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Community POTW #121

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Mar 10, 2019.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Minior is definitely unique. Seven different colours and a form changing ability unique to it. And unlike Darmanitan, Minior is actually bulkier on its high HP form, rather than vice-versa, making it actually useful. Although its low HP stat, lack of recovery, and loss of defensive stats at lower health ranges means it won't ever be a wall (and no, using Rest while in the core form to get back up into Meteor form won't automatically wake it up again), its meteor form does have enough staying power to set up reasonably well against those that lack super effective hits and those that rely on status conditions as its meteor form can't be statused. It does get some weird quirks in its move tutors, notably gaining Magnet Rise despite already being a flying type but lacking Stomping Tantrum. Why do you get Magnet Rise while Zeraora doesn't?

    Minior @ White Herb
    Ability: Shields Down
    EVs: 4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
    Adamant nature
    - Shell Smash
    - Acrobatics
    - Stone Edge
    - Earthquake / Substitute

    This is probably the best Minior can do. Shell Smash doubles Minior's speed and attack at the cost of its defences, which will trigger its White Herb activating. Once the White Herb is consumed, Minior can use Acrobatics at doubled base power as a reliable STAB move. Stone Edge is the other STAB move, although it is somewhat unreliable. Earthquake is an option to hit Steel types for super effective damage, while Substitute can be used as a means of hitpoints control so you can safely get down to your lighter core form and to build a buffer against attacks for when you're frail.

    Note to Serebii, the weight of the core form is missing on the pokédex page. It's not the same as the meteor form's weight. The sizes are the same for the two forms, but the weights are vastly different.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    shoz999 likes this.
  3. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Background Information - One of the saddest Pokemon of Gen 7, a Pokemon that represent the cycle of life and death

    Currently Minior has only made one appearance in one adaptation and that is the Pokemon anime where Sophocles recounts his experience of meeting a Minior, later finding out that Minor has a very short lifespan, dieing shortly, an experience that recounts for Ash's Poipole who befriends one. Other than that, that's Minior but I would like to say something before moving on.

    From my experience, Smogon's White Herb Minior's set is a gimmicky set and it's not competitively viable.
    So when you go to a Smogon page, your expecting to see the first thing you look is what their most recommend set is for a Pokemon out of all the other sets. Minior is pretty much the same and I don't think Smogon's "base" set for Minior is that good. From my personal experience, Minior is the best shell smasher in doubles and shell smashers are almost always targeted for this predictable playstyle, such as Cloyster. This is no different from Minior and most people understand that Minior mainly has one playstyle, a shell smasher. So while Minior is predictable, he's a priority threat and this often leads to Minior KO'd on it's first turn during Shell Smash setup if he has White Herb over Focus Sash. I know this from personal experience as I have tried White Herb Minior and most of the time, it doesn't work early or late game. To put it bluntly, if you know how vulnerable Shell Smashers are during the Shell Smash phase then you know it's a 50/50 coin toss if a Minior intending to survive next turn doesn't have Focus Sash, be it early on or late game. By this simple logic, White Herb Minior is a gimmicky set in terms of how Shell Smashers are vulnerable after set-up. I have tried this from my personal experience and it doesn't really get you the best results and it seems that according to Pokemon Global Link for the most part, people seem to know that White Herb Minior isn't Minior's best set.

    According to Global Link, the majority of Pokemon fans from Season 7 to 13 of Rating Battles in All Matches often prefer Focus Sash Minior over White Herb Minior as the most viable. Keep in mind though, it seems the usage of Minior is small judging by how empty and one-sided Minior's usage is in Doubles, such as some seasons amounting to 100% usage in Focus Sash or White Herb.
    • Season 14, Focus Sash used at around 55% while White Herb used at around 20%
    • Season 13, Focus Sash used around 50% while White Herb used around 25%
    • Season 12, Focus Sash used around 42 % while White Herb used around 38%
    • Season 11, Focus Sash used around 57%, while White Herb used around 22%
    • Season 10, White Herb used around 63%, while Focus Sash used around 26%
    • Season 9, Focus Sash used around 45%, while White Herb used around 28%
    • Season 8, Focus Sash used around 65%, while White Herb used around 18%
    • Season 7, Focus Sash used around 65%, while White Herb used around 16%
    This doesn't prove that any of my sets are viable, the seemingly lack of Double Batttle data does go against what I believe Minior is to be the best shell smasher in doubles and this data may even be used to support that White Herb Minior is a viable set in competitive, just not it's most viable. However this data does prove that the overall majority of players prefer Focus Sash Minior over White Herb Minior as Minior's most viable set. So again from my personal experience, White Herb Minior isn't that good and I know Serebii doesn't listen to a lot of it's fans but please don't recommend White Herb Minior as it's main best set, the first set that people will see. While my personal experience doesn't agree with GL's data entirely, it does say that players recognize Focus Sash Minor's value much more over White Herb Minior.

    Physical Minior Set - Singles - Doubles
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Shields Down
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk,-Sp. Atk)
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe
    Rock Slide
    Shell Smash

    Contrary to what Smogon says, Minior can work early and late game. In fact Minior seems to work best early in-game due to the presence of Stealth Rocks and not only that Minior is arguably the best shell smasher in doubles, utilizing it's high attack and rock STAB to become one of the most dangerous rock slide-users of the game. Acrobatic is also good even if Focus Sash isn't used against Pokemon who are week against it, making use of the Shell Smash boost and Flying-stab that even 55 base power seems threatening to one-shot a fair amount of Bug or Grass-type Minior comes across.

    Special Minior Set - Singles
    Item: Focus Sash
    Ability: Shields Down
    Nature: Modest (+Sp. Atk,-Atk)
    EVs: 252 Atk/252 Spe
    Power Gem
    Hidden Power Flying
    Shell Smash

    So unlike Physical Minior, this one is more appropriate for Singles in the same way Shell Smash Cloyster is going to be targeted from all directions in doubles.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
  4. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    I think the main problem with Focus Sash is that you give away control over losing your item to your enemy. If you take damage that isn't normally a KO you keep holding the Sash (like a Fake Out or hail damage or maybe a fire or flying move or something), it just won't do anything, and in that case you'll be stuck with a weak Acrobatics that you have no way to power up because Minior can't get its health back to full to reset its Focus Sash capability easily. It really isn't that frail in its meteor form, the White Herb cancels the defence debuff that Shell Smash gives you. Cloyster is very frail on the special side even prior to Shell Smash, it's a very different pokémon.
    shoz999 likes this.
  5. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    I think much of my experience with Minior comes from doubles as shell smashers are much more vulnerable there. Plus I don't really obey Smogon tiers to determine a Pokemon's strength so in my opinion and experience with the Pokemon, Minior's biggest foes are Aegislash and Mega Lucario who are among Pokemon who can not only potentially one-shot Minior but also finish it off with a priority move after Focus Sash. So I think you can understand that there are a fair amount of commonly used Pokemon without priority moves like Mega Blaziken with Hi Jump Kick or Stone Edge or Mega Gyarados with Waterfall for example that can one-shot Minior's Meteor Form's uninvested defenses where Focus Sash could really help.

    So due to the competition Minior faces I do feel that Minior has a greater survival edge with Focus Sash than without it. Also even with Fake-Out or Hail going against Minior's Focus Sash item which by extension keeps Minior's Acrobatic from reaching full power, Acrobatic still works great as a bruising move after set-up, two-shotting Mega Venusaur with ease. However this is still of course a drawback to Focus Sash Minior and because of this in my personal opinion, Minior's Rock Slide is actually his strongest move. Whereas Acrobatic with Focus Sash Minior is somewhat of a gamble, Rock Slide is much more consistent in doubles and has of course flinching. It's also consistent in singles and I've always found it more reliable than Stone Edge with that 80% accuracy.

    So for me personally at least, I do think that one advantage of having Focus Sash Minior potentially surviving one KO hit are worth the disadvantages that come with it.
  6. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    I love Minior, such a cute Pokémon, and an ability that gives it temp immunity to status only to shed its armor to become a swift threat? Minior's gimmick is actually viable... if it wasn't weak to so many common types... had more HP... and better setup moves outside of Shell Smash.

    Item: Light Clay
    Abilty: Shields Down
    -Light Screen
    -Stealth Rock
    -Endeavor/Power Gem/Stone Edge
    Nature: Timid (+SPE, -ATK) or Jolly (+SPE, -SATK)
    EVs: 252 HP/252 SPE/4 DEF

    Minior actually has an excellent movepool. Dual Screens + Stealth Rock make it a fantastic setup pokémon. Lay down what you need and get out to do it again. If Minior is knocked down to core form, take advantage of the increased speed and low HP to get revenge with Endeavor or punish Rock weak foes with Power Gem and Stone Edge (and avoid being taunt bait).

    That being said, even with max bulk investment, core form Minior is often too frail to take powerful hits and is prone to being one shotted. So Gimmick set.

    Other Options
    Gravity -always an interesting move. Works well with Stone Edge and Earthquake, but exposes you to ground moves
    shoz999 likes this.
  7. KyogreThunder

    KyogreThunder Call of Fate

    It is a real shame that Minior can't learn Earth Power despite most Rock-types getting it (and most lacking Special Attack to use it well).
  8. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    It also lacks special flying STAB to go the special route.
  9. KyogreThunder

    KyogreThunder Call of Fate

    At least it gets Power Gem and actually has a decent special movepool.
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