion, so something like Intimidate sounds reasonable enough, or Adaptability if you wanna play Boomburst: The Video Game lol). Then see if that thing doesn't make a much bigger splash than it does now. Sorry to rant a little, but I really like this thing and seriously wish it were a lot better than it is. Missed opportunities Game Freak, missed opportunities.
 

ampfire101

Well-Known Member
Other options
-Snatch is a convenient move Pyroar can learn, even if it's really situational. But this fiery lion can really benefit from the effects of your opponent's Recover, Acid Armor, Quiver Dance, Nasty Plot, Agility and the like.
-Incinerate is a weak move to use, but with Unnerve, things like Rotom-W won't be able to eat a Sitrus Berry to regain health, Harvest users will have their items shut down for good, and if something like Excadrill or Scizor is holding an Occa Berry, you can remove that as well (though if you have the chance, you could really just remove the latter. Don't expect Scizor to stay in if a Fire-type like Pyroar is out)
-Fire Spin+Yawn is a deadly combo to do damage, trap opponents, and lull them off to sleep. However, this combo is better used by Torkoal, who has better bulk and doesn't have to use Snatch on a predicted Amnesia to increase its Special Defense. If you want to use status, just use Will-O-Wisp.
-If you really want to surprise your opponent, the physical set is an option, with Moxie and decent moves like Wild Charge, Bulldoze, Return, and Bounce, but the only physical Fire move it gets is Flame Charge. Not even Moxie can help that unless you knock out the rest of your opponent's team with it or with Baton Pass support. Easier said than done. Stick with Special.
-Dark Pulse is there for Starmie, the Lati twins, Claydol, Jellicent, Duskinoir, or Slowking, but that's about all
-HP Ground is necessary to face Heatran or any other Fire types, but some very threatening ones like Mega Charizard Y are immune to it and can OHKO with Focus Blast.
-HP Rock is for the Mega Charizard Y previously mentioned.
-HP Grass is for Suicune, Quagsire, and Swampert, but Water-types in general will kill Pyroar without HP Grass with ease otherwise.
-HP Ice is for Dragons like Hydreigon and Mega Salamence
-Choice Specs is a great item for Pyroar to have, as Specs Fire Blast will 2HKO Mega Kangaskhan and OHKO Mega Mawile and Specs Hyper Voice will bypass Substitute and 2HKO Garchomp.
-Snarl is a decent move, but it would probably work better on something with more useable bulk, like Arcanine.
-Entrainment+Moxie works wonders for attackers like Archeops in Doubles
I'll be honest, I was psyched when I found out there was going to be a lion Pokémon finally. But Pyroar was a disappointment. I thought it'd at least get Intimidate. Nope. Just Unnerve. I thought the Fire typing was appropriate for it. Until it also got Normal, and now things like Lucario, which may have been beatable, cream Pyroar with Close Combat. Yet even then, I thought it had a real chance at being scary in VGC. Not at all. The mediocre defenses and only acceptable Speed and Special Attack made me lose hope in competitive Pyroar. Again, if you want to use a competitive Fire-type that has four legs, try Arcanine or Heatran.
 

Aduro

Mt.BtlMaster
You know what would be cool? Give Pyroar +10 base Spe, +20 base SpA, and maybe a little more bulk, give it Boomburst and an extra coverage move or two (like Energy Ball or Aura Sphere or something for those pesky Rocks), and give it an actually decent ability (it's a lion, so something like Intimidate sounds reasonable enough, or Adaptability if you wanna play Boomburst: The Video Game lol). Then see if that thing doesn't make a much bigger splash than it does now. Sorry to rant a little, but I really like this thing and seriously wish it were a lot better than it is. Missed opportunities Game Freak, missed opportunities.

I really sympathise, but I'd rather see it get more HP than anything else, tons of normal types have great HP but pyroar's is just embarassing. No matter how fast it gets even in low tiers aqua jets and mach punches are common and will take out most of its health. Either that or it should have been given a special moxie. Its main potential is as a ghost buster though mismagius with power gem will ruin it because its defences are so bad and even Haunter 2HKOs easily with sludge bomb. Unnerve can be a nice surprise for exeggutor or trevenant though and pyroar aggravates dusclopses and spiritombs to some extent.
 

Mestorn

Wandering Battler
Putting down Pyroar

KOing Pyroar is pathetically easy. Common weaknesses and crap defenses means that Pyroar falls quickly... Unfortunately it hits quickly and hard as well. Rock types are Pyroar's biggest achilles heel. The resist both of Pyroar's STABs, get a sizeable SDEF boost during Sandstorm and can easily KO it with STAB rock attacks. Solarbeam is Pyroar's only answer to Rock types and that requires sun support, which can be difficult for Pyroar to obtain without team support. Outside of the afformentioned rock types, Priority moves are another good choice. Super-Effective or just plain strong priority attacks bypass Pyroar's greatest asset and down/maim it very quickly. Finally, Paralysis deprives Pyroar of its speed and turns it into setup fodder for the rest of your team.
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
Two things have surprised me in this thread; 1) I didn't realize so many people wanted a Lion Pokemon only to be let down by Pyroar, and 2) I can't believe Specs was barely mentioned in this thread, only once as an OO. It's Pyroar's most common set, narrowly edging out Life Orb at the top of the ladder. Your "standard" Pyroar, if you wanna call it that, looks a little something like:

Pyroar @ Choice Specs/Life Orb
Ability: Unnerve
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Fire Blast
- Hyper Voice
- Hidden Power [Grass]
- Filler: (Flamethrower / Overheat / Will-o-Wisp / Hyper Beam)

Here we have it, your standard Pyroar if for no other reason than the fact that it really doesn't have many other viable options. Fire Blast is Pyroar's best Fire STAB attack, with a high base 110 power, and a reasonable base 85% accuracy. Hyper Voice completed the STAB combo with being Pyroar's strongest normal STAB with no drawbacks (and also the ability to penetrate Substitutes). From there, you run into issues with Pyroar's limited movepool. Naturally, when your movepool is bad, Hidden Power becomes necessary for coverage, and for Pyroar, this is no exception. Grass is the preferred Hidden Power type, as it prevents things such as Rhydon, Kabutops, and Carracosta from having free reign with Pyroar. From there... Pyroar basically just has to pick a filler attack. Some might consider Dark Pulse given it's pretty much the only semi-decent special attack it has, but sadly, Dark Pulse doesn't really give you much in the way of coverage. Instead, Pyroar can opt for Flamethrower for a weaker, but more accurate alternative to Fire Blast if you absolutley cannot afford to miss. On the flip side, Overheat has some early wall-breaking prowess with its high power, and synergizes well with Specs sets. Just be sure you're packing hazard control because switching in and out to deal with Overheat's special attack drop is just asking for Stealth Rock to shred you. On the more supportive side of things, Will-o-Wisp can be used to bait in and neuter some of Pyroar's best checks and counters, including Regirock who otherwise puts a stop to Pyroar by only being 3HKO'ed by Specs HP Grass. Will-o-Wisp can also be a surprise option on a Specs set against those who might not expect it, although getting locked into it is a bit of a bummer. Finally, the most unconventional option would be none other than Hyper Beam. Under normal circumstances Hyper Beam is pretty bad, because you can outdamage it with Hyper Voice over two turns, and the recharge turn makes Pyroar prone to revenge killing or being set up on. However, with Pyroar's limited movepool, it can be an absolute last resort in a do-or-die situation. I wouldn't recommend it as your first choice, ever, but it's a niche option.

Timid Nature with 252 Speed EVs is pretty obvious for maximizing Pyroar's speed, and that base 106 speed tier is pretty solid for outspeeding things such as Mismagius, Cryogonal, and Scyther. The rest obviously gets dumped into Special Attack to maximize power. Unfortunately for Pyroar, none of its abilities are terribly good, given that Rivalry has the potential to decrease damage, and Moxie is pointless on a special attacker, given Pyroar's attack is so low. Unnverse is sadly the best it gets, and even then it's rather situational. With respect to items, Choice Specs is the most used to maximize Pyroar's power. However, Life Orb is an alternative to allow Pyroar to switch attacks, but between the recoil, poor defensive typing (including the weakness to Stealth Rock), and mediocre bulk, you might find Pyroar dying a bit more quickly than you'd like.

On an unrelated note...

You're not telling me they didn't think Trapinch- the Dugtrio of Trick Room- wasn't worth covering!

Trapinch is actually quite terrible. Even in the Little Cup, the only place where it's actually viable, it's ranked D in viability; i.e., it's overall bad with a slight niche.

Speaking of which, Litleo is also ranked D in viability in the Little Cup. Being weak to fighting is a huge problem when the tier is basically ruled by Mienfoo (among other fighting types).
 
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I really sympathise, but I'd rather see it get more HP than anything else, tons of normal types have great HP but pyroar's is just embarassing. No matter how fast it gets even in low tiers aqua jets and mach punches are common and will take out most of its health. Either that or it should have been given a special moxie. Its main potential is as a ghost buster though mismagius with power gem will ruin it because its defences are so bad and even Haunter 2HKOs easily with sludge bomb. Unnerve can be a nice surprise for exeggutor or trevenant though and pyroar aggravates dusclopses and spiritombs to some extent.

I mean, you could, but I'm not sure how much good that would do him. Pyroar would need a pretty hefty HP boost to make his bulk good, and even then, you'd still be better off switching out of super effective priority users rather than trying to sweep past them (especially seeing as how Pyroar is more of a wallbreaker than a sweeper anyway). If you really want to make a mediocre Pokemon good, your best bet is to build upon its natural talents. Just look at Mega Beedrill. Beedrill is one of the worst fully evolved Pokemon in the game, but when Game Freak went berserk on Mega Beedrill's Atk and Spe stats (and gave it a new ability, of course), they made it a legitimate threat even in upper tiers. Besides, if there's anything we've learned from Pokemon like Greninja and Mega Lucario, it's that you don't need good bulk as long as you have the raw offense necessary to do your job.

...not that any of this matters because Pyroar isn't likely to change much outside of a possible Mega Pyroar in 7th Gen or something, but it's fun to think about.
 

Aduro

Mt.BtlMaster
) I can't believe Specs was barely mentioned in this thread, only once as an OO. It's Pyroar's most common set, narrowly edging out Life Orb at the top of the ladder.
.

My first post was originally a specs one, but it actually has quite an interesting support move so I edited it a bit, endeavour for example should at least be an other option as many NU pokemon such as samurott it will face can't quite OHKO it and Pyroar's access to poison, sleep and burn on a speedy pokemon is quite threatening to switch into but those moves wouldn't work as well on a specs set.
 

KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
Samurott can't 1HKO it?

252 SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pyroar: 577-681 (184.3 - 217.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pyroar: 374-439 (119.4 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Aqua Jet may not be a 1HKO but it can do upwards of 75% with an Adamant Nature and Life Orb.

Of its status moves only Will-o-Wisp really warrants a mention. Toxic and Yawn may be inconvenient for sure, but Will-o-Wisp is a step above both given it monumentally screws over Pyroar's biggest counters; rock types. Even Regirock, who shrugs off a Choice Specs HP Grass by only being 3HKO'ed, absolutely hates Will-o-Wisp. Same deal with fighting types lacking Guts, who can otherwise threaten Pyroar pretty handily.

Endeavor is a somewhat... situational option. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's without merit, but it's risky for certain. The reason being Pyroar's not guaranteed to survive long enough to use it given its lack of bulk and stealth rock weakness. Even if it does, its common priority weaknesses (Aqua Jet from Samurott, Kabutops, Carracosta and Mach Punch from Gurdurr) can cause it to get picked off when Endeavor is at its most prime moment for usage.

Status/support moves may be useful for catching would-be counters off guard but at its core Pyroar's main job is wall-breaking and to a lesser extent late game cleaning with its decent speed tier. Specs aid it in that wallbreaking role, even if it has to forgo supportive moves... although on occasion you may see Will-o-Wisp on a Specs set for lure purposes.
 

Aduro

Mt.BtlMaster
Samurott can't 1HKO it?

252 SpA Life Orb Samurott Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pyroar: 577-681 (184.3 - 217.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Life Orb Samurott Waterfall vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pyroar: 374-439 (119.4 - 140.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Aqua Jet may not be a 1HKO but it can do upwards of 75% with an Adamant Nature and Life Orb.

Of its status moves only Will-o-Wisp really warrants a mention. Toxic and Yawn may be inconvenient for sure, but Will-o-Wisp is a step above both given it monumentally screws over Pyroar's biggest counters; rock types. Even Regirock, who shrugs off a Choice Specs HP Grass by only being 3HKO'ed, absolutely hates Will-o-Wisp. Same deal with fighting types lacking Guts, who can otherwise threaten Pyroar pretty handily.

Endeavor is a somewhat... situational option. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's without merit, but it's risky for certain. The reason being Pyroar's not guaranteed to survive long enough to use it given its lack of bulk and stealth rock weakness. Even if it does, its common priority weaknesses (Aqua Jet from Samurott, Kabutops, Carracosta and Mach Punch from Gurdurr) can cause it to get picked off when Endeavor is at its most prime moment for usage.

Sorry, I meant it usually isn't usually OHKO'D with aqua jets and mach punches, I should have been clearer. If someone is using Pyroar they're probably going to be trying to wallbreak as you said, but its sometimes nice to have another use for a speedy pokemon if only for the element of surprise to ruin whatever is about to KO it. It might be worth losing a little damage dealing potential and dark pulse to add a status move.
 
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KillerDraco

Well-Known Member
It might be worth losing a little damage dealing potential and dark pulse to add a status move.

Actually it's very rarely worth it to carry Dark Pulse at all. A neutral fire blast outdamages a 2x SE Dark Pulse, and the only thing in NU I can think of off the top of my head that would take more damage from Dark Pulse than Fire Blast / Hyper Voice / HP Grass (Thick Fat Grumpig) is still only 3HKO'ed at best by Dark Pulse, so it's not a huge niche. Most of the time that Pyroar does carry Dark Pulse, it's just out of lacking other significant options rather than as merit for Dark Pulse's actual usefulness.
 

Swoobat

Well-Known Member
Please no Entrainment, not even in Doubles, that sounds good on paper but against a decent player it is horrible, and in singles, Pyroar is better off just attacking, it's too fragile to spend a turn doing that. And when the opponent switches out they recover their ability. For using Entrainment, Will-O-Wisp is a much better option, for burning some typical Pyroar checks.
 
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