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Community POTW #134

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jun 9, 2019.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    Swampert is popular on rain teams. It's seen on most of them as their mega evolution of choice, and for good reason. Swift Swim gives it a lot of speed, 150 base attack with a rain boost lets it hit hard, its defensive stats are only five points shy of the bulky Suicune, and it grants rain teams a nice answer to electric attacks with its ground typing. It is awfully weak to Grass moves and Freeze-Dry though, so it needs to play around those. Pelipper can often remove Grass types with Hurricane, but Freeze-Dry users are harder to deal with on rain teams as Swampert is far from the only rain staple 4x weak to it (see Ludicolo, Gyarados, Pelipper, Kingdra, Gastrodon). Alolan Ninetales in particular can be threatening, removing the rain when it switches in, and without the rain it can outspeed Swampert and KO with Freeze-Dry. Lapras can also switch in on it. Although it doesn't remove rain or even come close to outspeeding, it is immune to Waterfall and it also has Freeze-Dry to threaten back.

    Swampert @ Swampertite
    Ability: Torrent
    Adamant nature
    Evs: 4 HP, 252 Attack, 252 Speed
    - Waterfall
    - Earthquake
    - Protect
    - Ice Punch / Rock Slide

    The Swampert you're most likely to see. Waterfall over Aqua Tail for the increased accuracy and flinching chance, and it'll hurt with STAB, Swampert's high attack stat, and a rain boost. Earthquake is a powerful secondary move to eliminate Electric types and just to have spread damage, and it's particularly nice to use next to Pelipper or Gyarados. Protect keeps Swampert safe for a turn from incoming Grass attacks from the likes of Tapu Bulu while its partner takes care of the threat, and the final move is mostly filler. Ice Punch allows Swampert to at least try to deal with Grass types on its own, although it's not going to KO most of them not called Mega Sceptile, and gives Swampert a move to deal with Mega Salamence. Rock Slide is spread damage mostly valued for the flinching chance, it won't be doing too much damage without STAB. You can also run other moves in this last slot, like Wide Guard, Mirror Coat, Counter, Roar, Stealth Rock, Rain Dance, or others. They all have their own unique niche uses, and Swampert is mostly going to spam Waterfall anyway so it's not exceptionally important.

    An Adamant nature with max attack ensures Swampert deals as much damage as possible. Maximum speed investment means that Swampert will outspeed Choice Scarf Tapu Lele and Choice Scarf Landorus-Therian in the rain even if they have speed boosting natures.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    WishIhadaManafi5 likes this.
  3. Divine Retribution

    Divine Retribution Master of the freak show

    Swampert is a Pokemon that hasn't really changed since Gen 4... at least in its base form. Gen 6 gave him access to a Mega evolution that completely transforms his playstyle, changing him from a bulky tank into a potent Swift Swim sweeper. Gen 7 further benefitted Mega Swampert, as he now gets the speed boost from Swift Swim on the turn that he Mega evolves, meaning he doesn't have to run Protect to safely mega evolve anymore, nor does he have to waste a turn of rain using it. It also introduced Drizzle Pelipper, a much better rain setter than Politoed as it can actually support its team outside of just setting rain. Being by far the strongest Swift Swim user with a fantastic typing for rain teams that gives him a key immunity to Electric, Mega Swampert is almost mandatory when making a rain team.

    [​IMG]
    Swampert @ [​IMG] Swampertite
    Adamant - Damp
    252 Attack, 4 Sp. Def, 252 Speed
    -Waterfall
    -Earthquake
    -Ice Punch
    -Stealth Rock

    This is Mega Swampert's flagship set, and it's rather simple. Waterfall is his strongest STAB under the rain, and it comes with a healthy 20% chance to Flinch the opponent, which can help break through some bulkier opponents such as Mew. Earthquake is a great secondary STAB that hammers Toxapex and at least discourages Ferrothorn from coming in for free. Ice Punch hits Garchomp hard, and does some damage to Grass-types like Serperior, Tapu Bulu, and Tangrowth. Swampert can also carry Stealth Rock, which can be difficult to fit onto some rain teams as Ferrothorn is already strapped for moveslots. Swampert can also threaten Mega Sableye, although it runs the risk of being burned in the process. If you don't need Swampert to set rocks, Rain Dance, Superpower, and Stone Edge are all solid alternatives. Rain Dance lets Swampert set his own rain, albeit with a shorter duration than Damp Rock Pelipper's rain, Superpower is Swampert's strongest weapon against Ferrothorn, who can otherwise be a massive nuisance to rain teams, and Stone Edge hits Mantine, Gyarados, and opposing Pelipper hard, who can otherwise wall Mega Swampert. Damp is the preferred ability as it stops lead Landorus-Therian and Azelf from using Explosion, but honestly neither base ability is all that useful.

    Similar to Kingdra, Mega Swampert is generally used on highly formulaic rain teams, and you'll often see similar partners for the two of them. In fact, Kingdra itself is one of Mega Swampert's most common partners, along with Ferrothorn and Pelipper.




    As for regular Swampert, he may not have changed much since Gen 4, and he may not have kept up with power creep very well, but he's still a good pick in lower tiers.


    [​IMG]
    Swampert @ [​IMG] Leftovers
    Relaxed - Torrent
    252 HP, 252 Defence, 4 Sp. Def
    -Scald
    -Earthquake
    -Stealth Rock
    -Roar

    This is more or less the same set Swampert has been running for nearly a decade, albeit with Scald occupying the Water STAB slot now. Swampert's great natural bulk and typing makes him a fantastic tank, blanket checking a variety of physical threats, Fire types, and Electric types in the lower tiers. Scald is used as the Water STAB on this set as the chance to burn certain switchins is more valuable than Waterfall's slightly higher damage and Flinch chance, the latter of which he's unlikely to get any use from due to his low Speed. Earthquake is used for when more consistent damage is desired, and to check opposing Electric types that might threaten his team. Stealth Rock lets him support his team with entry hazards, and Roar lets him shuffle the opposing team, racking up hazard damage and preventing him from being setup bait.

    Swampert appreciates teammates that can cover his massive Grass weakness. Such teammates may include Scizor, Moltres, and Latias. What he generally offers to a team is a sturdy physical tank who damn near hard counters most of the premiere Electric and Fire types in the tier, such as Rotom-H, Mega Manectric, Infernape, and Raikou, as well as a Stealth Rock user that can threaten some of the tier's premiere Defog users, like Empoleon and Rotom-H. Togekiss is a particularly good partner for Swampert, as Togekiss has no problem checking the Grass types that Swampert fears, while Swampert makes short work of Electric and Rock types that can threaten Togekiss. Togekiss also sponges powerful Dragon moves from the likes of Hydreigon and Latias that can overwhelm Swampert due to its only average special bulk.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    WishIhadaManafi5 likes this.
  4. XaelOstigian

    XaelOstigian Competitive...kinda

    I just know everyone is going to talk about Mega Swampert today. Can't blame them given the Mega is a mega improvement:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    But as ridiculously powerful as a boosted Mega Swampert is in rain, I'd like to give a shout-out to the original Hoenn water starter who has somehow gone complexly by the wayside:
    [​IMG]
    Back in the day, regular Swampert was a strong and bulky threat, being one of the few truly bulky fully evolved starters, it must have been hard deciding between Sceptile, Blaziken and Swampert. So I'm actually going to pay pre-Mega Swampert its dues today.

    Swamp Thing
    Ability: Torrent
    Item: Leftovers/Chesto Berry
    Nature: Careful (+Sp. Def. -Sp. Att.)
    EV's: HP: 252 Def: 4 Sp. Def: 252

    Moves:
    Curse
    Earthquake
    Waterfall
    Rest

    Set Details:
    A good old-fashioned Curse set that I used to run back in Gen 3. Still pretty reliable now...provided your opponent's Grass Pokemon and attacks have been dealt with. Boost your physical offenses and defenses with Curse to become a greater physical threat, and with your HP and Sp. Def. maxed out Swampert should prove to be a sturdy wall against when used in tangent with Curse's defense boost. It's STAB's Earthquake and Waterfall have great coverage against threats that aren't Grass types, but you HOPEFULLY won't stay in against those Pokemon since they will mop the floor with you regardless of how much you boost. Sadly unlike its other Water/Ground brothers Quagsire and Gastrodon which have access to Recover, so Swampert will have to make due with Rest to heal its lost health. Give Whiscash some credit. At least it got Hydration to make Rest more viable in the rain, so you may want consider having Swampert hold a Chesto Berry instead of Leftovers just to give you a free heal at least until you have enough boosts from Curse.


    Fill the Swamp
    Ability: Torrent
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Impish (+ Def. -Sp. Att.)
    EV's: HP: 252 Def: 156 Sp.Def: 100

    Moves:
    Stealth Rock
    Yawn
    Earthquake/Bulldoze
    Waterfall/Toxic

    Set Details:
    Swampert as a lead. Lay down Stealth Rocks, use Yawn which will either force your opponent to switch and take residual Stealth Rock damage or stay in and force them to sacrifice one of their teammates to the sleep condition allowing you to nail them with your Earthquake and Waterfall STAB's without worry. You could also swap Earthquake for Bulldoze to further incapacitate your target by dropping their speed which either will Swampert to outpace its victim or provide added pressure for your opponent to switch out and each Stealth Rocks. You could also run Toxic in place of Waterfall to wear down problem walls that can sponge Swampert's attacks and it provides additional status coverage if the "Sleep Clause" is in effect.
     
    WishIhadaManafi5 likes this.
  5. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    [​IMG]
    Pokemon Adventures lieked Mudkipz before it was cool.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    Swampert is often associated with Brendan of the games through his manga & anime portrayals.

    Ruby & Brendan's Ace Pokemon, Swampert
    I am a huge HUGE Swampert fan. When I got my hands on Ruby & Sapphire for the first time, I knew just who I had to pick when I saw Mudkip for the first time. So it filled me some joy to see Brendan's cameo in the anime to use Swampert. Unfortunately the anime doesn't seem to think much of Swampert as it had very few noteworthy roles. However never fear my fellow Swampert fans, the Pokemon Adventures manga has got your back in that one of the major main characters, Ruby who is based on Brendan, chooses Mudkip as his starter Pokemon, eventually evolving into the powerful Swampert and later mega-evolving by the ORAS chapter into Mega Swampert which is an absolute beast on the battlefield... and in tough Pokemon contests if your into that sort of thing.

    Swift Swim Swampert

    Swampert
    Item: Swampertite
    Ability: Torrent
    Nature: Adamant (+Atk, - Sp. Atk)
    EVs: 180 HP/252 Atk/ 76 Spe
    Waterfall
    Earthquake
    Ice Punch
    Brick Break/Protect/Low Kick

    Swampert's unique typing and stats aloen cemented itself as the stronger Hoenn starter until Gen V gave Blaziken the ability Speed Boost, many feeling that Blaziken could perform better roles than Swampert but oh boy, Swampert has gotten a Mega Evolution and Mega Swampert is a power-house on the field in terms of offense, defense and speed thanks to it's ability Swift Swim which doubles it's speed to terrifying proportions under rain. Due to this, Mega Swampert is so versatile that it's EVs can be customized in a number ways while maintaining Swift Swim's speed. With this, you'll be able to counter almost every unboosted Pokemon on the field. The problem with this set, and I know because I have used a similar set but with an old Gen 6 move no longer in-use called Power-Up Punch, is other Mega Swamperts who have investment in full speed EVs, especially in doubles as it all counts down to a game of "who can attack the other first?".
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    Aquaslash likes this.
  6. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    @shoz999 You're missing 4 EVs in your set, and at least for level 50s you're also wasting 4 EVs on your HP stat as the total is divisible by 8. Also, why Brick Break?
     
  7. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    Good eye but for me, it's really a bad habit of mines. I go up to 504 and forget the little 4 EVs that go up to 508. As for Brick Break, it's Swampert's only fighting move with consistently good damage and doesn't require any sacrifice to it's stat. I'm not exactly a huge fan of Super Power's cost and if I were to replace Power-Up Punch with a more up-to-date move, I'd probably go for Brick Break. It's not a nuke-level move like Superpower but it has consistency at least. Unless of course your asking this because you know of an even better consistent move than Brick Break?
     
  8. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    I know that Superpower is usually the standard in doubles, if it has Fighting coverage at all. I think Fighting coverage is primarily relevant for Ferrothorn and Kartana, there's very little else of note that it hits because STAB Waterfall in the rain already hits so hard on neutral hits additional super effective coverage from fighting doesn't really add too much. A bit more damage but often not worth it to sacrifice flinching and Swampert's stats. I suppose you could go for Low Kick, that hits Ferrothorn as a base 100 power move, more powerful than Brick Break. Against Ferrothorn that's a 2KO, just like Superpower, although very physically defensive variants might avoid the 2KO depending on builds and luck. Brick Break doesn't get the 2KO at all. Against Kartana Low Kick deals virtually no damage, but Superpower also fails to OHKO. Kartana might be a slightly less relevant target however, it gets destroyed by most neutral special moves like Pelipper's Hurricane, so using Protect on Swampert to save it from a Leaf Blade while Pelipper eliminates it with Hurricane is often a better play.

    Edit: For the Ferrothorn match-up it's worth noting that a 100 base power Low Kick over two hits has the same damage output (approximately, there are some rounding effects and non-linearities but they're negligible in the overall picture) as Superpower has over two hits.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2019
    shoz999 likes this.
  9. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    I forgot about Low Kick but Low Kick really is a good move. Most steel and rock-type Pokemon in-general weigh a lot. Someone like Kartana is obviously the exception to this rule and although I still think Superpower's price for using it is still annoying, I can see what your saying of how relevant Superpower is compared to Low Kick and Brick Break since it would be able to do some great damage against both Ferrothorn and Kartana.
     
  10. Sceptile Leaf Blade

    Sceptile Leaf Blade Nighttime Guardian

    At least in doubles, the thing that makes the match-up against Kartana less relevant is that even Superpower doesn't get the OHKO, and Kartana isn't an opponent Swampert wants to let get a single hit on it because if it lands that Leaf Blade it gets a Beast Boost and can start snowballing. It's better to get some assistance with special moves from Swampert's partner to weaken if not outright KO Kartana before it gets to land that Leaf Blade on Swampert. Something like Ludicolo's Ice Beam brings Kartana into deep yellow if not red health (depending on damage roll), which combined with Swampert's Waterfall is sufficient to eliminate it even through Kartana's Water resistance. Ludicolo can also get the OHKO on Kartana with rain-boosted Hydro Pump if you run that over Scald on it (or have a Life Orb, in which case Scald can also OHKO).
     
    shoz999 likes this.
  11. shoz999

    shoz999 Do you wanna try a good Tapu Cocoa? My treat.

    I know that, I'm talking about a 2KO after Kartana is in the KO zone, although now that you brought up how Waterfall alone is enough to eliminate Kartana after it's struck by a powerful special move, that kind of puts Superpower into more question again, at least in the Kartana example.
     
  12. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    The problem with Brick Break is that a 2x SE Brick Break is only marginally more powerful than a neutral Earthquake.

    252 Atk Swampert-Mega Brick Break vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 146-172 (56.3 - 66.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Swampert-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 144-171 (55.5 - 66%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    252 Atk Swampert-Mega Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 142-168 (40.3 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
    252 Atk Swampert-Mega Brick Break vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 142-168 (40.3 - 47.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

    Superpower, on the other hand, at least has raw power.

    252 Atk Swampert-Mega Superpower vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kartana: 230-272 (88.8 - 105%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO (68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock)
    252 Atk Swampert-Mega Superpower vs. 252 HP / 24 Def Ferrothorn: 226-268 (64.2 - 76.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery

    Mega Swampert's fourth slot is generally filler, since Waterfall/Earthquake/Ice Punch has pretty good coverage in general with only a few holes. As DR already mentioned, Stealth Rock / Superpower / Stone Edge are your most common choices due to the utility they have. With its lack of power Brick Break really doesn't offer Mega Swampert much of anything as its coverage is offset by low damage. That's what makes Superpower so much more common; the attack drop may be a bummer, but its raw power and ability to shut down some common threats not only to Swampert but to Rain Teams in general makes it invaluable. So say no to Brick Break; it's just not worth it.
     
    shoz999 likes this.
  13. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    Yawn can be a nice surprise if you are forcing a switch, or whirlpool. Nobody expects either of those.
     
    WishIhadaManafi5 and shoz999 like this.
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