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Community POTW #137

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jun 5, 2016.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

  2. Lord Fighting

    Lord Fighting Bank Ball Collector

    Well this thing only has like 1 possible moveset due to its horrible special movepool.

    Serperior @Leftovers/Assault Vest
    252/252 Spd + SpAtk 4 HP

    -Leaf storm
    -giga drain
    -HP Fire
    -Dragon Pulse

    Spam leaf storm until you get to +6 then attempt to sweep. Giga drain is to keep you healthy whilst HP fire and dragon pulse are essential coverage moves for anything that resists your grass stab.
  3. Chinonso

    Chinonso Therians

    Serperior, of the three Unova starters, has been proven to be the most popular one due to it having an amazing Hidden Ability which allowed for it to leap into OU, despite having a slighly unique stat distribution, making it a fast, more defensive Pokemon.

    + Contrary turns Serperior to a killing machine in the space of one or two turns. What would've been an unfortunate 2-stage stat drop from Leaf Storm becomes a 2-stage stat increase. It'll eventually get to the point where even resisted hits OHKO.
    + Its Speed is great. Base 113 is certainly useful to outspeed the bigger threats that occupy OU, such as Garchomp, Mega Charizard X and Latios.
    + Both of its defences are at Base 95, which is also decent in sponging hits while trying to get your Special Attack up.
    + It learns Glare, which is a nice crippling paralysis move.

    - Outside of HP Fire, Dragon Pulse, Leaf Storm and Giga Drain, Serperior doesn't really have much in terms of a Special movepool. There's Energy Ball if you really want to go there.
    - Base 75 HP could be better in complimenting its bulk.
    - Outside of boosts, Base 75 Attack and Special Attack aren't particularly amazing. But this one can slide, since as soon as you get to +2, you're already OHKO-ing a Max HP Garchomp.
    - It's a Grass-type, so it has to live with 5 weaknesses to Fire, Flying, Bug, Ice and Poison.

    Overgrow: When HP is below 1/3rd its maximum, power of Grass-type moves is increased by 50%. Nice in a pinch, but it's overshadowed greatly by its other ability.
    Hidden Ability (Available):
    Contrary: Moves used on the Pokémon that raise stats lower the stats, while the moves that lower the stats raise the stat. Works brilliantly on Leaf Storm, and absolutely nothing else. Needless to say, this ability defines Serperior, and is the reason why it's in OU.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  4. Swoobat

    Swoobat Well-Known Member

    Only one set? Substitute, Leech Seed, Glare, Taunt are all very viable.
  5. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    That's putting it lightly. Serperior's viability absolutely skyrocketed with the addition of Contrary.

    That said, in a singles context, just gonna put it out there that there were people who legitimately believed Serperior would not rise out of NU even after getting Contrary. Now Serperior is A- viability in OU. Talk about being criminally underrated.

    Parts of this are correct. For every set, Leaf Storm is standard, while HP Fire and Dragon Pulse are standard on offensive sets. Assault Vest, however, is not standard. Typically Serperior's either gonna use Leftovers or Life Orb; although Life Orb puts it on a timer, the damage allows it to pressure a lot of its checks, since things like Mega Metagross, Mega Charizard X, etc. hate eating the appropriate coverage move at +2 with Life Orb.

    As for moves, Giga Drain is pretty much always slashed. Glare is actually its most common fourth move, since it allows it to royally screw over some of its would-be counters, such as Tornadus-T and Mega Charizard Y (although the latter only counters if Stealth Rock is not up). There are a handful of 'Mons that really don't fear any attacks from Serperior but the paralysis from Glare can cripple them immensely.

    SubSeed is a set although personally I find it more situational than all-out offensive. It can be a nuisance to things like Chansey and Heatran though, who otherwise don't fear too much from Serperior, but of course you have to give up a coverage move to make it work so you become walled by more things as well. Taunt and Synthesis are also options as well, and one that can really allow Serperior to be a nuisance towards Stall and some more passive 'Mons. Finally, Knock Off is an other option, since although it's pretty weak, it does have useful utility in stripping foes of their items.

    Although Serperior's offensive movepool may be garbage, it does have options, so best not to neglect those.
  6. Kraleck

    Kraleck Well-Known Member

    Serperior. I like this thing. Good defenses and Speed and an interesting Ability to boot.

    -HP - Above Average - Base 75 is a decent, but not great start for a Grass Type.
    -Attack - Below Average - Base 75 is usable, but you really need a Coil buff or two on top of a Super-Effective hit to make significant dents.
    -Defense - Good-bordering-Great - Base 95 is pretty good for a Grass Type. After a Coil or two, you can sponge a few blows.
    -Sp.Atk - Below Average - Base 75 means your Special game seems equally usable, but Contrary Leaf Storm cranks it up to 11.
    -Sp.Def - Good-bordering-Great - Base 95 is also pretty good for a Grass Type. Unfortunately, you don't have the luxury of Coil to help it like your Defense.
    -Speed - Great-bordering-Godly (non-Trick Room) - Base 113 is huge for a Grass Type without Chlorophyll. You can often get a Coil, Leech Seed, or quick hit in unless you face priority.

    -Overgrow - Standard starter fare. If you run Coil on a set, you will be using this Ability. However, Leaf Storm meshes insanely well with...
    -Contrary - ...inverted Stat modifications. Eating Intimidates and snowballing Leaf Storms is a huge asset of this Ability.

    Overall, Serperior requires a few offensive boosts to get going, but has Speed and defenses on its side. Coil sets require Overgrow, but Contrary is a fun way to go, too. Leech Seed pairs well with Coil on defensive sets. Aqua Tail and Iron Tail pair very well with Coil and against many things you may hate to face (Fire Types, Ice Types, and Fairy Types).
  7. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Just gonna put this out there, but physical sets, whether they're utilizing Coil or Swords Dance, are not viable at all and shouldn't be considered. They weren't viable in in Gen 5, and they're not any more viable now. Contrary is literally the only reason Serperior should be used; getting a free Nasty Plot boost when utilizing a base 130 power STAB attack is just an amazing deal, and giving it up to passively boost just really isn't smart. Physical sets aren't even an OO.
  8. Psynergy

    Psynergy Strong Winds Staff Member Super Mod

    Friendly reminder that Serperior walls Mega Kangaskhan.

    Serperior @ Rocky Helmet
    Ability: Contrary
    EVs: 116 HP / 220 Def / 172 Spe
    Timid Nature
    - Leaf Storm
    - Synthesis
    - Reflect
    - Glare

    Not my set but if you play Battle Spot, trust me this works 100% of the time against Kangaskhan (unless it's like special Kang) and basically any physical attacker that isn't super-effective against it. 110% sure this set would still be good there if Kangaskhan didn't exist. Japanese players are wonderful.
  9. The Umbreon Tamer

    The Umbreon Tamer Spiffing!

    Well, there's always SubSeed:

    -Leech Seed
    -Leaf Storm
    -HP Fire
    56 HP/ 200 SpAtk/ 252 Spe
    Timid Nature

    One of the only Pokemon that can really do this well is Serp, due to his high Speed and ability to retain great offensive presence via Contrary Leaf Storm. Substitute stallbreaks and (hopefully) lets you Leech Seed your foe safely and stall them out. Leech Seed is what makes this set work, recovering HP lost to Substitute and damaging your opponent slightly each turn. Leaf Storm boosts your offensive presence and damages foes. Finally, HP Fire hits Steels and Grasses, who resist Leaf Storm and are immune to Leech Seed in the Grasses' case.
  10. ericgall23

    ericgall23 Pokémon Fan

    Serperior can be really good with Coil, coz i have used one myself before. Altough Contrary sets may be better, i admit, Coil with Overgrow can be good enough, and it is more coommon and easy to get, coz in Unova, we always receive a Snivy with Overgrow right?

    The set i think is good with Coil:

    *Abitlity is, of course, Overgrow, since contrary will lower its stays, which is really not good (almost a joke too!)...**

    Leaf Blade
    Dragon Tail
    Aqua tail / Iron Tail

    Coil boost its atk, def, and accuracy. and knowing that Dragon Tail, Aqua tail and Iron Tail have Accuracy 90 or less, it is really good, and it boost the atk power too.
    Leaf blade is its stab physical grass move, altough the accuracy is 100%, but it benefits form coil ,which is good.
    Dragon Tail cause damage and switch the foes pokemon, and damages dragon who resist Grass moves.
    Aqua Tail hits fire-type who resits leaf blade, and cause normal damage to steel types, who resits all other moves.
    Iron Tail can hit Fairies, but i think aqua tail is more usefull.

    Reminder: Do nut use Coil with Contrary, because it will lower your stars instead of increasing them. but i think everyone knows that.

    Also, i noticed that the POTW are getting shorter and shorter, especially in the introduction of the Pokemon. Does this mean the site will close and the passion is drying up? .. that is very sad if it is, but i hope not, coz the site is really great, and i always consult the Pokedex section when i play... ;)
  11. Karxrida

    Karxrida Lost in the Waves

    Coil is trash. Just spam Contrary Leaf Storm.


    Miracle Seed needs a mention, since it allows for boosted Grass moves without dealing with Life Orb recoil. Most notably, you can still secure the 2HKO on Unaware Clefable after Rocks (50% without Rocks).

    Coba Berry with HP Rock can let you lure Talonflame, but it's pretty niche and not totally reliable since it may just Flare Blitz you.
  12. Mestorn

    Mestorn Wandering Battler

    Skinning Serperior

    Heatran dead stop. Anything barring Hidden Power Ground is walled by Heatran and even an uninvested Lava Plume will take off 3/4s of a Serperior's HP. Volcarona and Mega Charizard Y can weather Serperior's assault before too many boosts, but Stealth Rock can compromise their walling ability. Talonflame and Mega Pinsir and come in and easily revenge kill Serperior with their priority (although Mega Pinsir needs some prior damage), though neither like a Boosted Dragon Pulse and switching into a Glare would be devastating. After this it gets trickier, as Serperior is so fast and snowballs so quickly that if you don't put it down quickly, it will sweep your team. Other priority users like Mamoswine (I know its UU, sue me), Breloom, and (Mega) Scizor (who can take unboosted Hidden Powers fairly well) can easily pick off a weakened Serperior with their priority moves. Serperior's speed tier is especially problematic as few can outspeed it. Those that can (Weavile, Mega Lopunny, Tornadus-T, Mega Manectric, and most Choice Scarfers with Super Effective attacks) can come it and hit it hard, taking it out before it can snowball. Note that none of them like eating a boosted attack, and their dislike of Glare goes without saying. If the worst happens and you let Serperior get 3 Leaf Storms off, you probably don't have much of a team left, but there are a few pokémon that can eat a +6 Serperior. Chansey, Blissey, Assault Vest Goodra and Mega Venusaur can all eat A single +6 attack from Serperior... Try your best to make most of the one shot you get.
  13. Polipuff

    Polipuff Artisan of Words

    Aww geez. I love this guy. My starter for W2! Contrary Leafstorm wreaks everything, hp kills all the not very effective mons, and the giga drain gives health back. Glare for paralysis. The moves it gets is kinda horrible though, so not many possible sets.
  14. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    One other option I'm surpised we haven't seen yet in mirror coat. Its great for scarf heatran,
    252 SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Assault Vest Serperior: 228-270 (78.3 - 92.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Serperior then mirror coats the magma storm back and OHKOs.

    0 SpA Heatran Lava Plume vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Serperior: 224-266 (76.9 - 91.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    Even if you're not running Assault Vest mirror coat can take out defensive heatrans pretty well

    Normally I wouldn't suggest mirror coat at all, but Serperior's movepool is pretty poor.
  15. Missingno. Master

    Missingno. Master Poison-type Trainer

    A Smug Sense Of Serperiority
    Serperior@Life Orb
    Timid nature
    252 Sp. Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
    ~Leaf Storm
    ~Dragon Pulse
    ~Wring Out
    ~Glare/Giga Drain/Leech Seed

    First off, I feel this needs to be said. Yesterday, I was considering posting my bit for the Aegislash thread, but ultimately decided against it, since I had nothing much beyond the standard set to offer, and I figured nobody needed to be told that. Then I saw the Aegislash PotW entry. Holy crap, was I wrong! No mention of Iron Head, or Shadow Sneak, or Sacred Sword, or Weakness Policy whatsoever! Just some weird, obscure Toxic/Pursuit set that's being passed off as the standard set. And what really stings is, this seems so much like some of the more gimmicky sets I myself post that never see the light of the PotW entries in favor of the more standard stuff. Wow. I mean, these things got passing mentions in Other Options, and even then, only in the VGC section, and that's it. Wow. I mean, King's Shield/Shadow Sneak/Iron Head/Sacred Sword with Weakness Policy, that's basically the Aegislash set right there.

    But enough about that, just had to get that off my chest. But yeah, onto Serperior. So yeah, Leaf Storm is your main move here, both for dealing damage and for boosting Special Attack. Dragon Pulse is for extra coverage, and Wring Out, it's actually pretty good for doing a buttload of damage to stuff with full HP. Last slot's your call- Giga Drain is a decent attacking option that can also heal you up, and Leach Seed... well, that's always useful. But my personal favorite is Glare. Guaranteed paralysis, Ground-types aren't immune, what's not to like? And Serperior's pretty fast, so you can paralyze some similarly fast threats.

    Item powers up Serperior. Ability makes Leaf Storm the key to this set.

    Other options:
    *Serperior doesn't have the best coverage, which makes Hidden Power seem like an appealing option... but that low base power does not really appeal to me. Or to anyone barring Technician users, really.
    *Calm Mind would be a pretty appealing option were it not for Contrary being absolutely necessary.
    *Alternatively, if you want to do a physical attacking set, you can forego Contrary Leaf Storm and go with Coil, Leaf Blade, and coverage moves like Aqua Tail, Outrage, and Iron Tail. Not what Serperior is best at by any means, but it's possible at any rate.
    *Mirror Coat is an interesting option if you can find room for it.
    *Gastro Acid might be good for forcing switches if you use it right, though overall seems a bit situational.

    *Overgrow/B]: When Serperior's HP falls below 1/3rd of its maximum, its Grass-type moves become 30% more powerful. It can have its uses, no question, but... yeah, only if you're gonna run a Coil set or something, because there is...
    *Contrary: Serperior's long-awaited Hidden Ability. Anything that would reduce Serperior's stats increases them instead, and vice versa. Oh my Arceus, how long have we been waiting for this? This Ability singlehandedly turned Serperior into a huge special attacking threat. It takes Leaf Storm's detrimental side effect and turns it into a free Nasty Plot with every use, making Serperior even more deadly with each and every use. If you're running a Serperior that has no stat-increasing moves and you're not running Contrary, you should get your head examined. You want this Ability on your Serperior. You need this Ability on your Serperior.

    You'll want an answer to most special walls. Serperior's amazing Contrary Leaf Storm can only take it so far in that regard. Unaware Clefable is also pretty scary, as it outright ignores your stat buffs.

    First off, if you see Serperior in Team Preview, be smart- don't lay down Sticky Web. Now, then, most Serperior are of the special attacking variety, so special walls like Chansey and Blissey are decent options. Might have to keep an eye out for Leech Seed, though. Oh, and Whimsicott and Ferrothorn resist absolutely everything Serperior can throw their way short of Hidden Power. Well, OK, Whimsicott doesn't resist Wring Out, but if that doesn't OHKO, it's not gonna be much use to you afterwards. Oh, and Glare will almost certainly only help Ferrothorn, powering up its Gyro Ball even more than it already would be.

    I like Serperior. I've liked it even before Contrary was a thing on it.

    Prediction for next week:
  16. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Uh... no. That's actually pretty much blatantly wrong. Hidden Power is actually VERY common on things outside of Technician users. Keldeo, Latios, Thundurus, Mega Diancie, Magnezone, and Mega Venusaur are all common examples of things that utilize Hidden Power for some much needed coverage, and you might notice that not a single one of them are packing Technician. If it doesn't appeal to you, that's one thing, but saying it only appeals to Technician users is just silly. If a Pokemon lacks coverage, they use Hidden Power to fill the gaps in that coverage, simple as that. And in Serperior's case, Hidden Power is perhaps its most valuable coverage move; without it, Serperior finds itself walled by Ferrothorn, Scizor, and basically all steel types. However, Hidden Power Fire, despite its low base power, allows Serperior to fry most steel types not named Heatran, especially if they try to switch into Leaf Storm, leaving its coverage moves at +2. Wring Out really is never seen because it does nothing to help Serperior's steel type woes. In fact, Hidden Power Fire is so common, that on the SubSeed sets, which can only utilize Leaf Storm and one coverage move, it's usually Hidden Power Fire that earns the spot, as it gives you the most bang for your buck in terms of coverage.
  17. Karxrida

    Karxrida Lost in the Waves

    Mamoswine has been OU viable for quite some time, I don't see the issue here.

    Better than AV Goodra, at any rate.

    Trying to kill Scarf Heatran is way too niche of a reason to run Mirror Coat, even for an OO. Besides, Assault Vest Serp isn't good anyway.

    Wring Out is a waste of a moveslot that should be used for Hidden Power (which is so not an OO when it lets Serp beat Steels). What does it hit that justifies dropping HP Fire?

    People need to stop trying to push for a Physical set; it's trash. Just because it has a good move like Coil doesn't mean it can use it.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2016
  18. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    Well, since Coil sets have come up more than a few times, why don't we go ahead and break down why they're bad?

    First up; relative power. Now, let's take target out of the equation for just a moment, so we can look at the power of the moves you're using.

    252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lickilicky: 200-238 (55.4 - 65.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
    252 Atk Life Orb Serperior Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lickilicky: 140-165 (38.7 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    (Lickilicky was chosen as an arbitrary target due to balanced defenses just to emphasize the relative power of the moves being used)

    So that's unboosted. But what happens when you boost?

    +2 252 SpA Life Orb Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Lickilicky: 399-472 (110.5 - 130.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
    +1 252 Atk Life Orb Serperior Leaf Blade vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Lickilicky: 208-246 (57.6 - 68.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    So to emphasize, your damage after boosting with Coil is comparable to your damage of the initial Leaf Storm, and once Contrary kicks in, you're blowing that damage out of the water. So in terms of raw damage, there's no contest.

    Next up, is how you're boosting. With Coil, you boost and then attack the next turn. A simple concept, for sure. But with Leaf Storm, you boost while you attack. Why is this significant? Because it means that things like Multiscale, Focus Sash, Substitute, and Sturdy can be broken while you boost. It's the reason Dragonite can't reliably switch into Serperior even without Stealth Rock up; even though it 4x resists Leaf Storm, it's enough to break Multiscale on non-leftovers sets, which enables a +2 Dragon Pulse to 1HKO with Multiscale down. It puts a lot more pressure on both offense and Stall since you're actively boosting while you attack them.

    Now, Coil does have one very minor benefit, and that's the defense boost. It can manage to protect Serperior from some would-be 1HKOs. For example:

    252 Atk Sharp Beak Talonflame Brave Bird vs. +1 0 HP / 0 Def Serperior: 240-284 (82.4 - 97.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

    But you're still being at least 2HKO'ed by most SE physical attacks, and you give up a significant amount of offensive presence to barely survive some KOs.

    In addition, there's the matter of coverage. The one mildly useful coverage move you get is Aqua Tail, which can hit Fire types hard. Iron Tail doesn't hit much that Serperior needs to hit, Dragon Tail's negative priority is problematic given Serperior relies on its high speed, Aerial Ace is pretty much only good for Heracross and maybe Chesnaught, and Knock Off is Knock Off. With no Fire move (even if it's just Hidden Power Fire), Ferrothorn and a few other steel types (most of whom have better physical defense so they have an even easier time dealing with Serperior if it uses Coil) become full stops to Serperior, more so than they would be on special sets. Plus, since one slot is spent on Coil, you still only have 3 moves for attacking; with Contrary, given your boosting move is an attacking move; you're able to fit in some extra goodies, such as Glare, which can cripple things like Tornadus-T, or things like Taunt, Leech Seed, and Substitute. Speaking of which!

    Many may say that a physical set could be used to lure in special walls and beat them. However, Serperior's low power kinda of hinders this. For instance, in the case of Chansey...

    +1 252 Atk Life Orb Serperior Leaf Blade vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 265-312 (41.2 - 48.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

    Even at +1, Physical sets are only 3HKOing Chansey. Not only that, but special walls aren't a foolproof way to deal with Serperior either, since if it gets enough boosts under its belt than Chansey isn't gonna be able to stand up to it; at +4 (i.e., after two Leaf Storms), Chansey can be 2HKO'ed about half the time. Plus, things like Taunt, Substitute, and Leech Seed can help special sets deal with Chansey as well. This isn't something like sticking Earthquake on Mega Venusaur to lure in Heatran; changing the entire set to a worse one to deal with some would-be counters is just not a good idea, since many of Serperior's counters deal with it through typing rather than special bulk.

    Serperior really only gained two things from Gen 6; Contrary and an improved Knock Off. Its physical sets with Coil were available to it in Gen 5, and they absolutely sucked then. Serperior was bottom of the barrel, relying on Dual Screens to have any sort of niche in NU. The addition of Contrary gave it a new lease on life by giving it the ability to actually be threatening, but it did nothing to boost the viability of physical sets. They were bad then, they're bad now.
  19. Buuz

    Buuz Smash Trainer

    I use this set on my Serperior.

    Serperior@Life Orb
    Timid nature
    252 Sp. Atk/252 Speed/4 HP
    ~HP Rock
    ~Dragon Pulse
    ~Leaf Storn

    Leaf Storm for easy stat boosts and massive damage. Glare for paralyzing stuff in case you get the chance. Dragon Pulse to hits a few Pokémon with neutral damage and to hit Dragon-types harder. HP Rock is to cover my Serperior's weaknesses. Since this covers Fire, Ice, Bug and Flying, Serperior's partner should be covering the Poison Pokémon.
  20. gars129

    gars129 Active Member

    PotW have rarely focused on Battle Spot Singles, instead being based on Smogon rules (6v6 OU), and the doubles set is usually focused on VGC2016 this year. Those are the most common metagames outside Japan, and since both metagames focus on legendary pokemon, Aegislash (who is uber on smogon singles) is somewhat of a niche pokemon, unlike back when it was OU or in VGC 2015 (now called BS Doubles by people) or remains in BS Singles.
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