1. We have moved to a new forum system. All your posts and data should have transferred over. Welcome, to the new Serebii Forums. Details here
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Be sure to join the discussion on our discord at: Discord.gg/serebii
    Dismiss Notice
  3. If you're still waiting for the e-mail, be sure to check your junk/spam e-mail folders
    Dismiss Notice

Community POTW #128

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jun 9, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Time for the next Pokémon of the Week, and this one is a bit ghoulish!


    It's Banette, the adorable and terrifying Ghost-type Pokémon. Since the release of its Hidden Ability, it has seen more use


    Go nuts
  2. Lucario Fan

    Lucario Fan Well-Known Member

    Ability: Cursed Body
    Item: Leftovers
    Moves: Will-O-Wisp, Hex, Toxic, Sucker Punch
  3. OceanicLanturn

    OceanicLanturn Non non non!

    Wow, Banette definitely isn't the No. 1 Choice for NU Ghost types, since its stats aren't very good. But oh well...

    Draw me like one of your French ghouls
    Banette @ Leftovers
    Trait: Cursed body
    EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Atk
    Impish Nature
    - Will-o-Wisp
    - Shadow Claw
    - Pursuit / Sucker Punch / Knock Off / Thunder Wave / Toxic / Pain Spit
    - Pursuit / Sucker Punch / Knock Off / Thunder Wave / Toxic / Pain Spit

    Although Banette isn't one of the best Pokemon for this job, this is just a random creativity set I thought up of. Banette can try and make use of this set to wall physical attacks. Yes, it's not the best Pokemon to do it, but com'on. The only 'viable' set according to Smogon is Suicide Lead for TR. Let's be a little creative here. This set capitalises on tanking physical hits. First, Will-o-Wisp will halve the foe's attack. Then use Shadow Claw. Now. You can decide whatever you want to do with the last two slot. Pursuit and Sucker Punch allows this poor little thing to hit normal types. Knock Off can knock off Eivolites. Thunder Wave and Toxic are interesting options to cripple a Pokemon that probably would prefer a Paralysis / Toxic over Burn. Pain Split is used to heal.

    Btw random Calcs:
    252+ Atk Choice Band Sawk Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Banette: 164-194 (49.39 - 58.43%) -- 69.53% chance to 2HKO

    Okay now go and use Banette (honestly just use Alolmonola instead)
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  4. Dragalge

    Dragalge This is more than 20 characters long

    Banette is definitely a very underwhelming Ghost because sans its Attack stat, it's slow and frail verbatim. Cotton Guard is unique but it's not really worthy of use other than maybe a support set, so onto counters:

    Steels generally wall the puppet, namely Probopass and friends while just hitting it on the Special side takes it down as well like Haunter (be careful of Sucker Punch) though he is more of a revenge killer instead. Honestly it's a cool concept and design, it's just outclassed from the likes of Golurk personally.
  5. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Poor Banette. Despite having a respectable base 115 attack, it was cursed with having crappy 64/65/63 defenses, and poor base 65 speed. Being both slow and frail makes Banette a bottom of the barrel Pokemon even by NU standards. As a physical attacking ghost, it is completely outclassed by Golurk, who is both stronger and bulkier, and has a nasty STAB Earthquake up its sleeve. As a result, Banette has no choice but to resort to a gimmick set to have any kind of niche. And here we have the "standard" Suicide Lead.

    Banette @ Focus Sash
    Brave Nature
    Cursed Body
    EVs: 252 Attack
    -Trick Room
    -Destiny Bond
    -Shadow Claw

    Yes, it's Smogon's "cookie cutter" set, but hey, this is just to look at it for a holistic analysis. And let me just say; this set sucks. It really does. Your basic premise is obvious; set up trick room on the first turn. Let the focus sash get you down to 1 HP. Your now-Trick Roomed speed might let you go first on the second turn. Destiny Bond. ??? Profit. Have your Trick Room sweeper follow Banette to take advantage of the inverted dimensions. Taunt and Shadow Claw are there for prevent being setup bait and taunt bait, respectively. In a sense it's a similar strategy to the age old FEAR gimmick.

    However, this set has a few key glaring flaws; sacrificing your Trick Room user (or one of them) is never a reliable strategy. Plus, after Banette goes down, you only have three turns of Trick Room left to use; hardly enough to sweep a whole team. In addition, many slower and more powerful Pokemon lurk in the tier, who would love to have Trick Room up for them. Entry hazards ruin a Suicide strategy, so it forces Banette to be a lead if it wants to use this set, making it predictable. Furthermore, if you Toxic or Burn it, it's as good as screwed.

    Honestly? Don't use Banette. Golurk's a better physical attacker, and Drifblim and Misdreavus outclass it as well. Heck, it also has to deal with competition from Haunter and Lampent. There are just too many better ghosts than Banette, whose stats aren't so flawed.
  6. If you're gonna reject both at a time, Serebii, I will choose between jokes and movesets, but only one thing, let's see if that works.

    -If you don't follow the rules, you'll get a Ban-ette.
    -"I won't forgive Game Freak, they give Dusclops an evo and for me what?" (no, seriously, they used to be counterparts until Gen IV brought Dusknoir)
    (I can't seem to make one for Shuppet)
  7. SmeargleRocks

    SmeargleRocks Reputable Trader

    EV's 252 Attack, 252 HP, 4 Def
    Cursed Body
    Focus Sash
    Shadow Sneak
    Pain Split / Destiny Bond
    Ice Punch
    Shadow Claw / Trick Room

    I'm not used to it so I don't have the slightest idea how to use it XP
  8. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Well-Known Member

    Banette is a curious pokémon. It has great attack but lacks in speed and defences, but what is more curious is that it actually has a lot of moves in its movepool. Its main problem is not so much lacking moves or stats, but lacking a combination of the right moves with the right stats. It has quite a good special movepool but its stats scream for a physical movepool. Its walling and supporting movepool is amazing but its stats really do not back that up. Its physical movepool on the other hand is quite bad, with Shadow Claw being its best STAB move. It does get Shadow Sneak as priority, and it gets Sucker Punch, which is more powerful priority but less reliable, but that has the same coverage. Apart from Dark and Ghost moves it has no real physical option whatsoever, a real shame. There is a lot wrong with Banette, but at least it is still better than Delibird, Unown, and Luvdisc.

    I think that Banette is one of the pokémon that would actually become something when getting an evolution with eviolite. Eviolite + Cotton Guard + Pain split + Will-o-wisp + Shadow Claw would actually be a viable physical wall but without eviolite its stats just let it down tremendously.
  9. Furret Master

    Furret Master Champion Seeker

    Banette is not much to look at competitively. It's best stat is a great 115 Attack, second being a 83 Sp. Attack, and it's other stats don't go past base 65. Even with decent attacking stats, it's movepool really doesn't support it. It's typing is good, but it has not had great abilities in the past to make up for it's lowly stats. The Dream World gave Banette Cursed Body, which is nice, but it is still a bit lacking. Overall, Banette has a cool design, and some of its tricks really can make up for a few shortcomings, but Banette will continue to have problems standing out competitively among fellow Ghost-type Pokemon.

    Insomnia: Prevents Banette from falling asleep. This ability does allow Banette to counter Sleep-inducers in NU, which are common, so this ability is not bad.
    Frisk: The foe's hold item is revealed when Banette enters the field. Another decent ability, as it allows you to scout the opposition.
    Cursed Body: When the opponent hits Banette with a move, there is a 30% chance that the used move will become disabled. This can royally screw over some Pokemon, so this ability is great is is usually Banette's choice.


    Punching Doll of Doom
    -Shadow Claw
    -Shadow Sneak
    -Gunck Shot
    -Pain Split
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Cursed Body
    Nature: Adamant (+Attack, -Sp. Attack)
    EVs: 252 Attack, 128 Defense, 128 Sp. Defense

    I admit that this set could be seen as bad, but it's hard when a Pokemon doesn't have much to work with. This set does make use of Banette's great Attack, though, so it should not be severely underestimated. Shadow Claw is Same-Type-Attack-Bonus, and the extra critical-hit chance is awesome. Shadow Sneak is weaker than Shadow Claw, but it has priority to help it strike before the opponent, which is great seeing Banette's bad Speed stat. Gunk Shot is kind of filler, but it can get some decent neutral damage, it's high power is useful (though with low accuracy), and a possible Poison chance is good as well. Pain Split is a bit unreliable in terms of recovery, but it can still help to recover HP.

    Life Orb is used to increase Banette's damage output at the cost of some HP each time it damages the opponent. Cursed Body is used to hopefully cripple an opponent by disabling a good move. The Adamant nature boosts Banette's Attack, and the EVs also maximize Attack. The reason EVs are in defenses instead of HP is to increase the capability of Pain Split, although full investment in HP works well also.

    Magical Doll of Doom
    -Calm Mind
    -Shadow Ball
    -Hidden Power [Fighting]
    Item: Leftovers
    Ability: Cursed Body
    Nature: Modest (+ Sp. Attack, -Attack)
    EVs: 252 HP, 248 Defense, 8 Sp. Attack

    This set foregoes Banette's better Attack stat and turns it into a booster that has the potential to survive longer and do more damage. Calm Mind boosts Banette's Sp. Attack and Sp. Defense, while Will-o-Wisp burns the opponent to cut their Attack stat and cause gradual damage. Shadow Ball is powerful STAB and HP Fighting gives perfect neutral coverage alongside a Ghost move.

    Leftovers are great for HP restoration, while Cursed Body is used for the same reason as before. The Modest nature boosts the important offensive stat, while the EVs are set to maximize bulk, since Banette boosts its special stats with Calm Mind. For more damage, however, full investment into Sp. Attack instead of Defense could be done, although Banette would be a bit more physically frail.

    Other Options:
    -A Trick Room set could be done, but Banette is still really frail to try and pull off Trick Room itself, though it is slow enough to take advantage of it.
    -The only other physical move work mentioning are Sucker Punch and Return, both of which are not as useful seeing as they don't offer much to what little Banette already has.
    -Some special move choices include Thunderbolt, Charge Beam, Psychic, Dark Pulse, and Icy Wind. The moves on the Calm Mind set are better, though.

    Checks and Counters:
    Countering Banette is somewhat dependent on which set it runs, but entry hazards and status cripple Banette quite badly, although you need to watch for Pain Split. Priority is also great, since Banette is still quite slow. A good counter to the Calm Mind set would be Flareon, since it it immune to Will-o-Wisp, has great Sp. Defense, and has excellent Attack. Other than that, just keep hammering away quickly and Banette should fall.
  10. Black Murder Heavangelon

    Black Murder Heavangelon Ow! Ow! Harder! Ow!

    Oh Banette.

    Oh man.

    Oh Arceus all mighty.

    Pardon that awkward start to a post. I just had a nostalgia-gasm.

    Banette holds a special place in my heart since it was one of my most used pokemon in the 4th gen, when I was at the peak of my competitive pokemon 'hobby'. The particular Banette I had was a shiny, though I can't exactly remember where I got it (did I get it in a trade???). It lacked Egg moves and was stuck with Insomnia as its ability, but I worked with what I had.

    Enough rambling. Time to lay down what I had learned in playing with Banette when I was at my best (I still lost a lot, but don't discredit me for that, please?). Also thought I should point out that I used this Banette in Doubles (because it's significantly harder to use in Singles).

    Banette@Focus Sash
    Brave Nature - 252 HP/252 Atk/4 Def
    Insomnia Ability
    -Trick Room
    -Destiny Bond/Disable
    -Shadow Claw
    -Sucker Punch

    Banette's most usable moveset and one of my favorites, except I had used Grudge instead of Destiny Bond since it was an Egg move. Banette's slowness and high Attack stat make it a favorable Sash user of Trick Room, delegating it to a one trick pony. But Banette still has a few tricks up its sleeves once the Trick Room is up. Destiny Bond is great, assuming your opponent doesn't have a priority move bar Sucker Punch, Quick Attack, Feint, Mach Punc, or Extremespeed (the former isn't triggered by Destiny Bond). While it is a classic combo to take down an enemy on the second turn, Disable is another option in case you find your opponent doesn't fall for the trick that easily. With the Trick Room inverting the speed, you'll be able to Disable the move they used last turn, which could tip the odds in your favor if that move would've been a KO to one of your pokemon. Either one is vulnerable to priority assuming Focus Sash was set off or deactivated, so it really falls on you whether you want to instantly kill something or be a troll.

    Shadow Claw is Banette's main attack, a godsend in the transition to 4th gen that saved Banette from losing Shadow Ball. It's a great attack for a good reason, high critical hit rate, which means Banette can occasionally take out even a resilient opponent. And when it comes to priority Banette gets Shadow Snea- uh, I mean, Sucker Punch to round things off. The reason why Sucker Punch should be used over Shadow Sneak is that Sucker Punch is still stronger than Shadow Sneak, even with STAB. Base 80 Power beats base 60 power, with STAB included. While a bit unreliable, it is Banette's other hardest hitting move.

    Other Moves
    Grudge was the move I used the most with my Banette, and you may scoff at its usefulness. While completely draining a move's PP to 0 upon KO, that still leaves 3 other moves to deal with. The trick here is to drain a move that would have hit the rest of your team super effectively. Most people don't realize that Grudge can help out teams with type overlap. Allow me to explain. If Banette falls to a Dark move and Grudge drains their PP, they still have 3 other moves to wreck your team with, especially if they had Baton Passed boosts. but then you send in say, another Ghost type, and you had just drained one of their best moves to deal with said Ghost types. You can also Grudge Pursuit or a priority move that would've otherwise KOd your next pokemon before they could have a chance at dealing with that opponent. Monotype teams, take note!
    Cotton Guard is a nifty move that can be used with Cursed Body, giving Banette a suddenly bulky moveset. It still leaves your Sp.Def vulnerable, but a moveset with Pain Split and some stalling moves in Knock Off and Taunt with the ability Cursed Body can be usable.
    Role Play only works for one ability, and that's Frisk. The other abilities of Banette you'd rather keep, Insomnia for avoiding sleep to set up Trick Room, and Cursed Body to give your opponents the middle finger. But with Frisk, once you've revealed an item, you can then copy a desired ability with Role Play. Frisk will come back when you switch out and in, allowing you to keep up the perpetual scouting.
    Skill Swap does the same thing as Role Play, but it's better used with Frisk like before. Frisk won't activated when Swapped (at least, I don't think it does) so you can nab a better used ability while leaving them with nothing.
    Magic Coat bounces back statuses and Taunt, which is really helpful if Banette needs to set off a Trick Room.
    Imprison gets a mention for permanently blocking the usage of Sucker Punch, allowing Banette to attack uninterrupted without being cheated first.
    Helping Hand is an extremely rare move, found only on the Banette purified in Pokemon XD. An absolutely great move for Ghost types, used in tandem with a teammate's Explosion (the only other pokemon that can do this are Telepathy Gardevoir, Musharna, Medicham, and other Ghost types purified in XD namely the Duskull line and Sableye). The only catch is no Egg Moves and you're stuck with Insomnia, but it's a rare niche.
  11. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    STAB = 50% damage bonus, so a base 60 power move actually has base 90 power. I.E. STAB Shadow Sneak is stronger than non-STAB Sucker Punch. So, no, you're wrong.
  12. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    ...No, he was right, and you're wrong. Shadow Sneak has base 40 power. Base 60 is what it equates to with STAB factored in already. Non-STAB Sucker Punch is stronger than STAB Shadow Sneak.
  13. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Well-Known Member

    Yeah, just realized SS is 60 base power. Sorry, my fault, you're right. XD
  14. HeyI'mChubby

    HeyI'mChubby and (kind of) proud!

    Yesterday, Sunday, I was excited for this POTW, then I found out it was Banette. Ewww...

    You could use it on a Trick Room team, which is yet to be suggested, but still... No.
  15. 11wildy

    11wildy Meep

    I actually use one in my NU team, because it helps me beat Psychic types, as well as things that use Sleep moves.

    Banette@Choice Band
    Adamant Nature - 252 Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
    Insomnia Ability
    -Shadow Claw
    -Shadow Sneak
    -Sucker Punch

    Doesn't get the best coverage, I just didn't know what would be a good replacement for Sucker Punch.
  16. Miror

    Miror Seeker of the Blood Staff Member Moderator

    Instead of posting an extremely basic, outclassed set every week just to get first post, you could actually put some effort into actually providing a set that is usable in POTW. Running double status generally doesn't work too well, especially with this slow of a Pokemon, and Hex relies solely on you actually being able to use this status and fails to take advantage of Banette's much higher Attack stat. Cursed Body and Sucker Punch are actually usable on Banette, so I'll leave those be. Another thing that would be useful/actually make it so this post gets a little consideration is if you added EVs and Nature so we actually have some idea of what you expect this set to do.
  17. Rezzuréct

    Rezzuréct Allez Les Bleus!

    Banette? Really? /sighs....

    Trick Room set will do, but just no...

    Banette @ Focus Sash / Leftovers
    Cursed Body
    252 Atk / 252 HP / 4 Def
    Brave Nature
    - Trick Room
    - Shadow Sneak
    - Destiny Bond
    - Toxic / Will-O-Wisp

    Got hit. Sash. Set up TR. Destiny Bond the opponent then probably gonna dead. And you could also give status with Toxic. But yeah still, Banette doesn't really good at competitive battling. Outclassed by many other physical walls. But, go nuts!
  18. sbktdreed

    sbktdreed Veteran Trainer

    Cursed Body w/ Life Orb
    Adamant w/ 255 Attack, 255 HP [Note: The other stats are too low for any good use]
    Shadow Claw
    Sucker Punch
    Trick Room

    High Defense pokemon with Ghost/Dark-type moves.
    Official NU Counters: Shadow Ball Weezing/Gorebyss/Glaceon, Crunch Huntail/Torterra/Stoutland
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2013
  19. Rayofquazar

    Rayofquazar Well-Known Member

    Banette is an underrated pokemon... Use it, if you want a totally unpredictable force in your team. Banette's attack shines above all it's other stats with a massive 115 BP, it's ghost typing is enough to let it strike fear in your opponent's heart! although banette in defensively unpresent and it has some issues with speed, but who cares? Banette is a walking doll... Thats enough for me!

    Seriously speaking, banette is underwhelming and boring, all you can do with it is set up trick room and hope to inflict a status... Toxic or wisps.
    If you want your banette to be more effective you'll have to support very well... In the best conditions for banette is the presence of screens and a 2 to 3 boosts for speed from ninjask then it can "sweep". Another requirement is you don't like baton passing is trick room but careful of slower foes!

    Even supported with some speed, defense and attack to a lesser extent, there is always a better choice for a team than banette. Why would someone spent 7 turns setting up for something like banette to try to sweep and not something like.... Mmmmm, anything else and sweep!?
  20. During the month that the PU ladder was up, I was usually running variants of an offensive team that utilized Custap Pineco to lay down hazards as quickly as possible before running over the opponent with my sweepers. I tossed Banette on there as sort of an emergency offensive spinblocker, and although I didn't see many spinners besides (lol) Sandshrew, Banette never left the team. It actually turned out to be one of the best Pokemon I tried in the tier.

    Banette @ Life Orb
    Trait: Cursed Body
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spd
    Adamant Nature
    -Sucker Punch
    -Destiny Bond
    -Thunder Wave / Taunt / Shadow Claw

    It's hard to pinpoint exactly what Banette did on my team. I guess the best title would have to be "Disruption Pokemon." Banette just caused so many problems whenever he came in on a slower opponent. I almost always was able to get at least one burn and a kill, possibly even two kills. So many people forget about Destiny Bond, and so they'll just attack to their heart's content with slowpokes like Gigalith and such, letting Banette take an opponent down with him. Sucker Punch was also a very useful priority attack, helping to keep dangerous but frail Pokemon like Simipour and Beheeyem in check. The last slot was pretty flexible, and I tried a number of different options. Thunder Wave was the most recent that I tried before the DDoS attack occured and Pokemon Showdown! went offline, just before PU's ladder month was over and the ladder was removed. It was awesome for giving me a secondary status to inflict on Pokemon that didn't mind Will-O-Wisp much (namely opposing special sweepers), and it also helped against cocky Combuskens who thought they could set up on me with impunity due to their immunity to Will-O-Wisp and resistance to Sucker Punch. Taunt helped wear down slower Pokemon that might try to heal up on Banette, and it synergized very well with Destiny Bond and Sucker Punch. Shadow Claw was the first option I ever tried, and it was alright. It provided Banette with a decently powerful STAB move for killing off anything slower and weak enough, but I didn't use it often.

    Obviously, there are plenty of Pokemon in NU and above that do this sort of thing better (Drifblim immediately comes to mind), but Banette turned out really good in PU.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page