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Community POTW #112

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Feb 17, 2013.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Time for the next Pokémon of the Week. This time, we've been given the selection of an incredibly common Pokémon on VGC teams

    [​IMG]

    Hitmontop is the more commonly seen of the Hitmon-family, and is capable of quite a lot. Even outside its usual Fake Out use, it can be a very formidable Pokémon.

    http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/237.shtml

    Go nuts
     
  2. Lucario Fan

    Lucario Fan Well-Known Member

    Ability: Technician
    Item: Focus Sash
    Moves: Fake Out, Rock Slide, Close Combat, Agility
     
  3. SkyDriver

    SkyDriver Hiding in the grass

    Hitmontop @ Life Orb
    Technician
    Adamant
    252 Hp/252 Atk/4 Def
    -Fake Out
    -Sucker Punch
    -Rapid Spin/Bullet Punch
    -Mach Punch

    The most reliable revenge killer available IMO. Fake out takes about 33% from an average sweeper like starmie, latios, which it finishes of with Sucker Punch. Rapid Spin can support, while Bullet Punch gets Gengar weakened b4 the sub. Mach Punch is the STAB move of choice that KO's Terrakion after SR and a layer of Spikes.

    Other options:
    Bulk Up
    Triple Kick
     
  4. OceanicLanturn

    OceanicLanturn Non non non!

    Eh, I think I've used Hitmontop somewhere in my RMTs which I made *searches*

    Oh, scratch that. I've used it on two teams before! *gets hyped up*

    Right, hmm, Hitmontop has really good abilities, as a cool little opener. Intimidate and Technician are both godly good. Anyways, this gives Hitmontop a lot of options. I'm gonna go for the spinner first:

    Rapid Spin Hitmontop (you don't say?)
    Hitmontop @ Leftovers
    Ability: Intimidate
    Nature: Impish
    EVs: 252 HP/252 Def/4 Atk
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight
    - Sucker Punch/Stone Edge
    - Close Combat

    Ya-di-ya di. Spin + Foresight = yay. Sucker Punch deals with attacker ghost, while Stone Edge rips through Chandelure. Close Combat is stab. although 40 hp sucks, it has good def (with Intimidate) and sp.def to work with.

    And, techni-top! Duh

    Hitmontop @ Life Orb
    Ability: Technician
    Nature: Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 HP/4 Def
    - Fake Out
    - Mach Punch/Bullet Punch/Pursuit
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge/Sucker Punch
     
  5. Locormus

    Locormus Can we please get the old forum back?

    Foresight is such a waste of a moveslot.. Anticipate the switch to a ghost, and continue with Stone Edge, then clear the field..

    Oh, and before anybody goes any further, we need a TopSpin reference here, or something like Prince of Tennis-like reference..
     
  6. Dragalge

    Dragalge This is more than 20 characters long

    VGC set:

    Hitmontop@ Fighting Gem
    Intimidate
    Adamant/Jolly
    EVs: 252 att/252 speed/4 HP
    Fake Out
    Close Combat
    Sucker Punch
    Detect
     
  7. OceanicLanturn

    OceanicLanturn Non non non!

    Yeah, but not every ghosts get 1HKO'd immediately by Stone Edge. And when you ahve like, 3 layers of spikes and stealth rock on your side, you want to clear them ASAP. (Don't ask me how they set up on you though :p)
     
  8. Kraleck

    Kraleck Well-Known Member

    Ability Analysis
    Intimidate - A solid Ability, especially with the Tyrogue-tree's lower Defense compared to Sp.Def. Hitmontop can help his team tank-n-spank pretty well, but suffers from Base 50 HP. Even so, it's pretty good for Doubles & Triples.

    Technician - Another solid Ability, especially with Hitmontop's multitude of Base 60-and-under Power Moves. Triple Kick can smash through Substitutes much faster thanks to that and the other STAB Moves boosted by Technician are also quite lovely - Rolling Kick, Low Sweep, Mach Punch, and Revenge. Bulldoze is also of notable use over Earthquake with this Ability due to Base 70 Speed being aided by Bulldoze's guaranteed Speed Debuffs.

    Steadfast - Dream World Ability. Kinda noteworthy, but is paled in comparison by the other two Abilities and Hitmontop's Base 50 HP. Raising your Base 70 Speed is a good idea since you can't tank too many hits with Base 50 HP, but you do have to take a hit (usually from an opponent you either outspeed already or will never survive against long enough to outspeed) and Flinch from the hit to activate it.
     
  9. sbktdreed

    sbktdreed Veteran Trainer

    Topper
    Intimidate w/ Life Orb/Muscle Band/Focus Band/Focus Sash
    Adamant w/ 252 Attack, 128 Defense, 130 Sp Defense
    Close Combat
    Stone Edge/Aerial Ace
    Drill Run
    Endeavor/Rapid Spin

    Tech
    Technician w/ Life Orb/Muscle Band/Scope Lens/Focus Band/Focus Sash
    Adamant w/ 252 Attack, 128 Defense, 130 Sp Defense
    Rolling Kick/Triple Kick/Low Sweep
    Aerial Ace
    Bulldoze
    Rapid Spin/Endeavor

    Partners:
    Tyranitar/Defiant Bisharp/Metagross
    Helping Hand-users

    Countering:
    High Defense and Attack with physical Psychic/Flying-type moves like Metagross, Dragonite, Gliscor, Flame body Chandelure, Acrobatics & Flying Gem Scizor, Aerial Ace Armaldo/Crustle/Escavaleir/Durant, Dusknoir, or will-o-wisp Spiritomb.
     
  10. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Counters:

    The Pokemon that counter Hitmontop are entirely dependent upon what set it's running. Ghost types get precedence, as not only are they immune to Hitmontop's STAB, but they block rapid spin as well, barring Foresight sets. Cofagrigus gets special mention, as it is bulky enough to eat a Stone Edge or two, and instantly cripple it with Will-o-Wisp. Once burned, all your team will really have to worry about from Hitmontop is Rapid Spin, as its crippled attack won't be bothering anyone. TechniTops also lose Technician when they try to fight back against Cofagrigus, which can be an annoyance (albeit icing on the cake). Dusclops is in the same boat, able to take a hit or two due to its defenses and Eviolite, and shut it down with Will-o-Wisp. Sableye's Prankster can practically guarantee a burn if Hitmontop stays in on it, but it must be wary as its relative frailty makes it unable to take repeated Stone Edges from an unburned Hitmontop, meaning it won't be able to switch into it reliably.

    Without Stone Edge, bulky flying types such as Zapdos and Gligar will wall it all day long, and threaten to KO it with ease. However, Hitmontop can surprise many of its would-be counters by carrying Toxic, which things like Zapdos and Cofagrigus hate. Gligar, however, isn't bothered when carrying Immunity, and takes pittance from anything Hitmontop can throw at it due to Eviolite bulking it up.

    Nidoking and Nidoqueen also make surprisingly good counters to offensive variants of Hitmontop; they resist both Stone Edge and Close Combat, are immune to Toxic, and with Sheer Force behind them, they can manage to punch holes in Hitmontop or force it out. They don't really fear anything Hitmontop carries except the rare Bulldoze. Obviously they're not going to be blocking Rapid Spin though, so don't rely on them to keep entry hazards on the field.

    And of course, fast Psychic types such as Azelf and Mew can revenge kill Hitmontop without too much difficulty, though they have to watch for Sucker Punches, especially Azelf. Mew, however, can be a bit trickier for Hitmontop, as if it bluffs an attacking variant to draw out Sucker Punch, but Will-o-Wisps instead, then Hitmontop can consider itself royally screwed. Slowbro isn't exactly fast enough to revenge kill (far from it), but it is bulky enough to survive even a Sucker Punch, and then tear Hitmontop apart with Psyshock. It can also bluff to give itself time to set up Calm Mind as well.

    Using it in OU opens up a whole new load of counters as well, which it has to deal with in the VGC. Metagross will make its life a nightmare, as it's immune to Intimidate, takes little damage from any of Hitmontop's attacks, and can easily pick it off with a Zen Headbutt. As very few VGC Hitmontops seem to carry Stone Edge, flying types such as Tornadus, Thundurus, and Gyarados can all tear it a new one without taking much damage themselves. Tornadus and Thundurus will blow it off the field in the blink of an eye, while Gyarados's intimidate can soften up Hitmontop's blows as well. Cresselia also has very little to worry about from Hitmontop, as its bulk allows it to endure Sucker Punch and bite back with Psychic.

    tl;dr - Use Ghost Types first and foremost; they'll block the Rapid Spin and burn the usefulness right out of Hitmontop. Offensive variants lack the raw power of other physical attackers in the metagame, so it's not too difficult to wall, especially if it lacks coverage.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  11. AgiliTop

    I think I have a good suggestion for the movesets. I'd like called it "AgiliTop"

    Hitmontop@Expert Belt/Life Orb
    Ability: Steadfast/Intimidate
    EVs: 80 HP/252 Atk/176 Speed or 252 Atk/252 Spd/4 Def
    Jolly Nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
    -Agility
    -Close Combat/Hi Jump Kick
    -Earthquake/Bulldoze
    -Stone Edge/Bullet Punch/Aerial Ace

    I came up with this suggestion so that way hitmontop will have more speed with 3 agilities and every time hitmontop flinches it's speed increases.;237;
     
  12. Meowmeow

    Meowmeow selfproclaimed guru

    Hitmontop is quite a good Pokemon. However, that's the inherent problem. It's good, but that's it. Today, "good" isn't good enough.
    The problem lies in two major places: the first is stats. Hitmontop's HP leaves much to be desired. The second is the other options. Hitmontop doesn't as hard as certain threats and doesn't take hits as well as certain threats. Because of this, Hitmontop gets benched often.
    Hitmontop does have some things going for it though. The first is access to Rapid Spin and Foresight. This makes Hitmontop able to Rapid Spin on Ghosts that try to block spinners. The second is Hitmontop's two excellent abilities. For defense, Intimidate will do wonders while Technician works with moves like Pursuit, Mach Punch, the aforementioned Rapid Spin, and Fake Out. All in all, Hitmontop has pinch value.
    Consider Hitmontop for your team, but ask yourself: Do you need Hitmontop's services? If not, look elsewhere. Otherwise, Hitmontop can make the difference between victory and defeat.

    Dreidal, Dreidal, I made out of Clay!
    Nature: Impish
    Ability: Intimidate
    EVs: 252 HP and defense, 4 speed
    @: Leftovers

    Rapid Spin
    Foresight/Toxic
    Sucker Punch/Stone Edge
    Triple Kick/Close Combat

    The standard Rapid Spin set. I prefer Triple Kick over Close Combat because I don't want something defensive lowering its own defenses. It's counter-productive. But if you want the power, go ahead and use Close Combat.

    Try Giving this set a Whirl
    Nature: Adamant
    Ability: Technician
    EVs: 252 attack and HP, 4 defense
    @: Life Orb

    Fake Out
    Mach Punch
    Pursuit
    Triple Kick/Close Combat

    Pretty similar to Scizor in function, yet so different. Fake Out is free damage, Mach Punch deals heavy damage, Pursuit hits runners, and Triple Kick is a power source. Close Combat still out-powers Triple Kick, but I prefer Triple Kick's non-stat drops on a Pokemon like Hitmontop.
     
  13. philzone

    philzone Ready for trumpets

    I'll go to the standard VGC sets

    Topmohth
    @fighting gem
    intimidate
    Adamant
    252 att,252 hp, 4 spdef
    fake out
    wide guard/detect
    Stone edge/sucker punch
    Close combat

    Good for a reason. this is half of the evil topmoth combo. fake out is nasty to TR users. detect gives durability, but wide guard prtects your moth from surf and rock slide. it helps against explosion users. Stone edge prevents enemy topmoths, but sucker punch can cause serious damage to latios. fighting gem close combat is destructive.

    other options. helping hand ,feint,mach punch, Tchnitop
    HH lets allies score ohkos
    feint can be nasty when timed perfectly, and can finish of foes at the las minute.
    mach punch is weaker than cc, but no stat down, and has priority
    Technitop is a beast in VGC, cauing alot of pain. techni fake out hits hard
     
  14. pika250

    pika250 Well-Known Member

    I have a feeling who the moth is in the "Top-moth" combo. Does that name start with a V?

    The only moves Top can use are those in the Tyro-tree's pool. Do note that egg moves are incompatible with Steadfast Ability, as they're male only. Not that you want a Steadfast set anyways. Speaking of which, how did Endeavor make it into those sets?
     
  15. Zachmac

    Zachmac Crystalline Guardian

    In double battles, the easiest way to handle Hitmontop itself is to have a psychic or flying type with good STAB and high special attack, such as Latios, who can handle it with Psystrike. Inner Focus Dragonite is notable on rain teams, as it won't be forced to flinch and can hurt it with STAB Hurricane.

    But, generally, the pokemon you'll have to worry about on the first round is the one that Hitmontop is supporting. This makes Infernape and Mienshao options, as they can pull off a fake out before Hitmontop can, and allow a teammate to handle the pokemon you don't make flinch. However, neither of these enjoy the effects of Intimidate much, Infernape can just shrug it off and heatwave, the top has high special defense.

    You could also have both teammates use protect on the first round, but if Hitmontop is supporting something like a trick room or tailwind user, you won't want to do that as much. Likewise, if at all possible, you could have both pokemon use a move that'd OHKO or cripple Hitmontop's teammate, so that no matter which one it uses Fake Out on, it's teammate can't preform it's job, though I don't feel this'll happen as much.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2013
  16. halodeoxys

    halodeoxys SUMMON THE TRUMPETS

    Aw yiss, Hitmontop.
    Favorite Pokemon besides Pansage, time for a serious writeup

    Overview

    Hitmontop is most likely the most used Hitmon in UU and even OU. There is a good reason for this, too, as Hitmontop has two amazing abilities for it, a nice support movepool including Rapid Spin, and just overall awesomeness. Come on, you can’t deny Hitmontops greatness. These assets and more make Hitmontop extremely useful in UU and useful in different ways in OU. Toppy is also extremely popular in VGC and doubles in general, thanks to great support and coverage for his partners. He has good defense stats that are unfortunately let down by base 50 HP, although Intimidate somewhat makes up for it. Hitmontop has a workable 95 Attack,(and base 35 SpAtk but that’s not important) although he has a measly base 70 Speed. However, his offensive shortcomings are again made up by his combination of both lots of priority moves and Technician. Overall, Hitmontop is a great pokemon that can work both offensively and defensively.

    Abilities

    Intimidate: Great ability as usual, it really works well with defensive Hitmontop sets, and works perfectly with his stats. Fantastic in doubles as well.
    Technician: Another awesome ability useful in offensive sets and works amazingly with Hitmontop's movepool, especially Priority moves such as Fake Out and Mach Punch which can turn Hitmontop into a surprisingly offensive Pokemon.
    Steadfast: Not a good ability for Hitmontop since Hitmontop has enough priority to make speed pointless and you have his other two abilities.

    Movesets


    I spin more than Sonic the Hedgehog


    Hitmontop @ Leftovers
    Intimidate
    252 HP / 180 Def / 72 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Rapid Spin
    - Foresight/Sucker Punch
    - Close Combat
    - Fake Out/Stone Edge

    Standard supporting Hitmontop. Rapid Spin is extremely important in any metagame you use Hitmontop in(besides maybe VGC), and removes all spikes and rocks(which Hitmontop is resistant to). Foresight can be used to negate spinblockers and guarantee Hitmontop a rapid spin, provided it survives a hit(due to it being rather slow), and that the opponent only has one Ghost type. Sucker Punch can be used instead to catch offensive ghosts off guard and revenge kill a few sweepers, primarily psychic types. Close Combat is an obvious choice, although Hi Jump Kick can be used instead if you REALLY want to, although its generally preferred you use CC since if you miss HJK, you lose a ton of health, which is terrible since you will want to keep Hitmontop alive as long as possible. The last few moves depends on your preference. Fake Out works in conjunction with Sucker Punch to break sashes and kill sweepers, especially important with killing pokemon such as Alakazam. However, Stone Edge can be used to kill flying types and Scolipede if you really need to. It also hurts most ghosts not named Dusclops or Cofagrigus pretty hard if you aren’t running Foresight. Your choice.

    Base 70 Speed is a lie

    Hitmontop @ Leftovers/Lum Berry
    Technician/Intimidate
    252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpDef
    Adamant Nature
    - Bulk Up
    - Mach Punch
    - Fake Out/Sucker Punch
    - Close Combat/Rapid Spin/Stone Edge/Sucker Punch/Aerial Ace

    A bit of a situational set that can still be really effective given the situation and can catch your opponent off guard, something Hitmontop is good at doing. Basically you just Bulk Up and sweep with your boosted priority moves. This also gives Hitmontop a chance to focus EV’s more on defense since priority completely makes Hitmontops low speed a non-issue, something most sweepers can’t do. Mach Punch is extremely important to the set as when boosted by Technician, it becomes much more powerful and can bring serious pain after a few Bulk Ups, especially since thanks to priority the opponent can’t do very much about it. Even other priority moves won’t do much to Hitmontop after some Bulk Ups, since almost all of them are physical. Fake Out is a great tech move and can turn Hitmontop into a decent revenge killer paired with Technician and Mach Punch for double Priority. However, Fake Out doesn’t get some of that Bulk Up goodness, which is where you might want to go Sucker Punch to to hurt and possibly kill Latios that try to stop you. The last choice is a total mess, I know; just go with whatever your team /you need the most. As far as abilities go, Technician would generally be preferred, but Intimidate can still be used to give you an early defensive boost against Conkeldurrr and such as well as trick opponents into thinking this is a defensive set.

    Dr. Dre-idel


    Hitmontop@Damp Rock/Heat Rock
    252 HP / 180 Def / 72 Atk
    Intimidate
    Careful/Impish Nature
    - Rain Dance/Sunny Day
    - Close Combat
    - Stone Edge/Rapid Spin
    - Fake Out/Toxic

    An alternate to the supportive set that is really gimmicky but might actually work considering Hitmontop scares Tyranitar away. This set will mostly have Hitmontop switching in and out. You have your weather of choice here to help support your teammates and give a halt to Sandstorm since most Tyranitar will have switched out after seeing Toppy. Then we have Close Combat as Hitmontop’s general STAB and the fact that he outspeeds Tyranitar and Politoed anyway, making it so he could possibly go for the kill. Stone Edge is great coverage radda radda radda. Rapid Spin can be used instead to work alongside weather as team support. In this case you might be better off running full 252 Def and just 4 Atk considering you will only have one major attacking move. Fake Out is a fantastic support move and breaks sashes, whereas Toxic can severely cripple some pokemon that might switch in to Hitmontop.

    On the TOP of VGC(VGC Set)

    Hitmontop@Life Orb/Fighting Gem
    Intimidate
    Adamant Nature
    - Close Combat
    - Fake Out
    - Sucker Punch
    - Detect/Wide Guard

    Rather straightforward set. Hitmontop is awesome in VGC. Before I move on, I want to say that Helping Hand is actually pretty viable with this set, I couldn’t find a move for it to possibly replace, but it’s an option. CC is the basic STAB and works well with Fighting Gem, but if you want to risk losing some of your health, Life Orb would be preferred. Fake Out is EXTREMELY important in VGC and is needed to cover for you allies. Sucker Punch has a similar use as well as coverage. Detect is obviously important as protection, especially for support like Hitmontop, and bypasses Protect if Uxie or something uses Imprison on it. Wide Guard is very useful as well however is a bit more situational. A quick note, Volcarona is a great partner for Hitmontop in doubles.
    Other Options:

    Hitmontop has a reasonably wide movepool and has some interesting moves.
    Agility raises speed but is generally not needed, it could work with some sets however.
    Earthquake is a fantastic move regularly, however it does not provide as much coverage for Toppy and he has trouble finding a moveslot for it.
    Bullet Punch attacts a lot of people due to Technician, however like Earthquake it does not have a lot of coverage like his other moves and he has problems finding a moveslot for it.
    Feint can work well in doubles to get the last hit on some opponents, although it only really works with Technician, which isn’t as popular in doubles as it was in 2010.
    Low Sweep is an interesting tech move that lowers the opponents speed while staying pretty powerful with Technician.
    Triple Kick can work very nicely with Technician, although CC is generally preferred. If you hate the side effect of HJK and CC you might want to try this one out.
    Round is fantastic normal type coverage with Base 35 SpAtk yeaaaahhh
     
  17. Dragonquester

    Dragonquester Fear the dragon

    Hitmontop has a lot of options on his side and can get quite a few advantages coming from his abilities and priority and status moves. He is a viable rapid spinner and a decent attacker because of technician and intimidate, so he can pull off some good sets. I'm going to list his other options before the sets: fake out, earthquake, bullet/mach punch, stone edge, quick attack, rock slide, gyro ball, rock slide, bulldoze, endeavor, close combat, counter, and revenge to name a few. And now for the sets of this eternal hand stander(or head stander):

    How have I not lost my balance yet?
    Ability:technician/intimidate
    Item:any that suit your needs
    Nature:any
    Moves:
    Pursuit
    Triple kick
    Rapid spin
    Drill run

    This set mainly benefits from technician, but intimidate works as well. Pursuit is for your fast psychic trying to take you out fast, and gets tech boost, as does rapid spin and triple kick. Rapid spin is for annoying entry hazards that tick you off. Triple kick is Hitmontop's signature move and, while seems weak with 10 base power, it gets tech and stab boost, and on top of that, the base 10 doubles on its own after each consecutive kick(10 on first, 20 on second, 40 on third). Drill run is good for the high critical hit rate, and gets decent coverage.

    That bull just keeps on kicking
    Ability:technician
    Item:kings rock
    Nature:any
    Moves:
    Blaze kick
    Triple kick
    Rolling kick
    Low sweep

    Low sweep and rolling kick, because of technician and stab, end up with 180 base power and an added effect. Rolling kick has a 30% chance of flinch, and with kings rock, adding 20%, is a massive 50% flinch chance. Low sweep has a 100% speed lowering chance, and helps bring that flinch chance into play. Triple kick does the same thing as before. Blaze kick has a high crit rate, and is more powerful than drill run.

    Some of these moves are egg moves. To get them, breed say, a Hitmonlee with blaze kick with a Ditto, and you will get a Tyrogue with blaze kick. The same thing applies with Hitmonchan and Hitmontop. This is the only way to get these moves.
     
  18. jon199

    jon199 Well-Known Member

    Hitmontop is irritating, if you are not prepared for it... I've never actually made a set for one because it has never fit in my teams. However when I've faced it, it was quite annoying. Too bad for Hitmontop that I have an extremely bulky Whiscash. :)

    Counters
    The easiest way to deal with Hitmontop is to send in a ghost type when it tries to Fake Out on the first turn (everyone always does). However, you do have to be careful, you may get Sucker Punched to death afterwards. Also, your opponent might forsee your switch and use stone edge. You could switch to a rock or steel type to take the hit, but you would probably get smashed by Close Combat later, as most of the sets do have.

    Most, if not all, of the Hitmontop that I've faced have had the following set:
    Fake Out
    Close Combat
    Rapid Spin
    Sucker Punch

    Usually, I send in a Gengar or Whiscash against this thing on the first turn so Fake Out doesn't hurt a potential sweeper. Gengar, and other ghosts can kill Hitmontop easily as long as they doesn't use any direct attacks. Will-o-Whisp is a good example (No Guts ability to worry about.) You can also just attack directly, get thwomped by Sucker Punch, survive by that secret Focus Sash you are holding, then kill it.

    Basically, anything bulky and wall-like will do the trick. Hitmontop's Attack stat is decent, and it has some pretty good moves, but it's not all that scary. It's just very annoying when you've set up your Stealth Rocks and this thing wipes them out. You just need to plan your moves out, and Hitmontop won't be that much of a pain to deal with.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  19. Ilan

    Ilan Well-Known Member

    It is actually viable you can garntee a spin or hit a ghost with you STAB (you know.. gengar isn't the only ghost out there and if you know there's a gengar then yes use stone edge.


    I didn't like him in OU he was too easy to kill and barely spinned something in UU he is better though..
    intimidate and technican are both viable.
     
  20. Silvershark

    Silvershark HAWLUCHA!!!

    Metagross and Defiant... really anything with Defiant, can also counter Hitmontop pretty hard in doubles.
     
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