Community POTW #124

[Serebii]

Time for the next Pokémon of the Week, and this week the RNG spat out a double header

First off, we have Manaphy, the incredibly rare Water-type Pokémon only accessible if you have one of the three Pokémon Ranger games

Manaphy is capable of quite a lot and has a decent enough movepool.

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/490.shtml



That leads onto the second one, albeit a less important one. Due to Manaphy being done, we figure we'll also take on the slightly less powerful, far more common Pokémon, Phione

Phione is essentially a poor man's Manaphy, but it still has carved its own little niche in

http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-bw/489.shtml

Go nuts, and be sure to note which set is for which Pokémon

 

[Mr Spaz]

Defensive Phione Set:
Item: Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
Rain Dance is for Hydration to activate
Rest restores health
Acid Armor will increase Defense
Scald is just there so it isn't Taunt Bait

 

[Lucario Fan]

Manaphy

Ability: Hydration
Item: Damp Rock
Moves: Tail Glow, Rain Dance, Ice Beam, Scald

Phione

Ability: Hydration
Item: Leftovers
Moves: Ice Beam, Scald, Grass Knot, Rain Dance

 

[Monster Guy]

Manaphy @ Life Orb/Leftovers
Trait: Hydration
Timid Nature
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe - 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Calm Mind
Surf
Rest
Ice Beam

Calm Mind gives it special defense boosts so it can set up more reliably. Rest heals fully and removes status under rain thanks to Hydration, and Surf and Ice Beam deal damage.

Either item works and EV spread works. Depending on whether you want bulk or power.

Everyone is going to post a Tail Glow set so...

 

[pika250]

I checked Smogon tiers, and yes, Manaphy is Uber. So, what's the point of Rain Dance on your Manaphy? In case your Kyogre goes down and an enemy Groudon (say) rears its ugly head?

 

[Amaretto]

The classic Wacan berry Manaphy set

Manaphy @ Wacan Berry
Hydration
252 Satk/Spe
Timid
Rest, Tail Glow, Ice Beam, Surf

Simple, Tail Glow to raise your special attack to astronomic levels, Rest to heal in rain, to be used with Kyogre (or Politoed..?), Ice Beam and Surf have nice coverage together, giving Manaphy the chance to sweep :>

Phione (NU Rain team set)
Damp Rock
Hydration
Timid
252 HP/100 Def/156 Spe
Scald, Rain Dance, Rest, U-Turn

This set can be used to bring the rain for 8 turns, heal in one turn, insert a rain sweeper/glass cannon in the game, or to burn another poke and still damage it

 

[OceanicLanturn]

Manaphy @ Leftovers / Life Orb
Trait: Hydration
EVs: 252 Spe / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Modest / Timid Nature
- Tail Glow
- Hydro Pump / Surf
- Ice Beam / Grass Knot
- Rest

Best used in rain.

 

[SmeargleRocks]

Defensive Manaphy
Bold
EV's 252 HP, 252 Defense, 4 Sp.atk / Sp.def
Hydration
Leftovers
Tail Glow / Calm Mind
Surf
Ice beam
Grass Knot / Rest / Aqua Ring / Substitute

Offensive Manaphy
Modest
EV's 252 sp.atk, 252 Speed
Hydration
Expert Belt / Life Orb
Tail Glow
Surf
Ice Beam
Shadow Ball / HP Fire

Stall manaphy
Calm
EV's 252 HP, 252 Sp.def
Hydration
Leftovers
Calm Mind
Surf
Aqua Ring / Rest
Substitute

Rest is on these sets so you can heal up then cause of hydration in the rain you have no status anymore

 

[Kraleck]

Hmm...what can I really say about these two? Hydration is the Only Ability they get, so there's nothing to analyze about that (aside from the utility of Hydration-Rest). Manaphy has Stats identical to Mew, Celebi, Jirachi, Land Shaymin, and Victini and Phione has Stats identical to Glalie - Manaphy has Great Stats across the board and Phione has Average Stats with Above-Average HP. Other than that, everything is overly obvious. Manaphy and Phione may have a lot of untapped Physical Set potential, but the Type Coverage of their Physical Moves is enough to make you steer clear almost-entirely (especially with Manaphy's Tail Glow).

 

[MatchMaster]

Manaphy is the perfect example of deception of stats. 100 across the board seems mediocre for the Uber tier, but its success lies in its ability and movepool. Its ability is arguably the main reason why its uber: Hydration combined with Rest in the Rain gives it instant full recovery, and with the prominence of Kyogre, this isn't too hard to pull off. The second reason why it was most likely banned was due to its setup move, Tail Glow, which gives it a massive +3 boost to special attack, allowing it to match the power of Uber titans. To a lesser extent, Calm Mind is also a key to its success, which allows it to take some powerful special attacks with the appropriate defensive investment. In all, Manaphy is not to be underestimated.

Tail Glow
Nature: Timid
Item: Leftovers / Life Orb
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Tail Glow
- Surf
- Ice Beam / Grass Knot
- Rest

With a +3 boost, rain, and possibly a Life Orb, Manaphy is a terror to face, as even without a Life Orb, 252 / 208+ Ferrothorn is 2HKO'd by a +3 Rain-boosted Surf. Tail Glow is the most important move of the set, allowing Manaphy to reach ungodly levels of power in just one turn of setup. Surf will destroy anything that doesn't resist it and even heavily dent some resists. To give you an idea of how powerful it is in rain and with a boost, it 2HKOs Chansey after Stealth Rock. Ice Beam is there mostly to hit things weak to it if you can't get a boost or you're not in rain, as a +3 Surf in rain actually does more to things like Lugia than a +3 Ice Beam. Grass Knot is mostly for Kyogre as it can just barely avoid the 2HKO from a Life Orb +3 Rain Surf. Rest gives it instant full recovery, greatly increasing longevity.

Kyogre is mandatory as a teammate, as it provides rain to boost Surf, and allow Manaphy to instantly wake up from Rest.

Check and Counters
Due to its power, Manaphy doesn't have any true counters, but some come close. Choice Scarf Zekrom can come in on Grass Knot, and destroy any Manaphy with Bolt Strike. Scarf Kyogre can come in on Ice Beam and do a similar job with Thunder, but will lose in the rare occasion that a Calm Mind Manaphy carries Grass Knot.

Changing the weather will be very problematic for Manaphy, as it relies on it to have instant reliable recovery. This especially applies if you switch Groudon in as Manaphy uses Rest, as it will be stuck asleep for two turns while Groudon can possibly KO it, or switch into something else that can kill it. In the Sun, Grass Arceus is probably the best universal counter, as it easily takes all of Manaphy's attacks and can KO with Judgement, or set up on it.

 

[KYOGRE-D]

Manaphy@Leftovers
Timid Nature (+Spd, - Atk)
Evs: 252 speed, 252 hp, 4 sp atk.
-Calm Mind
-Rest
-Scald
-Ice Beam

Standard CM Manaphy set. CM is used over Tail Glow for the Sp. Def boosts. At +1 it can tank a Thunder from most Kyogre and Palkia, use CM, then outspeed and use CM to weaken the second one, again surviving, and then Rest up. Rain has to be in effect for Hydration to work. You can normally easily set up to +6, and then sweep with boosted Ice Beams and Scalds. However, Physical attackers can impede the set up process, which is why Scald is there, for the burn chance. It is still powerful after STAB and the rain boost. Phazers also pose a problem, but a swift boosted Ice Beam can cripple or KO most common ones e.g. Giratina, Groudon, and once they are crippled, set up rain again (if they change the weather) and then restart.

Zekrom is a large problem, specifically scarfed ones. A Wobuffet is good to take it down, and you will need to take out Groudon and possible Giratina before you attempt a sweep.

 

[MetalVolt]

;490; ;489;

For this coverage, I shall look at both Phione and Manaphy, two pokemon that have several differences and similarities alike. While the two are universally same, there are things that separate them like great stats compared to average stats, and Phione's lack of Tail Glow and other good moves. While one is clearly better then the other, they are good Pokemon that you should at least give a try at both.

~Manaphy~
Pixie Stick

-Tail Glow
-Rest
-Surf
-Ice Beam
Item Attached: Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs and Nature:
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature (+Spe, -Atk)

This set is pretty much mandatory for a lot of Manaphy's in the Uber Community, as Tail Glow is one of the main reasons the tiny prince got pushed up there in the first place. As stated before, Tail Glow is the killer here, adding a boost of +3 to your Special Attack, making Manaphy a force to be reckoned with. Rest, combined with Kyogre, makes Manaphy able to recover any damage and wake the following turn. Surf is your key STAB here, wrecking anything that isn't hit hard by Ice Beam. This attack is especially useful under maxed Tail Glow and Drizzle, ensuring nothing will survive this barrage. Finally, Ice Beam is there for what Surf can't handle, like Arceus Grass and Groudon, if it decides to bring in the sun.

Other Options:
Substitute - If your Manaphy isn't bulky enough to survive while it is setting up, you could give this a try if you really wanted too, but it is highly recommended you put in the additional 252 EVs in HP if you want to do this.
Calm Mind- While this is effective, I find it doesn't give the proper coverage compared to Tail Glow. You could try if you want the Sp. Def boost, I guess.
Grass Knot - There for other Kyogre's who would generally soak up Manaphy's attacks, but that's about it.

Counters and Resistances:
Thundurus with Taunt is a good choice if Manaphy decides to switch in, as a Prankster Taunt removes the Sea Prince's niche as a powerful glower. Arceus Grass in the sun is also a nice choice, but as stated before, Ice Beam can generally wipe it out, although CM can be used to prevent otherwise. As for things that can stall Manaphy, there isn't much there, but there are clear options. Groudon is your best friend here, as his ability of sun provides a great opportunity if Manaphy decides to rest, but is stuck sleeping for two turns. Darkrai can use the classic Dark Void + Nasty Plot set, although it is recommended to get rid of rain, as Manaphy can simply shrug off whatever sleep you throw at it otherwise.

~Phione~
Neptune: Sea god of the NU!
-Ice Beam
-Rain Dance/U-Turn
-Scald
-Surf
Item Attacked: Damp Rock/Leftovers/Life Orb
EVs and Nature:
252 SpA / 252 HP / 4 SpD
Modest Nature (+SpA, -Atk)

This set gives a different look on Phione, as both an attacker and more or less a supporter. Ice Beam is standard, taking care of Butterfree, Serperior and the majority of grass, flying or ground/rock types. Rain Dance is considered Phione's main niche, although U-Turn is for if you already have that kind of proper support put up. Scald is a good stall-breaker, with a good chance of burning. Finally, Surf is a decent STAB move, being coverage for what Ice Beam can't destroy. The item is really your choice here: Damp Rock is if you want Rain Dance, Leftovers is for the bulky sweeper, and Life Orb is if you really want to add that extra power into it.

Other Options:
Rest - Good for Bulky sets, but not advised for sets like the ones above that try to go for more offense.

Counters & Resistances:
While Electric and Grass Types are essential to defeating Phione, it seems like a pointless endeavor as Phione will likely set up Rain Dance before being killed after a second attack. To fix this, get fast and powerful electric types such as Rotom-S, Raichu and others are key to taking down the doppelganger. Phione is also rather helpless as taunt or sub bait, as it has little offensive presence. Shell Smash Gorebyss or Huntail can set up and take advantage of Phione's rain as well.

 

[Cosmic Potato]

Manaphy can run tail glow or calm mind. Tail glow has a niche because manaphy is the only decent pokemon with access to it. Calm mind can be justified over kyogre because of rest + hydration. Also outspeeding rayquaza with some speed EVs could be very helpful. I don't have any experience with phione so I can't say much here... I guess it could run rain dance/rest/scald/ice beam with defensive EVs.

 

[FantasyLegend]

I'll start with Manaphy. He's pretty cool. I use him a lot in Ubers, the reason being its ability, Hydration. If it's paired with Kyogre, it basically removes its status problems. The trouble is, Rest is its only recovery move; if your opponent sends in something like Tyranitar as you Rest, you're pretty much screwed until you send Kyogre back in. But if you can take care of opposing weather inducers and let Manaphy set up, your opponent is in for a torrent of trouble.

The Prince of the Sea (Calm Mind)
Manaphy @Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
252 HP, 252 SpAtk, 4 Spe
Modest Nature (-SpAtk, +SpA)
Calm Mind
Rest
Surf/Scald
Ice Beam/Grass Knot

Calm Mind is the crux of the set. It boosts the little water pixie's SpAtk and SpDef by one, so it can stay on the "bulky" side while it retains its power. Rest is there because of its ability, Hydration, which allows it to heal any status on the first turn in the rain, so if Manaphy's HP dwindles, you can Rest off with no restraint. It also makes things like Thunder Wave or Dark Void useless, so it can be an effective absorber against Darkrai. Surf is for more power, but Scald has that 30% burn rate, which is always helpful. The last move depends on what your team needs, but either way, something walls you. Ice Beam hits Dragons like Rayquaza and others like Groudon, but leaves you walled by other Kyogre. Grass Knot takes care of Kyogre and still hits Groudon hard, but leaves you walled by most Dragon-types.

Battleship (Tail Glow)
Ability: Hydration
Manaphy @Life Orb/Leftovers
4 HP, 252 SpAtk, 252 Spe
Timid Nature (-Atk, +Spe)
Tail Glow
Rest
Surf
Ice Beam/Grass Knot

This is a much more offensive Manaphy. This time, you replace Calm Mind with Tail Glow, a move that increases SpAtk to +3! With Life Orb equipped, if can do some heavy damage. Here are some damage calculations to show off its power.

+3 252 SpA Life Orb Manaphy Surf vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Chansey in rain: 294-347 (45.79 - 54.04%) -- 46.88% chance to 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Life Orb Manaphy Surf vs. 4 HP / 252+ SpD Blissey in rain: 368-434 (56.44 - 66.56%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. +1 204 HP / 0 SpD Mewtwo in rain: 352-415 (87.12 - 102.72%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Groudon in sun: 350-414 (86.63 - 102.47%) -- 18.75% chance to OHKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. 252 HP / 180+ SpD Tyranitar in sand: 330-390 (81.68 - 96.53%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+3 252 SpA Manaphy Surf vs. +1 252 HP / 0 SpD Lugia in rain: 222-262 (53.36 - 62.98%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Whew, that's some power! Anyways, again, the moves in the last slot are completely up to you.

Other Options
Hidden Power, Choice, U-turn

Checks and Counters
Choice Scarfers like Zekrom, Palkia, and Dialga can outspeed and kill it with a Thunder. They won't do much to the Calm Mind set after +1, however. Calm Mind Arceus-Electric is also a good counter, which can Calm Mind alongside Manaphy and OHKO the Tail Glow set with Thunder. Taking away the rain helps, too. Groudon and Tyranitar are shaky checks, but they remove Manaphy's rain. Choice Scarf Kyogre is a good counter, as it can come in and revenge kill it, but Kyogre can't take a Grass Knot. Rayquaza, although it is KO'ed by Ice Beam, can come in on a predicted Rest and proceed to set up.

Now for Phione, Manaphy's little brother. It doesn't seem too bad at first, sitting at base 80 in every stat. Of course, they aren't huge, but it looks enough. So why is it sitting at the bottom of NU? Its movepool is terrible, and it doesn't even get Calm Mind! What it does best, however, is setting up rain for its teammates.

In the Shadow of the Storm
Phione @Damp Rock
Ability: Hydration
252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Spe
Bold Nature (-Atk, +Def)
Rain Dance
U-turn
Rest
Scald/Toxic

This is Phione's best set. It can set up Rain Dance for sweepers like Gorebyss, and get out of a sticky situation with U-turn. Scald is so you don't become Taunt bait. However, Toxic is viable as well.

Other Options
Life Orb, Safeguard

Checks and Counters
If you can KO Phione before it sets up rain, you have basically countered Phione. Fast Electric types like Raichu can do the job. Pokemon with Taunt can easily stop Phione as well.

Opinion: Water is my favorite element, so naturally I would like both of them. I prefer Manaphy, however, probably because it possesses more of an offensive presence.

Prediction for next week: Genesect

 

[Black Murder Heavangelon]

Gimmicky Heart Swap Doubles

Manaphy@Leftovers
Hydration - Timid Nature
252 HP/252 Spe/4 Sp.Def
-Tail Glow
-Heart Swap
-Substitute/Protect
-Hydro Pump/Surf

Heart Swap is seldom used in most sets for obvious reasons; it's not that it sucks, it's just on the wrong pokemon. Manaphy has no such stat dropping moves, rather insane boosting moves like Tail Glow and Acid Armor. Heart Swap has no place on a pokemon like this, but this set makes use of it through unconventional means. The idea is to Heart Swap the stat boosts Manaphy gains to a partner pokemon that could really use the +3 Sp.Atk boost, and the move of choice here is Tail Glow. Tail Glow is the most dangerous and fastest boosting move Manaphy can use, since one use gives +3 Sp.Atk, it is ideal if you are going to swap it onto something that's going to use it. You have the choice between Substitute or Protect to shield you in the Double Battle format, because once your opponent finds out what Manaphy's doing, they'll be aiming their crosshairs on the little guy. You can run both moves, but you'll have no space for the STAB moves to take advantage of in Hydro Pump and Surf. The latter is preferred to run with teammates who can take a Surf or two, and they have to be really good at it too, because if Manaphy is in trouble, he'll need to be throwing around +3 STAB boosted Surfs to clean up shop for you.

You have a lot of other options for Manaphy if you so please, but the set above is the most optimal of Manaphy's movepool. The other two boosting moves Manaphy has is Acid Armor and Calm Mind, the former being an alright defensive pass, the latter a slower form of boosting offense and defense a little. In terms of support, Manaphy gained Heal Bell and Helping Hand from the Black 2 and White 2 tutors; the former helps Manaphy act as a cleric while the latter can boost his teammate's power aside from Heart Swapping Tail Glows. In terms of offense, Brine is an acceptable move to swap for Hydro Pump and Surf, since Doubles will see a lot of Pokemon taking hits, and Manaphy can assist in picking off the weakened bunch. Scald can also spread Burns and increase your team's survivability, and has synergy with Calm Mind if you have the patience. Icy Wind barely counts as an offensive move, but hey, it lowers Speed with each hit, so it has some merit. Lastly, AncientPower while it sounds silly, is usable in hopes of rolling that lucky +1 to all stats so that you can pass it to a teammate and such. There is still the Rest Hydration combo you can use, but Manaphy's movesets are limited as it is.

One more thing to remember about Heart Swap. It makes Manaphy a middle man of sorts, in that he can take away negative stat drops from a teammate like from Overheat or Leaf Storm or SuperPower, and then pass them along to your opponent who would really not like them. Just remember that it swaps all stat changes, so you'd be in a pickle if your teammate somehow got a stark boost to one stat in comparison to a drop in another.

And lastly, teammate options. If you're running Surf on this guy, the teammate has to have some form of water resist or immunity, or Protect. It is optimal to have such a Water Immunity on a physical attacker, that way, Manaphy can stockpile Tail Glow boost while using the +3 Surfs to attack and heal the teammate. Speaking of which, try to keep your coverage broad. Manaphy has the Water attacks you need, provided you can keep him alive, so your teammates should have your other weaknesses covered.

That's all for today.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Ah, Manaphy. Somehow, the only BS-100 legendary currently Uber. I guess it's cause of Tail Glow, but seriously, I'll take Jirachi over this thing any day. Anyways, when looking at Manaphy, a few things stand out. One, besides Tail Glow, it completely and utterly lacks any defining characteristics that set it apart from any other bulky Water. Defensive sets are outclassed horribly by Vaporeon. Therefore, one must abuse his calling card, Tail Glow, in order to potentially get a sweep. While not the most effective thing in the world, I think a SubSalac set might be decent.

Manaphy @ Salac Berry
Timid - Hydration
252 Speed, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 HP
-Tail Glow
-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Substitute / Rest / Hidden Power (Grass)

Problem is, Manaphy suffers from 4MS badly. It can't carry everything it needs to carry in order to effectively sweep. Without Substitute, it can't reliably activate Salac Berry. Without Rest, it's priority bait. Without HP Grass, Kyogre and friends wall him to hell and back. So, you've gotta pick and choose a bit.

All in all, I wouldn't recommend this thing. Just use Vaporeon or Kyogre. Or drop him to OU where maybe he can see some real use.​

 

[jesusfreak94]

All in all, I wouldn't recommend this thing. Just use Vaporeon or Kyogre. Or drop him to OU where maybe he can see some real use.

Vaporeon is really bad in Ubers, and Kyogre is actually a preferred teammate for Manaphy, not its competition. Manaphy was also banned from OU back in BW1, and I doubt that would change even now. It still has that same deadly combination of HydraRest, Tail Glow / Calm Mind, and great base stats and typing that helped get it banned in the first place. Besides, it saw about 4.7% usage in Ubers last month, so it gets decent usage as it is.

On a side note, definitely run Grass Knot instead of HP Grass if you're concerned with hitting Kyorgre. Grass Knot hits Kyogre with 120 base power, so it's far better than HP Grass.

 

[Divine Retribution]

Vaporeon is really bad in Ubers, and Kyogre is actually a preferred teammate for Manaphy, not its competition. Manaphy was also banned from OU back in BW1, and I doubt that would change even now. It still has that same deadly combination of HydraRest, Tail Glow / Calm Mind, and great base stats and typing that helped get it banned in the first place. Besides, it saw about 4.7% usage in Ubers last month, so it gets decent usage as it is.

On a side note, definitely run Grass Knot instead of HP Grass if you're concerned with hitting Kyorgre. Grass Knot hits Kyogre with 120 base power, so it's far better than HP Grass.

Completely forgot Grass Knot existed. Seeing as it hits most Ubers with max base power, I'd definitely recommend running that. Still not recommending running this thing at all, it's way too much of a gimmick for Ubers, and there's a lot of better things you can put in that teamslot.

And maybe Vappy is outclassed in Ubers, but it's still a far cry better than those defensive Manaphy sets you see running around.

 

[jesusfreak94]

Manaphy isn't exactly a gimmick. Like I said, Manaphy does see respectable usage in Ubers, and it does have its perks. Base 100 speed is a pretty big deal in Ubers (it was the sole reason that anyone took Salamence seriously in Ubers last generation), and Tail Glow is a very powerful boosting move of which Manaphy is the only good offensive user. The Calm Mind set is also deceptively hard to take down. If Manaphy gets a Calm Mind as Modest Scarf Kyogre switches in, it actually has a great chance of taking a Thunder, setting up another Calm Mind, and surviving the second Thunder so that it can begin Rest stalling the rest. If Kyorge is Timid, or if it is another special Scarf user such as Scarf Palkia (which is also generally Timid), then the Scarf user doesn't have much of a chance of breaking through Manaphy at all. Heck, HydraRest in general is a great asset when combined with two great boosting moves and good Water typing.

Also, I'm not sure where you're seeing defensive Manaphy sets. Last month, about 94% of Manaphy were running either Tail Glow or Calm Mind (assuming no one ran both at the same time), which are the two best sets that Manaphy should be using.

 

[sbktdreed]

Phione
Item: Sitrus/Lum Berry, Leftovers, Life Orb
(Mixed set)
Any Neutual nature w/ 252 Sp Attack, 252 Attack, 6 HP
Scald
Bounce
Ice Beam
Signal Beam/U-Turn

(Special set)
Modest w/ 252 Sp Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
Scald
Ice Beam
Signal Beam
HP (Ghost/Rock/Flying/Dark/Fire)

Manaphy
Item: Life Orb/Leftovers
Modest w/ 252 Sp Attack, 252 Speed, 6 HP
Scald
Shadow Ball
Ice Beam
Psychic/Energy Ball/Signal Beam

Partners
Politoad/Rain Dancer-users
Helping Hand-users

Countering
High Sp Defense pokemon with Electric/Grass-type moves like Thunderpunch Dusnoir, Power Whip Ferrothorn, or Wash Rotom.