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Community POTW #138

Discussion in 'POTW Collaboration' started by Serebii, Jun 12, 2016.

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  1. Serebii

    Serebii And, as if by magic, the webmaster appeared... Staff Member Admin

    Time for the next Pokémon of the Week and we have another whopper


    It's Dialga, the Steel/Dragon master of time. It has a great typing and is capable of so much


    Go nuts
  2. ericgall23

    ericgall23 Pokémon Fan

    Dialga the cover of Pokémon Diamond, is a very strong Pokémon, especially defensively. I believe it has only 2 weaknesses: Ground and Fighting. Whil its SP.Atk is the greatest, ATK is great too.

    Item you shoud give is, of course Admant Orb, coz it increases both Dragon and Steel type moves.

    Moveset (Special atk):

    - Roar of Time / Dragon Pulse/ Draco Meteor
    - Flash Cannon
    - Aura Sphere / Flamethrower / Ice Beam
    - Thunderbolt

    Since Dialga has many options as attacks, i list the special attakc it should have.
    - Roar of Time is its signature move, but it is like a Hyper Beam version Dragon, and the turn after can be dangerous. Dragon Pulse or Draco Meteor could be an alternative.
    - Flash Canon is its strongest special steel type move, and it has STAB and boost with Adamont Orb.
    The rest of the moves are options:
    - Aura Sphere: Never misses and counters Steel type Pokemon who resist both STAB.
    - Flamethrower: Also counter Sttell, and pairs well with Dragon type move, like with Reshiram, has aprently, almost no Pokémon resist that combination, like I learned in Reshiram POTW in 5th gen, but Ik now Fairy type exists, but Flash Canon handles them now, so...
    - Ice Beam: Can be used to counter ground type Pokémon, who can have a super effective hit on Dialga with a ground type move.
    - Thunderbolt: Pairs well with Ice Beam, has aparently it is a great combo. It counter's Azumarill too, since cox it is a Water Fairy, it resits both STAB (Immune to one of them even!) oh and Steel type hit neutrally, sorry.

    It also seems that the only way for Dialga to counters fighing types is Aerial Ace, our Hidden Power Psychic or Flying, but i'm not sure if it worth it, coz Dragon Type moves hits them neutrally, and since they have STAB and Adamant orb boost, i believe they are stronger.

    Counter for Dialga (I know so far):
    Azumarill (If Dialga doesnt have Thunderbolt, and can strike with Super power), Fighting types in general. it is hard to counter...
  3. Belgrim

    Belgrim Well-Known Member

    I do not recommend Roar of Time, it's basically a dragon-type hyper signature move for Dialga. Draco meteor can still be strong enough to put a dent in the opponent's defenses and a white herb can restore the special attack drop. But Roar of Time is just giving the opponent a turn to set up to get past Dialga's defenses.
  4. brad0788

    brad0788 Member

    Dialga can be used as a Stealth Rock setter in Ubers.

    -Stealth Rock
    -Draco Meteor
    -Fire Blast/ Flash Cannon
    -Toxic/ Roar
    Item: Leftovers
    EV/Nature: 244hp/252SpD/12Spe

    Stealth Rock is obviously mandatory and with Dialga's defenses/typing it can find many chances of setting it. Draco Meteor provides a great STAB attack for Dialga, OHKOing nearly everything weak to it with the exception of Latias and Giratina while also dealing great damage to neutral targets, making it very difficult to switch into when taking Dialga's possible coverage into consideration. Fire Blast hits the majority of Pokemon that resist Dragon in the tier for great damage, OHKOing Pokemon such as Mega Scizor, Ferrothorn, and Genesect. Flash Cannon is an alternative coverage move that can be used to take out Mega Diancie, Rock Arceus, and Tyranitar if needed. Toxic can pressure bulky Defog Arceus formes and prevent them from removing Stealth Rock while also catching Dialga switch-ins such as Ho-Oh and Lugia. Roar can also be used in place of Toxic to phaze potential setup sweepers that may try to set up on Dialga after it has used Draco Meteor, and Roar can help to prevent it from being trapped by Shadow Tag users.

    Sadly, Primal Groudon has somewhat overtook Dialga as a SR setter, not to mention can simply kill him outright.
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2016
  5. Swoobat

    Swoobat Well-Known Member

    Primal Dialga was so cool in Pokemon Mystery Dungeon. But sadly another Primal Pokémon, Primal Groudon, heavily hurts it in Ubers, as it is a great Stealth Rock setter. It is recommended to pair Dialga with Golduck, as Golduck can hit Groudon through Desolate Land thanks to its ability and OHKO it. xD On a more serious note, it's cool to give Dialga a Shuca Berry to defend it against the common Ground-type moves that are in every team.
  6. Karxrida

    Karxrida Lost in the Waves

    Shuca Berry should always be slashed for non-Choice sets. It lets Dialga check Mega Mence and offensive P-Don.

    White Herb is worthless because other items are way more useful, and Roar of Time is a trash move because it's a Hyper Beam clone.

    Azumarill is irrelevant in Ubers, not that it can even check Dialga since neutral Flash Cannon still hits it pretty hard.

    Thunderbolt, Ice Beam, and Aura Sphere hit nothing that STABs and Flamethower don't already take care of. Any Electric coverage (if you hate Ho-Oh that much) has to be Thunder, since STAB Draco hits harder than a super effective Thunderbolt.

    REMARCABLE Well-Known Member

    Dialga is a Pokemon that has two very different roles depending on the format it's playing in

    Singles Dialga usually are offensive and are SR setters, Dialga's decent bulk also can make use of Pressure but compared to Telepathy it should go without saying you MUST use Pressure, but what I am saying is it's not necessarily bad.

    VGC Dialga is a whole new ball game though, most of the time it focuses more on bulk but outputs excellent damage as well.
    It is also the only Dragon with a typing that neutralizes it's weakness to all 3 types that Dragon usually fears which is Fairy, Ice and Dragon itself.

    Steel also blesses the temporal Pokemon with the ability to hit what other dragons are scared of, which is Ice and Fairy with it's Steel attack or Dragon with it's Dragon attacks

    Dialga's movepool is also very nice, it gets nice moves like Aura Sphere, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt and Fire Blast, Draco Meteor for singles but Earth Power, Flamethrower and Dragon Pulse, not too much for that but enough to get the job done while leaving options for some strategy sets including moves like Trick Room and Substitute

    Not many legends in the VGC meta game like Dialga, however it's not completely invincible, while it can take 2 to 3 hits depending on the kinda investment in the VGC metagame, it can and will be wittled down

    Snarl Yveltal can both hit it for decent neutral damage and lower it's SpA stat, since even though it you'll never see a hyper offensive Dialga much in VGC, it still likes keeping it's base 150 SpA stat unsoiled.

    Unboosted Xerneas can hurt Dialga a bit but Dialga can threaten it more, until it's boosted in which Moonblast OHKOs but you can at least get 2HKOd by Dazzling Gleam.

    P-Groudon doesn't appreciate Dialga targeting it's flawed SpD, Earth Power is pretty much what Primal Groudon fears most however, but Dialga is also very scared of Precipice Blades, but intimidate Groudon enough, outspeed it and take advantage of it's low special defense, Dialga will be alright, it does have really good bulk after all.

    P-Kyogre isn't so much of a threat as it is a stalemate to Dialga, Dialga can't chip away at P-Kyogre like it can P-Groudon due to a much higher special defense stat being dealt with here while at the same time P-Kyogre does not have anything to hit Dialga hard enough to make it less than a 3HKO.

    Salamence and Rayquaza: Dialga is the best matchup to these two titans, there is nothing they can do to take Dialga out before Dialga can take them out
  8. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 VGC Master

    The one problem with the Xerneas matchup is that it typically outspeeds Dialga, meaning it gets to +2 in both special stats (because who doesn't run Geomancy?), making Flash Cannon is a 2HKO at best, while Moonblast OHKOs back. There's ways around it, but it's a big reason why Dialga isn't seen as much.

    Also, Groudon and Dialga are in the same speed tier, so it will only outspeed with proper investment in the right situation.

    If you're running this in VGC, don't run Stealth Rock (or Toxic), it's a waste of a turn and you can take too much damage back. Like others have already said, Roar of Time is HORRIBLE. Even more so in a format where your opponent has 2 Pokemon on the field. Roar actually isn't bad, but not for the reason you run it. Instead, it can stop non-Prankster Trick Room users and make Geomancy Xerneas waste its item.
  9. Ascended Dialga

    Ascended Dialga Supportive Dragon

    ;483; Yay, the POTW is me!!!~ ;483;

    I think it's good to use me as a Trick Room setter. The speed-swapping effect of Trick Room happens to reflect my role as the god of time quite nicely. This neat little set of mine is best off with no EV investment in speed, obviously. My preferred format is Doubles/Multi/VGC, so this set has that in mind.

    Me @ Shuca Berry
    - Protect
    - Draco Meteor/Roar of Time
    - Flash Cannon
    - Trick Room
    EVs: 252 HP/ 252 SpAttack/ 4 SpDefense
    Quiet Nature
    Ability: Pressure

    Now obviously, Draco Meteor is the better choice from a competitive standpoint, but I like using Roar of Time just for flavor's sake. With my tail blades extended and spread wide, my chest diamond aglow, and my head held high, I unleash the mighty RAAAWWWRRR!!! It's even more awesome if I manage to win with it (which I have done before). To be honest, I didn't have a good held item in mind at first other than the Adamant Orb, but I saw some other people above recommend the Shuca Berry. So I went with that. If only I had easier access to Telepathy...

    I hope that if/when Diamond and Pearl get remade, my spatial sister and I get new forms, kinda like my land and sea buddies from Hoenn. We should get brand-new abilities that better reflect our abilities to control time and space. Maybe mine could set up an automatic Trick Room upon entry and Palkia's could...I dunno, reverse the type match-ups? The Adamant and Lustrous Orbs could be the keys to our transformations.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  10. KillerDraco

    KillerDraco The Enforcer Staff Member Super Mod

    ...Good lord.

    Alright, henceforth, let it be established that Roar of Time is bad, and completely unviable on any set, regardless of where it's used. The number of situations where Roar of Time could have some marginal use are so scarce that it's not even worth it. The power is not worth it when you consider that the recharge turn thereafter leaves you completely at the mercy of your opponent. It's a free setup turn, a free turn to switch to a more ideal matchup, or a free turn to KO Dialga. In addition, it's outdamaged across two turns by Dragon Pulse and Draco Meteor. It's just... not a good attack, at all, especially since Diagla has so many better options.

    So can we collectively agree to stop listing it in sets? Yes, it's a cool novelty to have a signature move, but it's not a good attack... unless you're talking about Pokemon Rumble World. Which we're not.
  11. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    The best thing about Dialga is that the Temporal Pokemon is the same colour as The Doctor's TARDIS. Now on to the competitive stuff.

    One of the biggest problems Dialga has is speed and a lack of STAB coverage. Very few pokemon in ubers are actually weak to steel and there are plenty of other pokemon that can drop dracos. So Dialga is best in singles using moves like roar and stealth rock while still posing some offensive threat as a sweeper. However it can still get some surprising KOs in with a choice scarf and take out other dragons quickly. Even if Dialga can't normally get many OHKOs it can get surprising and crucial OHKOs and 2HKOs if you give it a scarf.

    TARDIS Blue!
    (ubers singles)
    Dialga @ Choice Scarf
    Ability: Pressure
    EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
    Modest Nature
    IVs: 0 Atk
    - Draco Meteor
    - Thunder/Blizzard
    - Fire Blast
    - Flash Cannon

    A scarfed Draco meteor is great for most ubers dragons, it can surprise a rayquaza or a mega salamence hoping to exploit Dialga's slow speed. Flash cannon is for Mega Diancies hoping to magic bounce stealth rocks, mega mawile and Xerneas. Fire blast hits most steel types that resist both dragon and steel hard. Thunder is usually preferable as it hits kyogre and ho-oh but blizzard is better for Lando and shaymin-sky. Max speed EVs are needed to speedtie with scarf modest kyogre and zekrom, this dialga is also enough to outspeed jolly Deoxys-A or any Mewtwos withous boosted speed. Modest nature helps maximise your chance to get 2HKOs against things like Ho-Oh with thunder or mega mawile with flash cannon.

    Othe Options:
    Metal Burst: Honestly I'm surprised I never see this over flash cannon in VGC. It does a ton of damage to primal groudon if used at the right moment, and groudon carries spread moves so its lkely to get a metal burst off on a precipice blades or lava plume.
    Power Gem: Does up to around 80% to many bulky ho-ohs and doesn't miss like thunder
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2016
  12. Karxrida

    Karxrida Lost in the Waves

    Run Thunder. Ho-Oh is a way more important target than Lando-T and Skymin, plus both of those die to Draco (or two Flash Cannons).

    If you're going to slash anything with Thunder, it should be Sleep Talk so Dialga can be Dark Void fodder.
  13. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 VGC Master

    Small detail, but if you're playing VGC and want Telepathy on Dialga, you're stuck with Modest nature due to the event.

    Lava Plume isn't a thing in VGC, but this is actually an interesting point.
    But...there's this: 252+ Atk Primal Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Dialga: 186-218 (89.8 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO
    and this: 252+ SpA Primal Groudon Earth Power vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 188-224 (90.8 - 108.2%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO
    and this lol: +2 252 SpA Fairy Aura Xerneas Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Dialga: 219-258 (105.7 - 124.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO

    It's just too risky to waste a moveslot on it, and Dialga can easily be double targeted since over half don't run Protect on Battle Spot
  14. Aduro

    Aduro Mt.BtlMaster

    I see your point, Metal burst is kinda of a risky for VGC, and Dialga is too slow to do much even after the first big hit. Just wondering though, does that precipice blades calc include the 25% drop from using spread moves in doubles?
  15. EKZ1505

    EKZ1505 VGC Master

    Yep! It's the default setting on Nugget Bridge's damage calculator: http://nuggetbridge.com/damagecalc/
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