Community POTW #108

[Serebii]

Time for the next Pokémon and we have an absolute classic this week

It's Golem, the original Rock/Ground-type who also was one of the trade evolutions that people coveted back in the original days.

Despite that, Golem is still surprisingly usable

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/076.shtml

Go nuts

 

[Aduro]

Much like the pet rock, golem hasn't aged well in anything but an ironic way, and indeed was never the best toy. It does have an inexplicable charm however.

+ 120 ATK is very impressive
+Golem has a decent physical movepool with stone edge, earthquake, superpower, a good weight for heavy slam, explosion, facade, thunder punch and iron head.
+ Stealth rocks and sturdy are a winning combination
+ Rock polish mitigates its abysmal speed to some extent.
+80 HP and 130 defence make for excellent physical bulk.
+ 4 resistances is nice as is the immunity to electric
- That fighting weakness is more serious with focus blast and aura sphere around to take advantage of its poor sp. Defence. Flash cannons and earth power havent helped either.
- In low tiers a weakness to grass is a major problem
- surf is also major problem in doubles
- strong against fire but it cant take a burn
- rock head and no head smash is just mean
- its too slow for something so weak to grass.
- all that physical bulk wont help with lacklustre recovery



Classic Rock
Item: Cutsap Berry
Adamant nature, 4 HP, 252 attack, 252 Defence
Ability: Sturdy
- Stealth Rock
- Explosion
- Stone Edge
- Earthquake

Pretty simple suicide lead set and the most use Golem has ever really got. Golem sets up rocks and lets its sturdy break, goes down to below 50% and custp berry allows one last big hit with explosion or another attack before it gets revenge killed. EQ can also surprise anyone trying to taunt before you can hit rocks while stone edge is better against ghosts like haunter. Unfortunately the explosion nerf has hit golem hard, as has team preview which made dedicated leads less useful. And it wasn't great even back in gen v as sturdy often broke thanks to hazards, hail etc. and custap doesn't help beat priority.

 

[Mestorn]

Emet

Golem, the typical rock type. Has everything you would expect. Sky high DEF, respectable ATK, crappy Specials and lack luster SPD. Golem's Rock-Ground type does it no favors, giving it 2 double weaknesses in the form of Grass and Water. That combined with poor special bulk and speed means that many pokemon can come in and OHKO it, or at least force Sturdy to go off. Grass types like Torterra, Leafeon, Gourgeist, Tangela, and Meganium can easily come in and eat an attack before outspeeding and OHKOing with a STAB move (though a Crit Stone Edge may severely damage them). Other Grass types are just as viable to OHKO Golem, but lack the physical bulk necessary to eat a Stone Edge or the occasional Steamroller. Gorebyss, Huntail, Relincanth, and Wartortle can come in an eat an attack and OHKO back with a STAB water move (though it must be stressed that they can take an attack. Stone Edge 2HKOs all of them, and no other water type in PU fares as well. Users of Bullet Seed (Torterra), and Mold Breaker (Rampardos) are especially recommended, as many Golem run Sturdy, preventing OHKOs and allowing Golem to give its opponent a painful parting shot. That being said, for a Golem that has had its Sturdy broken, the list of things that check it is ludicrous. Golem is a pokemon with very real strength and weaknesses. A smart player can use Golem to terrifying effectiveness. Most other people can take advantage of its weaknesses and turn "truth" back to "death".

 

[Kraleck]

Golem. A classic among classics. Not the greatest Rock Type, but practically the one everyone wanted to use in the early days because of how early Geodude was found.

Stats:
-HP - Above Average - Base 80 is a bit better than my Average, but with 2 double Weaknesses, you want all you can get. Fortunately, Sturdy helps get around the not-so-good-not-so-bad HP.
-Attack - Godly - Base 120.
-Defense - Incredible - Defense is huge among Rock Types for good reason. Base 130 helps bolster your middling HP.
-Sp.Atk - Bad-bordering-Mediocre - Base 55 is absolutely laughable, especially with as few Special options as Golem gets. At least Mud-Slap and Incinerate have a modicum of utility.
-Sp.Def - Mediocre-bordering-Below Average - Base 65 is a huge crack in Golem's defensive capabilities. At least Sandstorm bolsters Sp.Def for Rock Types.
-Speed - Good (Trick Room) - Base 45 is pretty good for Trick Room and Gyro Ball, plus Sucker Punch can be used to bypass it.

Abilities:
-Rock Head - Great Ability for use with Double-Edge. Useless otherwise. A pity that Golem doesn't get Head Smash.
-Sturdy - Wonderful Ability. At max HP, you cannot be KO'd unless the attacker has Mold Breaker (or equivalent), just brought to a minimum of 1 HP. You also have immunity to Moves that outright KO, but those are almost never used (gimmick KO sets are just that).
-Sand Veil (Hidden, Available) - A nice Ability since Sandstorm already bolsters your Sp.Def, but not reliable. Still, it can slip up a few attackers if you're lucky.

Overall, Golem is a decent Rock Type with options for its low Speed that often becomes a paperweight while waiting to Evolve from Graveler. Huge Physical Stats and a 85%-90% Physical Movepool make Golem as much of a wrecking ball as it is shaped like one. That said, outside of Sturdy, you need Assault Vest (and preferably Sandstorm) to decently survive a Special hit that isn't Grass- or Water-Type. Even with Sturdy, an unlucky Burn from Scald will always ruin your day and entry hazards are a must to eliminate.

 

[Specialbeamcanon]

Weakness Polishy
Golem@Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy
Jolly/Adamant(Jolly would be preferred if running PuP)
6HP/252Atk/252Speed
-Rock Polish
-Stone Edge
-Earthquake
-Sucker Punch/Power Up Punch

If your facing a passive opponent or an opponent you can threaten, polish away or PuP on a potential non ghost switch in. A threat that doesn't resist your STAB combo would be complete bait to trigger the policy and polish if you used PuP first. Just be wary of priority such as Aqua Jet and Bullet Punch users that will halt your sweep if your weakened enough for the KO.

 

[SaurusHam]

This is the set I always default to whenever I need to use golem for something:
Golem - Custap Berry
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge/Rock blast
- Sucker Punch/Explosion
Standard layout for a lead rocks pokemon.
Dual stab is obvious, the choice between rock blast and stone edge is whether or not you want to break subs and sash pokemon. Also with its speed it out-paces base 65s like pelipper in PU.
I always found that the most unique thing about golem compared to its other rock buddies is its access to sucker punch which lets it ignore its pitiful speed altogether and score some surprise or game winning kills if left alive. So most of my golems utilize sucker punch instead of explosion which is also a very great option to almost guarantee a kill, gain momentum, and prevent hazard removal from the likes of armaldo, togetic, and the aforementioned pelipper just by dying. I feel the choice between sucker and explosion comes down to how you play your golem, while I like to have golem be a staying force throughout the game by having sucker punch or custap earthquake be a looming threat others may choose to get rocks very early and then explode taking a pokemon with them and getting another pokemon in as soon as possible to continue pressure.
Sturdy is to let it live at full and synergizes with custap to gain priority on any of its moves.

 

[Ask]

Golem is a rather odd choice when it comes to battling. It has a good ability for the job it can do best, but sadly doesn't have the best typing for it.

My Precious

252 Attack/Speed?
Adamant Nature
Sturdy Ability
Custap Berry/Leftovers

Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Rock Blast
Earthquake
Stealth Rock
Explosion

This is basically how you'll see most Golems, if you see one at all. Earthquake is your main STAB. Stone Edge and Rock Slide also are, unless you want to break sashes, subs, and sturdy with Rock Blast. But, Golem's main purpose is to set up rocks and explode.

The Classic Pet Rock

252 HP/Attack (or 252 Spe/Attack, if you're running Autotomize)
Adamant Nature
Sturdy
Life Orb

Thunder Punch/Fire Punch/Iron Head/Superpower/Autotomize
Another one of the moves above
Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Rock Blast
Earthquake

This is a less used (almost) all-out offensive Golem. The Rock and Ground moves have the same purpose as they did in the last set, being your dual STABs, the four other attacking moves are for coverage, and Autotomize is to potentially sweep.

 

[Azulart]

Golem is a classic mon that is easy to use in terms of sets.
In Singles its either the WP set or the Custap-lead set so pick your choice, try something else and its outclassed by others.
(Also plz don't use Life orb on it as that ruins the whole concept of Sturdy)

So.. can Golem be used in VGC?

Yeah sure.. but even there it has two picks. Go for Trick room or go for Max speed.
Either way here is the Golem I would use in VGC.

Golem @ Lum Berry / Weakness Policy
Ability: Sturdy / Sand veil (In case your running Trick Sand.)
Nature: Brave
EV's: 252 Attack, 252 Sp.defence
- Rock Slide / Stone Edge
- Earthquake
- Wide Guard / Explosion
- Protect

Lum berry is there to avoid Burns in order to make Sturdy active a bit longer.
no HP iv's are given due not being very important with Sturdy and reduces the recovery of moves like Drain punch, Giga drain or leech seed etc.. when it gets hit.
The idea is simple, your partner does Trick Room and you can either protect or do a move if you predict your opponent thinking protect is obivious and decide what to do next with its
duel stab options or when golem is not needed anymore explosion does well.. Wide guard is sweet in VGC but mind you that people are aware of this and moves like Rock Tomb and Drill run got more popular.. thats it, very simple. --- The other set gets the same mention but then with 252attack and 252speed and Adamant nature.

Give golem a try but the only thing that makes him unique in doubles is its added ground type which has its pros and cons..
A pro is activating WP better in doubles.. but golem can be double targeted making it a wasted potential, still tho its worth mentioning.

but for me personally Gigalith and Probopass are much better options with similar jobs.

 

[KillerDraco]

but for me personally Gigalith and Probopass are much better options with similar jobs.

Nah, despite being a lackluster Pokemon, Golem actually outclasses both Gigalith and Probopass. The electric immunity and STAB Earthquake give it the edge over Gigalith, and the actual offensive presence makes it preferable over Probopass. In a twist of fate, Golem's biggest competition in Gen 6 is the same competition that it had in Gen 1; Rhydon. Thanks to Eviolite it gets considerably better bulk, and of course still has the innately higher attack stat. Plus, with Explosion being nerfed, one of Golem's main selling points has been worsened. That said, it does have the niche of Sturdy, so it's not completely outclassed by Rhydon... but Rhydon is certainly more viable and more used.

...And in higher tiers, it goes without saying that Rhyperior outclasses Golem as well.

 

[Alita54]

What nerf did explosion get again?

 

[Psynergy]

What nerf did explosion get again?

Before Gen 5, Explosion's damage halved defense when hitting the opponent, so it was effectively twice as strong as it is now. That being said, Explosion isn't necessarily a bad move now, but it's not nearly as effective at taking down an opponent with it anymore.

 

[KillerDraco]

To help put it in perspective for those who prefer to see numbers...

Gen 4:
252+ Atk Golem Explosion vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 244-288 (71.3 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Gen 5:
252+ Atk Golem Explosion vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Tyranitar: 122-144 (35.6 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

And this is on something that resists explosion with 100/110 physical bulk. But as you can see, the drop in power that came with the nerf is highly noticeable. Before, unless you were something ridiculously bulky and had a normal resist (or were a Ghost type), eating an Explosion was devastating. You could slap Explosion onto basically any set as a "last resort" move when you know your Pokemon is going to be KO'ed or isn't going to be able to switch in again, and could often result in taking down your foe with you. Nowadays, it's not quite the nuke that it used to be, but it's still got a fantastic 250 base power behind it. Plus, if anything, with the advent of improved Sturdy and Custap Berry, it's certainly easier to use a well-timed Explosion, even if it doesn't quite have the same kick that it used to.

 

[Missingno. Master]

Rock 'n' Roll!
Golem@Weakness Policy
Adamant nature
Sturdy
252 Attack/252 Speed/4 HP
~Rock Polish
~Earthquake
~Rock Slide/Stone Edge
~Fire Punch/Sucker Punch

This set turns Golem's numerous weaknesses into an asset with the help of Sturdy and Weakness Policy. Use Rock Polish on the same turn the enemy uses one of many attacks Golem is weak to, that's the equivalent of a Shell Smash, minus the stat drops, right there. And from there, you sweep. Earthquake and Rock Slide are for STAB (Rock Slide can be replaced with Stone Edge if you're feeling like taking risks... well, more risks than usual, considering you'd be using Golem). Fire Punch is for extra coverage, though if whether it's from Generation VI isn't an issue, Sucker Punch is its only priority option, could be useful against enemies packing priority moves of their own.

Item and Ability help raise Golem's Attack.

Don't Take Golem For Granite
Golem@Custap Berry
Adamant nature
Sturdy
252 Attack/252 HP/4 Sp. Def
~Stealth Rock
~Explosion
~Earthquake
~Roar/Stone Edge

This is a suicide lead- basically, lead with Golem. Set up Stealth Rock, enemy attacks, likely activating Sturdy because lol Rock/Ground as a defensive typing. And then, Custap Berry kicks in, and suddenly you're packing priority Explosion. Or Earthquake or Stone Edge, if you think either one of those moves will have a bigger impact on whatever enemy you might be up against. Roar is also something to consider, get the Stealth Rock damage rolling. Get it? Rock? Rolling? Ehh, forget it, I already did that pun. Anyway, though, Roar's an option worth putting in there, even if only as filler- let's face it, Stealth Rock and Explosion are the stars of this set.

Item and Ability have been covered.


Other options:
*Golem gets Autotomize, which is basically the offspring of Rock Polish and a diet plan. It's actually worth considering over Rock Polish if you're looking to reduce the damage Golem's gonna take from Low Kick. Grass Knot, on the other hand, that's a whole other swarm of Yanma right there. If you think Golem using Autotomize is gonna stop Grass Knot from killing it to death, you got another think coming. Then again, by the time Golem gets to use the move, odds are Sturdy will have kicked in already, so breeding for Autotomize should really only be a matter of one of the parents you chose just happening to know that move.
*Considering how much time Golem will be spending with 1 HP, Flail's an option worth considering, especially on the Custap Berry set, but then, you know it's only gonna get one shot at attacking before getting KO'd anyway, and Explosion is just stronger, so yeah. I mean, maybe if you fear Damp, but let's be honest here- nobody in their right mind runs that travesty of an Ability anymore!
*Golem gets Heavy Slam and is fat enough to pull it off, but it gets good coverage as it is- no real need to stoop to Steel moves. Leave the Heavy Slamming to Mega Steelix.
*If you don't mind transferring up from a Generation III game, Counter's not a bad option to use with Sturdy. That said, any Trainer worth their salt knows to target Golem's Special Defense whenever possible, so this might not be a wise option.

Abilities:
*Rock Head: Golem does not sustain recoil damage from moves that inflict it, except for Struggle or Shadow Rush in Colosseum. Life Orb recoil is still applied, as well as crash damage from Jump Kick and High Jump Kick. Not a bad Ability in and of itself, but Golem's only recoil move is Double-Edge, and you'll notice from the first set I posted that it's got solid coverage without any Normal moves. Yeah, no.
*Sturdy: If Golem is at full health and takes a hit that ought to OHKO it, it instead survives with 1 HP. Moves that automatically OHKO targets outright fail against it. This does not prevent Golem from OHKOing itself with a move like Self-Destruct or Explosion. Easily Golem's best Ability, considering the agonizingly common 4x weaknesses and the subpar Special Defense. This should be the only Ability of Golem's you should seriously consider, ever.
*Sand Veil: Golem's Hidden Ability. Golem's evasiveness is boosted by one level during a sandstorm. Pretty underwhelming for a Hidden Ability if you ask me. Stick with Sturdy.

Partners:
Golem's gonna lure in special attackers like nobody's business, so you might wanna be packing something that can take special attacks. Chansey and Blissey are well suited for such a role. Oh, and Rapid Spin support is a must if your Golem's not a lead- those pesky entry hazards screw with Sturdy, and if Sturdy's lost, Golem's more screwed than a Shedinja in a Hippowdon nest.

Counters:
Got Mold Breaker and Aqua Tail? You're a Golem counter. Packing Bullet Seed or Water Shuriken? You're a Golem counter. Special attacks in general? You're a Golem counter.

Opinion:
Golem's a classic. Not the best, but it's pretty cool.

Prediction for next week:
Seviper.

 

[Azulart]

Nah, despite being a lackluster Pokemon, Golem actually outclasses both Gigalith and Probopass. The electric immunity and STAB Earthquake give it the edge over Gigalith, and the actual offensive presence makes it preferable over Probopass. In a twist of fate, Golem's biggest competition in Gen 6 is the same competition that it had in Gen 1; Rhydon. Thanks to Eviolite it gets considerably better bulk, and of course still has the innately higher attack stat. Plus, with Explosion being nerfed, one of Golem's main selling points has been worsened. That said, it does have the niche of Sturdy, so it's not completely outclassed by Rhydon... but Rhydon is certainly more viable and more used.

...And in higher tiers, it goes without saying that Rhyperior outclasses Golem as well.

Yeahh.... Totally agree with you there if were talking Singles and Smogon tiers but I recall High lighting the VGC in my post and tiers are irrelevant there.

Anyway my sets and opinion about his role and other mons are meant for VGC. You cannot compare a bulky attacker like rhydon and rhyperior with Golem, even with similar types.
The Rhy's don't have Wide guard and don't have Sturdy and its actually better for them to not max their attack and spend some EV's in bulk which on Golem is useless and wasted.

Golem can't be used to long on the field unlike Rhyperior and Rhydon who can stay longer on the field if used correctly and have either the Eviolite or Solid Rock (Assault vest) Support making them actually take a few hits more. Golem works differently with acces to wide guard and takes a more supportive role because it, something Probopass and Gigalith do aswell, they can actually protect your team from EQ or Hyper voice (And also take less damage from Hyper voice in general) while the Rhy's can't, my reason to prefer Probopass and Gigalith is because they don't have that 4X weakness against water & grass and have better SP.def which is more of an benefit than High defence in the Doubles meta. Gigalith mainly can hit just as hard and actually has better bulk too.. also Gravity is an option for it too to further add its support options and to use Stone Edge or Earthquake with more ease.

 

[KillerDraco]

Problem is that Golem is pretty bad in Doubles even with Wide Guard. If you really wanted a supportive-centric-user of Wide Guard, you might as well use classic Hitmontop, who packs Intimidate and Fake Out as well. In fact, none of the Pokemon you mentioned (Golem, Gigalith, and Probopass) are viable at all... Especially Probopass; it's just too passive in Doubles. If you're looking for a user of Wide Guard, you've got much better options 99% of the time, such as Aegislash, Swampert, Hitmontop, and even Machamp. And since tiers are a non-factor, there's really nothing to stop you from using them.

Sturdy is something of a mixed bag in Doubles as well. While it's true that the threat of hazards is practically a non-factor, Fake Out is more abundant for breaking Sturdy as well.

Either way, you really can't unironically say Probopass outclasses anything in doubles. Especially since you're trading Golem's 4x weaknesses to water and grass for Probopass's 4x weaknesses to fighting and ground, and as mentioned, Probopass is so passive that it just sort of sits there, since it lacks many of the best supportive options in Doubles outside of Wide Guard. Gigalith and Golem are a little better than Probopass in doubles but both are really just bad surprise gimmicks, nothing more.

 

[Azulart]

Problem is that Golem is pretty bad in Doubles even with Wide Guard. If you really wanted a supportive-centric-user of Wide Guard, you might as well use classic Hitmontop, who packs Intimidate and Fake Out as well. In fact, none of the Pokemon you mentioned (Golem, Gigalith, and Probopass) are viable at all... Especially Probopass; it's just too passive in Doubles. If you're looking for a user of Wide Guard, you've got much better options 99% of the time, such as Aegislash, Swampert, Hitmontop, and even Machamp. And since tiers are a non-factor, there's really nothing to stop you from using them.

Sturdy is something of a mixed bag in Doubles as well. While it's true that the threat of hazards is practically a non-factor, Fake Out is more abundant for breaking Sturdy as well.

Either way, you really can't unironically say Probopass outclasses anything in doubles. Especially since you're trading Golem's 4x weaknesses to water and grass for Probopass's 4x weaknesses to fighting and ground, and as mentioned, Probopass is so passive that it just sort of sits there, since it lacks many of the best supportive options in Doubles outside of Wide Guard. Gigalith and Golem are a little better than Probopass in doubles but both are really just bad surprise gimmicks, nothing more.

What I tried to say is that Golem considering stat wise, typing and job is best comparable with Gigalith and Probopass ( Although probopass is arguable able I admit that )
The mons you mentioned just have similar jobs, which is a good way of thinking don't get me wrong but I gave thought towards similar typings aswell.

As for the probopass story.. gotta disagree with you there, I found it functioning excellent in a VGC sun team considering Magnet Pull can be used in a great way in the sun with a Fire partner, also Ferrothron, metagross and Aegislash really hate to be stuck on the field with a fire type on the opposing team, not to mention Probopass can actually carry HP fire too and is able to spread T-waves aswell, chople berry is great item for it and EQ's can be blocked with WG to slightly cover its weaknesses

You never heard me say Golem is "viable" I just say it can be used in VGC if you want.. since every mon can be used in VGC (when played correctly )
and I just came with a set that seems the best for him if you want to bring it to doubles.. You never heard me say it's a great choice or anything, I found myself
rather negative about him when I wrote his sets.

 

[Aduro]

You never heard me say Golem is "viable" I just say it can be used in VGC if you want.. since every mon can be used in VGC (when played correctly )
and I just came with a set that seems the best for him if you want to bring it to doubles.. You never heard me say it's a great choice or anything, I found myself
rather negative about him when I wrote his sets.

Viable literally means "capable of working successfully" and even in VGC some are rarely viable at all because they're largely outclassed (possibly by a bipedal rhino with solid rock). Still, if we get a pokemon that isn't viable the only meaningful discussion is to talk about its best qualities and weaknesses as though it was, because plenty of POTW readers might want to play with it simply to enjoy, or in the contexts where it might be viable which in Golem's case is probably mainly in low-tier singles. For example even if we don't talk about the tiers, its better to use calcs that compare the POTW to opponents its likely to battle in them like Golem vs. Gurdurr and Mesprit rather than Breloom and Alakazam.

 

[ampfire101]

Countering Golem

Grass-Types can essentially render Golem useless, forcing a switch. A good example is Torterra, who resists both of Golem's STABs and can bypass Sturdy with Bullet Seed. It can even tank an Explosion, which is always useful. Poliwrath is a good example of a Water-Type that can get the job done with Waterfall. In VGC, it is basically a weaker version of Rhypherior except for Sturdy and Wide Guard. Golem faces even more trouble with Water-Types like Suicune, Jellicent, Milotic, Rotom-W, Ludicolo, and Politoed, who a name for themselves in the metagame (they can even get burns with Scald, as if a special water attack wasn't already bad enough for Golem). Other good counters include Landorus-T, Excadrill, Mega Metagross, Garchomp, Amoongus, Virizion, Aegislash, and Terrakion. However, it can do a bit of work in Trick Room teams, as the common user Cresselia is immune to Earthquake, and it can outspeed Mega Charizard Y, Zapdos, and Thundurus to pick up a ton of damage if not KOs with Stone Edge or Rock Slide, so be wary of it. But even in Trick room, Golem isn't safe. Amoongus and Mega Camerupt can counter it there, and should they survive an Earthquake, so can Mega Mawile and Bisharp.